who's your favorite poet? why?

Just so you know, Mortal, the mosaic you posted of the Roman women with a book is really depressing when seen up close. The size of it on your screen is pretty accurate, and it's also standing on a wall, rather high up, amongst other miniatures dug up from the area.

In truth, I think with these pictures, people get the wrong idea. There is an intense distortion, especially with the older sculptures and paintings, some perhaps improving, whereas others greatly losing something. The Colosseum for instance, when you actually see it, it seems like a waste of time - the stones are less sharp, the building looks worn out - in fact, surrounded with a billion tourists elbow to elbow, each with their audio tour guides in hand, or their tour guide led trips, one can't help but feel let down. Naples is perhaps better, given that the tourists, though there are some, are less rampant, and far fewer in number (at least, when I was there, perhaps because of the garbage crisis), though I wouldn't want to be in that city once the sun goes down. But beyond that, our distortion over time based on the form the image is coming to us (a 2d imprint of a 3d image, for instance) or a resized, refocused image, with perhaps heightened color or softened edges, really changes things.

Perhaps the same could be said of poetry - the Roman poetry, obviously, has not really come down as it originally was understood - much has been lost, to quote, "Stat Roma pristina nomine; nomina nuda tenemus." What is there really left of everything.

But on the subject of Roman verses Greek in sculpture - the Greek models tend to carry a rawer, more life like quality, whereas the Roman ones seem to be idealized forms of previous models. The Greek figures, even if the legs, head, and arms are missing, seem far more real, far more emotion, seem to convey so much more, than even the most well kept Roman statues.

That perhaps is closer to what classical Greek poetry tried to capture, I would take it. Catullus and Horace may have perfected forms, and what not, but I think there is something more real in Sophacles' verse, or in Aeschylus' (I use these guys, because of all the poets, they seem to me perhaps the best examples, and some of the most well preserved) - something more alive, and not strapped down to the confines of an image.

Lately Wordsworth and Coleridge

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Originally Posted by JBI

But on the subject of Roman verses Greek in sculpture - the Greek models tend to carry a rawer, more life like quality, whereas the Roman ones seem to be idealized forms of previous models. The Greek figures, even if the legs, head, and arms are missing, seem far more real, far more emotion, seem to convey so much more, than even the most well kept Roman statues.

That perhaps is closer to what classical Greek poetry tried to capture, I would take it. Catullus and Horace may have perfected forms, and what not, but I think there is something more real in Sophacles' verse, or in Aeschylus' (I use these guys, because of all the poets, they seem to me perhaps the best examples, and some of the most well preserved) - something more alive, and not strapped down to the confines of an image.

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Yes, but maybe you are comparing them to the wrong Greeks. The Byzantines had a thousand years of uninterrupted culture and where are their literary masterpieces? Name anything of theirs that stands with The Aeneid, The Metamorphoses, Satyricon, The Pot of Gold, Thyestes, The Dream of Scipio, Livy's History of Rome, De Rerum Natura, The Meditations of Marcus Aurelius, etc. Compare them to medieval Europe, or just about any other time period for that matter, and you are likely to take a much kindlier view of the Roman's achievements, than if you compare them to the golden age of Greek civilization. While you are at it, compare anybody else to those same Greeks and see where that gets you. If you play that game with music, who can beat the Germans? It's an unfair contest, a rigged game with loaded dice, weighted scales, and a card up the sleeve. Praxiteles, indeed! Stlukes, do you compare every one of your canvases to Michelangelo?

By the way JBI, I've heard people complain about how small and cramped the Sistine Chapel is. What can I tell ya? History isn't what it used to be.

Allen Ginsberg was my introduction to poetry, so he always holds a special place for me, while I consider Walt Whitman to be THE poet. But I'd say my general favorite is Arthur Rimbaud, he speaks to me in a way that no other poet has. 'A Season in Hell' is my go to piece whenever I'm down on life.

I'm liking Byron currently. 'And Thou Art Dead, As Young and Fair' has to be one of the best poems ever written.

william blake.... "the sick rose" is a beauty

I like The Cold and the Pebble :)

Favorite poet is Yeats, but I think everyone should check out canadian poet Don McKay--modern and fascinating

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Originally Posted by MissTwain

Favorite poet is Yeats, but I think everyone should check out canadian poet Don McKay--modern and fascinating

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I could never really get into him - I don't know; I've studied him formally, but he never seemed to appeal to me.

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Originally Posted by JBI

I could never really get into him - I don't know; I've studied him formally, but he never seemed to appeal to me.

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Yeats or McKAy?

Favorite contemporary poet? Philip Levine:

Excerpt from "Coming Home"

Take this quiet woman, she has been
standing before a polishing wheel
for over three hours, and she lacks
twenty minutes before she can take
a lunch break. Is she a woman?
Consider the arms as they press
the long brass tube against the buffer,
they are striated along the triceps,
the three heads of which clearly show.
Consider the fine dusting of dark down
above the upper lip, and the beads
of sweat that run from under the red
kerchief across the brow and are wiped
away with a blackening wrist band
in one odd motion a child might make
to say No! No! You must come closer
to find out, you must hang your tie
and jacket in one of the lockers
in favor of a black smock, you must
be prepared to spend shift after shift
hauling off the metal trays of stock,
bowing first, knees bent for a purchase,
then lifting with a gasp, the first word
of tenderness between the two of you,
then you must bring new trays of dull
unpolished tubes. You must feed her,
as they say in the language of the place.
Make no mistake, the place has a language...

Why?

Because he's blue collar, and he gets it right.

All time favorite? Gotta be Yeats:

WHEN you are old and gray and full of sleep
And nodding by the fire, take down this book,
And slowly read, and dream of the soft look
Your eyes had once, and of their shadows deep;

How many loved your moments of glad grace,
And loved your beauty with love false or true;
But one man loved the pilgrim soul in you,
And loved the sorrows of your changing face.

And bending down beside the glowing bars,
Murmur, a little sadly, how love fled
And paced upon the mountains overhead,
And hid his face amid a crowd of stars.

Why? Do I have to say?

i have some kind of twisted adoration for Dylan Thomas, though i do find some of his work a little pretentious

i think if you're looking for a witty poem, dripping with dark humour, Charles Bukowski is the one and only.

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Originally Posted by MissTwain

Yeats or McKAy?

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McKay

JBI, how much Ovid have you read? I'm assuming you've read The Metamorphoses, and The Amores, which are his primary texts like Eliot's Wasteland, or Prufrock. But the secondary works such as The Heroides and Cures for Love are almost as good and to continue the analogy are quite as charming as Eliot's The Hollow Men and his Four Quartets. I think it is a shame that these other works are so rarely read. How tragic it would be to know Eliot only by The Wasteland but so many only know Ovid as the author of The Metamorphoses.

I know you've read Catullus, but have you ever sampled Lucan, Statius, Propertius, Tibullus, or Persius? Drkshadow is currently making a drive-by of the Roman era in literature and I'm afraid he won't do it even the justice he did the Greeks: reading a survey of lyric fragments on his way to the playwrights. How short changed this era gets in modern appraisal. A little Cicero, a little Virgil, a little Horace and they think they know everything. I'm not saying you do this yourself, just that there is this tendency.

Was it on this thread that we discussed the Greeks in comparison to the Romans? Even then I felt constricted by the parameters of the debate. We limited our examples to the visual arts and I forgot to mention how the Roman's excelled the ancient world in engineering, law, politics, warfare, religious freedom. Such a fascinating time! Plautus is no Aristophanes, and Seneca is no Aeschylus, yet they are still Plautus and Seneca. But now I am ranging far afield and must reign my horses in.

What I meant to do, when I started out, was merely to ask how far your studies of Ovid had gone and to further inquire whether or not you have continued your perusal of Leopardi. Have you been reading his Zibaldone and Operette Morali or have you thrown the Italians over for some new Mandarin paramour? I must admit, I was looking forward to hearing your views of Alfieri, Ariosto, and Gozzi.

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Originally Posted by mortalterror

JBI, how much Ovid have you read? I'm assuming you've read The Metamorphoses, and The Amores, which are his primary texts like Eliot's Wasteland, or Prufrock. But the secondary works such as The Heroides and Cures for Love are almost as good and to continue the analogy are quite as charming as Eliot's The Hollow Men and his Four Quartets. I think it is a shame that these other works are so rarely read. How tragic it would be to know Eliot only by The Wasteland but so many only know Ovid as the author of The Metamorphoses.

I know you've read Catullus, but have you ever sampled Lucan, Statius, Propertius, Tibullus, or Persius? Drkshadow is currently making a drive-by of the Roman era in literature and I'm afraid he won't do it even the justice he did the Greeks: reading a survey of lyric fragments on his way to the playwrights. How short changed this era gets in modern appraisal. A little Cicero, a little Virgil, a little Horace and they think they know everything. I'm not saying you do this yourself, just that there is this tendency.

Was it on this thread that we discussed the Greeks in comparison to the Romans? Even then I felt constricted by the parameters of the debate. We limited our examples to the visual arts and I forgot to mention how the Roman's excelled the ancient world in engineering, law, politics, warfare, religious freedom. Such a fascinating time! Plautus is no Aristophanes, and Seneca is no Aeschylus, yet they are still Plautus and Seneca. But now I am ranging far afield and must reign my horses in.

What I meant to do, when I started out, was merely to ask how far your studies of Ovid had gone and to further inquire whether or not you have continued your perusal of Leopardi. Have you been reading his Zibaldone and Operette Morali or have you thrown the Italians over for some new Mandarin paramour? I must admit, I was looking forward to hearing your views of Alfieri, Ariosto, and Gozzi.

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I admit, I branch out a lot, but I like to read a few works by each writer, to give me a flavor - I've read the Horace, Catullus, Seneca, Virgil, the famous pieces you mentioned by Ovid, as well as a few choice pieces from others in terms of poetry, that somehow floated my way. Generally though, I like to avoid the classics, especially the Roman ones.

As for Leopardi, the Zibaldone as of yet has not been translated into English (from what I know) - I've read the selections I could find that have been translated, and have tried the original, but quite simply, I haven't made much progress because the language is incredibly difficult, and the text is thousands of pages. I haven't really covered Alfieri or Gozzi (though I have seen the Prokofiev Opera based on his play) yet, as I haven't really gone into reading Drama yet (I don't read much English drama for that matter either) but I have read Orlando Furioso, though not his two plays.

When I read Italian, generally I go for lyric poetry, as it allows me to read it in the original, without spending hours with the dictionary per work trying to figure out what things mean. In that sense, I've covered quite a bit of poetic ground this past year, much of which in the late 19th century and 20th century, since that generally is where my interest lies. But on the whole, It's been quite a busy year, so I don't really have the time to take 15 minutes per sonnet over an extended period of time.

Generally, as a rule, I try to read a) culturally significant texts around what I am studying at the moment, and b) historically unavoidable texts that cannot be ignored in the overall scheme of literature. Beyond that, the bulk of my reading bends toward critical and theoretical thought, which is necessary to build up my writing style with fresher, or newer ideas and forms of expression. Keep in mind, I'm only one person, and there are only really a maximum of 2-3 hours of free time a day during the high season, and during this season probably around 1-2.