off in a somewhat related but slightly different direction. I just started reading the caine mutiny and the captain who will eventually experience the mutiny is named "queeg." of all the names in the world herman wouk had to chose from, it makes you wonder why he chose one similar to one from moby dick.
Originally Posted by bounty
I read the book and watched the movie many moons ago. In all honesty, neither made any real sense to me. As the picture reveals in the end, there never has been a mutiny in naval history despite all the battle fatigue and tensions that existed during combat. A paranoid officer who was losing his faculties and jeopardizing his men would have been relieved of command immediately. This especially when reported to Admiral Halsey whose command was reputed to be impeccably well ordered.
The only real merit to the movie was the superb acting of Humphrey Bogart who to this day has maintained his reputation as Hollywood's greatest actor. Just consider his role in Edward Dymtryk's The Left Hand of God [1955]. Bogie was terribly miscast as a Catholic priest. Despite that he played the role superbly. It's what he always did. He was the best. To me, his role in Caine was so great that he is the only thing worthy of any merit in the movie.
I don't mean to be critical, it's just that the movie & book made no real sense to me. And why a name like 'Queeg"? I don't have a clue. Perhaps I do need to see/read them both again some day.
When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent
~ Isaac Asimov
It can’t be a coincidence, but Captain Queeg bears absolutely no resemblance to Queegueg, or to Ahab for that matter.
Uhhhh...
In light of Wallace's disclosures in his analysis and parallels between Melville and Douglass, the book becomes even more relevant today. Am so glad to see that people are discussing it and applying its priceless lessons to today's life.
When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent
~ Isaac Asimov
If Queeg was affected by madness as was alleged in the book (so far as I recall) then it could be said that there was a parallel between him and Ahab. Recall that some of the men (in particular Starbuck) considered a mutiny against him but the deal fell through. Had they done so their lives may well have been spared.
When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent
~ Isaac Asimov
Queeg and Ahab are fundamentally different. Ahab would never cut and run. He’d rather die. And he did. Queeg made a habit of it, ole yellow stain or something like that. Both were touched, but by different mental illnesses. Ahab was monomaniacal and Queeg was paranoid.
Uhhhh...
i watched the movie a long time ago poppin, but I don't remember enough of it to speak to your experience with it. I love the book/movie combination so maybe i'll watch it again after I finish the book. so far the books been enjoyable.
I did an internet search for "queeg's" naming and didn't find anything. turns out herman wouk died just a handful of years ago at age 103. we could have written him and asked!
yeah, I have a hard time seeing Humphrey bogart in the role of a priest. itd be like those Saturday night live casting skits where kevin spacey does Christopher walken trying out for han solo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzeeAVuTzlE
Melville's MD gives a reader the impression he believes there is no free will. That despite all prayers, all beliefs, all sacrifices religious adherents may make, all talk of Divine mercy, all is fated.
When we initially meet Ishmael, he is musing on various things. Then he says, ... my going on this whaling voyage, formed part of the grand programme of Providence that was drawn up a long time ago ... Though I cannot tell why it was exactly that those stage managers, the Fates, put me down for this shabby part of a whaling voyage, when others were set down for magnificent parts in high tragedies, and short and easy parts in genteel comedies, and jolly parts in farces—though I cannot tell why this was exactly; yet, now that I recall all the circumstances, I think I can see a little into the springs and motives which being cunningly presented to me under various disguises, induced me to set about performing the part I did, besides cajoling me into the delusion that it was a choice resulting from my own unbiased freewill and discriminating judgment.
In Ch XLVII - Mat Maker - Ish appears to be weaving a mat of some kind and go into some doldrums. He wonders if he was under some "Loom of Time, and I myself were a shuttle mechanically weaving and weaving away at the Fates ... aye, chance, free will, and necessity - no wise incompatible - all interweavingly working together."
Ahab also believed in Fate - that he was fated to kill MD: “Ahab is for ever Ahab, man. This whole act’s immutably decreed. ‘Twas rehearsed by thee and me a billion years before the ocean rolled. Fool! I am the Fates’ lieutenant; I act under orders.” That is, that we was fated to kill the whale. But Fate had different ideas for him, the vessel, and the crew as "the hand of Fate had snatched all their souls."
Such an unhappy fate for for those unfortunates!
When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent
~ Isaac Asimov
Forgot to add an idea and one important line ~ "a strange fatality pervades the whole career of these events , as if verily mapped out before the world itself was charted". In other words, that everything which happened here was fated from the very beginning of time.
~ The Town-Ho's Story p 209
Also, the Sermon ~ it was a lesson on the acceptance of divinely ordained Fate. That in doing so, life may be sustained as Jonah the prophet and the people of Ninevah had when he was allowed out of the belly of the beast and fulfilled his mission.
Last edited by hellsapoppin; 01-03-2024 at 12:52 AM.
When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent
~ Isaac Asimov
^Nice.
Though predestination is not exactly fate, it sure seems like it from a practicing heretic’s point of view. Also, I believe the Quaker’s doctrinal belief system soundly rejects Calvinism. Be that as it may, this book definitely has the feel that everybody in it is on a one-way collision-course with fate.
Right there towards the end, in the Symphony chapter, it almost seems like Ahab will pull himself and the crew out of their death spiral, but then the inevitability of fate returns and they’re back on the chase. It’s a beautiful day and we catch him in a reflective moment, staring out at the sea. Starbuck also finds him there. Ahab confides to the First Mate that he’s been a lousy spouse and father by being gone all the time — he’s been ashore only 3 out of the past 40 years. He even acknowledges that madness has gripped him in his hunt for Moby. Starbuck sees his opening and implores him to set sail for home. He evokes his own wife and child:
But Ahab is in the grip of fate:“’Tis my Mary, my Mary herself! She promised that my boy, every morning, should be carried to the hill to catch the first glimpse of his father’s sail! Yes, yes! no more! it is done! we head for Nantucket! Come, my Captain, study out the course, and let us away! See, see! the boy’s face from the window! the boy’s hand on the hill!”
Dispirited and resigned, Starbuck gives up and wanders away:“What is it, what nameless, inscrutable, unearthly thing is it; what cozening, hidden lord and master, and cruel, remorseless emperor commands me; that against all natural lovings and longings, I so keep pushing, and crowding, and jamming myself on all the time; recklessly making me ready to do what in my own proper, natural heart, I durst not so much as dare? Is Ahab, Ahab? Is it I, God, or who, that lifts this arm? But if the great sun move not of himself; but is an errand-boy in heaven; nor one single star can revolve, but by some invisible power; how then can this one small heart beat; this one small brain think thoughts; unless God does that beating, does that thinking, does that living, and not I. By heaven, man, we are turned round and round in this world, like yonder windlass, and Fate is the handspike.
And here’s the kicker — Ahab stares down at the ocean again, but sees more that just his own reflection:But blanched to a corpse’s hue with despair, the Mate had stolen away.
Here’s how Nathaniel Philbrick describes the scene in his book, Why Read Moby Dick?:Ahab crossed the deck to gaze over on the other side; but started at two reflected, fixed eyes in the water there, Fedallah was motionlessly leaning over the same rail.
This is where Melville is perhaps the most profound in his portrait of Ahab as the demagogue and dictator. In the end, even the fiercest of tyrants is done in, not by his own sad, used-up self, but by his enablers, the so-called professionals, who keep whispering in his ear.
Uhhhh...
Throughout MD there are repeated references to atavistic characters described as cannibals and savages or references to cannibalism and savagery. These are used to illustrate the world of Melville which is one of endless chaos, pain, privation, and unfulfilled desire. Early on we are introduced to Queequeg as discussed previously. He is repeatedly referred to as "cannibal" [pp 39, 40 et seq]. He is a "savage", a "creature in the transition state neither caterpillar nor butterfly" [p 42].
We then learn that the entire environs is populated with "sea dogs" [p 44] and other "wild specimens ... and cannibals" [p 45]. Even the vessel can be viewed as a "cannibal of a craft". [p 72] No surprise, then, that Melville mentioned the ill fated Essex the doomed vessel whose loss caused its crew members to resort to cannibalism.* [p 171]
In this world anyone and everyone can become a "savage" ~ "As with the Hawaiian savage, so with the white sailor-savage ... as with the Greek savage ... full of barbaric spirit ... Dutch savage Albert Durer" [p 219]. They can also become atavists: "Belubed fellow critters ... Cursed fellow critters {are} 'voracious' eaters [p 236]. Previously we learned that Queequeg ate only steaks cooked rare [p 32]. Such voraciousness similar to that of the sharks who gorged themselves on a dead whale and each other [pp 240, 241 et seq].
This is a dog eat dog world where even college educated men like Ahab, princely types like Queequeg, God fearing Christians such as Starbuck, and folks from every walk of life can be or become a savage or an atavist. This notwithstanding invocations such as those of Starbuck who cried "God keep me! Keep us all! [p 140]. All doomed by the evils of an unjust fate and merciless universe.
*https://www.google.com/search?q=the+...t=gws-wiz-serp
When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent
~ Isaac Asimov
I thought the "voraciousness" of the sharks going at Stubb's whale was one of Ishmael's most vivid descriptions:
Yeech!They viciously snapped, not only at each other’s disembowelments, but like flexible bows, bent round, and bit their own; till those entrails seemed swallowed over and over again by the same mouth, to be oppositely voided by the gaping wound.
As for Queequeg as "a creature in the transition state neither caterpillar nor butterfly," I think it's important to note that Queequeg himself doesn't change. Rather it's Ismael's perception of him that changes, and presumably the reader's perception as well. Ismael, in fact, is almost on a Holden Caulfield level as an unreliable narrator. We get the story told to us through the filter of a full range of Ishmael's emotions, and he changes much from the front to the back cover.
I think I've mentioned it before, but one of the wonderful (and sometimes painful) things about Moby Dick is the level of detail Ishmael gives in his descriptions. I could almost smell the stink of rendering whale blubber into oil as the crew set to work at that task. Then I had a strong desire to tidy up my own place as the crew scrubbed down the ship after they'd butchered the whale. Melville gave us as clear a window into the lives of those people as we could possibly hope for.
Uhhhh...
Sancho,
I could almost smell the stink of rendering whale blubber into oil as the crew set to work at that task. Then I had a strong desire to tidy up my own place as the crew scrubbed down the ship after they'd butchered the whale.
I had exactly the same thought as you did!
When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent
~ Isaac Asimov
I mentioned previously that the MD universe is virtually female free with only the inn's cook and Aunt Charity making any significant contribution to the narrative. However, the latter makes an indirect appearance in The Monkey Rope. Through the chapter Queequeg strenuously exercises his duties. In order to give him some relief one of the stewards give him some ginger brew as he had pledged to do to Aunt Charity. Stubb objects and asserts that such a brew is of Temperance origin. Then he lies by saying it is likely to poison Q and the crew if more is given (in fact he is endeavoring to compel Q to comply with Ahab's orders):
Mr. Dough-Boy, where lies the virtue of ginger? Ginger! is ginger the sort of fuel you use, Dough-boy, to kindle a fire in this shivering cannibal? Ginger!—what the devil is ginger? Sea-coal? firewood?—lucifer matches?—tinder?—gunpowder?—what the devil is ginger, I say, that you offer this cup to our poor Queequeg here.”
“There is some sneaking Temperance Society movement about this business,” he suddenly added, now approaching Starbuck, who had just come from forward. “Will you look at that kannakin, sir: smell of it, if you please.” Then watching the mate’s countenance, he added, “The steward, Mr. Starbuck, had the face to offer that calomel and jalap to Queequeg, there, this instant off the whale. Is the steward an apothecary, sir? and may I ask whether this is the sort of bitters by which he blows back the life into a half-drowned man?”
“I trust not,” said Starbuck, “it is poor stuff enough.”
“Aye, aye, steward,” cried Stubb, “we’ll teach you to drug a harpooneer; none of your apothecary’s medicine here; you want to poison us, do ye? You have got out insurances on our lives and want to murder us all, and pocket the proceeds, do ye?”
“It was not me,” cried Dough-Boy, “it was Aunt Charity that brought the ginger on board; and bade me never give the harpooneers any spirits, but only this ginger-jub—so she called it.”
“Ginger-jub! you gingerly rascal! take that! and run along with ye to the lockers, and get something better. I hope I do no wrong, Mr. Starbuck. It is the captain’s orders—grog for the harpooneer on a whale.”
Stubb then proceeds to give Q a large flask of "strong drink" and throws the ginger tea into the ocean. So again we see that Ahab used demon drink to compel his charges to conform to his rigid influence. This is what often happens when the universe is female free.
When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent
~ Isaac Asimov
Ah yes, The Monkey Rope. Hey, does OSHA know about this operation?
One of the nice things about Moby is the chapters are generally short. This probably falls into the TMI category, but an average reader can easily knock out a chapter or two during an average bowel movement. Anyway I went back and reread The Monkey Rope… ahem.
As far as I can figure, they are skinning a whale of its blubber with a “blubber hook.” It reminded me of a kitchen contraption we have that peels and cores an apple. The thing has a suction cup so you can attach it to the counter. Then you mount the apple on a couple of spikes. It’s got a spring-loaded blade that leans against the apple and as you turn the apple with a hand crank you get a long strip of apple peel. Magic.
Anyway that’s basically what the whalemen are doing only on a massive scale. Queequeg is acting as the spring-loaded blade while precariously standing atop the whale carcass, which is being voraciously fed upon by sharks. For his safety he’s attached to Ismael by a “monkey rope.” Meanwhile Tashtego and Daggoo are sort of casually killing sharks with their whale spades. Every once in a while Queequeg will put his foot on the head of shark and push him away. Ya can’t make this stuff up. I got the sense Melville had seen this done and was passing it on to us.
I’m sure there’s a literary mechanism or two going on here, but I’ll leave it to you-all to suss it out. Ismael does comment that he is once again married to Queequeg, this time by the Monkey Rope.
As for Doughboy giving Queequeg a ginger brew at the completion of the operation — FOUL! Starbuck was being a good mate by sending him back for some real grog.
I originally pictured Aunt Charity as Frank Reynolds’ Betsey Trotwood. I may have to change my image of her to an axe-wielding Carrie Nation.
Uhhhh...
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