If you don't want to believe your own Bible, that is fine and dandy with me.
But it's a good bet you will NEVER come up with a logical answer to my question about how pre-Adamite peoples have suffered from evil even though it was created only after Adam's ''fall''.
Good luck, pal, cause it's a question no one has ever answered in all of Christian history.
:)
Nobel didn't have a claim in perfection and omnipotence.Quote:
Originally Posted by mazHur
I read my Bible very carefully, and think carefully quoting it would be handy at times. Your scripture, my friend, from the KJV:Genesis: 2:[4] These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,Quote:
Originally Posted by hellsapoppin
[5] And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
I include the fifth verse, because it continues the fourth. Notice the line I have highlighted. These generations, were they aliens? It in fact says nothing of them walking the earth, and that there was no man to take care of it.
I never quarrel with science on any subject as much as them trying to build a race of people from one badly fragmented skull. That the individual existed is beyond question. But that that one individual could have been diseased, mutated in some way, or genetically a freak is more logical than an entire different race from one skull.Quote:
Originally Posted by hellsapoppin
And example here: Let us propose that John Merrick was not born when he was, but a million years before. One finding his misshapen skeleton or skull could easily be mislead into thinking it perhaps the missing link. Andre the Giant is another case in point. Humans have 32 teeth. Andre had 48. He was essentially, a giant-dwarf, and never ceased to grow as long as he lived. What would his skull have set off as a million-year-old artifact?
I added in the verse to your reference. The Tree in the Garden was Knowledge of Good and Evil. This man was told to leave alone, that it would bring death. He wouldn't listen. Man chose Knowledge, whether that Knowledge would be used for good or for evil. People say "money is the root of all evil." That's a misquote:Quote:
Originally Posted by hellsapoppin
1Tim.6
1. [10] For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
It is no sin to be rich. It is not wrong to be intelligent. But when your money means more to you than God and you have became so wise in your own eyes that you don't need God, there comes forth evil.
God Bless.
Pen
Now go back and read Genesis 1:26, 27 and you see that man had already been created and had dominion over ''all the earth'' {verses 28,29}.
``when your money means more to you than God and you have became so wise in your own eyes that you don't need God, there comes forth evil.``
You needn't worry about me along that score as I am not a Republican.;)
Yes I know Popeye. It is a common error. Man was created in the image of God in the day of his creation. God is a spirit. God then housed the spirit in flesh, split the masculine and feminine into two bodies. (Wait I have reference: Gen.5Quote:
Originally Posted by hellsapoppin
[1] This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
[2] Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.) You see, spirit. Had to divide the two latter, and took from Adam to make Eve. Yet believe what you will.
Rom.14
1. [5] One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
You have to see it for you, not because I say that's the way it is. If people could only get that part down, we'd have less arguing. A Man or woman must be persuaded in their own mind and not do things because someone else thinks or preaches it a different way. What if the person is wrong? You have followed a delusion to be damned in the end.
God Bless
Pen
Pen is so right it makes me feel like a christian !:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendragon
``Pen is so right it makes me feel like a christian !``
I'll gladly go to any church that practices the miracles shown in the New Testament. Jesus said that any true minister could duplicate and surpass his miracles and that's what I definitely want.;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellsapoppin
St . Matthew 7:
[15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
I'm sorry. I just feel it my duty to point this out. There is a song by the Gather Vocal Band where Mark Lowery as lead singer tells it like I had to live it gowning up in the old Pentecostal/Mon-Denominational tent revivals:
I've seen a lot of crazy things done in your name,
I know the tricks behind the magic show.
I've almost thrown the towel in a time or two
Just walked away from everything I know.
But that won't fill the emptiness inside of me--
Or calm the raging waters of my mind...
So if You are really out there and You're listening.
Then prove to me that those who seek shall find.
If You could just see fit to show me some of who You are.
If You could shine Your Light upon a broken sinners heart.
I need to know the truth, but I need something I can feel
I need You to make it real
There must be some good reason why You brought me here
Through valleys where The Shadow lingers close.
Down here there's a mask to cover every face,
But it's Your Sweet Face I long to see the most
So if You think that there's the slightest hope for me
In spite of all my questions and my doubt;
Then let me here Your Still Small Voice call out my name--
And let me know what others just talk about.
Song says it all. You want God, He has to make it real, not anyone else.
God Bless
Pen
I'm not sure why you are quoting the Bible since it is a book that I know better than most preachers do.
But yes, I'll go for a few miracles, esp on this Holiday season. :)
Jesus was bestowed with various greatest miracles any prophet ever had.
Jesus is alive and he will return to earth as Imam Mehdi or Saviour of human kinds. It is impossible for any human to show any miracle, whatsoever, at this time or in the future,,,,and if he tries to imitate Jesus he would only be faking and getting himself into trouble like Houdi did.
That's not what it says in the Bible's New Testament as it is the power of the holy spirit that supposedly makes miracles.
Okay, if the holy spirit makes miracles happen, then it is only Him that can do it now or in future by virtue of his position and leave of god .
Actually I dont think the Imam Mehdi is Jesus, I was pretty sure that he is supposed to be the Uniter who is a sign of the Return of Christ , ( and I delibritly use Christ as in the Messiah. As for the mircals I belive that the coorect format for reffering to them is By the will of God, which is important because it reffers too the prophets being, not only part of the mircale but as a tool of Gods Mircale.Quote:
Originally Posted by mazHur
*** Actually question what does Christ mean, anyone, I was opperating under the aassumption that it was equivellent to Messiah but it occured to me I might be wrong in which case please excuse.
English term from the greek word christos meaning the anointed one. (chosen one type of thing)
The bible says that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. Only Satan is pure evil and he became that way because he chose to rebel against God.
So I was right Messiah means that too :nod:Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh
Edit: Ok my sister just gave me the etamological breakdown Im wrong Mesiah ( the arbic one) comes from some arabic root word or other and means the sent one...
How beautifully Beverly has stated the gist of the matter! I have but to agree with her completely.Quote:
Beverly S
The bible says that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. Only Satan is pure evil and he became that way because he chose to rebel against God.
All the world is a miracle. If we take exercising of divine power to be a miracle, then the very fact that the world exists is a miracle.Quote:
Originally Posted by mazHur
Why did the other passengers die? Probably because they took impact in a different way than the survivor. Sometimes there is no greater "why," just that God made matter in a certain way, and did not intervene to save someone in this case.
there could atleast be two reasons for the the survivor single after the plane crash:
1. related to matter
2. related to soul or spirit
Ordinarily, only the first comes to the 'science-ridden' mind and that sounds fair enough though arguable.
The second aspect or cause of tragedy or miracle is only believed by those who believe in miracles or the world of the soul or spirit.
It is commonly observed that people (and even animals) don't feel the same way under all circumstances. For example, some people can endure hardships and pain comparatively more than others. Some experience 'fear' more than others; some startle even at the strong beat of their heart or at the gust of wind whereas others don't. What I mean to stress is that more often people die of how poorly they respond or react to matters related to their spirituals or soul and thus suffer accordingly. There have been reports of people dying of hear failure at the news of a loss, (such as the stock market crash,) which fate so many others didn't suffer. Some faint at the sight of a gheko or a rat, others don't bother. All the abstract feelings as they are called are infact unseen and yet un-exploited mysteries of nature that play their vital role in determining the destinies of people, including those who died and the one who came out alive. Matter alone is mere dust.
A miracle is a sudden change for which there is no reasonable explanation. For example, I had ulcers very badly, which showed clearly on x-rays with that nasty chalk stuff. I was prayed for and healed. The next x-rays were clean. The Doctor was shocked and said he didn't know what happened, but it must have be a miracle. The evidence was there.
God Bless
Pen
Maybe he is Jesus christ the Messiah because he was the anointed one sent by god!Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightshade
Messeeh in Arabic means Christian, so Messiah is Saviour of Mankind who is none other than Jesus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh
Actually Messeh is the word used to indicate christians it means followers of the Messiah or if you were to directly transalte it it means Messiah-ians.
thanks, that's right
I have to disagree with you that matter is "mere dust." Did not God create it?Quote:
Originally Posted by mazHur
And, of course, we Christians believe that God became matter. Please don't disparage it.
However, I am well aware that people react in different ways to the same stimulus- but that is not grounds for a miracle. The reactions of men are governed to a certain extent by naturally occuring chemicals in the brain, and also by the exercise of will. Miracle means something which is beyond nature, which accelerates, slows, or changes the normal workings of matter- water to wine is a process that occurs in nature at a much slower pace, God caused the sun to hang in the sky (stopped the rotation of the earth) for the Israelites, and He raised Christ from the dead, changing the normal processes of nature.
god kills:
http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot....od-killed.html
a great biblical re-cap of all of his killings
Old Testament: the lord kills whomever he pleaseth - I Samuel 2:6
God is a Giver as well as Taker. It does not mean He kills. It's just like saying that because the government takes taxes from us therefore the govt is evil. No.
Similarly, if a convict is hanged you cant say that the executioner acted evilly.
By your quote it is simple to understand that the one who can give life can also take it away !
there seems to be toooo much dwindling unbelief ,,,,,,,,,!
A common sense look at things, Popeye. from fellow cartoon character Pogp Possum: "Don't take life seriously son, it ain't nohow permanent" In other words life is always fatal. In this world!Quote:
Originally Posted by hellsapoppin
God Bless
Pen
``it is simple to understand that the one who can give life can also take it away ! ``
I suppose that means that parents can commit infanticide without facing consequences.
Wrong example! Parents dont give life --they just 'bear' children. It's only God who gives life and we hold it in 'trust' until He takes it back........Quote:
Originally Posted by hellsapoppin
Take the example of a moneylender,an employer, tax department, the government,,,,,all of these 'give' you but also 'take ' in return. Give and Take always go together,,,,,:D
Satan cannot be pure evil, for if he were pure evil he would cease to exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by mazHur
1) All of God's creations were good at the time of their creation.
2) Therefore everything that exists has some goodness.
2b) To have existence is therefore to partake of some good.
3) Evil is the corruption of goodness, and has no independent existence.
4) Anything that has been completely corrupted would cease to exist.
5) Satan exists.
6) Satan can not be purely evil.
QED.
The essence of this argument is based on de libero arbitrio by Augustine.
Maybe
It is an absurd premise because there is no god, no "invicible man" as George Carlin so aptly put it.
but it's also saidQuote:
Originally Posted by liberal viewer
THERE IS NO GOD BUT GOD !
The non-existence of God would not make the premise "absurd" since the underlying question of the origin and nature of evil would still remain. This question explores the internal coherence of one possible approach to these questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by liberal viewer
With all due respect to Nietzsche, there is no ultimately convincing argument about the existence of God in either direction.
I would argue (in a different thread, of course) that given the undecidability of the proposition the reasonable thing to do is to acknowledge in one's ontology whether or not God is a part of your set of axioms. Geometers seem to have no problem working with Euclidean and non-Euclidean spaces without having crises of mathematical faith.
``It's only God who gives life and we hold it in 'trust' until He takes it back``
He also created Satan - if the latter is evil it is because he was made that way by you know who ... ;)
That does not follow. Given that angels have free will, an angel can choose to sin. The evil would be the result of Satan's choice, not God's creation.Quote:
Originally Posted by hellsapoppin
This is not to suggest that Satan chose to be evil. He chose to make himself the equal of God, which was contrary to his true happiness. Choosing that which can not make you happy eternally as though it could make you eternally happy is the basis of evil.
... and who creates that evil ?
Evil is created by the action of free will.Quote:
Originally Posted by hellsapoppin
Also note that evil does not have substantial existence, so it does not involve a positive act of creation, such as the creation of a penguin or chihuahua.
``Evil is created by the action of free will.``
By god's free will ;) as per Isaiah 45:7.