Ted Hughes

[prendrelemick]

Fifth. Thats one I haven't seen before. A very sexy poem though. They are creating each other as they make love. It reminds me of something E B Browning said about never really existing until she married Robert.


I'd be interested to know what you like about The Bull Moses. For me once again, he seems to be relating an experience of my own, looking into a bulls eye as a boy. I find that often happens with Hughes' earlier stuff.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Fifth. Thats one I haven't seen before. A very sexy poem though. They are creating each other as they make love. It reminds me of something E B Browning said about never really existing until she married Robert.


I'd be interested to know what you like about The Bull Moses. For me once again, he seems to be relating an experience of my own, looking into a bulls eye as a boy. I find that often happens with Hughes' earlier stuff.

I just find it so vivid and alive. For example in the following lines:

...But the warm weight of his breathing,
The ammoniac reek of his litter, the hotly-tongued
Mash of his cud, steamed against me.

Hughes also gives the bull a quiet sense of majesty in his leisurely ways:

In the locked black of his powers. He came strolling gently back,
Paused neither toward the pig-pens on his right,
Nor toward the cow-byres on his left: something
Deliberate in his leisure, some beheld future
Founding in his quiet.

There is an obvious respect towards the creature which I find quiet touching, but it is that vivid scene of the boy leaning over describing the scent of the bull that's just great - "The ammoniac reek of his litter, the hotly-tongued/Mash of his cud, steamed against me," steamed there is particularly useful I find.

"Pike" is another good one. I can certainly relate to these from fishing for them as a younger kid. The first stanza:

Pike, three inches long, perfect
Pike in all parts, green tigering the gold.
Killers from the egg: the malevolent aged grin.
They dance on the surface among the flies.

That "malevolent aged grin" and the "green tigering the gold" is well done. There are countless other examples from several of his poems too.

The biography came today which I have just started until "jobs" got in the way. I'm going back to it in a bit and alternating between that and the poems.

[LitNetIsGreat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuY-7...eature=related
Here's Ted Hughes briefly explaining about The Thought Fox and reading the poem. It is also covered in his biography.

I have always like Hughes' reading of poetry. I once had a collection of his, By Heart, 100 poems to learn by heart or something like that on CD or tape, I don't know where that ended up but it was good.

[prendrelemick]

Have you Birthday Letters? That is a very significant collection I think. It commemerates, explains and documents his relationship with Plath.

After her suicide he was blamed for her death - particularly by The Feminist movement. Her Gravestone was constantly defaced (she is buried in this parish) by having the "Hughes" name chiselled off. (Read "The Dogs Are Eating Your Mother" from BL ) He was portrayed as an uncaring brute, and refused to defend himself. I think there is a strong case that he prolonged her life through the relationship, she had tried suicide before, but who can say.

Anyway, Birthday Letters ended his silence on the affair and effectively answered most of his critics. It is a collection of poems written over twenty five years, nearly all adressed to Plath. It is intimate and candid and recounts moments of happiness and tenderness, bleakness and despair. Of course it is all written from Hughes' point-of-view, but he is a poet first and foremost and an honest one I think.

What I would like to do is to read a good Life and Works of Plath and refer to Birthday Letters at the same time, just to see what she was producing at this time.


EDIT: By the way, which biography have you got?

[Twitter]

Relax, I think we all know what you and Tony think, you and Tony, you and Tony. His Majesty isn't offended - THIS time. So watch it, pal. Plenty of extra licking next time to keep him cozy.

[mal4mac]

I thought his translation of Aeschylus' Oresteia was very powerful, and compact.

Compare his:

She speaks like a man.
We have proof enough
To thank the gods.
At last we can rejoice.
Zeus, high God.

To an (anonymous) literal translation:

Lady, you speak as wisely as a prudent man. And, for my part, now that I have listened to your certain proofs, I prepare to address due prayers of thanksgiving to the gods; for a success has been achieved that well repays the toil.

Note how Hughes trusts the reader - we can guess "prudent" is intended. Also, he chops excess verbiage ("And, for my part....") Succinct and powerful rules!

[LitNetIsGreat]

Have you Birthday Letters? That is a very significant collection I think. It commemerates, explains and documents his relationship with Plath.

After her suicide he was blamed for her death - particularly by The Feminist movement. Her Gravestone was constantly defaced (she is buried in this parish) by having the "Hughes" name chiselled off. (Read "The Dogs Are Eating Your Mother" from BL ) He was portrayed as an uncaring brute, and refused to defend himself. I think there is a strong case that he prolonged her life through the relationship, she had tried suicide before, but who can say.

Anyway, Birthday Letters ended his silence on the affair and effectively answered most of his critics. It is a collection of poems written over twenty five years, nearly all adressed to Plath. It is intimate and candid and recounts moments of happiness and tenderness, bleakness and despair. Of course it is all written from Hughes' point-of-view, but he is a poet first and foremost and an honest one I think.

What I would like to do is to read a good Life and Works of Plath and refer to Birthday Letters at the same time, just to see what she was producing at this time.


EDIT: By the way, which biography have you got?

Yes I know all about the Birthday Letters, but unfortunately my collection doesn't include any from it. I nearly bought it yesterday actually, but ended up ordering a mammoth W H Auden as that is what I plan on reading next.

The biography I'm reading is written by Elaine Feinstein. I'm about halfway through it as I am with the poems. I wasn't as keen on Crow (1970) as a collection - I've just never taken to Hughes' Crow poems. Lupercal (1956) has been my favourite collection so far. Poems from Lupercal I enjoyed include Pike, Hawk Roosting, The Bull Moses, View of a Pig and An Otter. I'm currently reading from Remains of Elmet (1979) and then Moortown Diary (1989) which is the one you mentioned last week.

I also watched the film Sylvia last night which I'd seen before a while back. It struck me as very anti-Hughes though I must say.

[prendrelemick]

I have that biography.

I think he took a step far beyond my ability to understand with Crow. Also I seem to remember he never really finished it properly.

If you are reading the Remains of Elmet with the photos by Fay Godwin, there is a picture of one of our sheep in it - with two lambs by a broken wall. As for the poetry, I read it so long ago I can't remember much - a bad sign.

I really hope you like Moortown, it is probably the first poetry I ever felt a connection to as an adult.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Damn you keep throwing in these great connections! My collection though doesn't include all the poems from each release, only the main ones, 300+ pages, so I don't have your sheep in there unfortunately.

Yes the crow stuff I find difficult. I am almost starting the Moortown Diary collection, which I am looking forward to and hoping it will be more like his earlier stuff. Elmet I have found is so/so at best - of course this is just a personal view on it, I'm not speaking as a great poetic critic, I'm just going on my personal taste, even so I don't think it is his best by a long shot. From a selfish point of view, I just wish he would have stuck to nature which is where I think he is best, or at least this is what I like best.

Just looking at Moortown, my collection only has 12 poems in from it! Duh. I need another collection.

[prendrelemick]

I thought his translation of Aeschylus' Oresteia was very powerful, and compact.

Compare his:

She speaks like a man.
We have proof enough
To thank the gods.
At last we can rejoice.
Zeus, high God.

To an (anonymous) literal translation:

Lady, you speak as wisely as a prudent man. And, for my part, now that I have listened to your certain proofs, I prepare to address due prayers of thanksgiving to the gods; for a success has been achieved that well repays the toil.

Note how Hughes trusts the reader - we can guess "prudent" is intended. Also, he chops excess verbiage ("And, for my part....") Succinct and powerful rules!

I have only read a very small amount of his translations. It was so long ago that I in my ignorance thought they were original works and remember wondering what it was all about. From the above you can see his influence on Seamus Heany.

[LitNetIsGreat]

I've finished reading my Ted Hughes collection. Overall I found a lot to be pleased about, especially the nature poems. Some of these I really enjoyed. I wasn't too fused by some of his more obscurer pieces, but overall I will return to Hughes again for sure.

[prendrelemick]

A bit of an update here. I've just read this interview with Olwyn Hughes - Ted's sister. There is some interesting stuff about Sylvia Plath.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2013...tor?CMP=twt_gu

[Simon K-S]

Hi -

Would it be OK to quote this? I'm writing a book on language, in which Ted Hughes will play a fair sized part - with, I hope, at least some chance of eventual publication. The working title is 'Strong Language'.

'Wind' is a great poem. Is the film on Youtube?

Please get back to me if you want any more detail on what I'm doing.

Best wishes

Simon

[LitNetIsGreat]

Hi -

Would it be OK to quote this? I'm writing a book on language, in which Ted Hughes will play a fair sized part - with, I hope, at least some chance of eventual publication. The working title is 'Strong Language'.

'Wind' is a great poem. Is the film on Youtube?

Please get back to me if you want any more detail on what I'm doing.

Best wishes

Simon

Hi, what do you want to quote exactly? I don't mind if it is anything I've mentioned but you'd have to check with the others if you want to include their comments and obviously we don't own the links, so you'll have to check the source for those as well.

I'm not sure if the wind is on Youtube, just try a general search and you might find it.

Good luck with your project.

[Simon K-S]

Hi, thanks for getting back to me. This is the first time I've tried to use any kind of online forum, and I'm struggling a little. I meant to send the message to Prendrelmick. Here is the quote:

'As a boy he spent a lot of his time out in the countryside around here with his brother. On one occasion when he was camping in one of our fields, he looked up and saw some horses on the skyline at dawn and felt moved. He later described that place as sacred and said everything he later became stems from that moment. He was about six at the time.'

And here's my (draft) footnote:

'From a posting on Literature Network Forums ... . There is no reference to this incident in Poetry in the Making, or anywhere else I've come across, but it rings true when set against other reminiscences.'

Best wishes

Simon