Atheists....

[Dante Wodehouse]

Whoa - what's all this and where did it come from? Did you actually want a response to this post? I'm not even sure what it's trying to say.

I don't know how to do the quote boxes (please be so kind as to tell me). I was responding to a previous post by Wintermute.

[Logos]

Dante hit the icon which appears near the bottom right corner of the person's post that you want to quote. The text shows automatically in your reply. (or you can delete the lines out that you aren't addressing, just make sure the [quote] boxes are still at the beginning and end of it) Using the quote function makes it *much* easier and clearer for everyone to know who you're posting to

[Redzeppelin]

This is why some people are atheists. They question their beliefs for a while and extremists end up shoving the Bible down their throats and telling them that they will go to Hell if they do not believe in God.

Well, if hell's for real, and as bad as its described, do you blame people for getting a bit insistent that you really might want to avoid it? That aside, yes: some believers cross the line - but all "beliefs" have zealots (including atheists).

God told us to love everyone. And it should end right there.

What should end right where?

[Dante Wodehouse]

Dante hit the icon which appears near the bottom right corner of the person's post that you want to quote. The text shows automatically in your reply. (or you can delete the lines out that you aren't addressing, just make sure the quote boxes are still at the beginning and end of it) Using the quote function makes it *much* easier and clearer for everyone to know who you're posting to

Thank you.

[Bookworm4Him]

One thing people tend to either don't know or deliberatly forget, is that Adolf Hitler was quite a devout Christian. One of the many theories that abound about why he did what he did to the Jews is because of a mis-construed interpritation of the Christian bible. Taking this view, WW2 was as relgious as it was anything else. Is that post-Renaissance enough for you?

Now, this is my first post here on these boards, and this is the first thread I have read, and went out of my way to join up so I can comment on it. Mind you, I have not read every single 600 odd replies.

I am in the bundle of people are classified as athiest. I find that Athiest is a name used for these people because the names like "Christian" or "Hindu" Or "Jew" or what ever don't convieniantly fit. Alot of Athiests have Faith, it is that they do not have Religion.

Beleif and Faith are very powerful things. Since it is very rare for a person to follow more than one religion at a time, this can make an interesting condry. Relgion "A" beleive that followers of Religion "B" will go to hell for not following Relgion "A". The opposite is also can be said. Since followers of both religions truely beleive the others will go to hell, then everyone will, because of that beleif.

If you think that is a load of Rubbish, that logic more opr less follows all the arguements I have ever been given that God exists.

When your god starts hating the same people you do, you know your god is made up.

Congrats on joining the forum! I look forward to sparring minds with you. I also just joined to comment on this subject, and am now going to comment on your post. Here goes...
First off, I don't believe for one second that Adolf Hitler was a Christian, or at least a true Christian, one who means it, not just claims it. (We talked about this subject a few pages ago. You might want to read it to understand our terms.) During the time of Shakespeare, everyone in the culture was termed a "Christian", as in not a Jew or a muslim, not as in followers of Christ. Also at the time, Jews were picked on, beaten, stolen from, tortured, and anything else imaginable, and no one was punished for it. In Rome, Nero hunted down and killed the Christians, b/c he needed some to accuse of burning Rome.
Someone is always picking on someone else. The Jews were chosen as the lesser party for Hitler's mad rage. No way he was even near a Christian, more like demon possessed.
2) You want an arguement on whether God exists, go to pg 36 and 37 (I think) and read that. Then we'll talk. And as to God hating everyone, do you think that if God really did hate everyone, anyone would be alive? think about that. I'm sure you will respond.

[Wandering_Child]

Well, if hell's for real, and as bad as its described, do you blame people for getting a bit insistent that you really might want to avoid it? That aside, yes: some believers cross the line - but all "beliefs" have zealots (including atheists).



What should end right where?

There are always going to be some people who will never listen to what you have to say. I find it extremely irritating when some people insist on something that I don't agree with - even after I have told them thousands of times and they are still persistant. It annoys me greatly. I can't speak for everyone, but I would think that most people would agree with me.

Also, I don't want to turn this into a Christian thread, but I do not believe Hell is a real place. We believe it is a state of being. That said, I am almost finished.

About the second part: Forgive me. I did not expand - I do know some Christians who think it horrific that some people do not believe in a higher being. They shun them as if they had some dangerous disease. It is quite sickening and quite sad, seeing as these people profess themselves to be disciples of Christ, whose great commandment was to love everyone.

[Redzeppelin]

There are always going to be some people who will never listen to what you have to say. I find it extremely irritating when some people insist on something that I don't agree with - even after I have told them thousands of times and they are still persistant. It annoys me greatly. I can't speak for everyone, but I would think that most people would agree with me.

Also, I don't want to turn this into a Christian thread, but I do not believe Hell is a real place. We believe it is a state of being. That said, I am almost finished..

As if that makes it any less of a torment.

About the second part: Forgive me. I did not expand - I do know some Christians who think it horrific that some people do not believe in a higher being. They shun them as if they had some dangerous disease. It is quite sickening and quite sad, seeing as these people profess themselves to be disciples of Christ, whose great commandment was to love everyone.

OK - so you've had some bad experiences with believers. I'm sorry that happened. Being an idiot is not confined to non-believers: Christians are quite capable of the same.

As well, I'm not totally sure how your posting was supposed to contribute to the discussion at hand?

[Bookworm4Him]

I find it interesting, a little sad, and in some instances scary. But not funny.

The folks that are slamming creationists can not really come up with an alternate theory of what started it all.

And the science bashers have almost certainly never had the opportunity to investigate what science really is all about. My sister is a professor of neurobiology and I take great offence at the notion that she is somehow a liberal na'er-do-well who's primary goal is to debunk someone's religion. She goes into the lab before dawn, and usually doesn't return home until after 9pm. She works very hard to understand the human brain an how in functions in order to better our lot--for very little monetary compensation. You folks that summarily dismiss scientists as mean-spirited, close minded, ignorant, whatevers...need to examine a mirror. No scientist that I know of has ever claimed to know with certainty what is going on in the universe. They theorize, examine, then re-theorize.

I not trying to slam you or your sister, I'm taking what I have learned about the universe, examining the evidence, and proving what I have found to be true. Congratulations to your sister. She is trying to protect people's lives, I'm trying to protect their eternity. Science is not mean-spirited, close-minded, and ignorant, it is very useful in today's world. It has its place. But when people make it their god, and try to prove that life came from atoms that were never there, that wammed into each other, and made a perfect world full of monkeys that over a gagillion of years turned into people...maybe some are a little close-minded.

[Wandering_Child]

As well, I'm not totally sure how your posting was supposed to contribute to the discussion at hand?

Ah, and that's why I debated whether I should post here or not...I really thought I could have a small say in something without being bombarded and/or criticized. *shrugs* Religion is a picky, aggressive topic on any site you go to.

Anyways, I take my leave. Know that I hold you all in the highest esteem - Christian and Atheist alike.

*bows respectfully out of thread*

[Bandiceet]

Thank you all for your welcome. I am sorry I have not had the chance to respond to those replying to my post. Since I posted that, I have gone to work and had a good nights sleep. (Yay for time zones!)

I have plenty else to ponderize over, but I am not sure a thread about Athiesim is the correct one to say it all, though it relevant to the generalised topic of what we are discussing. (I.E. Beleif systems and Religions.)

I find it difficult to put myself in any real pigeon hole on this due to the simple fact that neither side has offered me enough proof one way or the other. Basically every one can take what ever they want and put a small spin on the matter and claim that it is the proof that they are right and everyone else is wrong.

It also comes down to what you take out of something. You may find that many atheists follow the same principles as christianity, beleive that Jesus was a son of a carpenter and enjoyed a spot of fishing occasionally, but what they have difficulty with is taking that leap of faith that is required to beleive the water-into-wine, son-of-god, walking-on-water part of it all.

"Scientists have proof with out certainty, while Christians have certainty with out proof" - For the life of me I can not remember who said that, but it sums alot up quite neatly.

[hyperborean]

"Scientists have proof with out certainty, while Christians have certainty with out proof" - For the life of me I can not remember who said that, but it sums alot up quite neatly.

Indeed it does.

[SFG75]

This has been a very worthwhile topic and the ensuing discussion says a lot about the quality members that we have here at the forum. While I don't post much, I do enjoy reading the thoughts of others.

Now what exactly does an atheist believe?? What is the definition you would give to describe an atheist?

Richard Dawkins has stated that atheists are like cats, they are finnicky and don't like to follow orders, which is why they aren't as *organized* in the way that a lot of groups are. While there are atheist/humanist groups out there, their numbers are paltry compared to the actual number of atheists/humanists that are out there. They follow their own will and chafe at being subservient to others, or whatever form of anti-hierarchy thinking they have. In other words, they are a rather contrarian lot. I can only speak in regards to my own experience and I'll say this-to me, an atheist *believes* in rationalism, that is, approaching every situation in life with considerable thought and serious attention. This does not mean that an atheist is perfect. This carries a big responsibility as I've changed more than a few beliefs(political and otherwise) as I've examined things I didn't want to admit, but had to after considerable deliberation. An atheist is rational and always willing to examine the evidence. They know that living by a set of ethical principles is the right thing to do and that the greatest measure of one's life, is to dedicate one's life to something beyond the self. I will live forever through my children, through my life's work in the public sector, as well as through my desire to make this life around me better through civic participation.

[Redzeppelin]

they are finnicky and don't like to follow orders... They follow their own will and chafe at being subservient to others, or whatever form of anti-hierarchy thinking they have. In other words, they are a rather contrarian lot...rational and always willing to examine the evidence. They know that living by a set of ethical principles is the right thing to do and that the greatest measure of one's life, is to dedicate one's life to something beyond the self.

Well stated. I'm curious: do you think this list of qualities is unique to atheists only, or can Christians claim the same qualities? I ask this because many atheists seem to be under the (mistaken) impression that Christians are not critical thinkers, that we "blindly" follow "what we've been taught" and that we need to "think for ourselves." Frankly, I think that's tired, stereotyping of Christians; it's almost as if many atheists want to brand rejection of established institutions, or "nonconformity" or whatever as their badge - but can't Christians claim the same qualites in different ways?

[hyperborean]

There are many Christian intellectuals and thinkers like you zeppelin, but many are "Deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow" -Tool (opiate)

[Redzeppelin]

There are many Christian intellectuals and thinkers like you zeppelin, but many are "Deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow" -Tool (opiate)

OK - I won't deny that: there are plenty of ignorant Christians out there, and I have annoyed a few of them myself.

(Thank you for the compliment - I'll take it as such even if it wasn't meant that way )