Ignorance is bliss?

[ftil]

Ecurb wrote:
I don't understand a word you say. Ftil says "emotional responses that are reactive are not blissful for those who deal with a reactive person." Suppose you say, "I love you" to someone, and that person, without pausing to think, responds by gushing, "Oh how I've hoped and dreamed for this day! I love you too, with all my heart and soul!" Then she starts covering you with kisses. According to ftil, the person who first said “I love you” cannot, somehow, find that "blissful". I don't get it.

Hehehe…...I was not talking about expressing love. I talked about less pleasurable emotions like anger or rage that is expressed in inappropriate or even a threatening manner.

ftil goes on to say, "In other words, emotional ignorance is only blissful to the reactive person." Since my entire point was that "ignorance" is not an emotional state, but a description of the level of knowledge someone has attained, I have no idea what “emotional ignorance” refers to. But, in my previous example, it appears that the emotional reaction of the “reactive person” (this sound like a legal brief) will probably create a “blissful state” for the initiator.

Ignorance is not an emotional state. I agree on that. I was talking about the lack of knowledge about appropriate ways of dealing and expressing emotions. In other words, it s not about we feel but how we express it. We may be happy and out of happiness we may want to dance naked on the street. But for how long we can enjoy dancing…..

I don’t say emotional response or rational responses. If we emphasize emotional response, we ignore relational mind and vice versa. We need both and we can’t ignore one or the other……..if we don’t want to be blissfully ignorant of others. Some may call it emotional immaturity or we may call it emotional ignorance.

[osho]

This is a very interesting thread and I have been reading everything posted here even if I may not reply.

In fact I am always confused about this. I always love to learn more and the joy of reading great books, discovering or exploring new lands, coming upon new cultures and new people is boundless.

Ignorance keeps us in the dark and so many people were slaves since they never knew their rights and they underestimated themselves.

Ignorance keeps you in poverty and knowledge in prosperity.

I want the rest of people to revitalize this wonderful thread and share their opinions and views.

[Brett Cottrell]

Ignorance isn't bliss. This is bliss.

[osho]

Ignorance isn't bliss. This is bliss.

So engaging reply. This is indeed bliss since it is fulfilling. I second your thought unreservedly. If you one does not know the other as a friend, as a girlfriend or boyfriend or as someone other this and remains ignorant of all these things he loses the joy of it and of course the bliss

[cafolini]

Let's look at ignorance as the act of ignoring, not lack of knowledge or education. I have never found more ingorance than among the educated. And the epidemy in that field were the ones with some philosophical straightjacket. I haven't found more suffering than among the philosophical of old age, refusing to recant a life of intellectual entanglement and subtle, refined, sophisticated prejudice.

[Freudian Monkey]

Let's look at ignorance as the act of ignoring, not lack of knowledge or education. I have never found more ingorance than among the educated. And the epidemy in that field were the ones with some philosophical straightjacket. I haven't found more suffering than among the philosophical of old age, refusing to recant a life of intellectual entanglement and subtle, refined, sophisticated prejudice.

Interesting. A really fascinating perspective.

I guess when one has more knowledge of a certain concept, he has a more strict opinion concerning the nature of that concept. It really is difficult to keep an open mind toward ideas that are in conflict with the theories that one adobts through education. I'd still say that, ideally, an educated person should be able to make an objective judgement toward all information he meets. Unfortunately educated people often become arrogant and dismiss any information that is not in harmony with the knowledge they have adobted, as cafolini said. This arrogance is, without a doubt, ignorance.

[ftil]

Interesting. A really fascinating perspective.

I guess when one has more knowledge of a certain concept, he has a more strict opinion concerning the nature of that concept. It really is difficult to keep an open mind toward ideas that are in conflict with the theories that one adobts through education. I'd still say that, ideally, an educated person should be able to make an objective judgement toward all information he meets. Unfortunately educated people often become arrogant and dismiss any information that is not in harmony with the knowledge they have adobted, as cafolini said. This arrogance is, without a doubt, ignorance.

Well said. Yes, educated person should be able to make an objective judgment……..but many times it is not a case, isn't it?

I view it as a lack of critical thinking as well as not being open minded. Secondly, the educational system teaches us linear thinking, particularly, university where we have to master it. I tend to think that the natural way our minds work is holotropic but we lost this ability. I have to do more study but there are a few researchers who share the same opinion.

[cafolini]

Well said. Yes, educated person should be able to make an objective judgment……..but many times it is not a case, isn't it?

I view it as a lack of critical thinking as well as not being open minded. Secondly, the educational system teaches us linear thinking, particularly, university where we have to master it. I tend to think that the natural way our minds work is holotropic but we lost this ability. I have to do more study but there are a few researchers who share the same opinion.

I think the problem is objectivism in many ways. If you think you see the way things work, the tendency is to ignore all other possibilities. Plus I have observed that people tend to find solace in method. Method is a companion of ignorance in solitude. Find a few good methods for a few good hobbies and you can escape into that place of lonely stability and ignorance of anything else that goes on outside your scope. Once the habits are formed, there is no getting out of the circular. Being open minded could become a result of tolerating without having to deal with anything that might bother you about the ways of the larger world of which you are a part. As a historian I have to say that most ages of involution and stagnation managed to maintain a middle class of relative objectivity and methodology.

[ftil]

I think the problem is objectivism in many ways. If you think you see the way things work, the tendency is to ignore all other possibilities. Plus I have observed that people tend to find solace in method. Method is a companion of ignorance in solitude. Find a few good methods for a few good hobbies and you can escape into that place of lonely stability and ignorance of anything else that goes on outside your scope. Once the habits are formed, there is no getting out of the circular. Being open minded could become a result of tolerating without having to deal with anything that might bother you about the ways of the larger world of which you are a part. As a historian I have to say that most ages of involution and stagnation managed to maintain a middle class of relative objectivity and methodology.

Hm…..I see it a different way. I don’t look for the answers, because when I look for the answer and accept a belief, I close my mind to find an alterative explanation. So, I constantly ask questions, seek, and search.

Secondly, as one of my professors said, “every theory is just an educated guesswork” It is very freeing, isn’t it? I question everything and I am comfortable doing it even though I had many times storm over my head for doing it. I also pay a careful attention when I become defensive. It is always a signal to look deeper and uncover beliefs that are blocks.

Finally, I see being open minded as being comfortable to challenge any belief I hold as truth. There are people who have a quite rigid belief system. From psychological point of view, psychologically healthy people have a flexible belief system. I have found it very freeing too. I wouldn’t say that a person is open minded who tolerates as you said, “ without having to deal with having to deal with anything that might bother you about the ways of the larger world of which you are a part” I would see it as an example of close minded person or a person who uses denial as a way of coping with uncomfortable reality. People are so unique and perceived ignorance may have different roots.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

And G L Wilson lives on.

[cafolini]

Hm…..I see it a different way. I don’t look for the answers, because when I look for the answer and accept a belief, I close my mind to find an alterative explanation. So, I constantly ask questions, seek, and search.

Secondly, as one of my professors said, “every theory is just an educated guesswork” It is very freeing, isn’t it? I question everything and I am comfortable doing it even though I had many times storm over my head for doing it. I also pay a careful attention when I become defensive. It is always a signal to look deeper and uncover beliefs that are blocks.

Finally, I see being open minded as being comfortable to challenge any belief I hold as truth. There are people who have a quite rigid belief system. From psychological point of view, psychologically healthy people have a flexible belief system. I have found it very freeing too. I wouldn’t say that a person is open minded who tolerates as you said, “ without having to deal with having to deal with anything that might bother you about the ways of the larger world of which you are a part” I would see it as an example of close minded person or a person who uses denial as a way of coping with uncomfortable reality. People are so unique and perceived ignorance may have different roots.

I think you need to read Sam Harris to address those issues. They have very little to do with what I'm talking about.

[Big Dante]

A lot of people I know strongly agree with this quote but I find myself quite against it. Being a college student I am surrounded by some who are quite ignorant. I will listen to them discuss their important party or the release of the new iphone 4 and these topics do truly facinate them. Their horizon doesn't expand much further than these topics however and while they may bring the person happiness, is that true happiness? Many would say yes which is completely fair. For the individual that may bring true happiness but with more awareness one can then question what true happiness is. When one reflects on life they can question what they want from it and what will bring them true happiness. I reflect quite often on life, death, suffering and the like and some may say that these thoughts are a burden and ignorance towards them is bliss. I however find it as a blessing as it has opened my awareness to what I want to achieve. I know that the iphone 4 or Friday night's party won't bring me true happiness so I know I can devote my time to the things in life that will. Learning music, writing, special people, dreams and goals that I would never have imagined remaining ignorant.

[mo88dave]

hi there,
it depends on the situation on what ignorance is based..

website marketing expert

[Brett Cottrell]

So engaging reply. This is indeed bliss since it is fulfilling. I second your thought unreservedly. If you one does not know the other as a friend, as a girlfriend or boyfriend or as someone other this and remains ignorant of all these things he loses the joy of it and of course the bliss

Uh, no. The Tori Amos song is called "Bliss."

[YW1990]

Let's look at ignorance as the act of ignoring, not lack of knowledge or education. I have never found more ingorance than among the educated. And the epidemy in that field were the ones with some philosophical straightjacket. I haven't found more suffering than among the philosophical of old age, refusing to recant a life of intellectual entanglement and subtle, refined, sophisticated prejudice.

It's ironic isn't it that the most intellectually vested people seem to be the most ignorant of opposing arguments that threaten their personal viewpoints of the world? Shouldn't they be the most open minded people who are accepting and receptive of new information since that is what education is all about? Maybe we shouldn't endow these sorts of people with the term intellectual at all if they demonstrate these posits of ignorance.
There's a difference between sticking up for what you believe in and being downright pig headed about things.
I joined this forum to have my beliefs and thoughts challenged if it means that it will open up new and more justified ways of seeing certain things. It always hurts when people prove you wrong, but really it's for the best if it proves to you that you've been seeing things through a subjective framework that has the potential to be deceptive.