Atheists....

[Matrim Cuathon]

When someone posts an opinion and you intend to comment on it please read it carefully and do not extract the meaning you like out of it.
The point i wanted to make was in the last few lines and it is to that effect:

If people on earth have education and do not live miserably as they do in certain parts of the earth, if countries stop invading other countries and stop meddling in their internal affairs, then religions won't be a weapon for leaders to use in order to achieve their goal. In fact i believe that there won't be any use of religions anymore. And even if there is (for many people have the need to believe in a benevolent force and can't simply cope with the idea that their pressence on earth is limited) we live in free countries so let them have it. I personally respect the choice of others to believe. And you know, it is nice since it seems that the act of believing gives strength to an individual.

you know i wasnt responding to yuo right? with that comment?

[manolia]

Ok sorry then..it sounded like that

[hyperborean]

There is no solid basis for such a supposition. That is simply a tactic to smear Christianity in a way that is so blatantly unfair and unprovable as to be absurd in its very conception.

Organized religion in general is the corruption of the world. happy now?

[Redzeppelin]

Organized religion in general is the corruption of the world. happy now?

I will be once you provide some basis for this claim. Otherwise, it is simply your opinion and carries as much weight as unsupported opinion does.

[hyperborean]

Wars that have been occurring since ancient times wouldn't be considered proof?

[Redzeppelin]

Wars that have been occurring since ancient times wouldn't be considered proof?

Please be as so kind to identify the particular wars and how Christianity played an instigating role is said conflicts. Otherwise I'm going to be tempted to say that your statement is little more than one of the over-used stereotypes launched at Christians. Remember: the Crusades have already been dealt with, so they are no longer a valid choice. Something post-Renaissance would be nice.

[watkinsguy]

Please be as so kind to identify the particular wars and how Christianity played an instigating role is said conflicts. Otherwise I'm going to be tempted to say that your statement is little more than one of the over-used stereotypes launched at Christians. Remember: the Crusades have already been dealt with, so they are no longer a valid choice. Something post-Renaissance would be nice.

lol I think what he is getting at Red, is that organized religion in general has contributed to wars in the past. This is true, but not a very valid point when considering how easy wars are started. Consider this:

The Football War in 1969 between Honduras and El Salvador was sparked by a World Cup soccer match between the two countries.

Does this mean that soccer is corrupt since it has started a war? In my honest opinion, no it doesn't. To say that something besides sinful pride is the reason for all wars, is not only ridiculous, but also very ignorant.

[Dante Wodehouse]

Howdy , now you're seeing my point--why would the creator of a world [universe] not just do it right in the first place? Go straight to the end game?

It knows what the final outcome of the universe will be, no? Who will make it to the show, and who won't, correct? So why not just make it so? Why make it so convoluted--"worship me and my glory for 75 years or so, then, if you accept that I sent my son to get nailed to a cross you'll live for infinity in some nebulous...something...If you don't, well, I'm gonna fry you for infinity. Oh, and by the way, for those 75 years...make sure you give 10% of everything you own to the church so they can enhance my glory even more."

Seems just a little contrived and convenient to me. But as always, I could be wrong

I prefer to take the C.S. Lewis (or perhaps I have just come up with this theory while reading the Screwtape Letters and therefore attribute it to him) philosophy, that is, that God was tired of creating things that in their fiber couldn't disobey him without knowingly ending up in Lucifer's new colony. He wanted something that chose his path as oppose to having no other paths to choose. I trust that he came up with the universe pattern that grants a majority of people heaven, but I can't really know. As regards tithing, that is just to keep the church running. Without it, new churches couldn't have been built, nor pastors given a livable salary. It has been overdone by the church, but it is necessary to keep things running.

[Redzeppelin]

lol I think what he is getting at Red, is that organized religion in general has contributed to wars in the past.

Agreed. But since the contention behind the "wars" argument is that Christianity has "corrupted" the world implies to me that Christianity has had a more than passing influence in the wars of this world. Highly debatable. Nice example you gave, by the way.

[watkinsguy]

Howdy , now you're seeing my point--why would the creator of a world [universe] not just do it right in the first place? Go straight to the end game?

It knows what the final outcome of the universe will be, no? Who will make it to the show, and who won't, correct? So why not just make it so? Why make it so convoluted--"worship me and my glory for 75 years or so, then, if you accept that I sent my son to get nailed to a cross you'll live for infinity in some nebulous...something...If you don't, well, I'm gonna fry you for infinity. Oh, and by the way, for those 75 years...make sure you give 10% of everything you own to the church so they can enhance my glory even more."

Seems just a little contrived and convenient to me. But as always, I could be wrong

I prefer to take the C.S. Lewis (or perhaps I have just come up with this theory while reading the Screwtape Letters and therefore attribute it to him) philosophy, that is, that God was tired of creating things that in their fiber couldn't disobey him without knowingly ending up in Lucifer's new colony. He wanted something that chose his path as oppose to having no other paths to choose. I trust that he came up with the universe pattern that grants a majority of people heaven, but I can't really know. As regards tithing, that is just to keep the church running. Without it, new churches couldn't have been built, nor pastors given a livable salary. It has been overdone by the church, but it is necessary to keep things running.

That is a very blunt perception of Christianity I will give you that To answer the statement of why doesn't he just fast forward to the end of time since He knows who is going to choose what and where they are going to go, I ask you this: where is the fun in that? lol but really, I do believe that God likes too see us glorifying Him, as we are sentinent human beings that are making CHOICES to do His will, not being forced to like angels. Wouldn't you love your spouse more if they CHOSE to obey you rather than be FORCED to? just a thought

[Redzeppelin]

Howdy , now you're seeing my point--why would the creator of a world [universe] not just do it right in the first place? Go straight to the end game?

It knows what the final outcome of the universe will be, no? Who will make it to the show, and who won't, correct? So why not just make it so? Why make it so convoluted--"worship me and my glory for 75 years or so, then, if you accept that I sent my son to get nailed to a cross you'll live for infinity in some nebulous...something...If you don't, well, I'm gonna fry you for infinity. Oh, and by the way, for those 75 years...make sure you give 10% of everything you own to the church so they can enhance my glory even more."

Seems just a little contrived and convenient to me. But as always, I could be wrong

I prefer to take the C.S. Lewis (or perhaps I have just come up with this theory while reading the Screwtape Letters and therefore attribute it to him) philosophy, that is, that God was tired of creating things that in their fiber couldn't disobey him without knowingly ending up in Lucifer's new colony. He wanted something that chose his path as oppose to having no other paths to choose. I trust that he came up with the universe pattern that grants a majority of people heaven, but I can't really know. As regards tithing, that is just to keep the church running. Without it, new churches couldn't have been built, nor pastors given a livable salary. It has been overdone by the church, but it is necessary to keep things running.

Whoa - what's all this and where did it come from? Did you actually want a response to this post? I'm not even sure what it's trying to say.

[hyperborean]

Agreed. But since the contention behind the "wars" argument is that Christianity has "corrupted" the world implies to me that Christianity has had a more than passing influence in the wars of this world. Highly debatable. Nice example you gave, by the way.

I can't respond to your post because then my post would be deleted (political influence would be the only way to analyze the situation). And by the way...a political debate against me is going to be much harder to win than a philosophical debate (this time it's not about opinion, but instead historical fact).

My argument would deal with Christianity and conservative politics in modern times. This would be your requested "modern example", and I shall hold me tongue (I already got demerits on this forum).

[Bandiceet]

Please be as so kind to identify the particular wars and how Christianity played an instigating role is said conflicts. Otherwise I'm going to be tempted to say that your statement is little more than one of the over-used stereotypes launched at Christians. Remember: the Crusades have already been dealt with, so they are no longer a valid choice. Something post-Renaissance would be nice.

One thing people tend to either don't know or deliberatly forget, is that Adolf Hitler was quite a devout Christian. One of the many theories that abound about why he did what he did to the Jews is because of a mis-construed interpritation of the Christian bible. Taking this view, WW2 was as relgious as it was anything else. Is that post-Renaissance enough for you?

Now, this is my first post here on these boards, and this is the first thread I have read, and went out of my way to join up so I can comment on it. Mind you, I have not read every single 600 odd replies.

I am in the bundle of people are classified as athiest. I find that Athiest is a name used for these people because the names like "Christian" or "Hindu" Or "Jew" or what ever don't convieniantly fit. Alot of Athiests have Faith, it is that they do not have Religion.

Beleif and Faith are very powerful things. Since it is very rare for a person to follow more than one religion at a time, this can make an interesting condry. Relgion "A" beleive that followers of Religion "B" will go to hell for not following Relgion "A". The opposite is also can be said. Since followers of both religions truely beleive the others will go to hell, then everyone will, because of that beleif.

If you think that is a load of Rubbish, that logic more opr less follows all the arguements I have ever been given that God exists.

When your god starts hating the same people you do, you know your god is made up.

[hyperborean]

Welcome to the forums Bandiceet!

[Bandiceet]

Thank you, Hyperborean.