Why I believe in God?

[Dodo25]

Nobody can evidently say God exists nor they can disregard the idea of God. We are in a dilemma of belief and disbelief.

Yeah I'm in a huge dilemma too, about whether I should believe that there is Narnia in my closet. I mean, I can't disprove it, and either it is there or it is not, so the odds seem 50-50.. Maybe if I open my closet, someday, there will be Narnia.

Or recently a friend told me about the flying spaghetti monster. Should I believe in it? I mean it's a tough choice, it might exist and there is no evidence against it.. I think I better believe in it, if it does exist and finds out I didn't care about it, it might get angry and throw spaghetti sauce at me, and I really don't want spaghetti sauce all over my clothes..

I can't understand those irrational 'A-Narnianists', these people who don't believe in Narnia. I mean, how arrogant are they to assume that there is existance without it. They can't prove it. Actually, not believing in Narnia is a religion too, they believe in solid closet walls instead of Narnia.

[blazeofglory]

Yeah I'm in a huge dilemma too, about whether I should believe that there is Narnia in my closet. I mean, I can't disprove it, and either it is there or it is not, so the odds seem 50-50.. Maybe if I open my closet, someday, there will be Narnia.

Or recently a friend told me about the flying spaghetti monster. Should I believe in it? I mean it's a tough choice, it might exist and there is no evidence against it.. I think I better believe in it, if it does exist and finds out I didn't care about it, it might get angry and throw spaghetti sauce at me, and I really don't want spaghetti sauce all over my clothes..

I can't understand those irrational 'A-Narnianists', these people who don't believe in Narnia. I mean, how arrogant are they to assume that there is existance without it. They can't prove it. Actually, not believing in Narnia is a religion too, they believe in solid closet walls instead of Narnia.

There is worldplay in your statement and I do not understand what you really want to put forth

[Dodo25]

There is worldplay in your statement and I do not understand what you really want to put forth

I used sarcasm and reductiones ad absurdum to make an important point: It is irrational to believe (in) something if there is no evidence for it. The burden of 'proof' (or evidence) thus rests on the believer. Not 'believing' would then be the 'default option', and not a narrow-minded choice, and definitely not a fundamentalistic one, if we allow the possibility of changing our minds after new evidence comes up.

Edit:
And 'solid closet walls' by the way stands for 'chance'. Some believers make statements like 'atheists have faith in chance'. The misunderstanding here is that it actually requires no faith to not believe, because God (or Narnia) is much more complex and thus more improbable to just happen to exist (or pop into existance) than anything else, including the universe itself. It means that this

Regardless, I believe in a God. Maybe it's a security blanket I use as an answer as to "Why isn't there just nothing?"

is not a good answer, because just 'postulating' something even more complex and unexplainable than the thing (universe) we're trying to explain only complicates the problem.

[Dekarto]

Can I ask why God and Christ are always used synonymously? Where there is God there is Christianity. I respect your change in belief, Dekarto, but it confuses me. You started off with no religious beliefs and then gravitated towards Christianity. Why? Why not Buddhism? Judaism? Islam? Wicca? Did you just happen to live where there is a large community of Christians?

God and Christ are used synonymously because Christ is part of the triune God; The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. God consists of these three personalities. You can search the internet for the Trinity to learn more about this unique characteristic of God. The answer to your second question on why I became a Christian instead of a follower of any other religon, is simple. As a Christian I believe in the salvation system of Calvinism, a doctrine that teaches that people are saved through the grace of God by an unconditional election. While this doctrine of salvation may not explain to you the reason for my personal conversion, it can throw some light on the matter. My personal testimony would be that one day some time ago, I for some reason came across some articles arguing for the existence of God. I was not very convinced at first, but gradually I started to realise that I had been a fool for many years; a fool to deny the existence of God. I prayed to God and said that if he really was out there, convince me that He is, and thereafter lead me to the right conclusions about Him. Unaware of the great act I had done by placing my faith in God, the perseverance of the Saints was starting working within me, and after that I have found it impossible to deny God; both because of the logical reasons why He exists and the personal experiences with Him and the great changes that have taken place in my life (I was the typical a-hole atheist before I was saved, but no longer). I mention that I prayed to God and asked Him to lead to me to right conclusions about Him, and He lead me to the Christian faith. The overwhelming evidence for the truth of this religion I just could not ignore and an inner convincing feeling made me place my trust in this religion as the right one. (Although there are many Christian churches and doctrines that are wrong.) Being a Christian feels so right, and then it probably is.
And no, I'm not in a Christian community, I don't go to church, and I'm not baptised either. My faith is a personal one.

That's not only China, but it's most of the world. The spread of Christianity was forced on many. If your example is focused on today I can only say that religion is a tool for assimilation. How much easier is it to fit in and get involved when you're in church every Sunday?

Indeed it has been forced on many to attend church and be baptised (by water), but one can never force anyone to truly believe in something. They can lie about it and call themselves Christians, but this does not mean that they are baptised by the spirit and truly knows God and will go to Heaven. Not all 'Christians' will go to heaven.

You seem to have been conditioned into believing in Christian faiths and you have wrongly thought that Chinese people have come to Christianity just because they have thought it is better than Buddhism. Most of what Christian missionaries do is they try to convert people into Christianity and by injecting more and more money they are influencing them.

Again, some Chinese people may call themselves Christian and not be so, but why would they? The only thing they have coming by doing so is persecution by the Chinese government. The only thing that matters is the personal faith and relationship with God, accepting His Son Jesus Christ as Savior. I strongly doubt that most Christian missionaries convert people by offering them riches. A true believer in Christ will not be influenced by these earthly items; a missionary that truly believes in Christ will not offer money to the chinese for convertion, and a true chinese believer will not accept the money and convert because of it.

I could go on and on answering your questions and statements, but rather I will suggest the amazing Christian website www.gotquestions.org. This site can and will answer all your questions on Christianity. But in the end it is up to you if you accept the religion or not.

[Dodo25]

I could go on and on answering your questions and statements, but rather I will suggest the amazing Christian website (...). This site can and will answer all your questions on Christianity.

In what way do you think posting a link that states things like 'homesexuality comes from sin, and people are not born homosexual' or 'humans lived with dinosaurs' supports your case??

Studies on twins raised separately in different environments have shown beyond reasonable doubt that being homosexual is to a huge extent determined by genes -> birth. So are some babies born as sinners and some aren't?

And the dinosaur thing is simply ridiculous, dating methods based on several different isotopes with different half-life times have independently reached the very same conclusion: Dinosaurs died out about 65 million years ago (with the exception of birds that is).

Not only are the 'answers' on this site preposterously wrong, they're also dangerous and highly offending. Thinking that being gay is a matter of choice or of weak character is discriminating. Indoctrinating others (children) with such believes, i.e. the dinosaur-human myth, messes up their minds and damages education.

This kind of stuff is the reason why faith is dangerous. If people don't learn how to think and find it acceptable to hold beliefs without evidence, we'll continue to have problems with discrimination and simply terrible general education.

[Dekarto]

In what way do you think posting a link that states things like 'homesexuality comes from sin, and people are not born homosexual' or 'humans lived with dinosaurs' supports your case?? Studies on twins raised separately in different environments have shown beyond reasonable doubt that being homosexual is to a huge extent determined by genes -> birth. So are some babies born as sinners and some aren't?

Firstly, in my post I do not have any specific cases that needs to be supported. Secondly, I am not responsible for what the articles on that site says about various things, I merely suggested it as a notable site visiting if you have questions regarding the Christian faith. About homosexuality: No one are born homosexual. There are indeed some people that have tendencies to be homosexual, but this does not force them to be homosexual. These tendencies may have some genetic origin, but in the end it is a sin like every other sin that needs to be suppressed. I think it is more offensive to say that homosexuals are without choice than to say that they actually do have a choice.

Everyone are born sinners. It is not as you suggest that some are born sinners and some are not. Everyone inherit the original sin that dates back to Adam and Eve, from their parents. But sin is in many forms. Homosexuality is just one kind of sin, pedophilia, for example, is another. Disbelief in God is also a sin. Lust of the flesh is a sin. Murder is a sin. But the thing is that all sin is equal in value. No sin is worse than any other.

And the dinosaur thing is simply ridiculous, dating methods based on several different isotopes with different half-life times have independently reached the very same conclusion: Dinosaurs died out about 65 million years ago (with the exception of birds that is).

There is a common opinion among most people today that every theory science produces is an absolute fact. And that everything they read on wikipedia or watch on Discovery Channel is true. Well, this is wrong. There is debate among scientists on whether we can trust the dating methods used to determine the age of ancient fossils and other items. There are also many non-scientific reasons for why dating methods may be flawed. Let me use a simple example: When God created Adam and Eve, they were already adults, and a doctor would tell just the same. Why not think that when God created the Earth, it will, similar to the case of Adam and Eve, appear much older than its actual age?

Not only are the 'answers' on this site preposterously wrong, they're also dangerous and highly offending. Thinking that being gay is a matter of choice or of weak character is discriminating. Indoctrinating others (children) with such believes, i.e. the dinosaur-human myth, messes up their minds and damages education. This kind of stuff is the reason why faith is dangerous. If people don't learn how to think and find it acceptable to hold beliefs without evidence, we'll continue to have problems with discrimination and simply terrible general education.

I disagree with you here on several points. First of all, the answers on the site are not at all wrong, and much less offending. The site never claims homosexuals to be weak characters. And about education, I think it is rather the opposite; the teachings of today's society are wrong and perverted, not the teachings of the Bible. In fact, study of Scripture will reveal that it is not wrong in any areas and is actually compatible with science in many areas (assuming the scientific theories which are compared to religious views are correct in their statements, of course). Christians do not hold beliefs without evidence, science, on the other hand, often does. What proof do you have for the Big Bang theory? None. What proof do you have for dinosaurs living hundreds of millions of years ago? None. Christianity on the other hand answers both these questions. The Earth was created by a creator (which is logical when one thinks about it) and that life did not come to life out of nothing. And dinosaurs are documented in the Bible which is actually the most trustworthy ancient document. I think you should re-think your hasty statements and study the Christian points of view before you are too judgemental.

[Genocide]

And 'solid closet walls' by the way stands for 'chance'. Some believers make statements like 'atheists have faith in chance'. The misunderstanding here is that it actually requires no faith to not believe, because God (or Narnia) is much more complex and thus more improbable to just happen to exist (or pop into existance) than anything else, including the universe itself. It means that this is not a good answer, because just 'postulating' something even more complex and unexplainable than the thing (universe) we're trying to explain only complicates the problem.

I don't believe I said it was a good answer.... but seeing as I don't see a better one.... :]

No one are born homosexual. There are indeed some people that have tendencies to be homosexual, but this does not force them to be homosexual. These tendencies may have some genetic origin, but in the end it is a sin like every other sin that needs to be suppressed. I think it is more offensive to say that homosexuals are without choice than to say that they actually do have a choice.

Hm, call me naive to think that people don't actually still think like this. I believe people are born homosexual. I mean, as far as guys go I think there is a clear indicator of what they prefer sexually. Why would a person choose to have a hard life? Have people like you telling them they are sinners for loving whomever they happen to fall in love with.

Everyone are born sinners....But sin is in many forms. Homosexuality is just one kind of sin, pedophilia, for example, is another. Disbelief in God is also a sin. Lust of the flesh is a sin. Murder is a sin. But the thing is that all sin is equal in value. No sin is worse than any other.

Is discrimination a sin?

And about education, I think it is rather the opposite; the teachings of today's society are wrong and perverted, not the teachings of the Bible.

Huh, you're right. Because here are a few of my favorite teachings of the Bible. I live by them. Really.

“Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him, but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her for a covering.”---- 1 Corinthians 11:14-15 NAS

So women can't have short hair and men shouldn't have long hair... well there was a man named Samson...

"The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment:for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God."
---- Deuteronomy.22:5.

OH! So not only must women have long hair but they can't wear...pants? Okay THIS one makes sense too!

“And the LORD said to Moses, "Say to the people of Israel: 'Suppose a man's wife goes astray and is unfaithful to her husband. Suppose she sleeps with another man, but there is no witness since she was not caught in the act. If her husband becomes jealous and suspicious of his wife, even if she has not defiled herself, the husband must bring his wife to the priest with an offering of two quarts of barley flour to be presented on her behalf. Do not mix it with olive oil or frankincense, for it is a jealousy offering – an offering of inquiry to find out if she is guilty. "'The priest must then present her before the LORD. He must take some holy water in a clay jar and mix it with dust from the Tabernacle floor. When he has presented her before the LORD, he must unbind her hair and place the offering of inquiry – the jealousy offering – in her hands to determine whether or not her husband's suspicions are justified. The priest will stand before her, holding the jar of bitter water that brings a curse to those who are guilty. The priest will put the woman under oath and say to her, "If no other man has slept with you, and you have not defiled yourself by being unfaithful, may you be immune from the effects of this bitter water that causes the curse. But if you have gone astray while under your husband's authority and defiled yourself by sleeping with another man"- at this point the priest must put the woman under this oath – "then may the people see that the LORD's curse is upon you when he makes you infertile. Now may this water that brings the curse enter your body and make you infertile. "And the woman will be required to say, "Yes, let it be so." Then the priest will write these curses on a piece of leather and wash them off into the bitter water. He will then make the woman drink the bitter water, so it may bring on the curse and cause bitter suffering in cases of guilt. "'Then the priest will take the jealousy offering from the woman's hand, lift it up before the LORD, and carry it to the altar. He will take a handful as a token portion and burn it on the altar. Then he will require the woman to drink the water. If she has defiled herself by being unfaithful to her husband, the water that brings the curse will cause bitter suffering. She will become infertile, and her name will become a curse word among her people. But if she has not defiled herself and is pure, she will be unharmed and will still be able to have children. "'This is the ritual law for dealing with jealousy. If a woman defiles herself by being unfaithful to her husband, or if a man is overcome with jealousy and suspicion that his wife has been unfaithful, the husband must present his wife before the LORD, and the priest will apply this entire ritual law to her. The husband will be innocent of any guilt in this matter, but his wife will be held accountable for her sin.” ---- Numbers 5:11-31 NLT

This is a favorite bed time story of mine.

"But of these things be not ashamed, lest you sin through human respect;…Of constant training of children, or of beating the sides of a disloyal servant; or of a seal to keep an erring wife at home.” ---- Sirach 42:1,5-6 NAB

Do you beat your children?

“Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.” ----1 Corinthians 14:34-35

“Women should listen and learn quietly and submissively. I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly. For God made Adam first, and afterward he made Eve. And it was the woman, not Adam, who was deceived by Satan, and sin was the result. But women will be saved through childbearing and by continuing to live in faith, love, holiness, and modesty.” ---- 1 Timothy 2:11-15 NLT

“A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And Adam was not the one deceived, it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.” ---- 1 Timothy 2:11-14

"If a man lies with a woman during her sickness and uncovers her nakedness, he has discovered her flow, and she has uncovered the flow of her blood. Both of them shall be cut off from her people."---- Leviticus 20:18

‘You wives will submit to your husbands as you do to the Lord. For a husband is the head of his wife as Christ is the head of his body, the church; he gave his life to be her Savior. As the church submits to Christ, so you wives must submit to your husbands in everything.” ---- Ephesians 5:22-24 NLT

“But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst.” ----- Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB

“And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, ... If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days. ... And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying three and thirty days. ... But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days.” ---- Leviticus 12:1-5

“Give no woman power over you to trample upon your dignity.”---- Sirach 9:2 NAB

“Wives, be subordinate to your husbands, as is proper in the Lord.”---- Colossians 3:18 NAB

“Likewise, you wives should be subordinate to your husbands so that, even if some disobey the word, they may be won over without a word by their wives' conduct when they observe your reverent and chaste behavior.” ---- 1 Peter 3:1-2 NAB

Well.... this must be why Hillary lost.

There are many, many more quotes that I don't actually believe you follow... but if you think that the Bible has it right... then that's you, I guess.

[blazeofglory]

God and Christ are used synonymously because Christ is part of the triune God; The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. God consists of these three personalities. You can search the internet for the Trinity to learn more about this unique characteristic of God. The answer to your second question on why I became a Christian instead of a follower of any other religon, is simple. As a Christian I believe in the salvation system of Calvinism, a doctrine that teaches that people are saved through the grace of God by an unconditional election. While this doctrine of salvation may not explain to you the reason for my personal conversion, it can throw some light on the matter. My personal testimony would be that one day some time ago, I for some reason came across some articles arguing for the existence of God. I was not very convinced at first, but gradually I started to realise that I had been a fool for many years; a fool to deny the existence of God. I prayed to God and said that if he really was out there, convince me that He is, and thereafter lead me to the right conclusions about Him. Unaware of the great act I had done by placing my faith in God, the perseverance of the Saints was starting working within me, and after that I have found it impossible to deny God; both because of the logical reasons why He exists and the personal experiences with Him and the great changes that have taken place in my life (I was the typical a-hole atheist before I was saved, but no longer). I mention that I prayed to God and asked Him to lead to me to right conclusions about Him, and He lead me to the Christian faith. The overwhelming evidence for the truth of this religion I just could not ignore and an inner convincing feeling made me place my trust in this religion as the right one. (Although there are many Christian churches and doctrines that are wrong.) Being a Christian feels so right, and then it probably is.
And no, I'm not in a Christian community, I don't go to church, and I'm not baptised either. My faith is a personal one.



Indeed it has been forced on many to attend church and be baptised (by water), but one can never force anyone to truly believe in something. They can lie about it and call themselves Christians, but this does not mean that they are baptised by the spirit and truly knows God and will go to Heaven. Not all 'Christians' will go to heaven.



Again, some Chinese people may call themselves Christian and not be so, but why would they? The only thing they have coming by doing so is persecution by the Chinese government. The only thing that matters is the personal faith and relationship with God, accepting His Son Jesus Christ as Savior. I strongly doubt that most Christian missionaries convert people by offering them riches. A true believer in Christ will not be influenced by these earthly items; a missionary that truly believes in Christ will not offer money to the chinese for convertion, and a true chinese believer will not accept the money and convert because of it.

I could go on and on answering your questions and statements, but rather I will suggest the amazing Christian website www.gotquestions.org. This site can and will answer all your questions on Christianity. But in the end it is up to you if you accept the religion or not.

You are right in an ideal situation when a believer is assured of the minimum accommodations he needs to maintain and sustain life in point of fact. But more often than not people are tempted and accept riches. In Nepal most Christian missionaries tempt poor communities into their faiths. I am not against Christianity or Jesus, but Christianity is not the only religion that is true and holy. Other religions are equally important too no matter how poor the people in those religions are. It is also true that Christian missionaries are richer and they have so much money to throw and that is helping them to spread their religions. On the strength of money this religion is spreading fast. With that said I do not want to criticize your faith. I am only stating it in relation to other faiths only

[Scheherazade]

The OP of the thread:

Well, to start with, I have given few main reasons why I believe in God. I hope other readers may give their views- on why they believe or do not believe in God.
I just hope that we do not go for one-another’s throat and keep our humor intact.

Just to reiterate:

This thread is not an opportunity for any kind of religious propaganda
and
it is definitely not an opportunity to push agendas on more controversial issues under the cloak of religious discussion.

Unless you would like to discuss the topic at hand, please refrain from posting in this thread.

Off-topic posts will be removed without further notice and lead to thread closure.

[Dodo25]

There is a common opinion among most people today that every theory science produces is an absolute fact. And that everything they read on wikipedia or watch on Discovery Channel is true. Well, this is wrong. There is debate among scientists on whether we can trust the dating methods used to determine the age of ancient fossils and other items. There are also many non-scientific reasons for why dating methods may be flawed. Let me use a simple example: When God created Adam and Eve, they were already adults, and a doctor would tell just the same. Why not think that when God created the Earth, it will, similar to the case of Adam and Eve, appear much older than its actual age?

There is a common opion among some people today that every dogma a specific religion (mostly the one of their parents) produces is an absolute fact. And that everything they read in their holy book is true. Well, this is wrong.

It is highly obvious, yet I'll still point it out: If you argue that religious issues are true because the Bible says so, you're using circular 'logic'.

Additionally, your criticism on science is completely wrong. Science is evidence based, it changes when the evidence changes, that's a strenght and not a weakness. When has religious dogma ever changed? You yourself exemplify this stubbornness by rejecting evidence-based (statistical) proof that people are born gay.

And about scientific theories, they're the product of a systematic process called the scientific method. Based on observations, (several) intelligent guess(es) (hypotheses) are formed. Then, the hypotheses are used to predict the outcome of experiments. Experiments are performed, and if they contradict the hypothesis, it is discarded. Only if a hypothesis has succesfully predicted the outcomes of many experiments, never has been falsified, and papers on it have stood up to critical peer review, a body of explanations eventually becomes a scientific theory.

Christians do not hold beliefs without evidence, science, on the other hand, often does. What proof do you have for the Big Bang theory? None. What proof do you have for dinosaurs living hundreds of millions of years ago? None.

Science doesn't hold beliefs without evidence, your statement just shows how your faith corrupts your thinking. You can't even represent the position of your 'opponents' objectively. The emphasis here rests on 'beliefs'. Scientists might have personal beliefs, and hypotheses, that only rest on intuiton (or even religiously motivated ideas, since there are also religious scientists). Yet the product of science, tested theories and results, are evidence-based, this is how it works, down to the very core of science.

And who are you to tell me that there is no proof for the big bang theory or for dinosaurs having lived (hundreds of) millions of years ago? First of all, I already told you that dating methods using different isotopes each independently reach the same conclusions. There is no controversy among scientists about this, it's just undamentalist Christian propaganda.

And have you ever looked into the science behind the big bang? Are you familiar with microwave background radiation and the Doppler shift? Have you studied the criteria for indicator stars and how light waves travel? I'm not going to spell it out for you because as Scher has pointed out, it would be off topic. Yet I would like you to reflect and think about your own reasoning and ignorance about particular subjects.

Christianity on the other hand answers both these questions. The Earth was created by a creator (which is logical when one thinks about it) and that life did not come to life out of nothing. And dinosaurs are documented in the Bible which is actually the most trustworthy ancient document. I think you should re-think your hasty statements and study the Christian points of view before you are too judgemental.

I've stated before that the idea of a creator is not logical at all, because the creator is more complicated than what you're trying to explain. Where did that come from, super creator?

And even if the Bible is the most trustworthy ancient document, and even if it were divenly inspired, many Biblical scholars argue against the interpretation of 'behemoth' and other 'creatures' being clear references to dinosaurs. Again, believers are bending the facts the way it suits them. If fossils weren't made of solid rock that you can actually touch, I'm pretty sure believers would deny that there even were dinosaurs.

And finally, I have read the Bible and studied the Christian point of view. I'm familiar with the arguments and I haven't heard anything new for a long time of discussing these matters with believers.

This is quite a long post and I think I've made my point. I might comment again if you respond to this, yet I definitely won't go into details again because I really think I've said enough.

[sports24x]

i believe in god because it inspires me..

[Serena03]

Judgment day tends to be the most common latent answer.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

No one are born homosexual. There are indeed some people that have tendencies to be homosexual, but this does not force them to be homosexual. These tendencies may have some genetic origin, but in the end it is a sin like every other sin that needs to be suppressed. I think it is more offensive to say that homosexuals are without choice than to say that they actually do have a choice.

My mouth literaly hung open as I read this. Just unbelievable.

[janeeyre88]

My belief in God started at a early age as my family have always been involved in the church. I was brought up in the Methodist faith and have continued to believe. Though these days I do not attend church, I still believe and always have a Bible in the house. I try to bring my daughter up with these beliefs. I admit as time has went on my relationship with God is not as strong as it once was, I guess due to life's problems. Though I do think there is evidence of God just by looking at nature.

[Alexander III]

Just wanted to state something general, but which I think should be stated.

Many on this thread have said things along the line of, probability wise there is barley a 0.01% chance og God existing, hence I define my self an atheist. And I agree, if your conception of god is a man in the clouds with a big beard, but lets face it, few people have that conception of god; and assuming that that is what people mean when they say god is rather ignorant and arrogant. On this forums almost all the members seem rather intelgint and cultured, so I doubt anyone here see's god as the big man in the clouds with the white beard.

The first problem in giving a probability which states the chance of god's existence is, what is god? unless you can answer that, you cant find a probability. Now if I said tell me what is the probability of gagblagoo, you would say what is gablagooo? It could be something as simple as a leaf or it could be something which does not exist. Only I know what Gagblagoo is. The same is the problem with god, except no one knows what god is, or can be or anything at all, so sating a probability for its existence is rather ridiculous and narrow-minded.

For example if we take a deist approach to god, as was common among the cultured men of the 18th and 19th century, how can you find a probability for it's existence....