I was bringing it up as a point of discussion Alex. I'd you read my post, NO WHERE do I claim it should or should not be allowed. You have a habit of jumping to conclusions. You need to work on that.Originally Posted by Alexander III
And, I do believe that numbskull has every right to do what he likes, as do any of the weirdoes that pop up when you do a Google image search of "body modification."
You're are being irrational here Neely. After all, if paedophiles rape children other than your own, why should you care what other people do, it doesn't hurt you does it? You shouldn't care less what others do.
I know I shouldn't take the p**s, because it's all too easy, but it's difficult to resist.I'm sorry, but I am ROTFL here. I can't help it, if you look closely at these posts you will probably find the humor too, or maybe I am "off" a bit. And, btw, surgeons, at least in my country, don't cut off limbs for no apparent reason.
JuniperWolf, I don't know if you realize how funny you are. I love your "as longs as they aren't running around cutting other people without permission".
You're right, they aren't the same: the difference between damaging your internal organs with poison and damaging your external organ with a controlled (not suicide intended!) blade is that damaging your internal organs is more more likely to kill you. Their skin can take it, it's much better at healing itself than your liver (although your liver is very good at healing itself too, just not as good as skin - this is what skin was built for, before our kushy post-industrial lifestyle we evolved in situations under which we were opened up daily).
Really I don't care what you say one way or the other (and I'll tell you why in a minute), but you really should simply tolerate the existance of sadomasochism and I still can't believe that you haven't come to that conclusion on your own. It should be obvious that you'll never change anyone's sexual tendancies to suit you, you'll just make people think less of you because they feel that you're looking down on others when it's clearly not your right to do so. You're not affecting the behaviour of the people you scoff at in the slightest, you're only making people feel sympathetic towards masochists for having to deal with such closed-mindedness in the first place (which is exactly why I don't care if you're closed minded - you're simply helping the people you're trying to repress). You're also just managing to cause yourself grief by getting worked up over the consentual acts of adults which is entirely permitted and really has nothing at all to do with you. Expressing contempt is, in this case, illogical and entirely useless behaviour, not to mention counter-productive as it is only likely to bring contempt onto you for the whole "I know best" routine (and this has already been demonstrated by other posters on this thread, excluding Emil who I think would agree with just about anything to take a few cheap shots at the people he doesn't like).
JuniperWolf, I don't know if you realize how funny you are. I love your "as longs as they aren't running around cutting other people without permission".
*takes bow*
Last edited by JuniperWoolf; 02-15-2012 at 06:45 AM.
__________________
"Personal note: When I was a little kid my mother told me not to stare into the sun. So once when I was six, I did. At first the brightness was overwhelming, but I had seen that before. I kept looking, forcing myself not to blink, and then the brightness began to dissolve. My pupils shrunk to pinholes and everything came into focus and for a moment I understood. The doctors didn't know if my eyes would ever heal."
-Pi
I don't think all piercings, tattoos, and other forms of body modification can just be chalked up to a "look at me attitude." They're just another form of self-expression, and tattoos can be quite beautiful and artistic. If tattoos and piercing are just a way to grab attention and nothing more, I guess pretty much all art is.
And, what's it matter if it's been done before? Since when has that been a valid reason not to do something?
Originally Posted by Neely
Yes because having a few quiet pints is obviously the same thing as slashing yourself with a razor blade or putting knives through your nose! What a hypocrite I am!
You're right, they aren't the same: the difference between damaging your internal organs with poison and damaging your external organ with a controlled (not suicide intended!) blade is that damaging your internal organs is more more likely to kill you. Their skin can take it, it's much better at healing itself than your liver (although your liver is very good at healing itself too, just not as good as skin - this is what skin was built for, before our kushy post-industrial lifestyle we evolved in situations under which we were opened up daily).
Really I don't care what you say one way or the other (and I'll tell you why in a minute), but you really should simply tolerate the existance of sadomasochism and I still can't believe that you haven't come to that conclusion on your own. It should be obvious that you'll never change anyone's sexual tendancies to suit you, you'll just make people think less of you because they feel that you're looking down on others when it's clearly not your right to do so. You're not affecting the behaviour of the people you scoff at in the slightest, you're only making people feel sympathetic towards masochists for having to deal with such closed-mindedness in the first place (which is exactly why I don't care if you're closed minded - you're simply helping the people you're trying to repress). You're also just managing to cause yourself grief by getting worked up over the consentual acts of adults which is entirely permitted and really has nothing at all to do with you. Expressing contempt is, in this case, illogical and entirely useless behaviour, not to mention counter-productive as it is only likely to bring contempt onto you for the whole "I know best" routine (and this has already been demonstrated by other posters on this thread, excluding Emil who I think would agree with just about anything to take a few cheap shots at the people he doesn't like).
1 The use of the word “controlled” as in controlled slashing yourself with a razor blade, or controlled burnings etc, brilliant.
2 The parenthesis including the exclamation mark in “(not suicide intended!) super.
3Again brilliant, I never thought anyone would say that to me – not a sentence you come across in day-to-day life, I'll not unpack that one, leave it as it is.“You should simply tolerate the existence of sadomasochism”
4 The mere implication that opening your skin with razors is the preferred option over having a pint or two of beer or a bottle of wine. Crazy.
5 Another good parenthesis in “(and I’ll tell you why in a minute)” this adds tension!
6 Incredulity that I haven’t come to the same conclusion as you – why on earth would I, I don’t know?
7What the hell? Who said anything about that, ever?“It should be obvious that you’ll never change anyone’s sexual tendancies…”
8I’m not looking down on anyone, I’m merely pointing out that it is a crackpot thing to do, that’s all, giving my opinion as the OP asked – or should I lie and say “yes it might be meditative, I might take it up, pass me the Stanley knife?” I’m giving my opinion which I’m pretty sure in this case is the mainstream voice anyway, not an usual opinion that is.Looking down on others.
9Brilliant. But I don’t care, I’m giving my, obviously strange, opinion that slashing yourself with razors is not really a good idea!“You're only making people feel sympathetic towards masochists for having to deal with such closed-mindedness…”
10 Causing myself grief by getting worked up.
I appreciate that you are worried about my health and thank you for that, but I am not getting worked up at all – this is classic stuff!
11Just giving my opinion, I’m not trying to “convert” people into not slashing open themselves, I’m just giving my opinion.“Expressing contempt is, in this case, illogical and entirely useless behaviour…”
12 The "I know best" routine.
Well, maybe I’m wrong then in this case, maybe we should encourage people to slice holes in themselves or to rip out their eyes, or whatever it is you’re supporting this time? Crazy.
Also, you wouldn't be so quick to support skin slicing if you got an infection from it, I can tell you. Having just recovered from an infection I got while shaving the whole experience has not been fun, I've been ill on and off for a month. I can't remember feeling as badly in my life. I suppose you would argue that "cutters" take precautions and carry TCP around with them or something. Really, it's all just too silly for words!
Last edited by LitNetIsGreat; 02-15-2012 at 01:38 PM.
Neely... give it up. By now you surely have recognized that Juniper is about as rational as one of those rabid grizzly bears and she's only in this dispute in a vain attempt to prove her credentials among the Alpha Males (gender confusion being rampant in rural Canada).
While Neely is probably as liberal as I in our beliefs with regard to allowing others to live their lives as they wish (as long as their behavior doesn't impinge on the rights of others) he does have certain responsibilities as a teacher to report behavior such as self-mutilation and threats of suicide. But then again... I suppose as suicide doesn't impinge of the rights of anyone else we shouldn't be the least concerned about that either. Live and let die.
There are cultural traditions involving what others might term "self mutilation" or "body alteration". These certainly include tattoos, scarification, piercings, etc... These are different from slicing one's wrist with a razor and any person in a professional position (teachers, councilors, nurses, doctors, therapists, etc... as well as parents) could (and likely would) be held legally responsible for not reporting such behavior which is commonly associated with extreme depression, mental illness, and suicidal tendencies.
The comparison of pathological behaviors with having a pint of two of beer is beyond all rational thinking. It belongs in the world of idealized fantasy and not the real world in which most of us live. Certainly, extreme alcoholism or drug abuse are just as self-destructive... and as a result society makes attempts to counter these behaviors... largely because it is recognized that such self destructive behavior hurts others... and even society as a whole ($$$). But I suppose that is irrelevant when you live in a third-world cattle town. Then I guess live and let die is the mottoe embraced by all... not Donne's
No man is an Island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the Continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friends or of thine own were; any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee.
Beware of the man with just one book. -Ovid
The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the man who can't read them.- Mark Twain
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Because you naturaly know what is better for a person than themselves, and their body is not their own afterall, it belongs to society, to the nation. It is not their body, it is societies - so society must protect it assests and create strict regulations to protect people from themselves. Because people are stupid...except the people who make the rules, they are clever. Always.Neely... give it up. By now you surely have recognized that Juniper is about as rational as one of those rabid grizzly bears and she's only in this dispute in a vain attempt to prove her credentials among the Alpha Males (gender confusion being rampant in rural Canada).
While Neely is probably as liberal as I in our beliefs with regard to allowing others to live their lives as they wish (as long as their behavior doesn't impinge on the rights of others) he does have certain responsibilities as a teacher to report behavior such as self-mutilation and threats of suicide. But then again... I suppose as suicide doesn't impinge of the rights of anyone else we shouldn't be the least concerned about that either. Live and let die.
There are cultural traditions involving what others might term "self mutilation" or "body alteration". These certainly include tattoos, scarification, piercings, etc... These are different from slicing one's wrist with a razor and any person in a professional position (teachers, councilors, nurses, doctors, therapists, etc... as well as parents) could (and likely would) be held legally responsible for not reporting such behavior which is commonly associated with extreme depression, mental illness, and suicidal tendencies.
The comparison of pathological behaviors with having a pint of two of beer is beyond all rational thinking. It belongs in the world of idealized fantasy and not the real world in which most of us live. Certainly, extreme alcoholism or drug abuse are just as self-destructive... and as a result society makes attempts to counter these behaviors... largely because it is recognized that such self destructive behavior hurts others... and even society as a whole ($$$). But I suppose that is irrelevant when you live in a third-world cattle town. Then I guess live and let die is the mottoe embraced by all... not Donne's
No man is an Island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the Continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friends or of thine own were; any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankind; And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee.
I don't think it is appropriate to conflate sadomasochism and self-harm, as has been done throughout this thread.
Self-harm is done as a form of coping by people suffering from anxiety disorders or depression, it is not something they "enjoy" but is a compulsive behaviour most of them would rather not engage in. It is usually a hidden behaviour accompanied by issues of shame and the underlining causes of whatever produces the desire to self-harm.
S&M as a sexual practice is completely different, it tends to be a social activity. It is engaged in with the precise intent of producing some sort of sexual arousal. It rarely involves something like cutting. Moreover, it is usually practised in a controlled environment between consenting adults. S&M is not considered to be a sign of any mental health issues, and minor forms of it tend to permeate throughout a lot of people's sexual habits and play.
"If the national mental illness of the United States is megalomania, that of Canada is paranoid schizophrenia."
- Margaret Atwood
[QUOTE=stlukesguild;1115595]
Also in some parts of the US it would seem.Neely... give it up. By now you surely have recognized that Juniper is about as rational as one of those rabid grizzly bears and she's only in this dispute in a vain attempt to prove her credentials among the Alpha Males (gender confusion being rampant in rural Canada).
"L'art de la statistique est de tirer des conclusions erronèes a partir de chiffres exacts." Napoléon Bonaparte.
"Je crois que beaucoup de gens sont dans cet état d’esprit: au fond, ils ne sentent pas concernés par l’Histoire. Mais pourtant, de temps à autre, l’Histoire pose sa main sur eux." Michel Houellebecq.
Thanks for making the distinction Pip.
Before sunlight can shine through a window, the blinds must be raised - American Proverb
Neely... give it up. By now you surely have recognized that Juniper is about as rational as one of those rabid grizzly bears and she's only in this dispute in a vain attempt to prove her credentials among the Alpha Males (gender confusion being rampant in rural Canada).
I don't think grizzly bears get rabies.
I guess I'll have to find that picture of a big straw man again. . . .
THANK YOU. I thought I've made that clear, but I guess I haven't. People aren't making distinctions about what they're talking about. I. Sorry, but if anyone really thinks that cutting oneself is an okay coping technique for dealing with depression or other psychological issues . . . sorry, I don't see how anyone could find that logical.
As to S&M, who cares?
Well these are the questions at the thread starter, which is what I was originally responding to:
No mention of sex incidentally. I'm not saying that you should only stick to the OP, as conversation is not like that, and I'm the worst culprit for going off topic, but this is what I originally responded to regardless. Should self-mutilation be considered healthy, somewhat meditating?Is self-mutilation a form of body modification? And can or should it be considered a healthy, somewhat meditating, form of retaining more dangerous outlets of negative mental states from manifesting?
A resounding no on my part. Controversial it seems?!
[QUOTE=Emil Miller;1115620]
Also in some parts of the US it would seem.
Also in some parts of the US it would seem.
I feel offended. Dragging politics into this. Also Palin doesn't' spit venom with the demeanor of a junkyard dog.
"But do you really, seriously, Major Scobie," Dr. Sykes asked, "believe in hell?"
"In flames and torment?""Oh, yes, I do."
"That sort of hell wouldn't worry me," Fellowes said."Perhaps not quite that. They tell us it may be a permanent sense of loss."
"Perhaps you've never lost anything of importance," Scobie said.
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