GEN 25 - 28 "JACOB AND ESAU" 2 boys, 2 nations

[JacobBenAvraham]

SHABBAT SHALOM: Parasha "Toldot" (generations) 'JACOB AND ESAU" 2 BOYS, 2 NATIONS

GEN 25:19 - 28:9..................MAL 1:1 - 2:7.......................ROM 9:6 - 13

We see in this Parasha the birth of Jacob and Esau, but before this, we can see a bit of the repetition of "like father, like son" behavior. Isaac also told a "half-lie" to AviMelech,

"Riv'kah is my sister" well, the king found out, fortunately, nothing really bad happened, only that later on, out of jealousy, the men of AviMelech filled in the wells that Abraham had dug previously, we can see that Isaac was not a war-like man, he just dug them again, if there was strife, he would just move on. The name "AviMelech" means "My father is king". I think we can all agree that "Adonai-Elohim is AviMelech" since "He is OUR KING, since He is OUR FATHER, the correct word to use would be "Aveinu Malcheinu"

To Isaac and Rebecca, are born Jacob and Esau, two brothers, but distinct characters and destinies. One to look up to God, look for the things of God (even though he had to go through Uncle Laban's school of hard knocks) and to form "Am Yisrael" who lead to finally Mashiach Yeshua! (Baruch HaShem!)....and the other...to be a "man of the earth, an earthly man, with earthly/carnal desires, not desiring the "things of above" but the "things of the earth, material things, disinterested in God and the things of God.

If we know our Bible, we know their names; JACOB and ESAU, when we look at the Hebrew we see some interesting things;

JACOB is YA'AKOV from the root word "Akeiv" which means "heel" from a spiritual stand point, we can look at the "heel" as part of the foot, which is planted firmly on the ground, when one grows, a person grows "upward" from the feet upward, as did Ya'akov, it took some time, not to be a cheat and trickster, yet he did mature into "Israel" and fathered the 12 tribes.......on the other hand............

ESAU in Hebrew is ESAV, is also interesting, a similar word is "eisev" which means "grass" which grows from the earth. ESAV is also called EDOM, which points to "redness" a "red earth" EDOM is similar to ADAM, and ADAMAH, which also remind us of "dust, earth, red" Esau was a hunter, a man who knew the country, ran in the hills, hunted game yet Jacob was a "stay-at-home-and-help-mama" kind of guy. I mean, nothing wrong with that. We could compare Esau to a Hill-Billy mountaineer with a keg of whiskey hidden up there in the hills, a tobacco chewing, cussing dude who loves women and the things of the world, that was Esau. Jacob took advantage, and bought his "birth-right" using lentil stew, (which was also a red color stew) since Esau cared nothing for the birth-right, he sold it quite cheap, kinda like selling a 2015 Mercedes for a bicycle.

But we see that God has his perfect will in all of this, even in the womb, God told Rebecca

"two kinds of people will come out of the womb, the older will be stronger, yet the older will serve the young" we can see the two kinds of people/nations who came from Jacob and Esau, very interesting;

from JACOB: 12 tribes of Israel, David, Solomon, (who built the temple)...and finally Yeshua! and today we have modern Israel, and the descendants of Jacob who are like the "stars of Heaven" many live in Israel and many outside of Israel, scattered among the nations still, yet still maintaining their identity,

from ESAU: Edom, Amalek, Haman (the Agagite) Rome,(which destroyed the temple)

Even though they were stronger than Israel, TODAY...No one dares messes with Israel! nor the IDF! and in the future, ISRAEL will be the spot light, and "ALL NATIONS/PEOPLES WILL HONOR AND SERVE OUR LORD YESHUA, in ISRAEL.

We can look at the blessings of both Jacob and Esau, Jacob tricked and deceived his own father to get the blessing, even using the name of God deceitfully, guided by his mother Rebecca, did she do right? or wrong? I'll let you ponder on that one, but we will see later on that the "chickens come home to roost" as the saying goes" what "goes around comes around" but I'll save that for a later Parasha
____________________________________________ _______________________________

MALACHI 1:1-2:7

here the prophet quotes Moshe's words "YET JACOB I HAVE LOVED, BUT ESAU I HAVE HATED" one could ask, but why? isn't God a God of love and forgiveness? yes, but we must understand that the LORD GOD Adonai-Elohim-Yeshua who is the creator of all, can read into our minds, and knows the thoughts of our hearts, and could see "rejection" in the heart of Esau, so, before Adonai rejected Esau, (which is what the word "hate" means in this instance) Esau had made his mind up to reject God.

Are we offering polluted and foul sacrifices to our Holy God? today, we do not offer animal sacrifices, but sacrifices of "praise" and "good works (mitzvoth) and use of our spiritual gifts" do we use them the "best we can"? or "do we give HIM our leftovers, or "half-hearted" service, ?

____________________________________________ _____________________________

ROMANS 9:6-13

The chosen seed was/is through Isaac, through Jacob, Not all of Abraham's descendants are considered "B'nei Elohim" we see the descendants of Ishmael, the Arab nations, many of whom are part of Isis, Al Qaeda, Hamaz, etc, and HATE Israel, (yet not all arabs, many are full of love for Israel and many have accepted Yeshua as Messiah) But It isn't the blood line that determines our relationship with the KING of Kings and LORD of Lords, but our heart and spirit, we enter into a personal relationship with God through Yeshua by being "born again" in our spirit, and our renewed spirit directs our faith walk and that gives us all rights to being part of the "Commonwealth of Israel" as One (Echad) family of believers.

Shabbat shalom.................rabbi Ben Avraham

[HCabret]

This is extremely offensive to all Jewish people everywhere. Jesus is a false messiah.

[Whifflingpin]

"Jesus is a false messiah."
That is a statement deliberately intended to be offensive to all Christians everywhere.
Fortunately, few people, Christians, Jews or others, take offence at differences of belief or religious practice, otherwise multicultural societies and international relations would be impossible.

[HCabret]

"Jesus is a false messiah."
That is a statement deliberately intended to be offensive to all Christians everywhere.
Fortunately, few people, Christians, Jews or others, take offence at differences of belief or religious practice, otherwise multicultural societies and international relations would be impossible.

First of all, Christians and Christianity do not have a monopoly on the belief that Jesus is a messiah. All muslims also believe that Jesus is a messiah that his second coming is imminent.

This being said, all Jews reject everything about Jesus and all Jews believe that Jesus was just one of many false messiah claiments. If you think that Jewish was/is a messiah, then you are automatically not a Jew.

The OP's poster is an evangelical christian who is attempting to appropriate Jewish culture in order to force the conversion of the Jews to his religion. Jacob's posts are nothing less than anti-semitism and should not be tolerated on this site either by the owners or the other posters anymore than racism, homophobia, misogyny or any other kind of bigotry.

Jacob is NOT Jewish. He is a fundementalist evangelical christian, who is hell bent on converting all Jewish people to christianity.

[Eiseabhal]

He's trying to convert me not you. I don't mind him trying. He's interesting.

[HCabret]

He's trying to convert me not you. I don't mind him trying. He's interesting.

I do mind him trying. He's actively trying to destroy Judaism and force Jews to worship Jesus.

If you find Messianism interesting then fine, but this is not a good place for soapboxing.

Jacob is NOT a Jew.

[Whifflingpin]

"First of all, Christians and Christianity do not have a monopoly on the belief that Jesus is a messiah. All muslims also believe that Jesus is a messiah that his second coming is imminent."
So that just multiplies the offensiveness of the statement "Jesus is a false messiah." It does not mitigate it.

"Jacob is NOT a Jew."
JacobBenAvram described himself recently as Messianic-Jewish, as were the first followers of Jesus. Jesus was Jewish. His first followers and supporters were all Jewish. The greatest of the early Christian writers was Jewish. All of those were brought up as Jews and believed that Jesus was the messiah foretold in Jewish scriptures. Christianity is firmly based in Jewish thought and culture and arises out of it, rather than appropriates it. An impartial visitor from outer space would almost certainly conclude that, in religious terms, Christianity was a Jewish sect. JacobBenAvram quotes passages of Judaeo-Christian scriptures and comments on them, which, I understand, is the purpose of this forum.

If, and it is not for me to say, JacobBenAvram comes close to boundary of forum rules, then it is because he sometimes shifts from the literary/religious/moral sphere of the forum into the sphere of current politics. He conflates (if that's the word) the spiritual New Jerusalem with the political entity that has its capital in the geographical Jerusalem, implying thereby that Christians are bound to support the state of Israel. Whatever that is, it cannot be called anti-Semitic.

[HCabret]

"First of all, Christians and Christianity do not have a monopoly on the belief that Jesus is a messiah. All muslims also believe that Jesus is a messiah that his second coming is imminent."
So that just multiplies the offensiveness of the statement "Jesus is a false messiah." It does not mitigate it.

All Jews believe that Jesus was just one of many false messiah claiments. It is offensive to Jewish people to say that Jews think Jesus was a messiah.

Muslims and Christians are free to believe in which ever messiah they want, but that doesn't mean that Jews have to blindly follow along.

"Jacob is NOT a Jew."
JacobBenAvram described himself recently as Messianic-Jewish, as were the first followers of Jesus. Jesus was Jewish. His first followers and supporters were all Jewish. The greatest of the early Christian writers was Jewish. All of those were brought up as Jews and believed that Jesus was the messiah foretold in Jewish scriptures. Christianity is firmly based in Jewish thought and culture and arises out of it, rather than appropriates it. An impartial visitor from outer space would almost certainly conclude that, in religious terms, Christianity was a Jewish sect. JacobBenAvram quotes passages of Judaeo-Christian scriptures and comments on them, which, I understand, is the purpose of this forum.

Messianics are by definition NOT Jewish. The Supreme Court of Israel has ruled this explicitly.

The term "Judeo-Christian" is also extremely offensive to Jews. Why do Christians feel the need to appropriate Jewish culture? Christians reject large portions of Judaism and then get mad when people refuse to call refer to Christians as Jewish. Judaism and Christianity are two completely separate religions.

If, and it is not for me to say, JacobBenAvram comes close to boundary of forum rules, then it is because he sometimes shifts from the literary/religious/moral sphere of the forum into the sphere of current politics. He conflates (if that's the word) the spiritual New Jerusalem with the political entity that has its capital in the geographical Jerusalem, implying thereby that Christians are bound to support the state of Israel. Whatever that is, it cannot be called anti-Semitic.

Messianism is extremely anti-semitic. Their stated goal is to convert all Jewish people to christianity. Israel is a Jewish state, not a Christian state.



What is your true purpose here Jacob? Is it to proselytize your religion or is to discuss literature?

[Whifflingpin]

"Messianics are by definition NOT Jewish. The Supreme Court of Israel has ruled this explicitly."
But has God ruled it? The Supreme Court of Israel has no jurisdiction outside Israel, and, unless the Mods say otherwise, no right to tell the people of this forum what they may believe or what they may call themselves.

[HCabret]

"Messianics are by definition NOT Jewish. The Supreme Court of Israel has ruled this explicitly."
But has God ruled it? The Supreme Court of Israel has no jurisdiction outside Israel, and, unless the Mods say otherwise, no right to tell the people of this forum what they may believe or what they may call themselves.

Which god? Who other than the supreme court of Israel has any sort of authority in determining who is and isn't Jewish?

I am simply rebutting Jacob's antisemitic spam. Jacob has no right to tell Jews that they have to convert to christianity.

[Eiseabhal]

So he is an apostate. A dangerous criminal indeed. Do you feel yourself curiously drawn? Often the things we hate are but mirrors of ourselves. He seems to me to be well-read in what he is examining.

[HCabret]

So he is an apostate. A dangerous criminal indeed. Do you feel yourself curiously drawn? Often the things we hate are but mirrors of ourselves. He seems to me to be well-read in what he is examining.

He's an antisemite. He's trying to destroy judaism by converting all the jews to christianity.

He has the right to be as christian as he wants, but his antisemitic posts are extremely offensive.

[Eiseabhal]

All? The ambition of the rascal! And you can if you please ... refuse.

[prendrelemick]

Which god? Who other than the supreme court of Israel has any sort of authority in determining who is and isn't Jewish?

The individual concerned. Can any court tell a man what his beliefs are?

I am simply rebutting Jacob's antisemitic spam. Jacob has no right to tell Jews that they have to convert to christianity.

No, but he has the right to suggest it, and Jews have the right to say "No Thank you", and everybody can get on with their lives.

[HCabret]

All? The ambition of the rascal! And you can if you please ... refuse.

Why must he attempt to convert any Jew to christianity? Have Jews not suffered enough under the hands of christians?