January/Hemingway Book: 'A Farewell to Arms'

[Scheherazade]

We are reading Farewell to Arms in January. Please post your thoughts and questions on the book in this thread.



Book Club Procedures

[papayahed]

Crap, can we slow the months down I still haven't finished Love in the time of Cholera, The french Leuitenants woman, or Hogfather!!! Now Farewell to Arms?? Alright, anything for Ernie.

[starrwriter]

Crap, can we slow the months down I still haven't finished Love in the time of Cholera, The french Leuitenants woman, or Hogfather!!! Now Farewell to Arms?? Alright, anything for Ernie.

Some things to keep in mind:

The book was based on Hemingway's experience as a 19-year-old ambulance driver on the Italian front of World War I and his love affair with the older British nurse who took care of him after he was wounded. But, unlike Lt. Henry, Ernie never went over the wall as a deserter. And exactly how he was wounded is shrouded in mystery. The "official" version is in the book: he was blown up by an artillery shell while delivering cheese to troops in the field. But another version said he was taking a bath when the hot water heater blew up. Only Ernie knew the truth, but I suspect the second version is what really happened because friends and family back in Oak Park, Illinois, observed that he was very reluctant to discuss details of his wounding after he was declared a war hero upon returning home.

One of the most interesting parts of the novel is a strange aspect of the relationship between Lt. Henry and his nurse-lover. It borders on clinical paranoia as Lt. Henry muses that people who find happiness in love are doomed to be destroyed by "the world" (whatever that means.)

Hemingway re-wrote the last paragraph of the novel over 100 times. Read it as carefully as he wrote it because it's a masterpiece of understated emotion. The obvious things he omits is what makes the ending so powerful. (Hemingway once said what a writer leaves out is just as important as what he puts into a story -- which is a very Zenlike idea.)

The real British nurse dumped Ernie as too young to marry and he carried a torch for her for many years, even after he married another woman. You never forget your first love, etc.

Whatever you do, DON'T watch the two movie versions of this novel. The 30s version starred Gary Cooper, who acted as dumb as a fence post. In the 1957 version Rock Hudson delivered his lines like a shell-shock victim and Jennifer Jones' lipstick was all over her face.

(The link below to an in-depth analysis is no substitute for actually reading the book, but it may help to understand the story if you get stuck:
http://www.bookrags.com/notes/fta/)

[Virgil]

I think Star is getting ahead of everyone. Let's start with the first chapter. Why does Hemingway start with this? No introduction of a character; just 2 pages for a whole chapter; 5 paragraphs in all; and all he basically talks about is the weather? Are the themes of the novel carefully imbedded here?

[Virgil]

Crap, can we slow the months down I still haven't finished Love in the time of Cholera, The french Leuitenants woman, or Hogfather!!! Now Farewell to Arms?? Alright, anything for Ernie.

Papaya (I hope you don't mind me droping off the last syllable of your name; it seems so much more elegant), you'll find that A Farewell to Arms is a much faster read.

[papayahed]

Papaya (I hope you don't mind me droping off the last syllable of your name; it seems so much more elegant), you'll find that A Farewell to Arms is a much faster read.

Papaya is just fine, its waaayy better then P-hed which someone else tried to slip by me.

I think I read A farewell to arms previously but have no recollection of the book except the beginning part where he is injured.

[starrwriter]

Papaya is just fine, its waaayy better then P-hed which someone else tried to slip by me.

P-hed!!! Now why didn't I think of that? I must be getting slow.

[Scheherazade]

I have just started reading it (couple of chapters yet) but it is developing nicely although I am finding Hemingway's prose hard work... Half a page long sentences and all (This is my second Hemingway book read in English).

Let's start with the first chapter. Why does Hemingway start with this? No introduction of a character; just 2 pages for a whole chapter; 5 paragraphs in all; and all he basically talks about is the weather? Are the themes of the novel carefully imbedded here?

Because Hemingway was desperate to impress his readers with his descriptive powers right from start???

I read the first chapter twice yesterday trying to place things... and I thought that he is talking more how weather affects the war (no more fighting because of snow) rather than talking 'about the weather' and how the small village where they are positioned is affected by all this. The picture drawn is far from being a pretty one and somewhat lacking passion... Detached almost.

I love this sentence:

I had drunk much wine and afterward coffee and Strega and I explained, winefully, how we did not do the things we wanted to do; we never did such things.

(Chapter 3)

'Winefully' is such a nice way to put it.

[starrwriter]

The picture drawn is far from being a pretty one and somewhat lacking passion... Detached almost.

Dispassionate and detached=understated, which was the essence of Hemingway's writing style. He thought it produced a more powerful impact on the reader than hyperbole.

Descriptive narration was not a strong point at this stage of Hemingway's career. He was still in his 20s when he wrote "Farewell."

[Virgil]

I have just started reading it (couple of chapters yet) but it is developing nicely although I am finding Hemingway's prose hard work... Half a page long sentences and all (This is my second Hemingway book read in English).Because Hemingway was desperate to impress his readers with his descriptive powers right from start???

Let me answer some of my own questions, given that I've read this a couple of times. Here's what I think he's doing in the first chapter:
>He sets up the central mood of the novel, the dreary rain. Hem said he liked to write like Cezanne painted. I think he does this with the first chapter.
>The rain becomes important later on. It's also nature imposing itself on human events, again forshadowing.
>He also introduces the theme of modern mechanized life (tractors, motor-cars, guns, 6.5mm clip). Again this is important to the story.
>He ends the chapter with disease and death. Another forshadowing.
>And in the last sentence, he introduces irony ("only seven thousand died" "but it was checked"). Irony is a constant as the novel progresses.

To some degree, the first chapter is the novel in a miniature.

[Scheherazade]

Since I haven't read the whole book, I cannot comment on how the first chapter relates to the rest of the novel but I find it rather matter of fact... and as I said earlier, quite detached; not one expects from a book about a war. However, I think that is maybe the point Hemingway was trying to make? That once you are caught up in it, even the war becomes an ordinary thing... Numbers are just figures on papers and people still carry on with their usual ways (drinking, dating etc), which seems rather trivial on the face of something as devastating as the war.

Re. Hemingway's descriptive powers... Even though I loved it in Old Man and The Sea, I am not so keen on it in this book. Maybe Starr has a point that his style was somewhat immature in this book. His dialogues are, on the other hand, very strong. They contrast wonderfully with his long and detailed narrative. They are short, sharp and snappy. I loved reading Chapter 5, which offers plenty of these. People don't even speak in full proper sentences but so plainly express themselves.

And could someone please tell me about the stick Catherine was carrying? Is it something like a whip? 'a thin rattan stick like a toy riding-crop, bound in leather'?

I was a little worried about her in Chapter 6 initially but I think I can understand her better now.

[papayahed]

And could someone please tell me about the stick Catherine was carrying? Is it something like a whip? 'a thin rattan stick like a toy riding-crop, bound in leather'?

Looking to get one?

[Scheherazade]

Looking to get one?

Not unless you recommend it!

[Virgil]

Actually, I never thought about that riding crop until you pointed it out. Catherine had it as a remembrance of her previous boy friend who was killed. It does fit with one of the themes Hemmingway is after: War is no longer the Romantic endeavor for young men, that the mechanized modern war has changed everything and has no sense of romance. The riding crop suggests the calvary or chivalry of a past age.

Let's discuss the chapters before Henry meets Catherine, for a moment. Hem is setting up two characters that are diametrically opposite: Rinaldi and the priest. With henry almost caught in between. What's that all about?

[papayahed]

Actually, I never thought about that riding crop until you pointed it out. Catherine had it as a remembrance of her previous boy friend who was killed. It does fit with one of the themes Hemmingway is after: War is no longer the Romantic endeavor for young men, that the mechanized modern war has changed everything and has no sense of romance. The riding crop suggests the calvary or chivalry of a past age.

Let's discuss the chapters before Henry meets Catherine, for a moment. Hem is setting up two characters that are diametrically opposite: Rinaldi and the priest. With henry almost caught in between. What's that all about?

The riding crop did seem oddly out of place when it was first mentioned.

I was wondering about the priest myself, was he an actual person or was he made up to be the "opposite". It doesn't seem to me that the priest and Rinaldi are opposites, just Different priorities....maybe.