does religion/God give people a voice?

[SentimentalSlop]

Have done, several times. It's slop. And I've never even heard of evilbible until I read your post.



I do know all that, but to me, it's just cherry-picking. You cherry-pick that bit because it suits, yet in my lifetime, there was a period most Catholics believed it was a sin to eat meat on Fridays. The RCC has had 2000 years to cherry-pick its way to perfection of doctrine, yet it still fails, and this is why:

Since you avoided the point, I will reiterate that the bible does not justify any way at all of avoiding Jesus' teachings on violence and war, yet Augustine's teachings on "just war" are established Catholic doctrine. The RCC listens to its god when it suits, and shuts its ears at other times.




The proof is in their lack of action.

Despite immense internal pressures not to, the RCC has actually changed over the centuries, or were you unaware The Inquisition had ended?

Not one of those changes has ever shown an acceptance that women are equal to men. They are enforced second-class citizens within the church every bit as much as some poor woman in a burqa is a captive of her owner, the man.



Somehow conflict? They are exact opposites, although I will note the ongoing investigation by RCC experts looking for creation in evolution. It is yet another example of cherry-picking, or did I miss the passage in Ephesians where it was explained that Genesis is just allegory?



Your own comment - you said "...the Church believes men and women are different. Not unequal, but different. We were created differently and have different roles."

You are claiming the church treats men & women differently because they're different. That is what sexism is all about - treating people differently because they are different.

The RCC allows women no voice whatsoever. And it's not just not allowing women to be priests, or ensuring that the entire management layer of the church is male, it extends to things like residence in the Vatican City itself.

1) Yeah, I'm so sure you've read the entire bible several times. Seriously, the people who cherry-pick the Bible the most are atheists. I haven't met an atheist who has actually read the bible and understood it. They always have a lot to say about something they don't know about.

2) I find it funny that you think a 4 chapter explanation on why we're no longer subject to OT laws is cherry-picking. There's biblical evidence right there. It explains it all quite clearly.

3) Women are not second-class citizens in the Church. There are just as many restrictions on men as there are on women. The RCC recognizes and embraces these differences. I have never met a Catholic woman who feels oppressed by Catholic doctrine. And for the women who do, they should just leave the RCC because the teachings are not going to change. There will never be a female priest and abortion will never be okay. As a woman, I'm more than glad about that. I'd leave the Church immediately if it became so liberal.

4) And what the hell does that website prove? The Vatican is small, occupied mostly by cardinals, clergy, and Swiss guards. Obviously there will be more men than women. There is almost no women to speak of. And as for the whole voting thing for the pope, only cardinals are allowed to vote, and cardinals are men because they're either cardinal deacons, cardinal priests, or cardinal bishops. Why would they need women to vote? No one else is allowed to vote on it, not even other men.

[Delta40]

There was a time when women weren't allowed to vote at all. I trust had you been around then you would have been a staunch advocate for upholding the patriarchy. Change in societal attitudes demonstrates our collective progressive growth. As religion fails to evolve, I cannot in good moral conscience support it.

[SentimentalSlop]

Yeah, we're progressively getting more stupid.

[Delta40]

Well that's so adult of you and responsible but then you don't have to own any of what goes on in the world while you have a sky fairy do you? Sorry I forgot. You're forgiven. I'll carry on being the adult... learning from our pathetic ignorance.

[SentimentalSlop]

Acting like a spiteful little child doesn't seem very mature to me. I have to own up to a lot more than you do--a hell of a lot more.

[Melanie]

SentimentalSlop is absolutely correct regarding Christian matters.

As religion fails to evolve, I cannot in good moral conscience support it.

Could you please clarify and back this up with something. Fails in what way? Evolve in what way? Are you talking about a specific church? The Bible evolved from Old Testament to New Testament but once it was finished, nothing needed to be added or subtracted. It's the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. It never gets old. That's why it's been the #1 Bestseller every year, year after year. Timeless. Amazing isn't it. No other book can claim that.

[Delta40]

You're wrong but I will say sentimental slop suits you very well :-)

I would much rather go through my life looking for collective solutions to problems in this society - because when it comes to the negative, we have to be accountable. When a child is tortured, it isn't good enough to spout out: God needed another Angel. What kind of God allows such horrors on earth and I don't want to hear your piss weak justifications. Human beings own what they do and they are just as responsible for coming up with the solutions. Religion is a get out of jail free card for those who want to separate themselves from taking ownership. What a 'nice' idea that there is a 'parent' in the sky to look over you so you don't have to be a gwown up, be 100% accountable and (shock horror) diverse to alternative ideas and concepts. Sure, you don't mind taking credit for all the joy and love but when it comes to doing anything about hardship and horror, well it's all in Big Daddy's hands and he has a plan which it isn't for us to question.

I would say grow up but of course you're welcome to your belief so long as you don't actually harm anyone emotionally, mentally or physically because of it and I think I'm justified in making such statements. You're right that people from all walks kill but there is no documented slaughter on record from atheist fervor. Plenty of religious ones though and you're religious - so how on earth can you be trusted?

[Delta40]

SentimentalSlop is absolutely correct regarding Christian matters.


Could you please clarify and back this up with something. Fails in what way? Evolve in what way? Are you talking about a specific church? The Bible evolved from Old Testament to New Testament but once it was finished, nothing needed to be added or subtracted. It's the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. It never gets old. That's why it's been the #1 Bestseller every year, year after year. Timeless. Amazing isn't it. No other book can claim that.

Agatha Christie is the next best seller. Amazing isn't it? Once it was finished, nothing needed to be added or subtracted. It's the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. It never gets old. What is your point?

[Delta40]

An unchanging religious text is NOT a good thing. The FACT that the bible doesn't change is one of the major problems with all ancient religious texts. The slavery thing again, for example. If god has somehow changed his position and now abhors slavery, where's the new and improved Bible 2.0? If he no longer wants us to comply with the most horrible of the 613 biblical laws, why hasn't he let us know?

These verses SHOULD change, the fact that they haven't is a bad thing.

Also, the Bible HAS changed, many times. It was compiled over hundreds of years by many, many anonymous writers, all with different motivations (which is why there are such a staggering number of contradictions in it).The bible didn't even specifically mention homosexuality until the 19th century, when the catholic church made it a priority.

The fact that a book SELLS WELL doesn't mean it's contents are true. Harry Potter dominated the best sellers lists for many years, that doesn't mean there's an invisible village filled with wizards called Hogsmeade somewhere in England.

Basically, you either follow your ancient text to the letter or you don't follow it at all but as has been shown time and time again, you adjust it to suit your modern living and new humane moral standards and then swear - well, on the bible that you're a Christian doing God's will when you plainly are not.

[mal4mac]

1) Yeah, I'm so sure you've read the entire bible several times. Seriously, the people who cherry-pick the Bible the most are atheists. I haven't met an atheist who has actually read the bible and understood it. They always have a lot to say about something they don't know about.

This is the same attitude of the priests in the old Roman Catholic church to their congregation. It was in Latin, so the hoi polloi couldn't understand it, so the priests could control understanding. Now Christians say atheists can't understand the Bible in a desperate attempt to maintain a monopoly on understanding. They can't provide sensible argument against atheist positions so they deny that atheists have understanding. But we aren't illiterate medieval peasants and we aren't going to fall down when opposed by such intellectual arrogance. Here's a challenge - point to a few verses of the Bible that bolster your belief in a Christian idea, and you think atheists do not understand, then explain them to us in a way that you think will help us understand.

3) Women are not second-class citizens in the Church. There are just as many restrictions on men as there are on women. The RCC recognizes and embraces these differences. I have never met a Catholic woman who feels oppressed by Catholic doctrine.

You must move in very small circles! Try reading "The Spiral Staircase" by Karen Armstrong. On becoming a nun, after seven years and a breakdown, she applied for a dispensation from her vows and returned to the world, "obscurely broken and damaged". And what about the Magdalene asylums in Ireland? There's real oppression!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_asylum

[Emil Miller]

[QUOTE=Delta40;1242099 Harry Potter dominated the best sellers lists for many years, that doesn't mean there's an invisible village filled with wizards called Hogsmeade somewhere in England. [/QUOTE]

But it does mean that there are libraries all over England filled with hogwash.

[Delta40]

But it does mean that there are libraries all over England filled with hogwash.

lol. Shhh not so loud in case a molesting librarian hears you....

[Emil Miller]

lol. Shhh not so loud in case a molesting librarian hears you....

I hope she does.

[Delta40]

Wow! Even I'd hand in my book late to receive the reprimand...

[mona amon]

Ooh Harry Potter posts! What a refreshing change to the rest of the Hogwash on this thread.

SentimentalSlop is absolutely correct regarding Christian matters.

She's absolutely wrong, in my humble christian opinion, but I have to go now. I'll elaborate later.