World War Two Historical Fiction: Arizona I remember you

(Note: I need to reduce this post to an excerpt because one of the magazines I sent this to says they won't take stuff already available on the web. Sorry.)

December 7th, 1941
USS Enterprise (CV-6), 150 miles west of the Hawaiian Islands

SBD Dauntlesses shot down the olive drab-stained deck as the rising sun caressed the flight deck in its golden rays, each plane watched by eyes hidden beneath a craggy brow; Admiral Bill Halsey’s brow. The boss away up on the open flag bridge looking on with pride in his heart as each pilot from Scouting and Bombing Six throttled up, awaited their turn, then charged down the deck at the drop of a check-ered flag like birds freed from their cage.

All SBD’s save the one assigned to escort air group commander Howard Young on his direct flight into Pearl Harbor joined up on air group commander Halstead Hopping as they circled the task force, looking to Halsey from his perch below like a flock of blue steel geese with multicolored stars on their wings, almost lost in the cobalt blue sky save for their grey underbellies.

Launch complete, the covey then split up into groups of two, each headed for search sectors sketched out in pencil on their pilot’s plot boards.

The Japanese still had not yet declared war, which meant the Enterprise’s recent sortie to deliver a Marine fighter squadron to Wake Atoll had been a milk run, but even this close to home Halsey was not taking chances.

I hate to "bump" this (a no-no at some boards), but I want to say for those who are curious that the text keeps changing since my inital post because I am dilligently proofreading this and want its preview here to reflect that.

Not my preferred genre - I have an aversion to anything remotely historical or based on real events - so I'm unable to comment, except to applaud the effort you have obviously put into this.

H

I would suggest you edit the format in which you have posted - one big blog of words. A story needs to be broken up into paragraphs for readability and I'm sure this will help. As for the content, I'm sure some will enjoy it. Others will be hurt too.

Delta40-

How can I paragraph this properly without butchering the story flow?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kangels4ever

Delta40-

How can I paragraph this properly without butchering the story flow?

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I think Delta means line spacing between every paragraph.

Like this.

It makes it easier to read on a compter screen.

Probably not the astute critique you were hoping for - but if people can't read it they're never going to comment.

H

I can read it. It's pretty neat. But I am a historian and I fill the gaps. It's probably very difficult stuff for most people here. Most people don't realize how meaninful this stuff was.

@cafolini

Thanks for your kind comments.
As far as the "gaps" are concerned, remember, this is a work of historical fiction, not a non-fiction article for, say, World War Two magazine which could go into more detail.
I did make sure to include a brief summary of the passage of time in between Pearl and Midway so readers would not be lost in the time jump. Beyond that, the dictates of the genre mean I must risk readers not getting how meaningful the events depicted are (sad as that is). Folks will get out of it what they will. I'm not an artist obsessed with putting in "messages" to get across like some supposedly try to do. I just want to tell a story I find gripping and share it with others like the story of this real-life person.

So let me get this right when I write about the comaraderie between Bin Laden's men coupled with bringing down the twin towers as a historical piece on blowing all those *&^% yanks into kingdom come, you'd write 'great piece and an accurate reflection of history!'

All you have done is recite an event doused in thick American patriotism as a way to insult Japanese people and have the audacity to say how sad it is that the reader cannot appreciate the meaningfulness where I suspect what you're actually saying is that people can't appreciate how meaningful this event it is to you.

Keep in mind that the meaning of any event is in the mind, heart and eye of the beholder.

@Delta40:

I knew people would be upset about my depictions of WWII in the Pacific, especially how the Americans felt about the Japanese then.

Here's the deal why I do it the way I do:

My depictions of the feelings of Lt. Gallaher are not patriotic. Rather, I based them off something I discovered by pure chance on Memorial Day in 2005 when I had the honor of going to lunch with members of my local Pearl Harbor Survivor's Association chapter.

When I asked one of the survivors -who had escaped the USS Oklahoma- what his feelings were about the Japanese, he told me he still hated them. At least two other survivors at my table nodded in agreement.

Riding the light rail train home, I couldn't help but reflect on how deep trauma can hurt people.

Would you rather I have done what Hollywood did ten years ago, shove a dumb romance into the story of Pearl Harbor in a rip off of "From Here To Eternity"? What those survivors brought home to me that day was how violent a trauma it was.

I based Lt. Gallaher's emotions in part off of what he told author John Toland in the book mentioned at the end of my inital post, the rest off of what those survivors who still hated the Japanese revealed to me at that lunch: not a man who had gotten caught by that surprise attack came out with love in their hearts for their enemy. Yes, some survivors after the war made amends, but many still have not nor ever will. And it would have been phony of me to instead have had, say, the Americans greet the Japanese at Midway singing "Kumbaya" without a shot fired. Especially from the likes of Pearl Harbor survivors like Lt. Gallaher who fought hard that day.

If you ask me, next time before you go off yelling about dramatic depictions of WWII in the Pacific that would "insult Japanese people", try talking to one of the soldiers, sailors, and Marines who had to fight them. Especially of said warriors had been at Pearl Harbor on December 7th, 1941.

And by the way: your comment about me probably writing something complimentary of Bin Laden's butchery at the Twin Towers was, in my opinion, mean spirited and uncalled for.

Look I appreciate your reply. My friends late father fought in WWII and hated the Japanese till his dying breath. I understand that perfectly. If I remember correctly, historically the only good Jap was a dead one so what's the difference when an Iraqi says the only good American is a dead one?

I won't take back what I said about the twin towers because it's true that a multitude of people throughout the world hail those men as heroes and will also hate Americans till their dying breath. Are you going to deny that fact?

It's ok for us to disagree on this. You are most welcome to your view and I am equally welcome to mine. It really isn't worth debating.

I look forward to reading more of your stories in the future.

Well, I am an American I would not ever cheer what happened at the WTC and am glad, glad, gald Bin Laden is dead.

Thank you for your clarifying post, and I withdraw my "mean spirited" comment related to your WTC post.

I too look forward to reading your stories in the future. :-)

Let's be friends!

Well she's all done! Wish me luck getting this published, my friends. :-)

Good Luck Kangels. I'm always glad to hear when someone gets published and you must let us know how you go.

Fingers crossed for you :-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kangels4ever

@cafolini

Thanks for your kind comments.
As far as the "gaps" are concerned, remember, this is a work of historical fiction, not a non-fiction article for, say, World War Two magazine which could go into more detail.
I did make sure to include a brief summary of the passage of time in between Pearl and Midway so readers would not be lost in the time jump. Beyond that, the dictates of the genre mean I must risk readers not getting how meaningful the events depicted are (sad as that is). Folks will get out of it what they will. I'm not an artist obsessed with putting in "messages" to get across like some supposedly try to do. I just want to tell a story I find gripping and share it with others like the story of this real-life person.

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Fair enough.

@Delta.
Thanks for the good wishes!
Unfortunately, too late I detected several "soft spots" in the story style-wise which threatened to send this into the rejection pile, so I bit the bullet and sent in a submission cancellation explaining I wanted to send a better text. *Crosses fingers*

We all have them. Read my short story called Shirlene and all the soft spots in it. I'm yet to edit it from the suggestions made before submitting myself!

Let me know what you think and I'm still crossing my fingers for you!

Okay. If anybody reads this and sees a typo, please let me know.
Submitting a short story is a one-shot thing. I don't want to mess things up this time like I did last week on my abortive run with this to Fiction365 (which still hasn't acknowledged my cancellation request.)
Thanks!

Okay, I'm done tweaking this except for typos. Again, if anybody sees a typo, either post or PM me. I intend to start shopping this around tomorrow.
Thanks!

This is a much better read than your first post Kangels. There are still some grammatical errors but historically it speaks much clearer and the format is much better.

I’ll admit I’ve only skimmed through this because this was not my cup of tea – I didn’t really have the patience to trawl every line for typos since after a while the entire piece blurred into rather a tangled mess of sinking ships. But I did become increasingly discouraged by the amount of military-speak; presumably this will only be understood by a select band of readers. So on that basis this will restrict the market for such writing - though I’m assuming you have already researched magazines that specialise in this kind of material.

The only typo I did spot was : With McClusky wounded in the arm during the morning attack, Lieutenant Gallaher took command tor lead an afternoon strike…

For what it’s worth, as an uninvolved reader, I found the overt display of machismo and gung-ho patriotism very unsettling. This is unlikely to appeal to most contemporary readers which will limit your chances of getting published. Your authorial voice is extremely intrusive – the characters appear to be quoting your thoughts and feelings rather than their own judging by the style you have chosen in which to report events. So it is impossible to differentiate your own emotions from those of the main players - and this could work against you when seeking publication in any mainstream magazine. However, I’m guessing there must be a market for such material out there somewhere so I wish you luck with your submission.

H

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hillwalker

I’ll admit I’ve only skimmed through this because this was not my cup of tea – I didn’t really have the patience to trawl every line for typos since after a while the entire piece blurred into rather a tangled mess of sinking ships. But I did become increasingly discouraged by the amount of military-speak; presumably this will only be understood by a select band of readers. So on that basis this will restrict the market for such writing - though I’m assuming you have already researched magazines that specialise in this kind of material.

The only typo I did spot was : With McClusky wounded in the arm during the morning attack, Lieutenant Gallaher took command tor lead an afternoon strike…

For what it’s worth, as an uninvolved reader, I found the overt display of machismo and gung-ho patriotism very unsettling. This is unlikely to appeal to most contemporary readers which will limit your chances of getting published. Your authorial voice is extremely intrusive – the characters appear to be quoting your thoughts and feelings rather than their own judging by the style you have chosen in which to report events. So it is impossible to differentiate your own emotions from those of the main players - and this could work against you when seeking publication in any mainstream magazine. However, I’m guessing there must be a market for such material out there somewhere so I wish you luck with your submission.

H

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Perhaps you will have a hard time getting published. But it doesn't matter. The important thing is the description, which is accurate within the fantasy. Mainstream of today is not as important as those who gave their lives to protect the freedom that allows many different mainstreams of today.
On the other hand, if you go to the right place with this, you might get published. And no matter what, you already got published here and got the attention of many.

@Hillwalker:

Thanks for the typo spotting, but I disagree with your diagnosis about the story structure.

I've yet to meet a Pearl Harbor survivor who told me to my face he forgave the Japanese. If my depiction of American hatred of their enemy is unsettling to you, well, I'm sorry, but that is the raw, emotional truth about December 7th, 1941: hatred.

I myself am outraged by what happened that day, but I learned to curb it so I could view the tragedy from both sides without letting the Japanese war lords off the hook for stabbing a brother country in the back under cover of negotiating peace and would not depict the Japanese fliers as monsters from a WWII propaganda melodrama but flesh-and-blood three dimensonal people who also were warriors ordered by their leaders to go commit something terrible. (And for the record, many of those guys who survived the war came back to us later saying how sorry they were and apologized starting with the man who led the attack, Mitsuo Fuchida.)

Also, combat pilots seems to have machismo in their viens. If I had depicted Gallaher as, say, dull as a bored grocery store clerk instead it would have been phony.

I also don't get where you came up with the idea that "... the characters appear to be quoting your thoughts and feelings rather than their own judging by the style you have chosen in which to report events ..." That is news to me, because I was doing my best to follow the track of logic set out by a favorite author of mine -Jeff Shaara- who once described it as:


"There is an enormous risk in putting words in the mouth of, not only a real historical figure, but a figure who carries the iconic status of a Lee or Grant, Lincoln, or Washington. That adds considerably to the responsibility I feel about doing the right kind of research. If I intend to put you into the mind of one of these characters, then I must first go there myself, through whatever original sources are available. In most cases, I rely on diaries, letters, memoirs, the accounts of people who were there with these characters. I am painfully aware that some writers have no qualms about imposing modern thought processes, modern terminology, or modern interpretations of 19th century figures. I despise that kind of storytelling. Before I can ever write the first word of dialog, I have to hear those words myself, as each character might have spoken them. I have to feel I know the character personally, as though I was standing beside him or her when the words were spoken. I can never claim of course, that any one of these people actually said, word for word what I write. But, I am very comfortable that, in every case, they could have, that each of these conversations could have taken place."

(From an interview with The Copperfield Review: http://www.copperfieldreview.com/interviews/shaara.html)

I applied the same logic to this story to the best of my ability here and the resources at hand. I wanted to plunge into the past and give a glimpse of it while at the same time showing that those who took part in them were people of flesh and blood, not living gods or saints.

As far as my emotions go? Dude, I put my whole passion for these two events into this project.

As far as markets go: I've found several via Duotrope's digest, and historical fiction itself is quite popular. Jeff Shaara's novels alone almost always wind up on a New York Times bestseller list.

and Gallaher thought Better check the homing signal
Gallaher paused, hand on throat, realized My God, this is not another drill.
Gallaher smiled again, thought We did it.

Halsey looks on with pride in two paragraphs. Suggest you re-write one.

The thoughts should be dialogue framed.

@Delta

So I should frame a character's thoughts like this:

"Better check the homing signal"

instead of

Better check the homing signal

or Better check the homing signal?

The last one was how I was planning to frame character thoughts because two writers whose books I've enjoyed -Tom Clancy and David Housewright- frame character thoughts in that manner.

Or am I mistaken as to what you meant?

I'vel tweaked the thing about Admiral Halsey. Thanks for catching it! :-)

I have no doubt that the events at Pearl Harbour will never fade from the memories of those who were there - nor should they be allowed to. And I take your point that portraying Gallaher as a disinterested grocery clerk would be unrealistic.

But you are allowing your own emotive feelings regarding this incident to intrude upon your chronicle to such an extent that it reads more like a personal rant than an informed narrative. You have obviously carried out a great deal of research and interviewed men who witnessed these atrocities so I feel you are doing them a disservice by littering the piece with lazy expletives and cliched expressions of horror that one might see in a comic strip.

If your intention is to treat the matter seriously then you need to wield a subtler implement than this battle-axe you are waving around. It comes across as rabble-rousing rather than accurate reporting and that's why I feel you will find it difficult to get published in a mainstream magazine.

Of course, this is only my personal opinion and I guess I'm telling you something you'd rather not hear. There's a lot of blood, sweat and tears gone into writing this and so I feel it would be a shame if iyour efforts got overlooked just because you let your emotions run away with you. It's a tricky business trying to get your readers fired up and outraged about something dear to your heart without undermining their involvement. Unfortunately, when I read this I didn't feel part of the events - nor was I able to engage with any of the characters - so your attempt to draw me in fell short. But I still genuinely wish you well with your mission.

H

Good thing I decided to wait a couple more days before launching this: I just discovered I'd gotten the name of one of the Hawaiian Islands mentioned wrong. Shows what this dude from the main land knows.

@Hillwalker:

You said "But you are allowing your own emotive feelings regarding this incident to intrude upon your chronicle to such an extent that it reads more like a personal rant than an informed narrative. You have obviously carried out a great deal of research and interviewed men who witnessed these atrocities so I feel you are doing them a disservice by littering the piece with lazy expletives and cliched expressions of horror that one might see in a comic strip."

1. Bad language wise: Military folks are not known for speaking the King's english, especially while in combat.

2. If I did not put my personal passion into the "show, don't tell" aspect of this story, the text would be dull as dishwater. A good story has passion and emotion pumped into it, especially if it deals with traumatic events that shook the globe.

I know historical stuff is not your forte, so I do take that into account feedback-wise, but I think a story is a story is a story, be it is something like mine or the contemporary fiction which is Delta's forte or introspective fiction like you have a knack for.