Is Celebrating Death Justifiable?

Against all my expectations (or call them prejudices if you will) I found the film very moving. I never expected to find myself feeling sorry for her but I thought the film tried to show her as a fallible human with a family who loved her in spite of her failings, as well as a political figure who left such a mark for good or ill on the country. Meryl Streep's performance was outstanding - for once I forgot I was watching Meryl Streep and found her portrayal realistic and sympathetic. The political issues were dealt with a light touch, it was a portrait of a woman in decline rather than an analysis of her success or failure in a position of power. Her tragedy was shown less as a fall from might than as a sad all too human decline which could afflict any one of us. I've watched a beloved family member fade in just such a way and I felt the film dealt tenderly not just with the suffering of the woman herself but with the grief it brought her family and true friends.

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Originally Posted by kasie

Against all my expectations (or call them prejudices if you will) I found the film very moving. I never expected to find myself feeling sorry for her but I thought the film tried to show her as a fallible human with a family who loved her in spite of her failings, as well as a political figure who left such a mark for good or ill on the country. Meryl Streep's performance was outstanding - for once I forgot I was watching Meryl Streep and found her portrayal realistic and sympathetic. The political issues were dealt with a light touch, it was a portrait of a woman in decline rather than an analysis of her success or failure in a position of power. Her tragedy was shown less as a fall from might than as a sad all too human decline which could afflict any one of us. I've watched a beloved family member fade in just such a way and I felt the film dealt tenderly not just with the suffering of the woman herself but with the grief it brought her family and true friends.

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And a Carol.

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Originally Posted by Neely

Some funny things I've read or seen this week about her that I didn't know:

• She supported white rule and the apartheid in South Africa and called Nelson Mandela a ‘terrorist’
• Believed in the Berlin wall and did not want Germany re-united
• Believed that writers should get a proper job
• Commented that if a man over 25 is still using public transport then he is a failure!

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She probably ate babies for breakfast as well but, as far as the last comment, I personally have seen Jo Grimond (former Liberal Party leader) and Dennis Skinner (the Beast of Bolsover) on the London underground. David Milliband was also recently photographed asleep in an underground train carriage as well. So perhaps there's something to be said in favour of Mrs Thatcher's assertion.

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Originally Posted by Neely

It all just makes me want to leave the country and live in a hole somewhere.

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But you already do dear boy, it's called the UK.

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Originally Posted by Paulclem

My thoughts exactly. They Tories are being paticularly hypocritical seeing as they had nothing to do with her after she was deposed, and left it to Gordon Brown to welcome her back.

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Considering how far North of Watford Gordon Brown's constituency is, his welcoming Mrs Thatcher to Downing Street does seem a bit odd.

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Originally Posted by cacian

The Tories are putting their foot in it and so is Labour. Their speeches and adoration of and about Maggie is not looking good. Both have forgotten they have elections to run. The population is listening and is not thinking great things of both of them. Their views an opinions on Maggie is going to backlash against them and it would both the tories and labour if neither get elected UKIP's prospect is looking good. Not very clever if you ask me.

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This is the second coherent post you have made in this thread, could the troll's mask be slipping?

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But you already do dear boy, it's called the UK.

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Ha, ha, yes. I was thinking about buying a caravan and living in the woods. I'm only partially joking as well!

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This is the second coherent post you have made in this thread, could the troll's mask be slipping?

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Either her account has been hacked or she's just come off a 10 year bender.:cheers2:

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Ideally it would be a quiet and dignified service, as you pointed out.

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This would be the most tasteful thing to do, but it seems we don't live in tasteful times.

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Originally Posted by kasie

There will be a time and a place for assessments of the work of Margaret Thatcher - this isn't it. She isn't even in her grave yet - whatever happened to De mortuis nil nisi bonum? It went out of the window with other expressions of good manners, I think. In the past few years she has been far from the Saviour of the Country/Monstrous Tyrant (depending on from which end of the political spectrum she is viewed): she has been a sad, demented old woman for whom death may well have been a merciful release. I'd like to see her laid to rest in dignity and peace, much as I hope to be treated myself. I've asked for no eulogies at my funeral (I've sat in too many churches and chapels wondering if I'm at the right funeral ) - though I won't be around to find out if my wishes are respected. I don't expect the fulsome gushings of the past few days nor, I hope, will there be too much dancing on my grave: I don't think I've earned either, but I'm not a public figure who inspired widely differing opinions. Difficult though it may be, I feel at this time she should be treated as an ordinary mortal and accorded some basic human dignity.

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I agree too, but the eulogists have the news and the stand, and, while I personally would want someone to be treated with dignity, and find it unfortunate mainly for the rest of her family, I felt I had to state just what motivates communities to celebrate her death. They were very difficult times for certain sections of the country as you know, and i felt the balance needed to be made a bit.

Ideally it would be a quiet and dignified service, as you pointed out.

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Originally Posted by Neely

Ha, ha, yes. I was thinking about buying a caravan and living in the woods. I'm only partially joking as well!

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One by the sea surely. They have static ones down at Skeggie.

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Originally Posted by Paulclem

One by the sea surely. They have static ones down at Skeggie.

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I'm not going anywhere near that hell hole. I want to live in Goathland and ride around on my bike.

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Originally Posted by Neely

I'm not going anywhere near that hell hole. I want to live in Goathland and ride around on my bike.

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:lol:

I understand.

Whether members agree with the proposition or not, it's likely that Mrs Thatcher will be remembered as a patriot. So perhaps a patriotic ditty would be appropriate. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3dD0...91CE73EB5E9770

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Originally Posted by kasie

Against all my expectations (or call them prejudices if you will) I found the film very moving. I never expected to find myself feeling sorry for her but I thought the film tried to show her as a fallible human with a family who loved her in spite of her failings, as well as a political figure who left such a mark for good or ill on the country. Meryl Streep's performance was outstanding - for once I forgot I was watching Meryl Streep and found her portrayal realistic and sympathetic. The political issues were dealt with a light touch, it was a portrait of a woman in decline rather than an analysis of her success or failure in a position of power. Her tragedy was shown less as a fall from might than as a sad all too human decline which could afflict any one of us. I've watched a beloved family member fade in just such a way and I felt the film dealt tenderly not just with the suffering of the woman herself but with the grief it brought her family and true friends.

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This is pure propaganda. Margareth Thatcher did not fail but on the contrary. And Streep did not portray such tragedy. Margaret's family did not suffer a bit out of it. The only thing you are lacking here is to join Emil Miller with the Nazi bologni he posted below. What an assigment he got, the poor man. ROFLMAO!!!!

Both Kasie and Juniper Woolf. The thing is that she was out of the public eye and her death brings her back into it. It's not helpful to be jubilant about her death. It doesn't help change policies. I dislike politicians, but changing public policy is hard work, so merely hating what they do is not enough. WE have to work for change. Also, changing her particular policies turned out to be more difficult than they thought:



The second miscalculation was the assumption, made until quite late in the day, that what she was doing to the country could, and would, eventually be undone. This had always more or less happened in postwar politics: little pendulum swings to the left and then to the right along the years. Now, post-Thatcher, the pendulum continues to swing, but inside a clock that has been rehung on the wall at a completely different angle.

Which I found in this longer article "The Woman Who Wrecked Great Britian":

http://www.salon.com/2013/04/09/the_...great_britain/

I understand that 2000 guests have been invited to attend the funeral, and I'm wondering whether Arthur Scargill and Denis Skinner are among them. Or will their invitations conveniently be lost in the post?

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Originally Posted by Emil Miller

I understand that 2000 guests have been invited to attend the funeral, and I'm wondering whether Arthur Scargill and Denis Skinner are among them. Or will their invitations conveniently be lost in the post?

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Well if it's owt like our post it'll probably turn up after the funeral anyway.

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Originally Posted by Neely

This would be the most tasteful thing to do, but it seems we don't live in tasteful times.

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And that, I think, is partly her legacy. Good manners, compassion , a conscious, had no role in her society. Perhaps she was right, but Britain is now a nastier place.

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Originally Posted by prendrelemick

And that, I think, is partly her legacy. Good manners, compassion , a conscious, had no role in her society. Perhaps she was right, but Britain is now a nastier place.

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Britain started becoming a nastier place long before Mrs Thatcher, partly as a result of living in the cloud cuckoo land of non-punitive sentencing, ushered in and fostered by her opponents and beloved of lawyers and criminals

'The deterioration in public behaviour had been caused by a naïve belief in the post-war political consensus that, because what had happened in Germany was wrong, the right way to govern a country was to renounce punitive sentencing and rely on the theory of rehabilitation to uphold the rule of law. The significance of this miscalculation was not lost on either the criminal fraternity or the legal profession, for the obvious consequence of such a policy was that criminality would flourish to the benefit of both.'

Pro Bono Publico