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I'm starting this thread to talk about the great arab poet Nizar Qabbani and his wonderful poems which were elegant and deep , I love all his works and my favourite poem is the Jasmine chain and I'd like for all the people who love his works as much as I do to join here and talk about him and his works.
Oh I'm going mad, I want to read him so badly, but I'm not fluent enough in Arabic to be able to read him. My Mom constantly tells me tales about him.
do you have a link to his writings??:)Quote:
Originally Posted by samah
Ok I found this one translated to englishQuote:
Originally Posted by mazHur
The Epic of Sadness
Your love taught me to grieve
and I have been in need, for centuries
a woman to make me grieve
for a woman, to cry upon her arms
like a sparrow
for a woman to gather my pieces
like shards of broken crystal
Your love has taught me, my lady, the worst habits
it has taught me to read my coffee cups
thousands of times a night
to experiment with alchemy,
to visit fortune tellers
It has taught me to leave my house
to comb the sidewalks
and search your face in raindrops
and in car lights
and to peruse your clothes
in the clothes of unknowns
and to search for your image
even.....even.....
even in the posters of advertisements
your love has taught me
to wander around, for hours
searching for a gypsies hair
that all gypsies women will envy
searching for a face, for a voice
which is all the faces and all the voices...
Your love entered me...my lady
into the cities of sadness
and I before you, never entered
the cities of sadness
I did not know...
that tears are the person
that a person without sadness
is only a shadow of a person...
Your love taught me
to behave like a boy
to draw your face with chalk
upon the wall
upon the sails of fishermen's boats
on the Church bells, on the crucifixes,
your love taught me, how love,
changes the map of time...
Your love taught me, that when I love
the earth stops revolving,
Your love taught me things
that were never accounted for
So I read children's fairytales
I entered the castles of Jennies
and I dreamt that she would marry me
the Sultan's daughter
those eyes..
clearer than the water of a lagoon
those lips...
more desirable than the flower of pomegranates
and I dreamt that I would kidnap her like a knight and I dreamt that I would give
her necklaces of pearl and coral
Your love taught me, my lady,
what is insanity
it taught me...how life may pass
without the Sultan's daughter arriving
Your love taught me
How to love you in all things
in a bare winter tree,
in dry yellow leaves
in the rain, in a tempest,
in the smallest cafe, we drank in,
in the evenings...our black coffee
Your love taught me...to seek refuge
to seek refuge in hotels without names
in churches without names...
in cafes without names...
Your love taught me...how the night
swells the sadness of strangers
It taught me...how to see Beirut
as a woman...a tyrant of temptation
as a woman, wearing every evening
the most beautiful clothing she possesses
and sprinkling upon her breasts perfume
for the fisherman, and the princes
Your love taught me how to cry without crying
It taught me how sadness sleeps
Like a boy with his feet cut off
in the streets of the Rouche and the Hamra
Your love taught me to grieve
and I have been needing, for centuries
a woman to make me grieve
for a woman, to cry upon her arms
like a sparrow
for a woman to gather my pieces
like shards of broken crystal
Nizar Qabbani,
I found this link for some of his poems in english
http://www.nizar.net/english.htm
Allow me to share my opinion,
Nizar Qabbani is considered by majority a "poet" for alot of reasons that has nothing to do with literature and poems but for other reasons that i dont want to discuss them now..
English literature differ from arabic literature, it depend more at the sound, it has it'sown identity every language has its own beauty and its shown in peoms, translating poems make it lose some (if not most) of its beauty, to enjoy a poem in my opinion it must be read in the original language only.
To understand my point try to translate one line from an old poem of Almotanabby, you wont be able, because the arabic poems have also their own identity, Sadr Agz, Qafyah that we cant find in other languages.
Nizar Qabbani is one of alot of people who pretend to be a poet but he couldnt fulfill the requests, he didnt have the toungue, he could be a writer but not a poet, so he and alot like him invented the New Poems (shi'r alhadatha) which intend to change the form of the arabic poems and to make it like the western poems (calling it الشعر النثري) and in order to make it public he mixed with porn, and most of the time he exagirated, he wrote porn poems in conservative (the positive meaning) sosciety, who supported him? ofcorse the poeple who want the conservative girl to spoil, and those who want athiesm to be diffused in these countries.
Look at his poems, where is his rich language, where is the true arabic poetry, the poems thbat could challenge Almotanabby and Thabit Ibn Hassan, Jamil Bothainah, Ibn tammam, Abo Ala'tahia, Mouhammad Iqbal (the bakistani), Ahmad Shaoqy.
This is my opinion in Nizar and Darwish and alot like them, men who couldnt be poets so they pretended to be.
interesting comment on Nizar,,,whom i still have to read!
I glanced at just one of his 'poem' but got bored after reading a few stanzas and had to turn the page,,,,,,,,,,,
as far as الشعر النثري) is concerned it is practised by poets in other languages also,,,and occasionally in English as well. It's versified prose and I don't think there is any thing bad about it. However, it is inferior to form poetry. I prefer form poetry. Poetry in all languages depends on phonetics,,,,,even in Arabic , Persian or Urdu. However, in contrast to these languages where every word has the same pronunciation and stressed syllables, English differs in that the stress is laid on how and where you want to lay it. One cannot write English poetry unless he can speak it fluently or understands
the technique of placing stress on words appropriately. As far as rhyme (Qafia) and rhythm(Auzaan) is concerned it is present in poetry of all languages,,,,,and is closely related to music!
Induction of porn or proselytising atheism or some peculiar type of dogma or philosophy in one's poetry could be said to be a way of 'forcing into the poetical regimen' for cheap and quick publicity!
ألشعر النثري doesnt exist in arabic, in arabic there is poet and nathr (i dont know the translation of it), for example Qis bn Sa'eda قس بن ساعدة wasnt a poet but a man who say nathr, and his works were even better than alot of old poems, he wasnt poet he couldnt say poem he didnt have the talent, but has the talent of nathr and he was excellent in it.
About the arabic poems' structure is alot different from the latin poems, the sound is not so imprtant in arabic poems, but the well structured, the strong words, the description, albohor (البحور) which rappresent a wall between poets and not.
this is the arabic poems, even persian poems are in arabic language, they copied all laws. Its the identity.
Nizar didnt have any thing to do with poets and poems,
Try to read about Alhadatha in this site> http://www.saaid.net/mktarat/almani/h.htm
its so informative.
sometimes I use the following 'baher' in my urdu poems
LA HOLA WALA QOO-ATA ILLAH BILLAH
ARABIC bahoor are commonly used in Persian and Urdu
Arabic poetry is known for its 'fasahat and balaghat',,,so is all good poetry in any language.
I just read a poem by Nizar ,,,,didn't like it.
nathri poem is prose verse or blank or free verse,,,,it's quite popular nowadays in urdu if not Arabic
Al Quran is not poetry yet it is much above any poetry
So maybe you are right translating the poetry makes it lose some of its beauty but its the only way to spread it all over the world you cant force people to learn your language in order to make them read your literature and about anything else your wrote I still consider Nizar , Darwish and Badr shaker al seyyab as great poets yes of course they are not like Al muttanabi but at least you dont have to hold the dictionary in order to understand their poetry like all the other old poets who wrote in al qafeya but anyway I still respect your point of view and I hope you'll respect mine and I wish in the future I could write about Mahmoud Darwish because his words are so deep and simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shield&Sword
I'm not of Nizar's fans or readers. However, he is a poet and writes all types of poetry and prose (Nathr). No one can deny his marvellous ability and huge amount of expressions and images. Most people don't like him for his poems about women in such, for us as Arabs, obscene way. Arabic literature is full of such poetry but they are not famous. For example, Imro Al-Qais, Amro bin Abi Rabiah, Yazid bin Mouawih, Ibn Al-Roomi and Abu Nawas (who even described gay relationships) etc.
yes Samah suer i respect your opinion, its your way of thinking.
About holding dicctionary to understand the old poems, i think this is because of our poverty of language and terms, we left the formal arabic and we talk now the street language, its not becuase the old poems are difficult, try to increase your richness of terms and language, thats why nizar wasnt that big thing, because his poems are poor you cant find the beauty of describing, he use so poor words that we use in our day life nothing more. We must feel ashame because of our arabic, to be a writer and a poet we must know alot of the dictionary that we dont like to search in, to be a real arabic master.
Try to read poems of Ahmad Shaoqy, once people started to cry because one of his poems, try to read poems of Mouhammad Iqbal the one that the leaders of europe met himbecause of his ability. Dont understand me wrong but dont think that if the nowadays media honor a poet then he is good or so strong.
HerG.
About saying that he exagirated by using the women's body in hi poems, i said that this thing made him famous in media, not for his ability, thats why you hear them saying: he is good,he is powerfull, but they dont say what is so good and which line or poem is powerfull, they dont get into poems.
And the old poets you posted they didnt describe women as Nizar did, anf if they did then its wrong, but they didnt. Poems of Nizar cant be studied in school, imagine that someone read the poem infront of you, i think you will slap him immediately.
Thanx for your your post samah is was so respectfull, and forgiveme if you feel insultedby any word i post.
I hate to defend Nizar because of his religious problems. Nevetheless, I can't deny his ability, too. I don't think that to be a poet you have to go back to the old Arabic and use it in your poems. For example, no one can deny the greatness of Ibn Zaidoon, Al-Mutanabi and many others. Their language and terms is far more different than that of old Arabic. Language is like a human being that evolves with time and changes. You can't teach standard Arabic at schools and think people will use it in their life (it's a shame that we are far away from standard Arabic). For example, we daily read the Holy Qur'an and if you stop someone and ask him about a word that he daily says (الصمد), I think you will be surprised at how people don't know.How come you pray to Allah with things you don't know, just repeating them over and over without the curiosity to know what it is.
Considering those poets I mentioned, you can take Abu Nawas's poem (وناهدة الثديين من خدم القصر) as an example of how poets go beyond the normal. Therefore, we can't just throw away a person's ability just because he dealt with such matters. Nizar talked about policy,too, in his poems.
P.S. Abw Nawas repented before his death and said such religious and abstemious verses like no other could do.
the topic is leading from poetry to religion....well, HG, in my opinion , when you pray in a language you don't understand God very well k nows what's in your heart, what you are praying for? One can pray to God any way anytime he likes. I think you havn't read the case of Moses when he rebuked a shepherd boy for praying to God in a most uncivilized language (and manner)Quote:
.How come you pray to Allah with things you don't know, just repeating them over and over without the curiosity to know what it is. HG
Traditions tell us that Moses action against the ignorant boy incited God's anger and he was stripped off of this prophethood!
It's the intention that matters. hindu's and all so called idol worshipers know that a carved piece of stone cant help them yet they rever it just seeming to see God in there! Don't some of the Muslims say 'they see God in every thing''?
What about Mansoor Hallaj's big shout , AN-AL-HAQ ( "I am God!'')
So, dear, it's the real intention in the heart which matters....people cant figure out but the Almighty can.
Muslims don't recite the entire prayer in a congregation at the mosque ,,,only the 'leader' the Imam does. Doesn't it prove that personally knowing the meaning of a certain recitations in prayers to God is not essential,,,,
Just pray for good things with a good open heart and your prayers would certainly be answered,,,mine have been!
let's not be very curious in matters of faith which in itself is unquestionable perhaps like love!:)
best wishes
here again.....
for your information, Sir Muhammad Iqbal was a Kashmiri, Urdu, Persian and Arabic not being his mother tongues yet he mastered them all, including German, and wrote such a poetry that none has been able to surpass his till this day. He's thus rightly called the Poet of the East!
Sorry that I digressed from the topic a little bit but it was about language, too.
For MazHur,
I didn't say that people must pray to Allah in a certain way but I said we must pray to him with things we understand and know. You just throw some words and think that you prayed to Allah. The boy you mentioned used his way-that he was used to use- to pray to Allah like many instances with Prphet Muhammas peace be upon him.
So let's just go back to that topic.
Nizar is a poet but hated or disliked by many people for different reasons.
HG
it's a good thing if you know a language you are praying in,,,but one can pray even by knowing the 'established meaning of the words recited,',,However, on the whole prayer depends on the strength of your conviction and faith.
Just for your information, and my surprise too, the word NAMAZ is interpreted by one of the Muslim sects to mean ' Dua' as opposed to conventional method of 'prayer or God-worship'',,,,they just raise their hands up and ''wish'' and don't follow the traditional method or system of praying!
So, lets get back to Nazari,,,,
as i admitted before I havnt read him any more than a few of his poems,,,wasn't much impressed but he does seem to have many fans whose choice also has to be respected.
What is poetry if Nazari is not doing it? Unlike the masters of Arabic poetry he may not be that good but afterall we cannot deny that he's a poet....how good or bad his message may seem to us. Muhammad Iqbal had a message in his poetry,,,and a philosophy of his own viz SELF or Khudi which he called. If Nazari inducts porn in his poetry he's not being fair to his art! We can find crap everywhere,,,,it's easy but worthless!
As to Nazari's composition, I personally like form poetry but don't mind if some good thing could be said conveniently in prose-verse or free verse, with no metre, no rhythm no rhyme,,,(no Qafia, no radeef, no bahoor, no auzaan, no zameen, no fasahat no balaghat etc!)) After reading a bit more of him I would be able to comment more on his diction and style,,,meantime you can continue with Samah,,I think she's an Arab and competent enough to understand the lingo??
What kind of love Nizar is referring to??
why trees come to him and not mountains?
http://www.nizar.net/english/whenilove.htm
I understand your point HerG. i am not saying that we must go back to the old arabic language, even in past people preferd the easy poems, for example Ibn Jareer poems were accepted by normal people more than Alfarazdaq poems due to their easy language and sweat sound but language scientists and poets almost all agree that poems of alfarazdaq are better and stronger than Ibn Jareer poems.
In same time i cant accept one poem because it agrees with the street language, even persons who dont know any thing about language and mistake in grammer so badly and cant say one sentence without mistakes try to say poems and take Nizar and Darwish like someone to follow. Now there are Nabati poems, try to hear them, any one who respect his language cant accept this "crap", no grammer no arabic even non arabic letters are used, but this type of poems are increasing, even theyb make tv shows for them, can i say that such poems can exist because poeple do not talk standard arabic, or because its the street language?
I am not a poet and cant pretend to be one, even big language scientists in the pats alot of them understand poems and can analise them so perfect but they cant say poems. In same time i can write alot of "poems" on Darwish and Nizar way and they can be so good, but i know i am not a poet, alot of poeple write poems on Nizar way, every one became poet, because its so easy, no language needed and any thing you say even if its stupid you can say its a symbol and only clever poeple can understand it.
I like Ahmad Shaoqi, Iqbal read their poems you wont find difficult arabic but you will find real poems, real description,clear terms beautiful structure strong lines.
If we consider Nizar's way a maximom, and Darwish as the best poet (as alot say) then we are really bad in language and at least must try to read more to increase our grammer and to go back to the standard arabic, perhaps not in street but at least in our books and studyings. I consider "Alhadatha Poems" as a scale, if alot like them then standard language is vanishing and we are in critical postion. We all know we are so bad in language, try not to bring poems to our bad language but to go back to the eight language and poems
Ok Shield and Sword, our arabic language is not very good these days but thats the way it is now, you cant go back and speak the old language and about ahmad shawqi of course he was a great poet but he was not as good as alfarazduq or abu nawas and I dont think they were as good as the old poets in souq okath ,and also you dont have to use the old language in order to be a good poet sometimes the most simple words can give the deepest meanings and thats the beauty of the language and thats what Nizar and Darwish were able to do and thats the real talent .
I guess he was talking about being deeply in love with a woman mostly, and he used trees and not mountains because trees are alive if you notice in the prevoius sentenceQuote:
Originally Posted by mazHur
"When I love
the water gushes from my fingers
grass grows on my tongue
when I love
I become time outside all time''
you'll see that he used water and grass to refer to life .
Quote:
Originally Posted by samah
That's right Samah, but unfortunately I don't think that Nizar is able to use any powerful words that can give the deepest meanings. I've read a poem about Qana, and it wasn't good at all. I felt that I'm reading the news, no powerful meanings, no images, nothing .
but you might see something i'm not able to see in his poems.
Thanks:)
Actually mercy_mankind I never read Qana so maybe you are right about it but i was talking about his love poems like your eyes "aynaki" I found it very touching and I find Darwishes political poems are powerful just like the ones Marcelle khalifeh used to sing.