And what if you happened to pick a wrong one?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rozzy
I am quoting atheist and adding the fact that you have to pick just the correct god. How many are there? Pretty much I would say ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by The Atheist
0.001 divided by the total number of gods, would make the chance of your god existing pretty minimal. Yet I am not too much for a science for the absolute meter for life, so if your faith brings you happiness, cherish it.
That's one of the problems I have with a creator God. Why has an Atheist lost everything? The earthly conditions were created by God, and so the conditions for Atheism were too. Shouldn't the measure of a person be how much good they have done, how positive to others they are and how beneficial they have been whatever they believe? Paradise Lost talks of Lucifer's monstrous and self destructive pride, but if not being recognised and praised and worshipped to the exclusion of other Gods isn't pride, then I don't know what is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rozzy
Buddhism, for example, talks of unseen compassion - a compassion for others without recognition or credit, but just for its own sake. Surely that's a more Godly stance?
Alas, that is just a human approach to a divine question - gods don't use sloppy mortal morality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulclem
You'll be ok, though - most christians believe your lot are just misguided, but goodly enough to let into the harpy place. :D
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by The Atheist
I'm not convinced by ineffable nature. Anyway "I" won't be around. :smilielol5:
So, from what I can gather, Atheist, by your definition of what an atheist is, I'm an atheist and not an agnostic, which is what I've been labeling myself as.
As far as I can tell, you don't believe in God, but you don't seem to ever say he doesn't exist. Atheists, as I've always assumed, lived under the assumption that there was no God, no afterlife; that there's nothing more than what we can sense.
As an agnostic, I don't believe in God, but that doesn't make me consider that there may be a God, and I may be wrong. Every atheist I've ever met believes (yes, I use "believes" with intent) that there is no God, and is certain of this.
Add to this that the OED definition (which I know you discount, but I offer it up anyways) of "agnostic" is:
"a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God"
The bolded part seems to describe your belief to a tee, as shown by this statement:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Atheist
You're onto it, yes you're an atheist!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandi
If you look at the OED description of agnosticism, it is really quite senseless:
nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena
Making a statement that nothing can be known is about as unequivocal as possible and therefore more of a faith position than many theists. I'm not sure why dictionaries have such trouble defining atheism & agnosticism. Dawkins manages it easily and he's nobody's lexicographer. Agnosticism should be the simple "don't know" second meaning given that most people use it as.
I'm surprised you say that every atheist you've met is a definite believer in the non-existence of god, because I converse with hundreds of atheists and only a very small percentage make that statement. The hardest of hardline atheists usually uses Dawkins' 6.9 on the 7-point scale to signify their level of disbelief.
Well, it doesn't just say nothing can be known, it says, "nothing can be known ... beyond material phenomena."
And, every atheist I've ever talked to amounts to about three, and we really didn't get into a deep philosophical discussion, so your numerous discussions definitely amount to more than mine.
So, what are the differences between agnosticism and atheism, then?
Not much. Mostly in the minds of agnostics who [very briefly]:Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandi
A Don't like being called atheists (which unless they believe in a god, they are)
B Tend to be religious apologists, because "we don't know" means we should be more tolerant of religion.
Atheists tend not to stand for that kind of nonsense. (and there are a couple of threads which expand on the above if you're that way inclined)
:D
There might be a complicating factor in that many liberal theists actively support and claim agnosticism. I just don't like fence-sitting myself.
A friend of mine, an atheist, explained it to me that there are different degrees of atheism. He says the majority are Agnostic Atheists, which is what you've described: Those who don't believe in a god, but don't claim to know that a god doesn't exist. The other end of the spectrum has the Strong Atheist, the one that is 99% certain that there is no God (my friend also says he has not met any atheist who is willing to say there is 100% chance that there is no God).
That would include me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandi
There you go. They're rarer than you think - especially outside of high school.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandi
:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by The Atheist
I must say, this has all been very enlightening.