Classical Listening

[Lokasenna]

I'm currently going on a bit of a Sibelius binge. His music has such a wonderfully dark and evocative power - he's very much a product of the wild Finnish landscape.

Like Beethoven, Sibelius's symphonies form the core of his work. I'm rather odd, insofar as my favourite is his 4th symphony, a piece that has divided critics since it was composed. But, for your (hopeful) pleasure, here it is:

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

[stlukesguild]

I was wondering if you could direct me to those French operas you were listening to sometime last year? I've a fancy to go over them, getting the opera itch, but can't seem to find the right page on the classical listening - it is a long thread.

If you have a name or link I'd appreciate it.

Thanks, Neely.

Neely, I moved this the the classical music discussion in order to allow for a longer response... and to allow any others who might be interested in on the dialog.

You are right... this thread has grown quite large. I browsed through a good portion of the thread in search of the French operas to which you refer. I remember that a bit over a year ago I was indeed making a concerted effort to broaden my collection of French music in general. First among these efforts was a greater collection of French Mélodies or French "art songs". I posted a three-part thread on this which I have re-posted (with a few editorial changes) to by blog:

http://heironymus62.tumblr.com/

I suspect, however, that the operas you refer to include, especially, the Baroque composers that I have been so deeply exploring over the past year and a half. Among these, the most important is Jean-Philippe Rameau. Rameau was afforded a marvelous concert of highlights performed by Mark Minkowski and les Musiciens du Louvres:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKvd4tMkFHc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNlvJRvjW7s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFeaX...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkWzh...eature=related

I have downloaded all I could find of this concert to my computer because I cannot find this concert for sale anywhere.

Rameau's masterpiece is quite possibly the opera, Les indes galantes
from which the opening selection above is taken. The performance of this opera by William Christie is certainly one of the greatest opera performances I have ever witnessed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zegtH-acXE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVrTHyV_Cbs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNvzn...eature=related

The visuals... including the marvelously exotic Daniele de Niese... are stunning. The dance sequences are beautiful. There is a perfect ballance of seriousness and campiness (how can you not love the god of war that looks like the lead singer from Twisted Sister???! I ran out and immediately bought this disc after seeing just a few highlights, and I was more than thrilled with the purchase:



Among the other great French baroque composers I have explored over the last year are:

Jean-Baptiste de Lully:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL6EtdH3bho

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsggm...eature=related

Of course Lully, like Rameau, and nearly any of the baroque French composers were masters of sacred choral music as well as opera:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMJwQ...eature=related

Lully has also been afforded one of the finest operatic productions available in recent years. His Cadmus et Hermoine was staged using costumes, lighting, special effects to mirror what was available during Lully's lifetime. The resulting work is quite magical:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqJZPzi_Odw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU6RV...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWS0L...eature=related



More to follow.....

[LitNetIsGreat]

Wow, thanks a lot, much appreciated.

Edit: oh boy, currently swept away with this stuff...

I have ordered the Philippe Jaroussky CD and Rameau’s opera Les indes galantes on DVD (which yes I had in mind).

Marvellous stuff, thanks.

[stlukesguild]

Beyond Lully and Rameau there were also

Marc-Antoine Charpentier

Michel Richard Delalande

and Jean-Joseph de Mondonville

All three are equally masterful... if not even better... as composers of sacred choral music.

Breaking away from the baroque I am less than overly experienced in French opera. Of course we have Berlioz' Les Troyens, and Bizet's Carmen... as well as his recently rehabilitated Pearldivers. From what I have read, the French opera really comes into its own... after a lull following the baroque... with the Romantic period... although the great German composer Gluck wrote many of his operas for the French audience... and Rosssini's last, William Tell. Massenet seems to have been the real central figure. Like Puccini he was a master melodist. Like Rameau he made the French language perfectly fitted for opera. For some time critical opinions were against him... not unlike those who have rejected Puccini, Rachmaninoff, and even Bizet as lacking "rigor". An absolute magnificent introduction to Massenet is this disc:



This exquisitely packaged CD perfromed by Richard Bonynge and the Australian Opera and ballet (and soloists) is a delicious introduction to Massenet. Massenet produced more operas of real merit than all but a few composers, including: Thais, Don Quichotte, Manon, Le Cid, Cendrillon, Herodiade, Esclarmonde, Werther, Sappho, etc... Thais, Manon, and Werther seem to be the most admired.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLOjFkKv_LI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLKEd...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNX-W...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPZlbhXPdVU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKNsz...eature=related

After Massenet you have Charles Gounod...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eIk5DWUx_E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fO78AqC1IE4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKRITskQsLU

Jacques Offenbach...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4hs7vW8SV0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u0M4CMq7uI

Leo Delibes Lakme...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qx2lMaMsl8

and Claude Debussy's Pelléas et Mélisande, deeply rooted in the operatic innovations of Richard Wagner:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuCmvQJamqQ

[LitNetIsGreat]

The Philippe Jaroussky CD has just arrived today so I will be listening to that later - it's just what I need after a hectic sort of week. I'm also looking forward to a concert next week featuring Mozart's Requiem as well as a little Vivaldi for starters.

[Gladys]

Jacques Offenbach...

After the fabulous Rameau, French composers have not been to my conservative taste, with the curious exception of Jacques Offenbach. How and why is he different? Is he simply earlier than the others?

J.Offenbach Cello Quartet (I): Adagio

J.Offenbach Cello Quartet (II): Scherzo

[Musicology]

As more music is recorded of little known Dresden Kapellmeister Jan Dimas Zelenka (1679-1745) it becomes clear this Bohemian was one of the major composers of western musical history. (Admired by Bach and many of his own musical contemporaries). Much of his music was lost during WW2 bombing of Dresden.

Missa Votiva
Credo
ZWV 18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAhAS...eature=related

2/4

Miserere
ZWV 57/1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG_nL...eature=related

3/4

Sanctus
Missa dei Patris -
Sanctus (7/8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nFPs...eature=related

4/4

Aria from Serenata
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RixQFqUvA5A

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Hey, StLukes, I just want to say thanks again for linking the Gustav Holst piece. I bought the planets suite and have probably listened to it a dozen times by now. Just amazing.

What do you think of this, StLukes (and anyone else)? I first came upon it due to the Emerson, Lake, and Palmer cover and love both versions (though, still have a soft spot for the ELP version, since it was the first I heard). Ginastera reportedly cried when he heard he liked it so much. I have his first two piano concertos ordered.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to some names I can put into Pandora to here some contemporary classical music? Aside from Philip Glass, that is, who I find kind of boring.

[Lokasenna]

Does anyone have any suggestions as to some names I can put into Pandora to here some contemporary classical music? Aside from Philip Glass, that is, who I find kind of boring.

Well, I agree about Philip Glass.

I'm not mad about any contemporary figures, but I've listened to a spot of Max Richter and Krzysztof Penderecki recently - they're pretty good.

[TacoButt]

Does anyone have any suggestions as to some names I can put into Pandora to here some contemporary classical music? Aside from Philip Glass, that is, who I find kind of boring.

If you are in an adventurist mood, look up my new favorite contemporary composers Giacinto Scelsi. Scelsi died in 1988 and doesn't have the prominent name that other composers have, but I find his music very intriguing.

Scelsi actually studied 12 tone music and wrote initially in that style (like Arvo Part). After a mental crisis, he left on a spiritual journey which took him to northern India where he began writing from a very Buddhist perspective.

The story of music in the 20th century seemed to have been a series of answers to the question of increasing Wagnerian chromaticism. Early, the 12 tone composers such as Webern and Schoenberg embraced more of a total democracy of the 12 pitches rather than emphasize tonal centers.

Their followers, such as Elliot Carter, Karlheinz Stockhausen, and Iannis Xenakis, et. al., began to highly organize ALL facets of music, including pitches.

Others later picked up on eastern philosophies and musical styles (such as Philip Glass) and created tonal and cellular music very opposed to this total organization. Cage embraced aspects of Zen and the iChing after his bout of 12 tone composing.

But Scelsi is like an island unto himself. HIS answer to the question of tonal exploration was to simplify and distill things down even much further than the minimalists. His pieces often tell musical stories from a single note! He wrings more "juice" out of one note than many composers do with all 12!

But far from boring or tedious, Scelsi's compositions employ melodies of tonal COLOR and shading and microtonal variation. Microtones are the use of divisons of the octave greater than 12. But the way Scelsi uses microtones is very specific. He almost always uses them as tonal or color fluctuations of a central pitch.

The effect, at least to me, is reminiscent of the low fluctuating trumpet tones and explosive percussion of Buddhist ceremonies. His music is like a very deep meditation on a single sound. The sound is painted very musically and expands the meaning of "melody."

Where Beethoven created entire stories of a three-note motive in a movement, Scelsi does the same, but on a different dimension. I remember learning a German term which Schoenberg himself, I think, called "Klangfarbenmelodie." It means something like the creation of melody from color or shading. Whereas other composers use color increasingly as an ELEMENT of melody, Scelsi focusses DEEPLY on timbral melody to the frequent exclusion of pitch melody.

(Have you ever contemplated that melodic organization can be independent of pitch? Yes, it can!)

I would suggest trying a variety of pieces for different instruments. The compositions for string ensembles will make my shaky explanations much clearer.

[LitNetIsGreat]

Currently listening to various genuine Mozart pieces (adding a little sanity to the music forum). Also in the middle of the Rameau opera and have been playing Jaroussky a lot over the last few weeks.

Mozart's Violin Concerto 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGgrv3jezfY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QlyM...1&feature=fvwp

Disappointed in that I was supposed to be going to a Vivaldi and Mozart thing at the City Hall but when I got there for on-the-day tickets ("they never ever sell out of standby tickets so I would get them on the day") they had sold out - so we had a few drinks and played the quiz machines all night??. Still, I've got a Mozart opera in April to look forward to, La Clemenza di Tito, and loads of music in the round stuff, so no real worries - I'm a busy boy though at the moment, it's rubbish, bring on April and May!

[stlukesguild]

Does anyone have any suggestions as to some names I can put into Pandora to here some contemporary classical music? Aside from Philip Glass, that is, who I find kind of boring.

Steve Reich
John Adams
Osvaldo Golijov
Henryck Gorecki
Veljo Tormis
Tristan Murail
Daniel Catan
Einojuhani Rautavaara
Hans Werner Henze
György Ligeti
Thomas Adès
Valentin Silvestrov.
Terry Riley
Wolfgang Rihm
Tan Dun
Erkki-Sven Tüür
David Lang
John Corigliano
Gian Carlo Menotti
Sofia Gubaidulina
John Zorn
Gérard Grisey
Julian Anderson
Elliott Carter
Milton Babbitt
George Crumb
Alfred Schnittke
Lorenzo Palomo
Frank Martin
Yannis Markopoulos
Vladimir Godar
Peteris Vasks
Joseph Schwantner
William Bolcolm
James Macmillan
Julian Wachner
John Harbison
Jake Heggie
Tarik O'Regan
John Rutter
John Tavener
Alan Hovhaness
Ned Rorem
David Diamond
George Rochberg
Lee Hoiby
Toru Takemitsu
Paul Moravec
Kenneth Fuchs
Eric Whitacre
Nikolai Kapustin
Roberto Gerhard
Mario Castelnuovo-Tedesco
Giacinto Scelsi
Alfredo Casella
Boris Tchaikovsky
Gian Carlo Menotti
Leonard Bernstein
Arvo Part
Morton Feldman
Iannis Xenakis
Alberto Ginastera
Silvestre Revueltas
Bohuslav Martinu
Pascal Dusapin
Kaija Saariaho
Peter Lieberson

This should get Pandora rolling with a selection of contemporary and near contemporary composers from around the globe.

[Mutatis-Mutandis]

Lol, thanks, StLukes. Any particulars from that list you especially like?

[stlukesguild]

If you are in an adventurist mood, look up my new favorite contemporary composers Giacinto Scelsi. Scelsi died in 1988 and doesn't have the prominent name that other composers have, but I find his music very intriguing.

Yes... I love Scelsi's work. As you note his music breaks away from the stranglehold of atonalism and returns to a a tonalism that in many ways echoes some of the experimentation of the Minimalists with Eastern music and microtones... but taken, as you note, to an absolute extreme. The music seems to share elements with Minimalism... as well as with the Spectralism of Grisey, Tristan Murail, Kaija Saariaho, and Julian Anderson... and yet stands completely on its own. Personally, I find the music quite hypnotic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tScH89jmcVM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnacs3kPg-I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLi3x...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWeqZ...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv21u...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEQ8Q...eature=related

Lol, thanks, StLukes. Any particulars from that list you especially like?

I highlighted my personal favorites... but these are in no way intended as a suggestion of "better" or "worse". My own tastes lean toward vocal music... especially choral... and away from atonal music. The highlighted composers are simply those who have really engaged me. In most instances I have several discs by each of them. But exploring contemporary music is different from exploring the older "classics" in that with the older music, the hard work of discerning "better" and "best" has been done for us by time. We're also confronting artists who are working in a language which in many cases has not been absorbed by the culture and so it can be quite challenging at times..

[TacoButt]

to St. Luke's...my god, you're like a veritable walking encyclopedia!