homeschooling

[Pensive]

Thank you kindly.

My Mom felt the same way a year or so ago and always tried to push me to go talk to other girls with different interests. I tried and it just didn't work. In order for us to click, I had to change. That didn't sound appealing, but for the sake of fitting in I tried. Joining Girl Scouts, I tried to laugh and giggle without having something to laugh at. I tried to be knowledgeable about fashion. And still, whenever I said something there would be an embarrassed silence. It wasn't the girls fault that I didn't fit in; they did their best to make me feel comfortable. But it just didn't work. I left and went back to my normal self and didn't burden them with a wallflower.

I've got tons more to say but I've got to go to class. Talk to you later.

Oh, andave-ya, you don't have to be what you are not or there is no need to pretend. Just be the way you are. I am sure people would accept you that way. Just be careful while critisizing someone. Girls of fourteen and fifteen don't usually like negative comments on their make-up.

I myself don't approve of a few things my classmates do (like make-up) but that's their life. There are good things in them as well which puts their penchant for make-up aside.

[Virgil]

Okay, the image you give of pubic schools doesn't seem very pleasant, but here, the problem lies with "schools". If only good conditions would be provided there, things would be better. Schooling in an institution should be made compulsary because it makes sure that a child is getting education. .

I believe there are tests that the kids have to pass that are independent of their schooling. Yes if only the schools were perfect. Some are good and some aren't. That's why the parent has to make a decision.

You also said what if the parent doesn't know how to write their name. I think this only works with parents who are college educated. Like I said, a lot of the home schoolers that I've known have moms that are teachers.

I can understand how the conditions in your country might not make this desirable. Actually if one were in a very good public school system here, then it would not be desirable here too. But schools vary, teachers vary, like all human beings. A parent has to assess.

[juketay]

Okay, the image you give of pubic schools doesn't seem very pleasant, but here, the problem lies with "schools". If only good conditions would be provided there, things would be better. Schooling in an institution should be made compulsary because it makes sure that a child is getting education. I don't know whether you will ever understand it or not, but with the culture like that in my country, what's necessary is education and here the concept of homeschooling means the child wouldn't be taught much about Geography, Physics, Chemistry, Biology and Maths (in most cases). Wouldn't it be better if the Government makes this necessary for children to go to schools? Many children in my country don't have telivisions, newspapers, computers, and don't have proper access to books. On the other hand, if they go to a public school, they have a chance of getting a scholarship, and books for free if they give good result. And remember the geography and history of your school is not easy to learn without having books/proper guidance.

Just for clarification, there is a big difference between "homeschooling" and "unschooling"
Homeschooling in the US (in my state) require 'actual learning' that they check on. And if the parents don't wan't to report directy to the state, then they can join an umbrella group.

[andave_ya]

I'm back.

I'm not sure where I'm heading to, but maybe what I want to say is that school doesn't forbid you to be yourself and get bored of Johnny Depp (mmmm Johnny Depp ) if you're willing to fight for that.

Why do I have to fight for it? Do I not have the right to be myself without any opposition from people who don't like who I am? As a homeschooler I don't have to fight for it because people will recognize that individuality is good.

This way you have it more comfortable, but maybe you're not developing the skills to defend your personality from peer pressure etc

No offense, but what exactly am I doing now? offending my personality?
Furthermore, I'm still here defending what I agree with to the best of my ability. You want me to change my views on homeschooling. Is this not considered peer pressure?

And furthermore, you are yourselves a product of your schooling. Most if not all the people posting from outside the USA have never heard of homeschooling but have already decided that it is unhealthy without even looking at the benefits of it.

I know what I believe in but I'll listen to what you have to say.

Again I say this not to offend but to prove my point. It seems to me that we're just going through the same loopholes -socialization and teaching- and I'm just saying the same thing over again.

Ehy, can I ask you, do you study a foreign language in your programme? How is language learning dealt with in general in homeschooling, assuming not all parents are fluent in another language?

Yes, I'm sorry, I forgot to mention it. My mother teaches me and my sister Arabic because we hail from the Middle East. Here in the States, a foreign language isn't required until high school, so if the parents don't know a language the student can take college courses, online courses....we're not just limited to the curriculum.

Well I personally prefer to be prepared for the worst Which is, for me, the bubble we are talking about, not just a social bubble which, as you all say and I guess I can agree, is not always the case. But a bubble of protection from reality.

What's the difference? I'm not saying that to be flippant; I'm not quite sure what you mean.

History and faith are two different things. Anyway this is another discussion... As for what is taught at school, couldn't for example you go to school and listen to what is told there, and be religious at home?

There is a verse in the Bible that says that you cannot serve two masters. For me to believe in evolution during schooldays and creationism during the weekend is hypocritical. I can't do both because I can't be true to both. They are both contradictory.

I have the opposite idea, since I first heard of this concept I imagined homeschoolers as bookworms that spend all their time studying and being intellectual instead of doing things appropriate for their age... like throwing in the occasional swearing to feel 'adult' and being generally silly.

If one acts like an adult and thinks like an adult and does the same actions as an adult he doesn't have to swear to "feel" adult.
Being silly with a cause is a far cry from being silly with no reason at all. Even I like some kinds of silliness. I like the silliness of Peter Pan and the Wizard of Oz because it's ok for them to be silly. However I do not think I need to laugh when someone tries(and doesn't succeed) in being witty.

And now you will say that children can have their parents teaching them but what should they do if their parents don't even know how to write down their names? And this is the condition in most of the developing countries. There are even some parents who think "education" would take their children nowhere. If only government set school compulsary, parents will have to send their children to schools.

In this circumstance my opinion must and does change. Education is vital to well-being no matter what. In a setting like that, however, there would be no distinctions between people; one would be able to relate because they would all be in the same boat.

Who says you have to have long friendly conversations with them? You just have to learn to live with them, bear the sight of them without resenting them.

But you want me to socialize and there's no one else my age that I know personally that is engaging to me. That person doesn't have to agree with me but just like to talk about different stuff. I don't mind if people talk to me about crushes for a short while; that I can handle and am glad to be a dumping ground for. But a day or two is all that I can give.

Wouldn't it be easier for you to learn with a group of students who "have interest in studies"?

Why? I don't follow.

Weren't you yourself critisizing the girls you wear make-up? If you have a right to critisize, then they do have it as well.

I don't criticize those girls. My Mom wears makeup. It's the idea of eight-year-olds wanting to grow up too fast. Not wanting to believe in fairies and Peter Pan until they are too old to. Understated makeup is fine. Girls with neon pink hair(is that considered makeup?) and vibrant blue eyeliner is eye-catching.

I am sorry for that, didn't know public schools at your place were like that. In my area, they are vice-versa as a matter of fact.

They are. That's the difference between the UK and the US. (I'm assurming you live in the UK) If the difference in 30s literature is credible, the UK is a rather classy place.

Good for you. Being an idealist can be good, and can't be other times. You don't often come across good people in life: and afterwards you have to cope with people swearing themselves blue and doing all sorts of unpleasant stuff. I wouldn't like to go deep into that argument, for the sake of being on the topic. But even if you disagree with me here, you might agree that every child can't afford these road trips, newspapers and tv, and that's why I think schooling should be made compulsary.

There are unpleasant people everywhere, regardless of anything. Especially if someone at the store asks if you shouldn't be in school. they're practically ready to pummel my Mom when she answers we homeschool.

Oh, andave-ya, you don't have to be what you are not or there is no need to pretend. Just be the way you are. I am sure people would accept you that way.

I don't pretend. I learned my lesson. People do accept me, just not everyone which ties in all over again to the socialization aspect. I do socialize, but I prefer not to be with people who don't want to be with me.


I think, in the end, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this topic. If you won't be persuaded you won't.

Again, I don't mean to offend anyone.

[Koa]

One thing that was clear to me from the start is that no one here is trying to make the other side change their opinions... you asked for opinions, we are giving them - I will never agree with you and I'm conscious you'll never agree with me and I don't care, but both now know more about the other side - you have the view of European and Asian people here, to which the idea of homeschooling is totally foreign. This is the kind of issue where people stick to their idea and their values, and discussion is only a gym for ideas.

And Pensy is not from the UK, unless you consider the UK a developing country, as she defined her country...

Why do I have to fight for it? Do I not have the right to be myself without any opposition from people who don't like who I am? As a homeschooler I don't have to fight for it because people will recognize that individuality is good.

See, to me this is like hiding. There are three ways: assimilate, stand in front of other people but remain yourself, or hiding because you can't face to be different in the presence of other people, and are only proud to be different in your shelter. But this is getting far from homeschooling per se.

No offense, but what exactly am I doing now? offending my personality?
Furthermore, I'm still here defending what I agree with to the best of my ability. You want me to change my views on homeschooling. Is this not considered peer pressure?

Never tried to change them, I'm just stating mine. Peer pressure is something else, and I've always thought the 'peer' was to be taken literally, and since we don't have the same background, this is not peer But I might be wrong on that and I'm splitting hair just for the sake of it.

And furthermore, you are yourselves a product of your schooling. Most if not all the people posting from outside the USA have never heard of homeschooling but have already decided that it is unhealthy without even looking at the benefits of it.

I don't see too many benefits, that's just it.

I know what I believe in but I'll listen to what you have to say.

Do you want me to buy you a halo now?

Again I say this not to offend but to prove my point. It seems to me that we're just going through the same loopholes -socialization and teaching- and I'm just saying the same thing over again.

Welcome to the world of discussions...

Yes, I'm sorry, I forgot to mention it. My mother teaches me and my sister Arabic because we hail from the Middle East. Here in the States, a foreign language isn't required until high school, so if the parents don't know a language the student can take college courses, online courses....we're not just limited to the curriculum.

What's the difference? I'm not saying that to be flippant; I'm not quite sure what you mean.

Let me try to explain... what I meant is, people might have said to you that homeschooling is like being kept in a 'bubble', that is apart from socialisation - that is not even my biggest concern, because to me the 'bubble' it makes is creating an alternative reality, living in a shelter where everything is homely and perfect and made for you and cosy like your family - and that can't last unless you live all your life in this shelter, which seems hardly possible as one day you'll have to have a job and face all the crap of life, which might seem even harder if you're not prepared for it (of course this is highly simplified and generalised, but it's a hypotetic point).
The socialisation aspect doesn't have to be a positive one. To me a child/young person has to be put in a social situation whether he/she likes it or not, in order to learn how to live in a community, with all the aspects you might not like of it. It's the community aspect, not the "let's all be friend and like the same make-up" aspect.

There is a verse in the Bible that says that you cannot serve two masters. For me to believe in evolution during schooldays and creationism during the weekend is hypocritical. I can't do both because I can't be true to both. They are both contradictory.

No one says you have to believe in evolution... no one says you have to believe in everything they tell you at school... Maybe the fact that education for you identifies with your family, makes you think you have to identify with school...

If one acts like an adult and thinks like an adult and does the same actions as an adult he doesn't have to swear to "feel" adult.
Being silly with a cause is a far cry from being silly with no reason at all. Even I like some kinds of silliness. I like the silliness of Peter Pan and the Wizard of Oz because it's ok for them to be silly. However I do not think I need to laugh when someone tries(and doesn't succeed) in being witty.

Yes, but that's all part of living in the real world, which includes things you don't approve...

They are. That's the difference between the UK and the US. (I'm assurming you live in the UK) If the difference in 30s literature is credible, the UK is a rather classy place.

The UK is not what you think... it's not that classy really, not that perfect as it was in my dream. Not that I have huge complaints about it besides one or two, but unfortunately most visitors do find it different from what they thought...

I don't pretend. I learned my lesson. People do accept me, just not everyone which ties in all over again to the socialization aspect. I do socialize, but I prefer not to be with people who don't want to be with me.

The socialisation thing is a bit misleading. I went to school, I had maybe 5 friends to relate with. It doesn't mean that school makes you a social being (I became vaguely sociable only in my 20s), and not even that it makes you all the same (unless you want to be the same as all them), just that we cannot imagine life without that kind of experience, with all its pros and cons.

[Koa]

Do you necessarily have to, if English is your first language ?

That's exactly why I like to provoke on this issue

And I think it comes down to we in the US don't trust and want to rely on the government for things. It sucks away our freedom. We feel that when we can do it ourselves, we pefer to.

That comes as a surprise to me... from outside the impression is that you do tend to trust your government to a certain extent - not everybody of course and not fanatically, but from where I stand that's the impression, compared to a lot of countries in Europe and especially with Italy, where we only think that a government is there to take advantage of people (what can you expect from a country that had like 62 governments in 61 years of republic )

[Virgil]

That comes as a surprise to me... from outside the impression is that you do tend to trust your government to a certain extent - not everybody of course and not fanatically, but from where I stand that's the impression, compared to a lot of countries in Europe and especially with Italy, where we only think that a government is there to take advantage of people (what can you expect from a country that had like 62 governments in 61 years of republic )

Actually that's true. We are not as cynical about government, but I think we feel that it can't run things very well, so we're better off doing it ourselves when possible.

[juketay]

One thing that was clear to me from the start is that no one here is trying to make the other side change their opinions... you asked for opinions, we are giving them - I will never agree with you and I'm conscious you'll never agree with me and I don't care, but both now know more about the other side - you have the view of European and Asian people here, to which the idea of homeschooling is totally foreign. This is the kind of issue where people stick to their idea and their values, and discussion is only a gym for ideas.

You are right. The purpose of this "argumentation" is not to convince the other side but to convince the people who will read this thread.

[andave_ya]

Do you want me to buy you a halo now?

I'm sorry, that was self-righteous of me to say. I got a little too carried away...

I don't see too many benefits, that's just it.

based on what?

The rest of the stuff in your post, Koa, I've already addressed in previous posts. No offense but I've written myself out today.

[Laindessiel]

A wider-scoped discussion on homeschooling... I'm learning a lot.

[Koa]

based on what?

on what I said so far perhaps?

[andave_ya]

which I've already answered. Sorry Koa, this isn't going anywhere.

[Koa]

Never thought it would go anywhere, I just answered to your hint by underlining that, if you hadn't noticed, that was what I had to say...
Some people take themselves too seriously.

[Scheherazade]

To All> This thread was started to discuss pros and cons of home schooling. If you don't like having your views challenged or questioned, you might like to refrain from posting as by expressing your views here, you readily agree that there will be people disagreeing with you as well as those who agree.

Resorting to ad hominem arguments will do little to move the discussion forward.

[Domer121]

Thanks Scheherazade..