Self-Mutilation as form of body modification/meditation.

[Delta40]

I don't see why the OP's question: Is self-mutilation a form of body modification? And can or should it be considered a healthy, somewhat meditating, form of retaining more dangerous outlets of negative mental states from manifesting? isn't a respectable enough question for me to address the issues involving self harm in a serious discussion forum. I also don't see many other posts commenting on it.

Besides, after reading the exchanges on this thread and others, I'm genuinely reluctant to provide yet another boxing ring for members that appear to do nothing else but thrash out their views at the cost of others for no other reason than having the satisfaction of stomping over other people.

[Haunted]

I don't see why the OP's question: Is self-mutilation a form of body modification? And can or should it be considered a healthy, somewhat meditating, form of retaining more dangerous outlets of negative mental states from manifesting? isn't a respectable enough question for me to address the issues involving self harm in a serious discussion forum. I also don't see many other posts commenting on it.

Besides, after reading the exchanges on this thread and others, I'm genuinely reluctant to provide yet another boxing ring for members that appear to do nothing else but thrash out their views at the cost of others for no other reason than having the satisfaction of stomping over other people.

I meant to comment on your posts before all this distraction. I cant imagine you going through this with your daughter. IT's most definitely not healthy.

Don't know if she will outgrow it as she reaches adulthood. It's a form of release for teenage angst but to a harmful extreme. I believe she also has OCD. Is she taking meds for the disorder?

[KCurtis]

Just to clarify my earlier assertions: I do not think it's good or healthy for a person to use self-mutilation as a coping mechanism for depression. Other than the obvious possible results of real harm (even if it's a staff infection from a small cut) it just doesn't seem like it's in any way healthy. It's just a gut feeling.

What I don't have a problem with is masochism used to derive pleasure rather than to alleviate emotional pain. I'm talking about the guys who go to dominatrixes to get whipped and have hot wax poured on them. If that's what they get off on, more power to 'em. I don't see any harm in that.

As far as people wanting to amputate themselves, there something wrong there . . . but whether or not someone should be able to do it is a more complicated matter--probably moreso than any of us are intelligent enough to understand.

What about this guy:



Should that be allowed?

I want to know where this guy works.

[stlukesguild]

I usually ignore your personal insults towards me and I never retort with my own, because I know that your agression simply stems from the fact that you don't like me (which dates back to, and is a direct result of, the debate in which you argued that everyone should be forced to turn their radios down during the day because you don't like their music, haha!). However, in this case your attempts to belittle my point on the grounds that I'm from from Northern Canada is pretty racist...

I'm sorry to disappoint, but I have far more important things to do and far more pressing issues in my life that to take it upon myself to hate some unknown person on the internet because of a dispute some months or a year ago... although if it makes you feel more important to believe that I really consider your opinion of such value, please feel free to continue on in your illusions.

SLG (quoted)The comparison of pathological behaviors with having a pint of two of beer is beyond all rational thinking.).

You're the one comparing "cutting" ie. self-injury as a coping mechanism for extreme psychological stress with sadomasochistic pleasure-from-pain sexual activity. There's nothing "pathological" about a fetish like sadomasochism.OLOR] Everyone else on this thread seems clever enough to make that distinction.

Had you read my post more carefully you might have noticed that I clearly differentiated sadomasochistic behaviors from the pathological self-harm:

"There are cultural traditions involving what others might term "self mutilation" or "body alteration". These certainly include tattoos, scarification, piercings, etc... These are different from slicing one's wrist with a razor and any person in a professional position (teachers, councilors, nurses, doctors, therapists, etc... as well as parents) could (and likely would) be held legally responsible for not reporting such behavior which is commonly associated with extreme depression, mental illness, and suicidal tendencies."

I suspect, however, that reading comprehension has never been your strong suit. As for the notion that everyone is "clever enough" to make the differentiation between sadomasochistic behavior and pathological self harm... it seems that perhaps you are slightly challenged here in comparison to the accepted norm... at least according to medical, psychiatric, and legal norms.

I will state the reality once more for the sake of argument:

Any person in a professional position (teachers, councilors, nurses, doctors, therapists, etc... as well as parents) could (and likely would) be held legally responsible for not reporting such behaviors as cutting oneself or burning oneself which is commonly associated with extreme depression, mental illness, and suicidal tendencies. This is for the simple reason that such behaviors are linked with a large percentage of suicides. Various forms of self-harm including skin-cutting, burning, scratching, banging or hitting body parts, interfering with wound healing, hair-pulling, and the ingestion of toxic substances or objects are commonly classified among medical and psychiatric professionals as a symptom of borderline personality disorders and often related to other mental disorders including depression, anxiety disorders, substance abuse, eating disorders, post-traumatic stress disorder, and schizophrenia. This would seem to be enough for the normal, thinking human being to look upon self-harm or self-mutilation with a degree of concern.

(By the way, alcoholism and behaviors associated with substance abuse and eating disorders are usually not considered "self-harm" under medical guidelines because the resulting tissue damage is ordinarily an unintentional side effect... but certainly, excessive alcoholism and drug abuse are equally of concern.)

I'll argue against pseudo-morality based infringements of human freedom until I die...

The reality is that your arguments have nothing to do with "human freedom"... at least not outside of some idealized fantasy world, and most of us live in a world of awkward reality. As Neely suggests, I also suspect your arguments are simply made for the sake of an obsession with "winning" the argument... regardless of what is being argued for or against.

Hahahaha! You've been waiting a long-*** time to get that off your chest, haven't you sweetheart? I don't think I've pwned you in over a year! Have you been waiting in the wings all this time until my next flame-war with a fellow litnetter?

A comment like this would seem to prove that both Neely and I are onto something. It's not about arguing a point... coming to a consensus or even a balanced compromise based upon logic and rational thought. That would assume that your aim is uncovering the truth or some semblance thereof, when your stated aim is nothing more "pawning" your opponent. To achieve such an end you bombard the site with incoherent ramblings and profanity. Unfortunately, if you are actually going to succeed at pawning anyone here you'll need to display a degree of logical thought... or at least some modicum of wit. I have yet to see much of either.

[Haunted]

I want to know where this guy works.

It would be interesting to see how he can get by airport security checks.

Have you seen the "Horsemen"? I think it's that movie, there are people who have wires thread through their skin, an extreme form of body piercing. But it doesn't end there, they are suspended from the ceiling with these wires and only with their skin holding up their bodies. eeek

[Alexander III]

Getting a little personal, don't you think? Usually when someone loses an argument they resort to personal insults.

Indeed, they do:


"For some, they didn't "descend" this low. This is their level......"

"Sadly it's my observation that certain people never grow up, in mentality, sensitivity and sensibility. "

"Some certain individual really needs anger management."


"Litnet should screen people for rabies before letting them in. Where are the animal control people when we need them?"




You are quite right, if anything it is the sign of a vindictive and limited character.

[Delta40]

I meant to comment on your posts before all this distraction. I cant imagine you going through this with your daughter. IT's most definitely not healthy.

Don't know if she will outgrow it as she reaches adulthood. It's a form of release for teenage angst but to a harmful extreme. I believe she also has OCD. Is she taking meds for the disorder?

Thankfully she doesn't cut anymore. She was resistant to counselling too at the time but I made up a safe self harm box which included paprika and chilli powder, vicks vapour rub and fine line red ink line gel pens which really hurt like hell when you press them into your skin - plus you get the blood effect. The other stuff, she could stick up her nose, in her eyes or any orifice she chose to inflict pain.

Her story is little more complicated and it wasn't about OCD. She's an adult now, a working public servant in a settled relationship who is in therapy. I'm fortunate that we are close.

She is really mad at some of the generalized comments people make about self-harm having been down that road herself.

[Emil Miller]

[QUOTE=Mutatis-Mutandi;1115922]

If anyone is a troll here, it's been Emil (not that I think he has been), as all he has done is post pictures and smartass comments.

That's because there's no point trying to argue rationally with an attention seeking individual who's talking nonsense anyway, but if someone behaves like a demented harridan on the forum and the moderators allow it to go on unpunished, I am not going to stand by and see perfectly legitimate members insulted and sworn at, without passing comment. This is supposed to be a forum for reasoned debate and, while I have often tried to lighten the discussions with some joking references to stop us from taking ourselves too seriously, there is a difference between that and behaviour of someone who obviously has a severe personality disorder.

If you have a huge problem with something, report it to the moderators.

Point taken.

[KCurtis]

It would be interesting to see how he can get by airport security checks.

Have you seen the "Horsemen"? I think it's that movie, there are people who have wires thread through their skin, an extreme form of body piercing. But it doesn't end there, they are suspended from the ceiling with these wires and only with their skin holding up their bodies. eeek

I can't look at that, and I really have an aversion to extreme body piercing too. But ofcourse people have free will and should. I really do wonder where that guy works.

[MarkBastable]

That's because there's no point trying to argue rationally with an attention seeking individual who's talking nonsense anyway...

Quite sincerely, that's exactly the attitude I take towards you.

while I have often tried to lighten the discussions with some joking references to stop us from taking ourselves too seriously, there is a difference between that and behaviour of someone who obviously has a severe personality disorder.

Wow. It's uncanny.

[Haunted]

Thankfully she doesn't cut anymore. She was resistant to counselling too at the time but I made up a safe self harm box which included paprika and chilli powder, vicks vapour rub and fine line red ink line gel pens which really hurt like hell when you press them into your skin - plus you get the blood effect. The other stuff, she could stick up her nose, in her eyes or any orifice she chose to inflict pain.

Her story is little more complicated and it wasn't about OCD. She's an adult now, a working public servant in a settled relationship who is in therapy. I'm fortunate that we are close.

She is really mad at some of the generalized comments people make about self-harm having been down that road herself.

Wow, that's a relief. I do think it's a passing phase, and isn't it great to hear she's fully functional now.

I relate because I'm a minor case of her. I don't cut but I do things that induce blood to "bead" to distract me from the real problems. It started when I was little. It's OCD too.

I can't look at that, and I really have an aversion to extreme body piercing too. But ofcourse people have free will and should. I really do wonder where that guy works.

I guess we can rule out the TSA

[LitNetIsGreat]

If anyone is a troll here, it's been Emil (not that I think he has been), as all he has done is post pictures and smartass comments.

But was it Emil who posted an image of a gigantic straw man?

......................................

On a more sober note, I think that the insults in this thread has gone on for far too long and should come to an end now.

[Delta40]

I want to know where this guy works.

The Inland Revenue?

[Emil Miller]

Quite sincerely, that's exactly the attitude I take towards you.

You still don't appear to have got my earlier message. So let's put the issue beyond doubt.

Exit pursued by an incorrigible bore who's a bit slow on the uptake.

See? All you need is caring, involved support.

Oh, and incidentally, there is no such word as 'unspecial' as used in your nitpicking of Darcy 88's recent post. Perhaps you should stick to things that you know although I realise that would limit your contribution somewhat.

[MarkBastable]

...........

'imitation is the sincerest form of flattery' as the old saying goes.