A question about Onegins behaviour

[bazarov]

Would she share a fate of that of Anna Kerenina? There are so many thing to consider when making a decision like that...I can't remember, did she and her husband have children at that point?

I would imagine Tatayana struggles with it quite a bit as well. At least Onegin is free to love again if and when he recovers from this heartbreak, she is trapped in a loveless marriage for the rest of her life, with no real hope of a reprieve, thinking of what could've been. I don't really believe she's able to just turn off her feelings for him because she made the choice to stay, the sad thing is, I think they'll both be miserable for a long time.

I'm not sure are you talking about Ana(you probably don't ); she did have a child with her husband in that moment and Tatyana didn't have any kids with N.N.
I'm sure she never did and never will stop loving Onegin and he'll never also forget her. But that's how the things were going in literature of Pushkin's time; it would be impossible for Onegin to be happy with Tatyana or anybody else. It also can't be like Ana and Alyosha because they were happy( for some time at least), but that was realism; this is romantisam, and Romantic heroes were sentenced to short and very unhappy life, often destroyed beacuse of unreturned love, just like Pechorin or Child Harold or Werther...

When I look at it, Onegin is a 'dandy'- he suppresses emotion.

But at the same time, I agree, he probably didn't believe he should disillusion Tatiana by giving her this false impression that he loved her. I think he didn't want her to be hurt, which shows a degree of love, but at the same time, when you look at Onegin, what kind of capacity did he have at that point in the narrative to love her devotedly? He didn't strike me as the 'type' of person who would want to commit himself entirely to a woman.

No, Onegin is not a dandy anymore, in the begining of the plot he admits that he's tired of that way of life and he needs some peace. He totaly changes his modus vivendi, and I guess they would be very very happy.

[Idril]

I'm not sure are you talking about Ana(you probably don't ); she did have a child with her husband in that moment and Tatyana didn't have any kids with N.N.

I was talking about Tatyana, I just couldn't remember if there were children involved or not, I was thinking no but my memory has been known to fail me before.

but that was realism; this is romantisam, and Romantic heroes were sentenced to short and very unhappy life, often destroyed beacuse of unreturned love, just like Pechorin or Child Harold or Werther...

That's very true and the story of Onegin and Tatyana wouldn't be nearly so memorable if they had live happily ever after so it's a good thing they didn't, but it's still sad.

No, Onegin is not a dandy anymore, in the begining of the plot he admits that he's tired of that way of life and he needs some peace. He totaly changes his modus vivendi, and I guess they would be very very happy.

But I think at the time of his rejection of Tatyana, he still had one foot in his old life. He was in the process of shedding that way of life, realizing how empty it was and yet still not feeling worthy of the good things in life, still not confident in his ability to live in a better way, otherwise I think he would've accepted Tatyana that first time. And I do agree they would've been very happy together if they'd had better timing.

[Evi]

My opinion is that Onegin with Tatyana would have been happy together ( at least as more couples are!!) and this is the tragedy in this story. The bad timming. When he understood that she was the right woman for him, she was alread married to his cousin.

As Bazarov said this was the time of romantism and the opinions are so different from our modern times. Onegin was written in 1780 or something, right?
Tatyana didnt have children with her husband and as he is decribed in the book ( if i am not mistaken) he is much older than her and uglier and generally he wasnt "her best bet" in this life. So, her decision to remain with him for me, it is heroic!

Evi

[olichka]

I think that the reasons Onegin rejected Tatyana are very complex and interconnected, and it's hard to extricate one from another.

When I look at it, Onegin is a 'dandy'- he suppresses emotion.

It's true, Onegin suppresses or he is simply incapable of sincere emotion because he's only after fun, excitement and sex ! Serious emotion would lead to commitment and the responsibilities and the banalities of marriage and family life, and, therefore, boredom. That's why Onegin is after married women because he doesn't have to commit himself ; he also wants variety which is so richly provided by the affairs with married women.

Firstly, I think, he rejects Tatyana simply because he's not capable of feeling any tender or romantic emotions, having suppressed them for so long while engaging in sexual adventures. He's also in a blase stage of life and in a state of "spleen" ( I think Pushkin refers to it, but I can't remember for sure ), having seen it all and just not capable of any fresh and lively feelings.( Am I repeating myself---anyways, his emotional state is very complex, moody and negative. Later on, at Tatyana's birthday party, he's experiencing great irritation at seeing Tatyana in a forlorn mood).

Secondly, as he himself has told Tatyana, he's just not suited to a family life which would bore him quickly ! And since Tatyana is a young girl of marriageable age, the only feasible relationship with her would be marriage. "Trifling" with her would lead to scandal, since she's from the aristocratic circles and not just some serf girl, although not from the very upper crust of society.

Thirdly, she just doesn't attract him because she's a simple provincial girl (i.e. living on an estate in the country and not in the highly aristocratic St. Petersburg ) which he considers "low class" and boring. And he's not able to see her potential because he's only used to high society ladies. She's also sexually naive and uncorrupted which would make for a very boring relationship indeed !!!

It's interesting that when he does become interested in her, she's a married woman revolving in the highest aristocratic circles and whose husband is a 1812 war hero who is honoured by the Tsar himself. Remember his amazement at seeing Tatyana so grand, majestic and brilliant during her appearance at a court ball ! And it's then that a feeling begins to stir in a formerly "cold and passive soul " ( my transl. of remembered lines in Russian ).

The question remains , is Onegin truly in love with her, or does he just want another affair with a married woman ? Does he want her now because being involved with an aristocratic woman who has connections at the court would bring him prestige and clout ?

As an aside, I'm not sure whether Onegin's response to her letter was cruel. He was forthright and decent, he could have taken advantage of her ( as in Natasha / Kuragin situation ), but he didn't. He did speak tender words to her ( as when comparing a young girl's first love to a young sapling tree shedding its first leaves ). And in the end, he actually did her a favour--- by turning her down he spared her a life with someone as debauched and cynical as he. So I think that the critics' outcry about his treatment of Tatyana is just "much ado about nothing" !!!

[olichka]

I can still remeber his words:
Al' nisam sazdan za blaženstvo
i dušom ostajem mu stran,
zaludu vaše savršenstvo
ja njega nisam dostojan!
Beautiful quote, I'll always remeber it!

Um, in what language is the above passage ? Or is it just distorted Russian ?

[olichka]

[Tatyana's]... husband is decribed in the book ( if i am not mistaken) he is much older than her and uglier and generally he wasnt "her best bet" in this life. So, her decision to remain with him for me, it is heroic!

In this respect she's supposed to be a symbol of the true Russian woman, a Russian woman of the people, in that they remained faithful to their husbands even if they didn't love them. In general, Russian peasant women ( supposedly ) ran loose before marriage, but remained faithful after marriage. The aristocratic women, on the contrary, guarded their chastity before marriage, but then had affairs afterwards. So the fact Tatyana's behaviour deviates from the aristocratic norm makes her a true representative of her people.

Even her parting words to Onegin are in the style of a Russian folk song : " I will be faithfull to him till the end of time " --" Ya budu vek yemu verna ".

Her behaviour is similar to that of the Decembrists' wives who follow their husbands into exile, as depicted in Nekrasov's " The Russian women ". One such woman is Maria Volkonsky who leaves her child and follows a husband she doesn't love into exile to Siberia.

[Boris239]

Um, in what language is the above passage ? Or is it just distorted Russian ?

Olichka, it's Croatian. Or at least it is my best guess, becuase Baz is from Croatia

[olichka]

Olichka, it's Croatian. Or at least it is my best guess, becuase Baz is from Croatia

That's what I thought originally, but then I mixed up Bazarov with you (same 1st letter of name ) and since I knew you were from the USSR and a native Russian speaker, I thought you were just making fun of the verses !

[Boris239]

That's what I thought originally, but then I mixed up Bazarov with you (same 1st letter of name ) and since I knew you were from the USSR and a native Russian speaker, I thought you were just making fun of the verses !

How could I make fun of Pushkin?!! It's almost blasphemy

[olichka]

How could I make fun of Pushkin?!! It's almost blasphemy

Actually, I'm from the former USSR, too, and as you must know, along with revering their literary masters, they also poke fun at them and their works, sometimes even twisting the words for a vulgar effect . I know some people (even PH.D's ) who actually made fun of the celebrated lines spoken by Tatyana's husband ( but I will not go into that here ).

Actually, it's not all that inappropriate to make fun of Pushkin, considering that he was a libertine and a blasphemer himself---remember the " GAVRILIADA " ??!!

That being said, I consider Pushkin a poetical wonder--the beauty of the Russian language in his works is just stunning. In fact, " Eugene Onegin " is the only large work in verse that I've enjoyed because of it !!!

[Boris239]

Actually, I'm from the former USSR, too, and as you must know, along with revering their literary masters, they also poke fun at them and their works, sometimes even twisting the words for a vulgar effect . I know some people (even PH.D's ) who actually made fun of the celebrated lines spoken by Tatyana's husband ( but I will not go into that here ).

Actually, it's not all that inappropriate to make fun of Pushkin, considering that he was a libertine and a blasphemer himself---remember the " GAVRILIADA " ??!!

That being said, I consider Pushkin a poetical wonder--the beauty of the Russian language in his works is just stunning. In fact, " Eugene Onegin " is the only large work in verse that I've enjoyed because of it !!!

I was obviously joking about blasphemy. Are the lines spoken by the Prince:

Onegin, I skryvat' ne stanu
Bezumno I lublu smetanu.


Actually, while I like and revere Pushkin, he was never my favorite poet. I always preferred poets of the Silver Age- Gumilev, Akhmatova, Severyanin.

[olichka]

I was obviously joking about blasphemy. Are the lines spoken by the Prince:

Onegin, I skryvat' ne stanu
Bezumno I lublu smetanu.

Almost, but some words are twisted. Forgive for the vulgarity, but since you asked :

" Onegin, ya s krOvat' ne stanu
Bezumno ya lublu Tatianu ! "

[olichka]

Do you, guys, like the opera " Eugene Onegin " by Tchaikovsky ?

I, personally, think it's superb !

[Boris239]

Yes, I really enjoyed watching it in St. Petersburg's Maliy Operniy Theater. Or should I say listening to it?

[olichka]

Yes, I really enjoyed watching it in St. Petersburg's Maliy Operniy Theater. Or should I say listening to it?

You're so lucky you saw it in a theater, and at the Maly's, at that !
I only saw it on T.V., and I believe it was a joined Canadian / British production. It was great, though, with Alan Thomas in the title role !

Did you see the old Soviet film ( late 1950's---early 1960's ) which was a film/opera, with Galina Vishnevskaya singing the role of Tatyana ? Wasn't it great ? Both the singing and the acting were superb !