Vengeance

[YesNo]

How do you know they or anyone who participated in vengeance was unhappy? You certainly haven't provided any support for your claims. As to the Israeli Holocaust survivors, I read many of their stated desire for the executions and many of their statements of relief and gratification after they were carried out

Nobody can know for sure if anybody was entirely unhappy or happy with their vengeance. If we need to do so to make either claim, the whole discussion is pointless.

I have mentioned the movie "Furious 7". It is one of the highest-grossing films worldwide which is why I keep bringing it up (http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/04/...film-worldwide). It has a vengeance theme. The bad guy is vengeful. The others show how to defend oneself without invoking revenge. The popularity of this movie implies that people generally perceive that vengeance is inappropriate and leads to unhappiness.

Another famous movie, "Munich" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0408306/), takes the vengeance theme deeper. In this movie the message is that one is defiled by succeeding at revenge. For me, the most memorable part of that movie was the way the female assassin caressed her cat goodbye after being fatally wounded by the "good" guys.

What these two movies show is that succeeding at vengeance is problematic. Vengeance defines the bad guy and defiles the good guy. I don't see this as a path to happiness.

Vengeance comes with other emotions tagging along in particular fear and negativity that stay in a person's mind because they cannot get satisfaction from revenge even when the bad guys have been executed or the cheating spouse has been abandoned. What some people want is no longer revenge (they have got their revenge), but freedom from vengeance, fear, defilement and negativity which the revenge has not cured but only heightened.

[Poetaster]

I'm seriously doubting you ever took an English class. I said "acts" as in "acts of vengeance" and you went off on a rant about "acts" within plays. Some words have two meanings, Poe. I'm sorry that reality jars you so.

It doesn't 'jar' me. It doesn't exactly bother me if you cannot write clearly, or consider an alternate, very different meaning of the word 'act' when talking about drama. This doesn't particularly bode well for your knowledge of Literature - never mind just English Literature.

The rest of what you wrote is just rambling. I completely showed you said what I claimed you did twice. All you can do is spurt out fallacious and hollow ad hominems that aren't worth my time.

You don't understand what an ad hominem is.

So, welcome to my ignore list and good luck with your "discussions."

Throwing your toys out of the pram. And editing your posts so they are more mean-spirited - showing your true colours. You are an intellectual coward.

[Pike Bishop]

I have mentioned the movie "Furious 7". It is one of the highest-grossing films world wide which I why I keep bringing it up (http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/04/...film-worldwide). It has a vengeance theme. The bad guy is vengeful. The others show how to defend oneself without invoking revenge. The popularity of this movie implies that people generally perceive that vengeance is inappropriate and leads to unhappiness.

Another famous movie, "Munich" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0408306/), takes the vengeance theme deeper. In this movie the message is that one is defiled by succeeding at revenge. For me, the most memorable part of that movie was the way the female assassin caressed her cat goodbye after being fatally wounded by the "good" guys.

What these two movies show is that succeeding at vengeance is problematic. Vengeance defines the bad guy and defiles the good guy. I don't see this as a path to happiness.

Vengeance comes with other emotions tagging along in particular fear and negativity that stay in a person's mind because they cannot get satisfaction from revenge even when the bad guys have been executed or the cheating spouse has been abandoned. What some people want is no longer revenge (they have got their revenge), but freedom from vengeance, fear, defilement and negativity which the revenge has not cured but only heightened.

1. No, the popularity of the movie implies and shows people are a big fan of the franchise, love car chases and beautiful people, and enjoy a good time at the movies. Your imposing your own morals on to hundreds of millions of people is both critically solipsistic and unsupported by facts.

2. Munich just shows a particular example of problems with vengeance. The problems they faced can be found in police and military justice that have no vengeance involved as well. So, again, you are taking the anecdotal and trying to make it the exemplary. I hope you know that is not a logical, rational mode of forming an argument. It's like if I said I have two examples of vengeance where nothing went wrong and said that proves vengeance always works. Logic doesn't work that way.

3. Again you make a blanket statement that has no basis in truth. Billions of people throughout history have had vengeance. It is again solipsistic of you to assert that vengeance always comes with "other emotions tagging along in particular fear and negativity." You don't come close to having proof or support of that.

[bounty]

So, welcome to my ignore list and good luck with your "discussions."

can you please, pretty please with sugar on top, put me on your ignore list too??

[Pike Bishop]

No chance, Bounty. Your posts are far too (inadvertently) humorous for me...

[Delta40]

The only one who made preposterous claims was you. And you do have to back up your offensive claims blaming Holocaust victims vengeance against Nazis for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict if you want to support them as true. However, since they are not true, you clearly can't do so. So, your making those claims against those Holocaust victims is truly sad. And I introduced nothing to correctly "accuse" you; I didn't need to. Your claims were ridiculous and callous, and I just correctly pointed out they were.

As to the discussion being over, I'm fine with that. We can move on.

You seem like a particularly educated person so I'm disappointed to find that once again you are making a false claim against me. I believe that is three times now. I agree with other posters that it is emotional. Since I don't know you I can only assume it has something to do with you personally and as you identified yourself as Jewish, I imagine your connection to a subject like the holocaust might hold more currency for you and it is possible that you may draw sweeping conclusions. I never blamed the Jewish people at all but I did express my concerns about inter generational suffering and I must say here as a mother nurturing children, I would be most likely to think that way (the reason why I entered this discussion). You on the other hand, have done nothing but insult and accuse me, a person who in the aftermath of destruction, would only care about the children.

How dare you flaunt righteous vengeance in my face and when I make further enquiries from the position of a nurturing being, you adopt an almighty defense and spew out vile rhetoric in the hope that I'll tip toe off because your feelings are hurt?

I told you earlier that I don't fare well in serious discussions and I was trying to understand the topic. All you have done so far is done nothing short of accuse me of anti-semitism. Is that really the best you can do as an individual who is so obviously well read?

For those of us who are not, you are neither a teacher or mentor and I am no further in my education.

Have a pleasant day.

[Scheherazade]

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Since this thread has moved away from its original intent,

it will now be closed.

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