Is Muhammad in the Bible?

[Mililalil XXIV]

There is a thread called "For the Truthseeker".
It claims that Muhammad is in the Bible. If that may be asserted, along with the antichristian ideas also expressed, then it is only fair to show from positively substantiated Biblical statements what the view of the Biblical Prophets and the first Christians really is.
To begin with, the PARACLETE is not Mohammad, but the HOLY SPIRIT.
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Index/...eriklutos.html
According to Christianity that existed not only way before islam, but from the beginning of the Church of JESUS CHRIST, to try to use some man such as Muhammad to displace GOD the HOLY SPIRIT is an unpardonable blasphemy.
Is he the PROPHET that should supercede Moses?
http://www.letusreason.org/Islam2.htm
http://answering-islam.org/BibleCom/deut18-18.html
http://www.branchofdavid.org/islam.htm
Except one believes islamic literature alone, honesty does not allow that this Bible verse speaks of Muhammad.
Where islam and Muhammad are actually mentioned in the Bible, there is no praise of either. I haven't come out and quoted such statements, but they are there - though it seems that all the world is expected to say nothing on behalf of the Christian Faith slandered, nor of a man that has not brought Peace to the world, though he died about 1300 years ago. There is no other man either in the whole world, nor in history, that (despite when he lived and how he lived) no one feels free to describe as his known descriptions warrant.
Countless people speak abusively about Christians still living and suffering to do good, and who threatens them?
Is it fair to leave all questions and concerns about one so enfluential as to have worldwide censuring done on his behalf with arms, 1300 years after his death, when his side attacks everything else?
I shouldn't feel any threat upon me to apologize for speaking facts.
If anyone is interested, I have many facts on a whole subject that seems under worldwide lock and key, a culture that won't allow any other to seem right in freely exchanging thoughts on facts.

[Amra]

Maybe you should venture out and read more than the discredited answering islam site to get a more balanced perspective on Islam and muslims.

though it seems that all the world is expected to say nothing on behalf of the Christian Faith slandered, nor of a man that has not brought Peace to the world, though he died about 1300 years ago.

Only someone utterly unfamiliar with history could give a statement like this. Prophet Mohammed a.s brought with him both political and religious laws that changed the world forever. The social norms that were implemented through Islam elevated the pagan societies into great civilizations of that time.
The industrialization and rivalization that followed for centuries after his death brought Europe out of dark ages. Michael Hart named Prophet Mohammed a.s. the most influenctial person in the history, acknoledging his influence and importance.
Here is something for you to read:

"My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular levels...

Muhammad founded and promulgated one of the world's great religions, and became an immensely effective political leader. Today, thirteen centuries after his death, his influence is still powerful and pervasive... Like all religions, Islam exerts an enormous influence upon the lives of its followers. It is for this reason that the founders of the world's great religions all figure prominently in this book. Since there are roughly twice as many Christians as Moslems in the world, it may initially seem strange that Muhammad has been ranked higher than Jesus. There are two principal reasons for that decision. First, Muhammad played a far more important role in the development of Islam than Jesus did in the development of Christianity. Although Jesus was responsible for the main ethical and moral precepts of Christianity (insofar as these differed from Judaism), St. Paul was the main developer of Christian theology, its principal proselytizer, and the author of a large portion of the New Testament.

Muhammad, however, was responsible for both the theology of Islam and its main ethical and moral principles. In addition, he played the key role in proselytizing the new faith, and in establishing the religious practices of Islam.

Furthermore, Muhammad (unlike Jesus) was a secular as well as a religious leader. In fact, as the driving force behind the Arab conquests, he may well rank as the most influential political leader of all time... the Arab conquests of the seventh century have continued to play an important role in human history, down to the present day. It is this unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence which I feel entitles Muhammad to be considered the most influential single figure in human history.

There is no other man either in the whole world, nor in history, that (despite when he lived and how he lived) no one feels free to describe as his known descriptions warrant.

Is this supposed to be an argument for something?

Countless people speak abusively about Christians still living and suffering to do good, and who threatens them

First of all, you are confusing things. It is one thing to speak "abusively" (whatever that means) to Christians or muslims, and another thing to do that to Prophet Mohammed a.s or any holy figure that is of great importance to a certain religion. If anyone has been bashing Jesus a.s, then that would have been the Christians themselves. You will NEVER find a muslim bashing or portraying Jesus a.s in any way, so your comment is totally unnecessary.

Is it fair to leave all questions and concerns about one so enfluential as to have worldwide censuring done on his behalf with arms, 1300 years after his death, when his side attacks everything else?

Administration? This is obviously referring to current politics, and I would like to know whether we can discuss those or not, so that I may answer this without having my post erased.

If anyone is interested, I have many facts on a whole subject that seems under worldwide lock and key, a culture that won't allow any other to seem right in freely exchanging thoughts on facts

Please enlighten us....

[Amra]

"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

The fact is that this statement DOES NOT specify that it refers to Jesus, and it can be applied to Mohammed a.s as well as these statements will prove.
I personally do not care whether or not MOhammed a.s is foretold in the Bible or not, but that there are reasons to view this verse from that perspective, I do agree.

1) Moses had a father and a mother. Muhummed also had a father and a mother. But Jesus had only a mother, and no human father.

2) Moses and Muhummed were born in the normal, natural course, i.e. the physical association of man and woman; but Jesus was created by a special miracle.

(3) Moses and Muhummed married and begat children, but Jesus remained a bachelor all his life.

(4) Moses and Muhummed were accepted as prophets by their people in their very lifetime. No doubt the Jews gave endless trouble to Moses and they murmured in the wilderness, but as a nation, they acknowledged that Moses was a Messenger of God sent to them. The Arabs too made Muhummed's life impossible. He suffered very badly at their hands. After 13 years of preaching in Mecca, he had to emigrate from the city of his birth. But before his demise, the Arab nation as a whole accepted him as the Messenger of Allah. But according to the Bible: 'He (Jesus) CAME UNTO HIS OWN, BUT HIS OWN RECEIVED HIM NOT.' (John 1:11). And even today, after two thousand years, his people- the Jews, as a whole, have rejected him.

(5) Moses and Muhummed were prophets as well as kings. A prophet means a man who receives Divine Revelation for the Guidance of Man and this Guidance he conveys to God's creatures as received without any addition or deletion. A king is a person who has the power of life and death over his people. It is immaterial whether the person wears a crown or not, or whether he was ever addressed as king or monarch: if the man has the prerogative of inflicting capital punishment - HE IS A KING. Moses possessed such a power. Do you remember the Israelite who was found picking up firewood on Sabbath Day, and Moses had him stoned to death? (Numbers- 15:13). There are other crimes also mentioned in the Bible for which capital punishment was inflicted on the Jews at the behest of Moses. Muhummed too, had the power of life and death over his people

(6) Moses and Muhummed brought new laws and new regulations for their people. Moses not only gave the Ten Commandments to the Israelites, but a very comprehensive ceremonial law for the guidance of his people. Muhummed comes to a people steeped in barbarism and ignorance. They married their step-mothers; they buried their daughters alive; drunkenness, adultery, idolatry, and gambling were the order of the day. Gibbon describe the Arabs before Islam in his "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire", THE HUMAN BRUTE, ALMOST WITHOUT SENSE, IS POORLY DISTINGUISHED FROM THE REST OF THE ANIMAL CREATION.' There was hardly anything to distinguish between the "man" and the "animal" of the time; they were animals in human form.
"From this abject barbarism, Muhummed elevated them, in the words of Thomas Carlysle, "into torch-bearers of light and learning.' 'TO THE ARAB NATION IT WAS AS A BIRTH FROM DARKNESS INTO LIGHT. ARABIA FIRST BECAME ALIVE BY MEANS OF IT. A POOR SHEPHERD PEOPLE, ROAMING UNNOTICED IN ITS DESERTS SINCE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD. SEE, THE UNNOTICED BECOMES WORLD NOTABLE, THE SMALL HAS GROWN WORLD-GREAT. WITHIN ONE CENTURY AFTERWARDS ARABIA WAS AT GRANADA ON ONE HAND AND AT DELHI ON THE OTHER. GLANCING IN VALOUR AND SPLENDOUR, AND THE LIGHT OF GENIUS, ARABIA SHINES OVER A GREAT SECTION OF THE WORLD. ..." The fact is that Muhummed gave his people a Law and Order they never had before.
As regards Jesus, when the Jews felt suspicious of him that he might be an impostor with designs to pervert their teachings, Jesus took pains to assure them that he had not come with a new religion - no new laws and no new regulations. I quote his own words: 'THINK NOT THAT I AM COME TO DESTROY THE LAW, OR THE PROPHETS: I AM NOT COME TO DESTROY, BUT TO FULFIL. FOR VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, TILL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS, ONE JOT OR ONE TITLE SHALL IN NO WISE PASS FROM THE LAW, TILL ALL BE FULFILLED.'(Mathew 5:17-18).

(7) Both Moses and Muhummed died natural deaths, but according to Christianity, Jesus was violently killed on the cross.

8) Moses and Muhummed both lie buried in earth, but according to you, Jesus in heaven.

9)If Ishmael and Isaac are the sons of the same father Abraham, then they are brothers. And so the children of the one are the BRETHREN of the children of the other. The children of Isaac are the Jews and the Children of Ishmael are the Arabs - so they are BRETHREN to one another. The Bible affirms, 'AND HE (ISHMAEL) SHALL DWELL IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN.' (Genesis 16:12). 'AND HE (ISHMAEL) DIED IN THE PRESENCE OF ALL HIS BRETHREN.(Genesis 25:18). The children of Isaac are the brethren of the Ishmaelites. In like manner Muhummed is from among the brethren of the Israelites because he was a descendant of Ishmael the son of Abraham. This exactly as the prophecy has it- 'FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN'.(Deut.18:18). There the prophecy distinctly mentions that the coming prophet who would be like Moses, must arise NOT from the 'children of Israel' or from 'among themselves', but from among their brethren. MUHUMMED THEREFORE WAS FROM AMONG THEIR BRETHREN!

10) "The prophecy proceeds further:'.......AND I WILL PUT MY WORDS INTO HIS MOUTH.......' What does it mean when it is said 'I will put my words in your mouth'? History tells us that Muhummed was forty years of age. He was in a cave some three miles north of the City of Mecca. It was the 27th night of the Muslim month of Ramadaan. In the cave the Archangel Gabriel commands him in his mother tongue: 'IQRA' which means READ! or PROCLAIM! or RECITE! Muhummed is terrified and in his bewilderment replies " MA ANA BEQARA which means I AM NOT LEARNED! The angel commands him a second time with the same result. For the third time the angel continues. Now Muhummed, grasps, that what was required of him was to repeat! to rehearse! And he repeats the words as they were put into his mouth:

"1. Proclaim! (or read!) in the name of thy Lord and Cherisher, Who created-

2. Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood:

3. Proclaim! And thy Lord is Most Bountiful,-

4. He Who taught (the use of) the pen,-

5. Taught man that which he knew not. (surah 96, 1-4)

To me, this last prophecy is the most interesting one, because it is very specific to the Qur'an and to the revelation of it to Mohammed a.s. Every word from it is simply told to MOhammed a.s (put into his mouth) without his influence. I don't know how you can claim the same from Jesus a.s, when Christians themselves do not believe that the Bible was revealed to him in that way....It seems to me that you are just trying to stretch the truth to fit your own ideas..... Anyways, I do not intend to engage into a discussion on whether or not those verses refer to MOhammed a.s or not, because to me, that has absolutely no bearing, but I just wanted to show that there are valid reasons why people have different opinons on this issue.

[Mililalil XXIV]

Maybe you should venture out and read more than the discredited answering islam site to get a more balanced perspective on Islam and muslims.



Only someone utterly unfamiliar with history could give a statement like this. Prophet Mohammed a.s brought with him both political and religious laws that changed the world forever. The social norms that were implemented through Islam elevated the pagan societies into great civilizations of that time.
The industrialization and rivalization that followed for centuries after his death brought Europe out of dark ages. Michael Hart named Prophet Mohammed a.s. the most influenctial person in the history, acknoledging his influence and importance.
Here is something for you to read:

"My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential persons may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular levels...

Muhammad founded and promulgated one of the world's great religions, and became an immensely effective political leader. Today, thirteen centuries after his death, his influence is still powerful and pervasive... Like all religions, Islam exerts an enormous influence upon the lives of its followers. It is for this reason that the founders of the world's great religions all figure prominently in this book. Since there are roughly twice as many Christians as Moslems in the world, it may initially seem strange that Muhammad has been ranked higher than Jesus. There are two principal reasons for that decision. First, Muhammad played a far more important role in the development of Islam than Jesus did in the development of Christianity. Although Jesus was responsible for the main ethical and moral precepts of Christianity (insofar as these differed from Judaism), St. Paul was the main developer of Christian theology, its principal proselytizer, and the author of a large portion of the New Testament.

Muhammad, however, was responsible for both the theology of Islam and its main ethical and moral principles. In addition, he played the key role in proselytizing the new faith, and in establishing the religious practices of Islam.

Furthermore, Muhammad (unlike Jesus) was a secular as well as a religious leader. In fact, as the driving force behind the Arab conquests, he may well rank as the most influential political leader of all time... the Arab conquests of the seventh century have continued to play an important role in human history, down to the present day. It is this unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence which I feel entitles Muhammad to be considered the most influential single figure in human history.




Is this supposed to be an argument for something?



First of all, you are confusing things. It is one thing to speak "abusively" (whatever that means) to Christians or muslims, and another thing to do that to Prophet Mohammed a.s or any holy figure that is of great importance to a certain religion. If anyone has been bashing Jesus a.s, then that would have been the Christians themselves. You will NEVER find a muslim bashing or portraying Jesus a.s in any way, so your comment is totally unnecessary.



Administration? This is obviously referring to current politics, and I would like to know whether we can discuss those or not, so that I may answer this without having my post erased.




Please enlighten us....

The fact is, I didn't gather information from that site - it was merely faster than typing to leave a few URLs.
It is undeniable that the religion Muhammad began is the worst attack on the female sex on earth.
Do you actually expect the man that has caused more bondage and fear than any one else in history, and for whom we actually now face possibilities of a chain of wars, to be praised? No one gets killed for representing things Hitler made himself infamous for - but people have died for saying very little against Muhammad.
I know of no one being killed for any destruction against Christians.
As it is, getting back on topic, either a muslim ought to accept the whole of the Gospel of Saint John the Apostle, and not just say one sentence is acceptable, then superimpose it upon the farthest thing from JESUS' Mind when HE promised the HOLY SPIRIT (WHO inspires Purity and Love), or he must reject even that whole verse he is used to misusing, along with everything that is not the quran, which one man wrote, unaccompanied by any sign from Heaven, conveniently claiming to be the final prophet.
In Judaism and Christianity, that itself is impossible, for Moses said that he wished all Believers had upon themselves the SPIRIT upon himself also, and were all Prophets. The Prophet Joel said that in the last days, the LORD would pour out HIS SPIRIT on all flesh, and every one of GOD's sons and daughters would prophesy. And we were commanded to preach the Gospel to the end of the age - to every nation, whther it would outlaw evangelization or not. I can show you what the Scriptures actually foretell of Muhammad, islam, and the quran - it is clearer than anything once you see it.
Everything about islam first of all served Muhammad, then, in a smaller way, those men he needed to bait into helping him to fight his battles. It demolished the world as it was beginning to become.
You know nothing about JESUS, because you don't know your rights to seek and find. I saw true Miracles and left behind antichristianity for ever. You are taking one mortal's cues, 1300 years after his demise, because you are under the pressures exerted by his religion.
I still haven't mentioned the Bible references to Muhammad, islam, and the quran. I have no desire to hurt you personally, nor to push your soul, against its free will, like a large square piece through a small oval opening (think of baby toys, here - just work with me, here). In caring for you, I think you are under a horrible, dead weight, and beg of you to see in the sympathy I have for you personally, sincerity that sees your happiness hidden from you at present. Nations that long thrived have disappeared, and I see that it could happen again to non-muslims if we do not have equal freedom of speech.
If you hate me, then may your anger run off from you and leave you to think, and may you come to see the good heart that is truly Christian, from a GOD that wants Happiness for little ones, and for women, and for decent men.

[Amra]

May Allah t. give you peace as I have found in Islam. Amin.

I have no desire to engage in a religious discussion with a person who attacks that which is holy to me.

Bismillah...


109:1 Say : O ye that reject Faith!
109:2 I worship not that which ye worship,
109:3 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
109:4 And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
109:5 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
109:6 To you be your Way, and to me mine.

[Scheherazade]

This section of the Forum is to discuss religious texts. If you are unable to do this without insulting other members or their religious beliefs, please do not post.

This thread will now be closed.