Oh, oh, my head is spinning reading all that!!! Tin hats, tin hats!!
Sorry, forgot this one:
Really? Wow, another myth I've swallowed then. I'll add that to the list as well...But let's not talk of Shakespeare, whose authorship of plays is itself a matter that has been debunked for almost 200 years itself.
Anything else to note? Darwin? Moon landing? The African continent?
Yanni,
I prefer not to rely dogmatically on any timelines. We see yours collapsed when you were asked to tell us the conception dates of JS Bach's numerous children - and we are still laughing.
Otherwise there is no problem with timelines. They have an obvious value if data is connected to other data. But they are rarely conclusive in themselves. History happens in a context. That means it relates to more than one subject. Timelines are one of many tools.
Regards
Neely,
You have read the article on the 'Two Antifonas', haven't you ?
a. Yes ?
b. No ?
or
c. You can't remember ?
Shall I post you the link again (for the 5th time on this thread) ?? Here it is -
Luca Bianchini
''The Two Antifonas (1770)''
aka 'Mozart, 'Genius' and Exam Fakery (1770)''
http://www.mediafire.com/?y6x6caeo2a84yfj
(Hopefully this will deal with your spinning head).
Regards
Originally Posted by Neely
Sorry, forgot this one:
Really? Wow, another myth I've swallowed then. I'll add that to the list as well...
Anything else to note? Darwin? Moon landing? The African continent?
Last edited by Musicology; 01-30-2011 at 01:39 PM.
Now, now, Neely let's not be disingenuous, you know as well as anybody that the Shakespeare conundrum has been frequently discussed on Litnet without resolution.:
Really? Wow, another myth I've swallowed then. I'll add that to the list as well...
Anything else to note? Darwin? Moon landing? The African continent?
"L'art de la statistique est de tirer des conclusions erronèes a partir de chiffres exacts." Napoléon Bonaparte.
"Je crois que beaucoup de gens sont dans cet état d’esprit: au fond, ils ne sentent pas concernés par l’Histoire. Mais pourtant, de temps à autre, l’Histoire pose sa main sur eux." Michel Houellebecq.
Brian is completely correct. The issue has certainly not been resolved. It remains open. And therefore is unresolved. Few want to touch it who are of a conventional (mythological) disposition. Many questions remain on the official career of William Shakespeare of Stratford on Avon. And these have been known and spoken of for over 200 years. Why, there are entire books on the subject. Whole website articles. As Brian can confirm. The world is really a better, more healthy place when convention and monoculture on Shakespeare and on Mozart is open and seen to be open to criticism. I think it's called academic study.
Now, now, Neely let's not be disingenuous, you know as well as anybody that the Shakespeare conundrum has been frequently discussed on Litnet without resolution.
Last edited by Musicology; 01-30-2011 at 01:55 PM.
Now, now, Neely let's not be disingenuous, you know as well as anybody that the Shakespeare conundrum has been frequently discussed on Litnet without resolution.
Yet the responsibility for proof sits upon him who challenges the accepted facts. The Shakespearean theorists are not in themselves unified as to just who the proposed author is: Marlowe? Francis Bacon? Edward de Vere, Earl of Oxford? William Stanley, Earl of Derby? The one thing that all of these theories share is a certain class resentment... an assumption that no "commoner" such as poor Will could possibly have written literature of such quality. The greatest writer in the whole of the English language... if not in the whole of history... most certainly must have been a proper aristocrat. If the question of Shakespeare's authorship remains unresolved, it only remains so for the simple fact that we shall always have the lunatic fringe and conspiracy theorists with us. Undoubtedly there are those who question the "authorship" of Bach, Handel, Michelangelo, Rembrandt, Rubens, Titian, Dante, Virgil, etc... etc... as well as the truth of the Lincoln assassination, the Kennedy assassination, the Lusitania, the Titanic, the Moon-landing, 911, and the deaths of Elvis and Michael Jackson.
Beware of the man with just one book. -Ovid
The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the man who can't read them.- Mark Twain
My Blog: Of Delicious Recoil
http://stlukesguild.tumblr.com/
It is rather obvious who has the answer.
Someone tenacious enough to have a double life. To create 2 different personalities. Someone which attempts to write plays on his own language was a complete failure, overshadowed by his peers. Someone which poetic attempts are clusmy due the limitation of the language he found.
Yet, someone with great literary talent. Someone which sense of humor is imense. Someone who died on the same day Shakespeare did.
Yes, you all know who I am talking about.
After all, how come Cervantes could have such talent and be such failure, mediocre while using poetry and playwritting? Because he, on purpose created this Sancho poet, a mediocre version of himself to preserve his money earning in england, something unthinkable for both kings were enemies at that time. Marlowe discovered it and was killed. Cervantes had militar training after all, defeating a gay and drunkyard writer was quite easy. That is so obvious.
See, Cervantes lost hand? A joke - that was his Shakespeare hand!
Are we going to deny the obvious similarities between those portraits?
Only a genius like Cervantes, who inveted Don Quixote, could invent Shakespeare.
Well, against my better judgement I downloaded the link (saved it first!) and started to read it a little. But then I thought, what the hell am I doing reading this link which has been posted by a Mozart, Shakespeare, Einstein denying political conspiracy theorist, chem trail fan, who believes that the earth is fixed in space and who knows the truth of climate change? I thought, seriously I have better things to do.
Neely is so smart he posts on this thread on subjects that have absolutely nothing to do with the thread itself. This is normal. (He comes from that sort of culture and it's par for the course in his mind).
He can't even read the PDF which was offered at the start of the thread. He saved it but couldn't continue. No, he is not dumbed down. You musn't think that ! He is a brilliant scholar. Reading it would require him to switch off his ball game to make any real progress. 'Mozart, Genius and Exam Fakery (1770)' is a subject he needs to read on before he actually comments on it, don't you agree ? What a funny man he is ! There is your modern education in a nutshell !!! What a dumbed down generation ! LOL !!!
Laugh or cry - he loves fooling himself. And so, once again - Mr Horse, here is some Water -
Luca Bianchini
''The Two Antifonas (1770)''
aka 'Mozart, 'Genius' and Exam Fakery (1770)''
http://www.mediafire.com/?y6x6caeo2a84yfj
We really should send him a six pack of beer if he actually reads it. Because that boy has great career prospects if he continues much longer. Mozart was a genius. We all 'know' that, don't we ? Quick, pass me another beer ! 'Everything you've heard is true' says the trailer to that film, 'Amadeus' (as we all know). LOL !!
Last edited by Musicology; 01-30-2011 at 02:51 PM.
As Your Grace prefers!
Yanni, the quality of your last post is definitely far higher than those of the last few hours.
Does this fact please you ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGuOVXM-J_U&feature=fvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtTIl...eature=related
Regards
As Your Grace prefers!
Last edited by Musicology; 01-30-2011 at 03:17 PM.
By all means send me the beer... Really, you can't expect people to take you seriously, can you?
Really? I think it is quite fundamental. You post all sorts of nonsense and then get mad when nobody takes you seriously!! Ever heard of the boy who cried wolf? You are that boy, except this time, there is no wolf.Neely is so smart he posts on this thread on subjects that have absolutely nothing to do with the thread itself.
Enjoy your evening.
.....
"L'art de la statistique est de tirer des conclusions erronèes a partir de chiffres exacts." Napoléon Bonaparte.
"Je crois que beaucoup de gens sont dans cet état d’esprit: au fond, ils ne sentent pas concernés par l’Histoire. Mais pourtant, de temps à autre, l’Histoire pose sa main sur eux." Michel Houellebecq.
St Lukesguild has raised some interesting points. They all have in common the fact that powerful evidence exists to show the official version of what we teach and believe cannot possibly be correct. Shakespeare is a plain example. The Titanic another. The Moonlandings, 9/11, the Kennedy Assassination etc. There is nobody today who can honestly say the official story on all of these is consistent with itself or with the evidence that has been presented against them over the years. That's just honest and plain fact. And that means, in the real world, criticism and cross-examination is vital, ongoing and should never be stopped. Unless we wish to deny facts are contradicting what we believe.
Since this thread is really on Mozart and his legendary talents (which I wish to remain the subject of this thread) I believe the subject here (the exam taken by the 14 year old Mozart in 1770) deserves to be read and considered in the light of what modern researchers have actually discovered on it. Which you can read here for yourself. Freely and without any obligation. Such things really are the product of great research. That article is the most detailed of its kind made in 200 years of Mozart research. Show us differently if you can. Whether or not it contradicts what we have read and been taught. If someone thinks differently they are free to tell us their own view. (You notice they have nothing much to say of the actual subject ? Wonder why ? It's because there is really nothing they can say). Let's see if time will rescue convention from the well known story. Because there are a whole series of similar articles that can be posted on Mozart's career of a similar kind. I hope those who don't want to consider such things will find another thread to read and post on. The 'official' version is ALWAYS wrong. Start there. Common sense is not 'out there'. It's right between your ears.
Luca Bianchini
''The Two Antifonas (1770)''
aka 'Mozart, 'Genius' and Exam Fakery (1770)''
http://www.mediafire.com/?y6x6caeo2a84yfj
Thanks
Last edited by Musicology; 01-30-2011 at 03:41 PM.
Oh, Musicology - thank you for such a fantastic reply! I can honestly say that I haven't laughed this hard in weeks.
Oh yes! As one who studies mythologies, our modern myth-making is just as psychologically fascinating to me as those our forefathers dreamed up.You are 'rather fond of conspiracy theories' ? For their own sake.
Au contraire! You're one of my best sources for them!I am sorry I cannot help with your conspiracy theories.
They are not.They are established facts.
Golly! All that twaddle processed while I was sleeping!While you were sleeping they have been proved.
I think you and I have a very different definition of 'fact'...All we have are plain facts.
...and indeed what constitutes 'evidence'Products of examining the evidence.
Yep.And when you are presented with these documentary, plain facts on a highly specific and important case you reply with the masterful answer of, 'So what' ??? LOL !!!
My education leads me to look at things sensibly and rationally. Occam's razor, my dear fellow!This is your attitude so far !! Your education (so-called) causes you to say this. What does this attitude of yours tell us about this subject which we do not already know ?
Well, I did decide to do a PhD on Norse literature... for most people, that probably isn't worth knowing about. Score one to you, old boy!And what does it say of the state of your education ? Nothing worth knowing.
'"What sort of person," said Salzella patiently, "sits down and writes a maniacal laugh? And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Four? A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head. Opera can do that to a man."' - Terry Pratchett, Maskerade.And you haven't even read it !!!! I mean - LOL !!!
Nope, we shall descibe it as an example of MediaFire being on the University's list of blocked websites. Why that is, I can't imagine - there's obviously so much educational material on it.Shall we describe this as an example of a dumbed down student struggling to open a PDF ?
Crikey, that's an endorsement! Thanks, M!You certainly deserve and will no doubt receive a round of applause from those as educated as yourself. Having said nothing you do seem destined for high position, for sure. LOL !!
Have you ever stopped to wonder why they have been ignored or trivialised?I am 'peddling' nothing. I am presenting and freely sharing (and so are others) documentary, indisputable evidence. Of a kind which, so far, has been simply ignored or trivialised. For over 200 years.
Not at all! I've simply long since stopped caring, dear boy!And you seem unable to handle this fact.
Right now, I'm listening to the 20th Piano Concerto. I need no further proof of genius.You are, you say, appreciating the musical 'genius' of Mozart. What 'genius' are you actually talking about ?
Come now, let's be honest - the topic of the exam is nothing more than a springboard for you to attack Mozart as a whole. You do, and quote, refer to him as "a giant musical fraud" do you not?His ability to fake music exams at the age of 14 ? Which is really the subject of this thread.
Leopold Mozart, his father. This is well know history, my dear fellow!Who were his music teachers ?
What, you mean why do they print established truth instead of ranted nonsense? I think the reasons are pretty obvious.Why do your biographies and textbooks conceal these facts ? Can you please tell us ?
Leopold Mozart, his father. On a related note, I'd love to see Mozart flying a jet airliner - presumably he'd be releasing chemicals into the sky while doing so?Who taught Mozart the equivalent of flying a jet airliner (the writing of symphonies, concertos and masses) ?
Um, yes he was. His Toy Symphony is still regularly performed even today.Since his father was not trained in music also.
Neither did Einstien. Oh, hang on - you don't believe in him either, do you old boy? What about Dickens, Bruckner, Churchill, Benjamin Franklin, Robert Frost, C. S. Lewis, Mendelssohn, Shaw and Twain, to name but a few of the many famous people who never went to school.And Wolfgang never went to school in his entire lifetime. Not a single day !
Yep. The telescope is a pretty recent invention, but I still use it to look at events that happened thousands of years ago.The word 'genius' is itself an 18th century invention. Don't you know that ?
Not particularly.Want some more articles on that ???
You refer to the 'vast number of people who appreciate the genius of Mozart'.There are, I understand, lots of contemporary accounts of Mozart. Plenty of letters have been preserved as well. As someone who is leaning heavily on one piece of 'evidence', you shouldn't poke holes, my dear fellow!You refer to the 'vast number of people who appreciate the genius of Mozart'. How many of them have the remotest idea of the actual details of his life and career ? From which source have they 'learned' of it ? How many have fairly examined the evidence ?
Says the man armed with a thousand loopy websites! And if you're referring to Amadeus, I've never seen it. Looks quite good though!Other than what they have read in nonsense publications and see in popularised eulogies in films ?
I've no idea where this idea has come from, old boy! Are the voices coming through loud and clear?At the expense of the lives and careers of hundreds, no, thousands of composers whose names (let alone music) are completely unknown to them !!
I think that answers itself.What sort of education is that ? Really ? It is not only ignorance but wilful ignorance, isn't it ??
Sorry, my old mucker! The server says no, so there'll be no looking at that article for me!Why not do yourself a favour ? Read the article. If you don't understand it take it to someone who does. And wait for their verdict. Does it get more simple ? I mean, can I make it more simple ?
I wouldn't be having this conversation if I didn't.You do like reality, don't you ?
I refer you to the aforementionedpiano concerto. Seems pretty solidly recorded to me, dear boy!The 'quality of Mozart's music speaks for itself' ? Really ? Would you care to give us some examples of it so we can see its origins, its history and its publication dates ?
Here is a thread.Here is a horse.
Here is a river
(The river contains lots of water)
Question - Now that the horse has been led to the water can it be forced to drink it ? I think we know the answer.
Here is a troll
(The thread contains a lot of twaddle)
I think the quality of this debate is a little beneath them. Just because something isn't dignified with a response, it doesn't mean it gains any form of legitimacy.And where are those experts when we need them ?
Once again, thank you M! I find your particular brand of venom most refreshing!
"I should only believe in a God that would know how to dance. And when I saw my devil, I found him serious, thorough, profound, solemn: he was the spirit of gravity- through him all things fall. Not by wrath, but by laughter, do we slay. Come, let us slay the spirit of gravity!" - Nietzsche
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