ok i know that they probably arent that similar but the do have governments that they are trying to overthrow and then ealize that the original one was porbably better so please comment
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ok i know that they probably arent that similar but the do have governments that they are trying to overthrow and then ealize that the original one was porbably better so please comment
Hey everybody! I hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas/ Holidays!!
As for Animal Farm--I didn't particularly like this novel mostly because I'm not into politics so I wasn't able to connect it as easily as most of you. However, I do agree with most of your comments. Davidson-I have to disagree with you on your latest comment, however. I think that is why we have such a problem in our government, because why aren't the people who like to work not fit for ruling? Just because they aren't as smart?.....it doesn't make sense to me. As long as they have good plans and good leadership skills--thats what I think qualifies an animal/ person to be a great leader. Then again, I do agree entirely with the foreshadowing. I agree that from the very start the pigs assumed leadership and the animals accepted it without question. I was very angry with this.
It was kind-of funny....from the very beginning I knew that the animals would never be equal...especially with the pigs in control...
If you think about it...can any government ever be perfect? Or even equal? Or fair? I know there will be disagreement on what is a "perfect" government, but lets just say a "fair" government. I don't think there can be a "perfect" or even a "fair" government. There will always be someone who assumes leadership, or there will always be some glitch or problem to the system of a government. Please comment if you disagree with me.
p.s. Sorry if my latest comment has already been brought up. ("perfect" government)
Another thing--It made me so mad that the pigs could influence and change anything they wanted over the animals. For example, towards the end of the book we read that the pig (forgot his name) took the sheep aside each day to teach them a new motto, "Four legs good, two legs better!", and they didn't know really what was going on. They didn't realize that the pigs were taking complete control, siding with the humans, and furthermore didn't do anything about it. We also read throughout the book that the commandments would change each time a PIG would disobey them (not any other animal I might add, for if any other animal disobeyed them they would be slaughtered!!)
I have a question....it may be kind-of stupid...but since when could the humans understand what the animals (pigs) were saying? If I remember correctly, at the beginning the humans could not understand the animals, and by the end the pigs were having conversations in meetings with the humans....?
I think that the pigs taught themselves to talk from the books they found in the house
As far as when the pigs disobeyed the commandments were changed and when other animals did they were slaughtered. That is how the world is run today, but maybe not to the same degree. Today famous people are treated so much differently than the rest of the population and I beleive that this is one reason why our world is not equal. Famous people are let off with a simple warning when they may speed on the highway, while the general public is forced to pay a wopping 50$ at the least. Movie stars and athletes beleive that they can do what ever they want because we let them do what they want, for example Coby Bryant. They are never called on when they are being selfish or stingy, wich they always are. They and we act like they are the best thing that ever hit the earth, just as the pigs were treated, they thought that they should be treated on a higher level than the rest of the farm so the rest of the farm did treat them as if they were better. Even Benjamin, he new what was going to happen all along, I understand why he never said anything out of the fear of being slaughtered, but the stupidity of the rest of the farm was intolerable.
Lexey--I agree entirely....at first I thought to myself "How can the other animals not realize that the pigs have complete control over them?" but I guess they just don't have the intelligence to figure it out. I was also really mad that the ones who did figure it out didn't do anything. But then again, I guess it is understandable after the series of slaughtering done to the animals who did something wrong.
I also agree with Lexey. Celebrities think they can do whatever they wany because they have the money to pay for it. The pigs think they can do whatever they want because there isn't anyone to stop then, because any animal that objects would be considered a traitor and slaugtered instantly
Also what Heidi said about the slaughtering, boxer was the only one strong enough to kill the dogs, but his motto was "Napolean is always right," so he would never rebel against the pigs
the animals thought that they couls trust what the pigs said, but didn't relize their mistake until it was too late
Exactly, and the reason any animal that objects would be considered a traitor is because the animals on the farm started out believing that overthrowing the farm was a good idea and they were being brain washed into the fact that it was still a good system they had going. The sheep and most of the farm would believe anything that Napoleon said and that is also what happens in our country today, there are tons of people who beleive everything they see on comercials and that is exactly what happens in Animal Farm.
Ya and that's just it that makes me so mad...and our government can never work with situations like this happening. I wish WE could run the government....;)
and yet this is happening in our government right now. so people believe whatever they are told, like the situation in Iraq. Some people strongly think that we are winning, and some think just the opposite
but thats just it no matter what there is always corruption in the government along with rumors and other stuff that our world and government would function a lot better without
and its impossible to completely get rid of corruption, there will always be some form of it, as shown in Animal Farm. They thought they had the "perfect" system of government, but its leeaders were corrupt
Ya I totally agree that there will always be corruption in a system of government. But I do think that it could definitely be better than how it is in the book or how our current govrenmnet is.
intro: ok so on a first note i didnt really connect with the book as heidi (i think) said; im not really into politics either. The whole part of how each animal represented someone in history kind-of confused me more because i dont know much about Russian History..
But anyways..
i dont understand why they animals could all of a sudden rule over the farm. if the pigs hated being cared for my the humans why didnt they take charge before? i know that they only thought about it after major had that dream but seriously that wouldnt really happen since humans were in charge before they could still over power the animals with weapons and machines so i just dont understand. i mean does the farm symbolize like a city or whatever in Russia???
i think every thing you guys just said is totally right
Its kind of like if someone is given alot of power they abuse it and make life hell for others.
see you all at school on tuesday
Ok this comment is similar to Keanna's.....but when the animals took over the farm, to me, it seemed awfully simple....they had a little battle and that was it! They overtook it with no problem! It seemed all-too-easy.....
keanna your totally right
ya i didnt get the book either it isnt my type of book
maybe the farm does symbolize as russia or something it would make sense i guess
would the animals have taken control if the humans had fought back with weapons or would they still have won?
yea exactly... are the humans to stupid to realize the ability they have to overcome the animals?
and as heidi said it all happened wat to easy.. u honestly think this would happen it could be won so quickly.?
on a side note: why did they want the humans out? they provided them with food. and when it was animal farm they were woking more and eating less.. was it really the best thing in the long run?
What was the purpose for George Orwell writing Animal farm??
Ok, one thing I did not get was if the pigs where trying to get away from humanizing Animal Farm, then why did the pigs learn how to write from a spelling book?!?
This is for Andrewhugs, I never thought of boxer in that sort of symbolism, it made me think does that mean in a communist country there are more "boxers" then "snowballs","napoleons" and "squealers", because the "boxers" think it's for the good of their government to do what their told. While their are few pigs, because there the eduacated ones in the comminity who know how to persuade others in " doing what is right for the country" ?!?!
yea exactly.. and why would the pigs start to become exactly wat they thought was bad? (the humans)
I think Old Majors intentions were good, he was sick of being opressed for his whole life, and wanted to do something about it. After he died everything went hay in hand basket, because the new breed of visionaries controled and manipulated the animals to beleive everyone did an equal shar on making Old Majors "dream" of having a better life a reality.
i agree with keanna i also found it ironic how the pigs turned into exactally what they rebelled against
Keanna the humans tried to overtake the farm twice and it did not work, but the humans also though that the farm would fail and all the animals would die so the humans did not feel the need to attack again.
well ya david i understand that. but did the humans try the same thing twice? because i know if i did something and it didnt work i would try again in a different way. but on the second note the pigs were becoming like humans ! right???
You will understand Keanna - I promise you will- Use this "chat" to understand the book fully - then we will go over Russian Revolution...Hang in there.
The rest of you ----Have I told you how brilliant and cool you are lately? Well after hours of watching you chat here - DAMN YOUR SMOOTH! Keep up the good work - only you guys could pull off such a wonderfully diverse seminar rich with EDUCATION!
happy new years!!!
when napoleon says "i will give you the same toast as before, but in a different form. Fill your glasses to the brim. Gentlemen, here is my toast: To the prosperity of The Manor Farm!" (pg. 138)
does anyone think as i do myself that when he says this its kinda like when people say dont look at the glass half full so its like hes saying take in all this information and all the information i have given you. does anyone else think that he might be saying that? and what is that called not symbolizing but what?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ben lurie
i greatly agree, but the process i think is in action. more social welfare programs are being put into place than ever before. it is a long and slow workers revolution, but its happening!!! it is not necessary to create anew... just reform what already is with the people you have.
but how can you first understand the book, then the politics, especially when the book is inherantly politicalQuote:
Originally Posted by paulteach
"the praxis of philosophical thought oft contradicts itself" truth in action my friend... that is what marx realized, extreemists go against their own moralsQuote:
Originally Posted by XXXsammyXXX
wow, tht was really deep. I think that the characters in animal farm can relate to society today even thought this book is over fifty years old. It teaches that we as a people cannot function without some kind of guidence, but when some of us become glutonous for power, the whole system set up that was perfectly balanced, is now crumbling apart right before our very eyes. there were only a few animals that realized what was happening but before they knew it, they were following the rest of the group and were sucked into the void by the other's stupity. that is why when in doubt, think of what you know to be right, and what you know to be easy, 'cause it will get you into more truoble than it's really worth.
xoxoEllaxoxo
oh, and here is a little someting to think about and i would love any comments anyone has. Why do people work so hard and fight for so long when in the end, it doesn't even matter?!
i mean, what did the animals gain by working so hard to overthrown the humans when the pigs could gain all control and screw up the system?THEY GAIN NOTHING!
so, jst like in AF, control was given to those that seemed most capable when really, the pigs were just puppets which eventually caused them to corrupt he whole system. Just something to think about.
xoxoEllaxoxo
ella is that a line from linkin park's "in the end"?Quote:
Originally Posted by xIAxEllax