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Thread: All about Nietzsche

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    Thinking...thinking! dramasnot6's Avatar
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    All about Nietzsche

    Recently, after seeing so many references and admirers of him on the forum, I have been researching the philosophy of Nietzsche. I've done a bit of skimming of the forum and have not found a specific thread for him yet, so I hope I'm not being repetitive by creating this one. I thought here we could discuss various things about Nietzsche, his philosophy, and his life.
    Below is the link to an article I found especially clear and helpful to explain his basic philsophy if anyone is interested.
    http://plato.stanford.edu/archives/f...ies/nietzsche/.
    To get us started here are some extracts(i underlined what seemed to be the important points) from that article

    Nietzsche absorbed the German romanticist, and specifically Schopenhauerian, view that non-rational forces reside at the foundation of all creativity and of reality itself, identified a strongly instinctual, wild, amoral, "Dionysian" energy within pre-Socratic Greek culture as an essentially creative and healthy force. Surveying the history of Western culture since the time of the Greeks, Nietzsche lamented over how this "Dionysian," creative energy had been submerged and weakened as it became overshadowed by the "Apollonian" forces of logical order and stiff sobriety. He concluded that European culture since the time of Socrates had remained one-sidedly Apollonian and relatively unhealthy. As a means towards cultural rebirth, Nietzsche advocated the resurrection and fuller release of Dionysian artistic energies -- those which he associated with primordial creativity, joy in existence and ultimate truth.

    Reluctant to construct a philosophical "system," and sensitive to the importance of style in philosophic writing, Nietzsche composed these works as a series of several hundred aphorisms whose typical length ranges from a line or two to a page or two. Here, he often reflects upon cultural and psychological phenomena in reference to individuals's organic and physiological constitutions. The idea of power (for which he would later become known) sporadically appears as an explanatory principle, but Nietzsche tends at this time to invoke hedonistic considerations of pleasure and pain in his explanations of cultural and psychological phenomena.
    Nietzsche set forth some of the existential ideas for which he became famous, namely, the proclamation that "God is dead" and the doctrine of "eternal recurrence"-- the idea that one is, or might be, fated to relive forever every moment of one's life, with no omission whatsoever of any pleasurable or painful detail. Nietzsche's atheism -- his account of "God's murder" (section 125) -- was voiced in reaction to the conception of a single, ultimate, judgmental authority who is privy to everyone's hidden, and personally embarrassing, secrets; his atheism also aimed to redirect people's attention to their inherent freedom, the presently-existing world, and away from all escapist, pain-relieving, heavenly otherworlds. To a similar end, Nietzsche's doctrine of eternal recurrence (sections 285 and 341) was formulated to draw attention away from all worlds other than the one in which we presently live, since eternal recurrence precludes the possibility of any final escape from the present world.
    This is just some food for thought to get people started. You can discuss some of the points here, or anything you like involving Nietzsche.
    I declare after all there is no enjoyment like reading! How much sooner one tires of anything than of a book! When I have a house of my own, I shall be miserable if I have not an excellent library.


    Jane Austen, Pride and Prejudice

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    the age of rationalism had its roots in early ancient greece with the decline of Pre-Socratic thinkers - Hericlitus being one of my favorite; and so while many point to Socrates as the truly embodied free thinker, Neitzsche rightly characterizes Socrates as an ugly old man who used philosophy as a mechanism of control in the very way christians use guilt.

    nietzsche is, in my mind, the greatest philosopher of all time for reasons that i'll share as this thread unfolds. for now, consider that if you deleted every single philosophical word ever written and left just one line for the world to come out from under its spell of god and creature comforts, it would be this:

    Jesus said, "He that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Nietzsche answered, "No. He that humbleth himself wants to be exalted."
    "He was nauseous with regret when he saw her face again, and when, as of yore, he pleaded and begged at her knees for the joy of her being. She understood Neal; she stroked his hair; she knew he was mad."
    ---Jack Kerouac, On The Road: The Original Scroll

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    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jon1jt View Post
    Jesus said, "He that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Nietzsche answered, "No. He that humbleth himself wants to be exalted."
    So Nietzsche reduces down to pychobabble?
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    "Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
    So Nietzsche reduces down to pychobabble?
    i knew there'd be a point we'd disagree on something!
    "He was nauseous with regret when he saw her face again, and when, as of yore, he pleaded and begged at her knees for the joy of her being. She understood Neal; she stroked his hair; she knew he was mad."
    ---Jack Kerouac, On The Road: The Original Scroll

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    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    I know there is more to Nietzche than that. I don't remember any of my Nietzche but there were aspects of his thoughts that I remember I found interesting.

    BTW, you know my sensitivity to psychobabble.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    "Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

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    the true beauty of Nietzsche is that you won't find in his writing a philosophical "system." he admits that language fails him, which is why his writings go poetic at points, but that didn't stop him from doing violence to metaphysical/theology. there's a little something for everybody, not to mention all the misinterpretations of nietzsche.
    "He was nauseous with regret when he saw her face again, and when, as of yore, he pleaded and begged at her knees for the joy of her being. She understood Neal; she stroked his hair; she knew he was mad."
    ---Jack Kerouac, On The Road: The Original Scroll

  7. #7
    My only problem with Nietzsche is that he was so arrogant. Very intelligent though, very intelligent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallantry View Post
    My only problem with Nietzsche is that he was so arrogant. Very intelligent though, very intelligent.

    Nietzsche was no more arrogant than Christianity he put on notice. Jesus was an intelligent man too; it's Christian theology that is not. or so Nietzsche says.
    "He was nauseous with regret when he saw her face again, and when, as of yore, he pleaded and begged at her knees for the joy of her being. She understood Neal; she stroked his hair; she knew he was mad."
    ---Jack Kerouac, On The Road: The Original Scroll

  9. #9
    " "God," "the immortality of the soul," salvation," a "beyond"-these are mere notions, to which I paid no attention, on which I never wasted any time, even as a child-though perhaps I was never enough of a child for that-I am quite unacquainted with atheism as a result, and still less as an event: with me it is instinctive. I am too inquisitive, too skeptical, too arrogant, to let myself be satisfied with an obvious and crass solution of things. God is such an obvious and crass solution; a solution which is a sheer indelicacy to us thinkers-at bottom He is really nothing but a coarse commandment against us: ye shall not think! . . . I am much more interested in another question which the "salvation of humanity" depends much more than upon any piece of theological curiosity: the question of nutrition. (Ecce Homo)

    I'm not quoting this to point out anything concerning his philosophy, just his arrogance, which he himself claims.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallantry View Post
    " "God," "the immortality of the soul," salvation," a "beyond"-these are mere notions, to which I paid no attention, on which I never wasted any time, even as a child-though perhaps I was never enough of a child for that-I am quite unacquainted with atheism as a result, and still less as an event: with me it is instinctive. I am too inquisitive, too skeptical, too arrogant, to let myself be satisfied with an obvious and crass solution of things. God is such an obvious and crass solution; a solution which is a sheer indelicacy to us thinkers-at bottom He is really nothing but a coarse commandment against us: ye shall not think! . . . I am much more interested in another question which the "salvation of humanity" depends much more than upon any piece of theological curiosity: the question of nutrition. (Ecce Homo)

    I'm not quoting this to point out anything concerning his philosophy, just his arrogance, which he himself claims.
    nietzsche was already in the early throes of insanity by the time he wrote ecco homo, so keep that in mind when you quote from it. also around that time he signed several pieces of correspondence with, "jesus christ."

    still, even if i am to take his "too arrogant" line seriously, he's merely stating what most of us will not: there are a certain set of beliefs that will not be entertained because they're so utterly putrid, revolting, and vile to one's sensibilities. the particular point of departure depends on the individual. for Nietzsche, that was GOD.
    don't you know, "GOD IS DEAD."
    "He was nauseous with regret when he saw her face again, and when, as of yore, he pleaded and begged at her knees for the joy of her being. She understood Neal; she stroked his hair; she knew he was mad."
    ---Jack Kerouac, On The Road: The Original Scroll

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    Pièce de Résistance Scheherazade's Avatar
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    Sorry to repeat a cliche but...
    Quote Originally Posted by jon1jt View Post
    don't you know, "GOD IS DEAD."
    Don't you know, '"NIETZSCHE IS DEAD" - GOD'?

    ~
    "It is not that I am mad; it is only that my head is different from yours.”
    ~


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    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
    So Nietzsche reduces down to pychobabble?
    I don't think it is psychobabble. I see the quote as Jesus, or traditional Christian doctrine, claiming that there is some sort of predestination through piouty and good works, where as Nietzsche sees it as an act of wilful self.
    I declare after all there is no enjoyment like reading! How much sooner one tires of anything than of a book! When I have a house of my own, I shall be miserable if I have not an excellent library.


    Jane Austen, Pride and Prejudice

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    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dramasnot6 View Post
    I don't think it is psychobabble. I see the quote as Jesus, or traditional Christian doctrine, claiming that there is some sort of predestination through piouty and good works, where as Nietzsche sees it as an act of wilful self.
    I don't know where you get pre-destination from in that Jesus quote.

    Drama, anyone that can speculate into the motives of people to me is dabbling in psychobabble. Should I speculate what your motives are for being a vegan? I could come up with some psychobabble thoughts. It wouldn't mean much.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    "Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

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    Thinking...thinking! dramasnot6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil View Post
    I don't know where you get pre-destination from in that Jesus quote.

    Drama, anyone that can speculate into the motives of people to me is dabbling in psychobabble. Should I speculate what your motives are for being a vegan? I could come up with some psychobabble thoughts. It wouldn't mean much.
    Dismissing something as psychobabble is not very illuminating. We are discussing Nietzsche. If you want to discuss welcome, if you do not you are welcome to just observe.
    I declare after all there is no enjoyment like reading! How much sooner one tires of anything than of a book! When I have a house of my own, I shall be miserable if I have not an excellent library.


    Jane Austen, Pride and Prejudice

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    Vincit Qui Se Vincit Virgil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dramasnot6 View Post
    Dismissing something as psychobabble is not very illuminating. We are discussing Nietzsche. If you want to discuss welcome, if you do not you are welcome to just observe.
    I'm sure there is lots of good and important ideas from Nietzsche to discuss. I just don't find that statement very profound. And I disagree; pointing put psychobabble is illuminating. When I thinker resorts to finding underlying motives into the minds of people, then I feel an obligation to point out shotty thinking.
    LET THERE BE LIGHT

    "Love follows knowledge." – St. Catherine of Siena

    My literature blog: http://ashesfromburntroses.blogspot.com/

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