Self-Mutilation as form of body modification/meditation.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Just to clarify my earlier assertions: I do not think it's good or healthy for a person to use self-mutilation as a coping mechanism for depression. Other than the obvious possible results of real harm (even if it's a staff infection from a small cut) it just doesn't seem like it's in any way healthy. It's just a gut feeling.

What I don't have a problem with is masochism used to derive pleasure rather than to alleviate emotional pain. I'm talking about the guys who go to dominatrixes to get whipped and have hot wax poured on them. If that's what they get off on, more power to 'em. I don't see any harm in that.

As far as people wanting to amputate themselves, there something wrong there . . . but whether or not someone should be able to do it is a more complicated matter--probably moreso than any of us are intelligent enough to understand.

What about this guy:



Should that be allowed?

[Darcy88]

That's a fair reply Darcy so would the cutting you see other people inflict upon themselves where no significant harm be ok if it is one of your children?

(I must question the definition of significant harm since my daughter, apart from being covered in old scars, isn't really harmed is she?)

I guess it was stupid to say it wasn't a problem since its an obvious sign that there in fact is a problem. I've just known a number of people who suffered from depression and cut themselves but were otherwise normal, and so I don't class cutting along with drug abuse, purging, suicidal attempts, violence on others, dropping out of school, unsafe sex, or the plethora of other things that in themselves amount to serious and significant problems. Your daughter is an extreme case and can't stand as an example of all those who cut themselves. Her case shows me that cutting is not as light a matter as I thought and that it can in some instances be in and of itself a serious problem, but in a lot of cases its a surface symptom of a deep underlying issue, and I think that issue and not the cutting itself should be of most pressing concern.

[Delta40]

It's funny. Depression is a diagnosed mental health condition and I would expect that among young people cutting along with drug abuse, purging, suicidal attempts, violence on others, dropping out of school, unsafe sex, or the plethora of other things to be symptoms of depression or another condition.

I know kids that suicided in their teens. It's worth noting that their paths all involved self harm and so I guess my final point on this thread is that no level of self harm can be considered insignificant.

Thanks for listening to the subjective view of a Mother.

[JuniperWoolf]

There're always the same people being rightoues and judgmental.

I don't think that Neely is self-righteous or judgemental, I think he's just sheltered. How could you not have come to terms with the existance of masochism? No one cares anymore if people get sexual gratification through cutting themselves or their willing partners, as long as they aren't running around cutting other people without permission.

I never understood cutting. I was an angsty depressive adolescent and I never once felt the urge to cut. Maybe its the endorphin release? Or a cry for help perhaps?

I never got the depression aspect of it either. I was a depressed kid too, and it would never even have occured to me that "hey, maybe if I make a hole in myself I'll feel better."

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

^I guess I'll throw my hat in there as well. I suffered from depression in high school, and not once did I want to inflict pain onto myself. I guess my case is a little different . . . it's not like I had to inflict any injury upon myself. Still, I've never taken pleasure from pain, whether I've been depressed or not. Sometimes I find a *little* pain pleasurable, such as when I have an itch, but scratching it hurts as well as feels good. Generally speaking, though, pain is something I take every possible avenue not to experience.

[Alexander III]

I agree. It is tiring and ridiculous. It is always the same thing, somebody makes some ridiculous statement like "having fun by burning yourself" and then somebody points out the complete nonsense of it and is accused of being an intolerant raving Neo-Conservative. Strange. Can't wait for the thread on "Pedophilia, it's Just a Big Laugh" - should be good.

You have fun by going to a wooden building in your town, where all the men go, and all of you drink pints of poison, sometimes so much poison that you feel sick and can't controll yourself. The morning after your body bluntly lets you know don't do this again. But the next weekend you are sill down in that wooden building spending money on poison and drinking it and being sick....

The accusation is not intolerance, it is hypocrisy.

[Alexander III]

Should that be allowed?

What happened to the whole American, " this is a free country" spirit. Is that all just empty rethoric, or do you actual believe what you say?

[LitNetIsGreat]

You have fun by going to a wooden building in your town, where all the men go, and all of you drink pints of poison, sometimes so much poison that you feel sick and can't controll yourself. The morning after your body bluntly lets you know don't do this again. But the next weekend you are sill down in that wooden building spending money on poison and drinking it and being sick....

The accusation is not intolerance, it is hypocrisy.

Yes because having a few quiet pints is obviously the same thing as slashing yourself with a razor blade or putting knives through your nose! What a hypocrite I am!

[Emil Miller]

That guy needs a haircut.

[Emil Miller]

You have fun by going to a wooden building in your town, where all the men go, and all of you drink pints of poison, sometimes so much poison that you feel sick and can't controll yourself. The morning after your body bluntly lets you know don't do this again. But the next weekend you are sill down in that wooden building spending money on poison and drinking it and being sick....

Have you been drinking poteen in your garden shed again Neely?

[LitNetIsGreat]

Have you been drinking poteen in your garden shed again Neely?

Yes it's a little club I've got going again. It's a tight squeeze in there with three bikes and a lawn mower though, but we keep going back for more.

[Emil Miller]

Yes it's a little club I've got going again. It's a tight squeeze in there with three bikes and a lawn mower though, but we keep going back for more.

Well it was either that or a quiet night at Witherspoons.

[Calidore]

This thread has been interesting reading. I like to consider myself pretty liberal and freedom-loving, but the ridiculous extremes some folks will go to justify baldly harmful behavior in the name of "I'm okay, you're okay, we're all okay" is unbelievable. Endorphins? Give me a break. Endorphins help you cope with pain and help alleviate depression, but they don't eliminate either. You can go out in the sun for much the same effect. The pain is the point, and to inflict pain and damage on oneself in response to stress or unhappiness is not natural, and it's not right.

In the case of adults, you can't do much except express concern and suggest alternatives or points of help. Children, however, are a different story. Any animal hearing a cry for help from its child will rush to its aid. To rationalize ignoring a cry for help and allowing a child to harm him/herself is to violate a basic law of nature. Parents who are ruled by that level of cowardice have no business being parents.

[Paulclem]

What people do to their own bodies is really quite up to them, as is their sexual preferences, so long as they are not inflicting it on unwilling people.

What is clear is that the wish to declare/ discuss/ exhibit such predispositions is another form of egotism. The chap with the knife nostrils is just saying look at me. Tattoos, piercings, self mutilation, (except that associated with mental health issues), - so what? It's been done before in tribes, and.

http://dontstandtheregawping.blogspo.../piercing.html

http://www.matses.info/photos/Matses-008-Piercings.html

[Emil Miller]

[QUOTE=Paulclem;1114735]

What is clear is that the wish to declare/ discuss/ exhibit such predispositions is another form of egotism. The chap with the knife nostrils is just saying look at me. Tattoos, piercings, self mutilation, (except that associated with mental health issues), - so what?

Got it in one, except that many people find showing off to be childish and demeaning. The 'look at me' attitude is said to be 'making a statement.' But when the statement is' 'Look what an attention seeking exhibitionist I am,' others are bound to draw their own conclusions no matter what the exhibitionists would like them to think.