Which Shakespeare play to teach?

[Redzeppelin]

At the risk or being a "hum-bug" I wonder about giving 8th graders Shakespeare - at least in full dramatic form. As a high school teacher (English 11 and AP English 12) I find that while you can deliver the essential plot of a Shakespearean play to younger students, the greater themes sometimes elude them. I know, I know...I sound like I'm patronizing junior high students, but I guess I have a problem with taking kids through the immense beauty of Hamlet or the terrifying bleakness of King Lear. I mean, why would you want to have them read it when the issues it grapples with may glide right over them? I don't want to get overwhelmed with posts about what 8th graders can comprehend - I teach for a living and I've taught 8-12. I just believe that you don't expose kids to greatness just because its great - you expose them to a level of greatness that they will be able to appreciate and absorb. I think the comedies might be ok, but again - to what effect? If the goal is to introduce Shakespeare, why not his sonnets or narrative poetry? Or even excerpts of soliloquies?

I suppose you can teach them whatever play strikes your fancy - but none will necessarily be "better" or "easier" than another. As I remind my students: Shakespeare did not write R&J for 9th grade anthologies or Hamlet for 12th grade anthologies - they were written for adult audiences and are replete with mature experiences/ideas/expressions that - even in HS - sometimes cannot fully be grasped by young students. I'm all for introducing Shakespeare, but I'd rather junior high teachers saved the "heavies" like Macbeth, Lear, Hamlet for high school. Just last year the AP 12 teachers had to ask the freshman teacher to quit assigning Grapes of Wrath to 9th graders because its in our AP 12 curriculum. Ninth graders should be dealing with Of Mice and Men, Cannery Row and such - don't take away the crown jewel from those of us at the end of the educational "food chain"! That's why I chose high school - I wanted to teach the toughest, most profound stuff out there. Why drop the heavies on them so young?

But God bless you for teaching, byucougs, and if Shakespeare is a passion of yours, by all means teach it - because that's what matters most. Good luck

[Stephanie B.]

When I subed for a good friend of mine, who taught grade nine and ten, he had always loved to teach the kids hamlet. The fun part I had with it was showing the kids different versions of the films. Watching movies in class always grabed thier attentions! Try it out. i know you are only teaching 8 but, work with your school board's choices. If Hamlet is there, then reward the kids afterwards with movies, and popcorn.

cheers Ed

I'm in highschool and my memory of hamlet and the movies we were shown is not a happy one. All i ask is that you DO NOT show the one with mel gibson as hamlet, it was literally torture. And it depends if you have finished the entire play then watch the movie or reading an act and watching an act. With the latter everyone loses interest and it falls flat. I suggest using the mvie where hamlet kills claudis with the chandalier. Plus everyone got a kick out of the gravedigger!

[Niamh]

At the risk or being a "hum-bug" I wonder about giving 8th graders Shakespeare - at least in full dramatic form. As a high school teacher (English 11 and AP English 12) I find that while you can deliver the essential plot of a Shakespearean play to younger students, the greater themes sometimes elude them. I know, I know...I sound like I'm patronizing junior high students, but I guess I have a problem with taking kids through the immense beauty of Hamlet or the terrifying bleakness of King Lear. I mean, why would you want to have them read it when the issues it grapples with may glide right over them? I don't want to get overwhelmed with posts about what 8th graders can comprehend - I teach for a living and I've taught 8-12. I just believe that you don't expose kids to greatness just because its great - you expose them to a level of greatness that they will be able to appreciate and absorb. I think the comedies might be ok, but again - to what effect? If the goal is to introduce Shakespeare, why not his sonnets or narrative poetry? Or even excerpts of soliloquies?

I suppose you can teach them whatever play strikes your fancy - but none will necessarily be "better" or "easier" than another. As I remind my students: Shakespeare did not write R&J for 9th grade anthologies or Hamlet for 12th grade anthologies - they were written for adult audiences and are replete with mature experiences/ideas/expressions that - even in HS - sometimes cannot fully be grasped by young students. I'm all for introducing Shakespeare, but I'd rather junior high teachers saved the "heavies" like Macbeth, Lear, Hamlet for high school. Just last year the AP 12 teachers had to ask the freshman teacher to quit assigning Grapes of Wrath to 9th graders because its in our AP 12 curriculum. Ninth graders should be dealing with Of Mice and Men, Cannery Row and such - don't take away the crown jewel from those of us at the end of the educational "food chain"! That's why I chose high school - I wanted to teach the toughest, most profound stuff out there. Why drop the heavies on them so young?

But God bless you for teaching, byucougs, and if Shakespeare is a passion of yours, by all means teach it - because that's what matters most. Good luck

In the five years i was in secondary school i did two of shakespeares plays. Romeo and Juliet for my Junior and Hamlet for my senior. We had to spend two years Analysing the ins and outs of each play, Plots, sub plots, doing character Analysis etc.

To state that Shakespeare shouldn't be studied by 8th Or 9th graders is undermining their intellegence. Just because they're fourteen doesnt mean they wont appriciate or understand Shakespeare. And By the way in shakespeares time Fourteen year olds could be married and where classed as adults; so does that not mean that they too would not have been in the Audiences of his plays performances?

[Redzeppelin]

In the five years i was in secondary school i did two of shakespeares plays. Romeo and Juliet for my Junior and Hamlet for my senior. We had to spend two years Analysing the ins and outs of each play, Plots, sub plots, doing character Analysis etc.

To state that Shakespeare shouldn't be studied by 8th Or 9th graders is undermining their intellegence. Just because they're fourteen doesnt mean they wont appriciate or understand Shakespeare. And By the way in shakespeares time Fourteen year olds could be married and where classed as adults; so does that not mean that they too would not have been in the Audiences of his plays performances?

OK - I figured once I posted my opinion that I would get a response like this. As I said above - I have taught 8-9th graders and I know they are capable of appreciating Shakespeare. Done in the right way, middle-school and elementary students can appreciate Shakespeare - his appeal is universal.

If you'll re-read my post, you'll see that I never said Shakespeare shouldn't be studied by 8-9th graders, and my concluding sentence made it clear that a teacher should teach what s/he loves best - and if that be Shakespeare, then so be it.

I suppose my issue is this: junior high school students can study Shakespeare, but I dislike the idea that they want to grab the "heavies" like Hamlet, King Lear, and Macbeth. Regardless as to whether or not the kids can "appreciate" those plays, I believe you do the play a disservice by presenting it to an audience that ultimately cannot connect with its most profound themes without diluting their power. I'm sorry, but Hamlet, Lear, Macbeth deal with issues that go far beyond what most 8th graders can understand. Have you really done the kids a favor if you've given them something that they think is kind of "cool" but they don't really get it? The comedies kids get because comedy looks at what makes us human -there is no introspection because we're focused on the foibles of the characters. For tragedy to be powerful, we have to follow the protagonist into areas that young teens can't penetrate. I'm all for high expectations for teens, but I also believe that you give them that which is most able to connect with them.

[*Classic*Charm*]

I'm not a teacher (clearly) but since I'm bored, might I offer up a student's opinion?

In this case I'd have to agree with Redzepplin. With good side notes, Shakespeare can be very beneficial to younger grades. I myself studied A Midsummer Night's Dream in the fifth grade. It was good, because the side notes made it more undertstandable, the plot and themes could be made easy to comprehend and it was a great opertunity to ask a younger class to be insightful- something that there wasn't alot of in elementary school. Also, thr fact that it was somewhat fairy-tale-like made it interesting to those who weren't particularly interested in its literary value (it was, after all, grade 5). Shakespeare is good in the younger grades as lnog as you keep to to the simpler plays with the more basic themes. As Redzepplin said, leave the heavy stuff for highschool. I studied King Lear this past semester (Grade 12 University English), and I can tell you that as a student who loves and is very enthousiastic about english, I would not have gotten nearly as much out of it had it been done in an earlier year.

I do think 3 plays is a bit heavy for a grade 8 class, unless they are PARTICULARLY strong, because at that level of experience, when thay are just being exposed to the language, they might end up, by the end of it, not able to distinguish between them anymore. But yes, get your students interested in Shakespeare as early as possible, as long as the works you start with correspond with what they are experiencing at their stage of the game.

[hyperborean]

In my high school we had to read Shakespeare each year accordingly: Romeo & Juliet; Julius Caesar; Macbeth; Hamlet.

[Daizee]

I think The Tempest would be a really good one for you to do. I fondly remember studying it when I was a similar age...happy days!

With The Tempest, it could also be introduced by thinking about islands (Lost, Pirates of the Caribbean etc.) The Tempest really lends itself to discussion and performance. The children also love acting out the scenes with the drunken Trinculo and Stefano - we had a right laugh!! xx

[quasimodo1]

Merchant of Venice, one of the plays understandable to readers of all levels. RJS

[Robinflamingo]

I think Comedy of Errors would be a fabulous choice. If you don't want to do another comedy, then I would attempt Merchant of Venice. As You Like It would also be wonderful.

As someone who has taught Macbeth three periods a day, twice a year for many, many years, I really think it is suited to older kids. It is Shakespeare's most psychological drama, and the ambition and amoral decisions that Macbeth makes in the name of "fate" really beg for mature discussion.

Of course, I teach teenagers. Mature discussion is rare, but much more likely at 17 than at 13.

[JBI]

I wouldn't recommend Macbeth or Hamlet, simply because they have too many things going on at once, and too complex protagonists (Or antagonists, I don't know what to call Macbeth).

Othello is good for the younger readers, because the text is relatively straightforward in comparison with other plays, and there is only one central plot with no relief side plots.

Romeo and Juliet is good, because a) everyone already knows the story, and b) the text is straightforward. I feel that Romeo loses its flavor once you turn about 15, so you might as well let them enjoy it while they still can. The constant end-stopping also makes the text relatively easy to understand, when compared to something like The Winter's Tale which is completely enjambed.

I would also recommend doing The Taming of The Shrew. My opinion of the play is that it is the most comical, and probably the most brilliant of his comedies. The lines are relatively straight forward, and the plot is simple. This I think is comic Shakespeare at its best, simply due to the fact that it is appealing to almost everyone.

I feel that an extremely heavy drama like Macbeth or Hamlet won't go well because the students will lose interest in it. I wouldn't even touch Lear if I were you, because even grade 12s don't get it.

The Merchant of Venice would work well too, because it is a mix of romantic and comic Shakespeare, with sympathetic characters that everyone can relate to.

(I personally wouldn't do A Midsummer Night's Dream, because I still can't get myself through the last scene on my re-reads; boring!).

[*Classic*Charm*]

Romeo and Juliet is good, because a) everyone already knows the story, and b) the text is straightforward. I feel that Romeo loses its flavor once you turn about 15, so you might as well let them enjoy it while they still can. The constant end-stopping also makes the text relatively easy to understand, when compared to something like The Winter's Tale which is completely enjambed.

Ooh I don't think I'd recomend Romeo and Juliet. I really don't think it's a good play to be taught in school, particularly because I think students get confused by all the filler in between the crucial scenes.

The Taming of the Shrew could be good for younger grades, but I think alot of the humour would be lost on them.

[byquist]

Would go w/The Tempest -- Ariel and Caliban are interesting for youth. Also the relationship of Miranda and Ferdinand. All taking place on an island. Father-daughter relationship. And all those sprites putting on a play. Shipwreck and treachery, magic.

[*Classic*Charm*]

[QUOTE=byquist;406057]And all those sprites putting on a play. QUOTE]

HAHA

[bibliophile190]

My favorite history is Julius Caesar. We read it in ninth Grade, and I really enjoyed it. I thought it was very easy to understand.

[aswelch]

I dissagree. Shakespeare was VERY funny, if you understand his jokes. it is difficult to understand some of them because of the difference in time and culture. Most of his jokes rely on turns of phrase, such as a quote early in Romeo and Juliet about cutting off their maidenheads (the heads of the maidens but also the maidenhead aka their virginity). The other important thing to remember about comedies is that they involve great amounts of physical comedy. You can't get that just from reading a play. GO AND SEE ONE. That is what a play was written for, to be acted, not to be read.