God is Green

[Nightshade]

Yesterday I was watched a doc called God is Green it was quite what expected but basically there was this devout Catholic reporter/journalist whatever person who has decided that God wants us to be enviromentally friendly he then went wizzing all over the world ( yes in a plane creating a massive carbon foot print but he offset it and went see all these religous leaders and went about finding out that most religions have somthing to do with protecting the enviroment and that a cording to him God is 'Green'.
So yupp opions anyone...plus any quote like things form religous texts that I can mull over would be nice. If not great...

[Adudaewen]

Well, I don't have to verses right at hand, but I know that God asks us to be good stewards of what he gives us. And that definitly includes our environment. I mean, He only gave us one habitable planet to live on, so I doubt He's very happy about people destroying it for profit and greed. I'll see what I can dig up in verse. Good topic by the by.

[Virgil]

That God wants us to be good stewarts of the environment is one tradition, but there is also the concept that the earth is for human use. Profit and greed? I guess that's one way to look at it, but I think the nobler value is for people to have better standards of living. I think compassion requires that we ensure people live healthier, longer lives and provide more comfort for their families. I wonder how many people would prefer to do laundry without a washermachine, or travel to another city without a car or a train or a plane. Or I wonder if you would prefer your grandmother not have the medicine that keeps her living longer. I guess we could have remained cave men and then the environment would have been pristine. But then we would have lived short brutish lives, without time for literature and art (which are only possible in economicallyprosperous--or should I say greedy-- times), and without culture. We wouldn't even have these computers to trade ideas if it wasn't for these "greedy" companies and people who are working for a living. On my desk is a picture of the Manhattan skyline, a wonderful achievement of engineering and craft and human skill. The skyline is in its own way a work of art. There is probably not a tree to be seen, but look how far we've come from living in caves? I say that's a good thing. Is it green? No, but the lives being lived, the passions being expressed, the love of community and work and discipline that go on within the skyscrapers are also a reflection of God.

I love the environment, the outdoors, and the wilderness. Don't get me wrong. There's a place for the skyscapers and a place in the country that I like to go hike and get fresh air. But people have raised this environmentalism to a level of religion. And it is not religion, at least not one that I'm familiar with.

[Adudaewen]

I guess I wasn't very clear in my comment. When I was talking about profit and greed I was mostly talking about unnecessary development. For example, In my home town, WalMart wanted to become a Super WalMart, so they decided to buy land that was open, clear, clean farm and grazing land with a beautiful view and dug it up and put a huge building there. Well now there's talk of the Interstate coming through our town and Walmart is planning to move to be closer to it. To, you guessed it, another stretch of beautiful open country. To me that's unnecessary, and greedy to destroy land and then just uproot. You know nothing will go into the old SuperWalMart for years because its been about 10 years since they vacated the old building and nothing has moved into that one. (This is one example, but I could probably give more, and that's just in my tiny town of 13,000.)

I'm certainly not talking about going back to the Dark Ages just to save a few trees. Just being responsible with what you're given. The environment is definitly something God gave to us to use, not just to admire.

[AimusSage]

I recently saw this funny cartoon in the newspaper. It had mozes with the tablets scribing the commandments, saying: "There is only room for 10 commandments, I'll drop Take good care of the environment surely men can't be that stupid."

And now we see what happened, I found it to be quite funny... In a multitude of ways.

[ranzy]

I agree with you, Virgil. I don't want progress to stop or to go back to centuries ago but we don't have to hide ourselves that a lot of scientists are saying that global heating caused by greenhouse effect and pollution is destroying the environment, so I think we should find a way to mantain our standards of living and trying to be more eco-friendly. Developing less polluting fuels and sources of energy, trying not to waste energy and water are examples of what could be done without lowering our standards of living.

[Whifflingpin]

Zoroastrianism has recognized that God is Green for thousands of years.

Various of its religious taboos are (and have "always" been directly environmental. For example, Zoroastrians are, I believe, forbidden to wash in running water, and the traditional exposure of the dead on towers was to prevent pollution of the earth.

Moderation, in preference to excess, is a strong feature of the religion, and pervades all aspects of life, so Zoroastrian fanatics are as unlikely as Zoroastrian gluttons or misers.

[Orionsbelt]

I Guess I feel that the native american traditions have always viewed "colonial" attitudes as unfriendly to the environment. I would have to agree. I agree with Virgil that the comforst of modern living would be hard to give up. Our religious tradition by comparison to native americans is very oriented to what is good for people vs what is good for the living system (if you will) I feel like we don't try very hard. My experience tells me that we won't try very hard until something very bad happens that stops all the bickering. The quality of the outdoor experience have been greatly diminished even since 1950.

[Virgil]

I Guess I feel that the native american traditions have always viewed "colonial" attitudes as unfriendly to the environment. I would have to agree. I agree with Virgil that the comforst of modern living would be hard to give up. Our religious tradition by comparison to native americans is very oriented to what is good for people vs what is good for the living system (if you will) I feel like we don't try very hard. My experience tells me that we won't try very hard until something very bad happens that stops all the bickering. The quality of the outdoor experience have been greatly diminished even since 1950.

What makes you pick 1950? Frankly in the United States since the clean water and clean air laws of the early 1970s, our environment has greatly improved. On top of that we have more park land set aside for non-development than ever before. What evidence is there that it's gotten worst?

And what makes you think that something bad is going to happen. The eco-chondriacs lead you to think that some apocalypse is going to happen. Even taking this global warming at its worst estimate, the earth has supposedly warmed 3/4 of a single degree in a hundred years. That's it. Less than one degree. In its whole life span the earth has varied somewhere between 3-5 degrees. What makes people say that 3/4 of a degree change is severe or that it's not natural? Remember the earth before mankind varied as much as five degrees.

Like I said, environmentalism has become a religion to people mostly who don't have any religion. And they too predict an apocalypse.

[Nightshade]

Like I said, environmentalism has become a religion to people mostly who don't have any religion. And they too predict an apocalypse.

See thats the intresting point this documentry put through according to this guy's resarch almost all religions hold with being green in theory, problem is putting it into practice. And he said thats biggest problem of bring green ideas to the for in the States is that for a long time enviromentals have been precived as just that pagans, nature worshipers, and athesit-scientists.

But personally becasue I think it a moral as well just plain common sense to be green because if we keep going the way we are maybe you Virg we wont see it but with 1 generation, that is say if I have a child when Im 26 with that childs life, there will be mass extinions the weather will have so completly altered youll have lost quite alot of sealevel and cosstal lands becasue of rising seas and perhaps worst of all is that we will rum out of energy and if we dont really start taking it seriously everyone of the so called 'developed countries' are going to be up the creek without a paddle because no one will know how to survive with our glorious technology and luxury dependat life style. And when it comes to it countries have long memories I seriously doubt any of what are now the delevoping world are going to takes in and feed us. I mean why should they? In the end we did it and well suffer for it.

Or of course you could go ... weather goes mad, floods, syorms, earth quakes, mass extinion, changes in animal breeding patterns... OMG its the Judgment day and we can stop worrying about the enviroment because no one is going to survive this anyway.

Me Im both I think it may very well be the start of the "last day" or "Judgment day" if you want to call it that but we cant be postive and we still have reponsibilty to look after things are gifted to us.

[botkin]

The desire to live well and comfortably, to provide abundance for one's own, and to explore nature for this purpose does not contradict the Biblical doctrine that humans are stewards of the earth rather than its owners. There is, however, a limit to how much we can explore the planet before we permanently damage it, and that's where the problem lies. We must realize that in over-exploiting the planet we challenge not only God's prerrogative as the only one entitled to destroy the whole damned thing, but our very chances of survival.

But, of course, the ecological movement, with its self righteousness and its goofy protest shennanigs, is begging not to be taken seriously. And though every preacher of approaching doom sounds ridiculous, and I'll take a wild-eyed prophet or holy man over Al Gore any day.

[Scheherazade]

I recently saw this funny cartoon in the newspaper. It had mozes with the tablets scribing the commandments, saying: "There is only room for 10 commandments, I'll drop Take good care of the environment surely men can't be that stupid."

[papayahed]

This has nothing to do with anything but it cheeses me off. Near my mom's house they just keep building strip mall after strip mall, even when half of them are still empty, there are at least 2 huge stores that are closed yet there's still building going on. Urban sprawl annoys me.

[Thorwench]

What makes people say that 3/4 of a degree change is severe or that it's not natural?

Because it will be more than that, probably around 4 to 5 degrees (Celsius, mind) in the next 100 years? Because the pole caps are melting? Because the Alps loose vast amounts of ice? Because there are land slides and mud slides in a frequency never seen before (at least not since recording became common)? Because we had the warmest winters ever (where I live) recorded?
Because the polar bear is on the brink of extinction for not able to hunt anymore? Because there are malaria carrying species of mosqitoes popping up in central Europe where it should be too cold for them? Because there are continously growing deserts in one place and flood in abundance in another, taking peoples' livelihoods away?
The apocalypse will not be a big bang, but a sneaky little bastard. The results will still be quite difficult to deal with. Progress is fine. I like my insulated house with a nice fire burning and my medicine when I am ill. I also like disposable nappies and a drive with 150 miles per hour on the motorway. But perhaps I should dispense with these wonderful drives, buy a smaller car, take care to have an energy-efficient household, abstain from extensive packaging and wrapping and switch the light off when I am not in the room. Perhaps I should tell my government to cut down on fossile energy production and encourage alternatives instead.
I agree that environmentalists can be a nuisance. What's wrong with slow breeders, for instance? But because they are sometimes weird and fanatic shouldn't get in the way of seeing the real issues behind their ideology.
However, considering the big picture it won't make that much of a difference - when everything perished humankind will perish too. Thereafter, nature has still millions of years to recuperate and without us it will be easy sailing.

[Orionsbelt]

What makes you pick 1950? ...etc ...

Like I said, environmentalism has become a religion to people mostly who don't have any religion. And they too predict an apocalypse.

I don't know any statistics about global warming ... eco-initiatives or people who don't have religion. I know that when I walk in the woods, the chestnut trees are gone, as is the American elm tree. I know that the locust tress turn brown far sooner than they used to. I know that there are many more ATV trails than there has ever been. ... with the ruts in the forest that go along with it. I know that when I paddle down a creek that has just come down from a flood there is bottles and tires, tarps, and trash in great abundance stuck in the trees. I know that Japanese knot weed grows where it wasn't before. I know that I used to be able to walk in lake Erie without shoes. I know that carp don't belong in our rivers.. especially the one with tumors on them. I know that you used to not have to stock trout streams every spring. I know that oak trees used to have less gauls on them. I know that crown vetch should not be growing in hillside meadows. I know most poplars have died off. I know that Hemlocks used to be abundant as did sycamore trees. I know that elderberry trees where once very common. I know you can't find wild ginger any more. I know you have to look hard to find spice bush or 'sang. I know that you shouldn't see soap bubbles on rivers. I know that lake Erie has less than half of the species that used to live in it even when the phos levels were through the roof. I know that Turkeys used to be twice the size you see now. I know you used to be able to hike in places without treating water. I know that most people don't even know what these things are. Other than that I don't know a damn thing.