Hilarious. So if I call someone Fergalicious it means I want to eat them? Hilarious. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulclem
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Hilarious. So if I call someone Fergalicious it means I want to eat them? Hilarious. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulclem
Here's the OED definition:
Fegalicious: adj - fer-ga-li-shus
As delicious as Fergus was: also used as a general description of something tasty.
Tyrone was fergalicious. It was a fergalicious pizza.
:lol:
I have always considered this song to be really Shakesperian. What do you think?
The Twelfth of Never - Johnny Mathis
You ask how much I need you, must I explain?
I need you, oh my darling, like roses need rain.
You ask how long I'll love you; I'll tell you true:
Until the twelfth of never, I'll still be loving you.
Hold me close, never let me go.
Hold me close, melt my heart like April snow.
I'll love you till the bluebells forget to bloom;
I'll love you till the clover has lost its perfume.
I'll love you till the poets run out of rhyme,
Until the twelfth of never and that's a long, long time.
Hold me close, never let me go.
Hold me close, melt my heart like April snow.
I'll love you till the bluebells forget to bloom;
I'll love you till the clover has lost its perfume.
I'll love you till the poets run out of rhyme,
Until the twelfth of never and that's a long, long time.
Until the twelfth of never and that's a long, long time.
How about Elvis' As long as I have you? Perhaps the best love song I have ever heard:
AS LONG AS I HAVE YOU (Elvis Presley)
Let the stars fade and fall
And I won't care at all
As long as I have you
Every kiss brings a thrill
And I know that it will
As long as I have you
Let's think of the future
Forget the past
You're not my first love
But you're my last
Take the love that I bring
Then I'll have everything
As long as I have you
Let's think of the future
Forget the past
You're not my first love
But you're my last
Take the love that I bring
Then I'll have everything
As long as I have you
As long, as long as I have you
I have always considered this song to be really Shakesperian. What do you think?
:smilielol5::ack2::prrr::mad2::yikes::puke:
That should cover it.
Could you argument this reaction, please?
I think the problem with trying to read song lyrics taken from Pop or rock songs as poetry in the traditional sense is the structure of the songs themselves. Take this song, "Love and Peace, or Else!" by U2:
On the one hand, the lyrics are moderately clever in that this is either a song where war is a metaphor for a sexual relationship or a song where a relationship is a metaphor for war. Release, release, release can mean sexual release or release of his broken heart through violence. Lay down, can mean lay down for sexual intercourse or lay down your weapons. Break the monster's back can mean sexual intercourse or war can be the monster and you're ending war.Quote:
Lay down
Lay down
Lay your sweet lovely on the ground
Lay your love on the track
We're gonna break the monster's back
Yes we are...
Lay down your treasure
Lay it down now brother
You don't have time
For a jealous lover
As you enter this life
I pray you depart
With a wrinkled face
And a brand new heart
I don't know if I can take it
I'm not easy on my knees
Here's my heart I'll let you break it
I need some release, release, release
We need
Love and peace
Love and peace
Lay down
Lay down your guns
All your daughters of Zion
All your Abraham sons
I don't know if I can make it
I'm not easy on my knees
Here's my heart I'll let you break it
I need some release, release, release
We need
Love and peace
Love and peace
Baby don't fight
We can talk this thing through
With me, me and you
I'll call on your phone
The TV is still on
But the sound is turned down
And the troops on the ground
Are about to dig in
And I wonder where is the love?
Where is the love?
Love and peace
Where is the love?
Where is the love?
Where is the love?
On the other, this clearly isn't Shakespeare, or Wordsworth, etc. When taken on its own in lyrical form, the repetition of a line like: "I need some release, release, release" seems kind of silly, blunt, and crude. Ditto the ending repetition of: "Where is the love?" Not to mention the expression itself is rather simplistic. The repetition suggests it was made for music in the first place. When backed by the appropriate chords, this kind of repetition works fine and makes sense. It's hard to compare it to poetry of the traditional sense because of the inherent repetition in music related to rock musical structure, usually with a repeating chorus, which thus repeats the same lyrics over and over again.
I think there are a ton of songs that are meaningful and important and great music, but I'm not sure they function as poetry without their musical backing. This isn't to say that the music works by itself without the lyrics either. The two compliment each other. The music gives the lyrics more power and profundity, while the lyrics give a structure and strength to sheer emotional thrust of the music.
I think what he's saying is that Shakespeare's songs sound more likeQuote:
Originally Posted by downing
O Mistress mine, where are you roaming?
O, stay and hear! Your truelove's coming,
That can sing both high and low.
Trip no further, pretty sweeting.
Journeys end in lovers meeting,
Every wise man's son doth know.
What is love? 'Tis not hereafter.
Present mirth hath present laughter.
What's to come is still unsure.
In delay there lies no plenty,
Then come kiss me, sweet and twenty.
Youth's a stuff will not endure.
Pssh, "I wanna rock and roll all nite and party every day!"Quote:
Originally Posted by mortalterror
Take that Shakespeare!
It's interesting that you compared this song to Shakespeare. I wonder if there is something specific that you have in mind about the song that reminds you of Shakespeare?Quote:
Originally Posted by downing
For one, the verses have a very regular meter, and they're essentially in iambic pentameter. Three of the four lines in each verse are in iambic pentameter (with an anapest in the fourth foot), and the fourth line is in iambic hexameter (again, with an anapest in the fourth foot). One of the great things about well written lyrics is that they tend to have much more compelling rhythmic structures than other forms of contemporary poetry. It's actually somewhat unique that the verses use pentameter; most songs have shorter lines (for example, the Tool song that Molpadia posted earlier, which is in tetrameter), so that may be one thing that made it feel more like Shakespeare to you than other songs do.
I don't usually associate Shakespeare with heterogeneous stanzas like these (extra foot in the last line, regular anapests), but these features are part of the reason I find Spenser so enjoyable.
As for stlukesguild's comment, I think if you've been around long enough you'd know that he is offended by comparisons of established literary authorities to any kind of popular expression. He's written voluminously on it already, and it's unlikely he'll provide any more insight than he already has.
A number of posters scoffed at the meaningless repetitions that appear when songs are transcribed. I think it's quite reasonable to simply leave out the vocal embellishments of performances (the "yeah, yeah, yeah"s and "oh, oh"s). However, repetitions and refrains are sometimes quite important structures not just in songs, but in non-song poetry as well. Many examples can be found, from Theocritus to Shakespeare (Double, double toil and trouble) to T.S. Eliot.
Finally, everyone here seems quite apologetic about reading song lyrics as poems. As far as I'm concerned, song lyrics are well within the range implied when such random scraps as
andQuote:
Afraid of losing you
I ran fluttering
like a little girl
after her mother
are regarded as poetry.Quote:
1(a
le
af
fa
ll
s)
one
l
iness
I somehow find it hard to imagine these lyrics as ordinary peotry because when I'm reading them I automatically fall into the rythm of the songs. Maybe someone who doesn't know the songs will be in better place to comment. Here just some suggestions - and if they don't make for good poetry, they're still awesome songs;) By the way, I'm trying to show that even modern punk pop & rock can have cool lyrics..
Hero of War - Rise Against
He said, "Son,
Have you seen the world?
Well, what would you say
If I said that you could?
Just carry this gun, you'll even get paid."
I said, "That sounds pretty good."
Black leather boots
Spit-shined so bright
They cut off my hair
but it looked alright
We marched and we sang
We all became friends
As we learned how to fight
A hero of war
Yeah, that's what I'll be
And when I come home
They'll be damn proud of me
I'll carry this flag
To the grave if I must
'cause it's the flag that I love
And the flag that I trust
I kicked in the door
I yelled my commands
The children, they cried
But I got my man
We took him away
A bag over his face
From his family and his friends
They took off his clothes
They pissed in his hands
I told them to stop
But then I joined in
We beat him with guns
And batons not just once
But again and again
A hero of war
Yeah that's what I'll be
And when I come home
They'll be damn proud of me
I'll carry this flag
To the grave if I must
'cause it's the flag that I love
And the flag that I trust
She walked
through bullets and haze
I asked her to stop
I begged her to stay
But she pressed on
So I lifted my gun
And I fired away
And the shells
jumped through the smoke
And into the sand
That the blood now had soaked
She collapsed
with a flag in her hand
A flag white as snow
A hero of war
Is that what they see
Just medals and scars
So damn proud of me
And I brought home that flag
Now it gathers dust
But it's the flag that I love
It's the only flag I trust
He said, "Son, have you seen the world?
Well what would you say
If I said that you could?"
East Jesus Nowhere (excerpts) - Green Day
Put your faith in a miracle
and it's non-denominational
join the choir we'll be singing
in the Church of Wishful Thinking
A fire burns today
of blasphemy and genocide
the syrens of decay
will infiltrate the faith fanatics
Oh bless me Lord for I have sinned
It's been a lifetime since I last confessed
I threw my crutches in a river of a shadow of doubt
and I'll be dressed in my Sunday best
Say a prayer for the family
drop a coin for humanity
ain't this uniforms so flattering?
I never a asked you a god damn thing!
A fire burns today
of blasphemy and genocide
the syrens of decay
will infiltrate the inside
Tears into Wine (excerps) - Billy Talent
His fate was written on a neon sign
A DUI never changed his mind
He got hooked like a fish caught on a line
You never gave yourself a chance to shine
Your destination's a chalk outline
And when you get to the gates you'll be denied
White Sparrows - Billy Talent
Today I walked down our old street
Past the diner where we'd meet
Now I dine alone in our old seats
The cold wind blows right through my bones
And I feel like I'm getting old
But I wish I was getting old with you
I held your hand while we took shelter from the rain
She laughed as we picked out our children's names
White sparrows fell from heaven and carried her away
Black arrows cut the strings of my heart,
I kneel and pray
Her clothes hang in the closet still
The phone sits on the windowsill
And every time it rings it gives me chills
My heart just stopped when I was told
Doctor, doctor, on the phone
Said my love was never coming home
I hold your casket gently walking to the grave
Dark clouds eclipse the sun won't shine again
White sparrows fell from heaven and carried her away
Black arrows cut the strings of my heart,
I kneel and pray
They gave her one more day
To say the words I couldn't say
I'm crying in pain, crying in pain
And I'm not looking for answers
No, I'm not looking for answers
But dear God, why did you choose her?
White sparrows fell from heaven and carried her away
Black arrows cut the strings of my heart,
I kneel and pray
They gave her one more day
To say the words I couldn't say
I'm crying in pain, crying in pain
Our love will remain
I'm crying in pain.
I don't think repetition is meaningless, so much as structured around song patterns: Lyrics, chorus, lyrics, chorus, bridge, chorus. My point was really that you can't remove the song lyrics from the music itself. The reason the lyrics are repetitive is usually because the music behind it is repetitive.Quote:
Originally Posted by bluevictim
I mean "Know Your Rights" by The Clash is a great politically-charged song:
But lines like "This is a public service announcement with guitar" clearly lose something when not backed by music. Not to mention if I read it as a straight poem, it comes off as a bit crude and blunt. However, as a song it works well. Listen in The Clash how the music adds both the feeling that we are listening to an actual public service announcement and the malevolent feeling of the nonexistent rights.Quote:
This is a public service announcement
With guitar
Know your rights all three of them
Number 1
You have the right not to be killed
Murder is a CRIME!
Unless it was done by a
Policeman or aristocrat
Know your rights
And Number 2
You have the right to food money
Providing of course you
Don't mind a little
Investigation, humiliation
And if you cross your fingers
Rehabilitation
Know your rights
These are your rights
Wang
Know these rights
Number 3
You have the right to free
Speech as long as you're not
Dumb enough to actually try it.
Know your rights
These are your rights
All three of 'em
It has been suggested
In some quarters that this is not enough!
Well..............................
Get off the streets
Get off the streets
Run
You don't have a home to go to
Smush
Finally then I will read you your rights
You have the right to remain silent
You are warned that anything you say
Can and will be taken down
And used as evidence against you
Listen to this
Run
I am all for music as a kind of poetry. In an American poetry class where we read poetry from 1800s onward: poets like Pound, Frost, Whitman, etc. were included, but we also had the Beat Poets, Bukowski, Slam Poets, and even a modern poet talking about the art of ***-licking (don't remember who the poet was). The last class we were all told to pick a favorite song and print out the lyrics, each person had to present the song, given background on the musical style, on the band itself, and give a quick interpretation of the lyrics and why they liked the song so much. For me I just don't think you can remove the music.
Yes, some of Shakespeare's best songs are repetitive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drkshadow03
or how aboutQuote:
Blow, blow, thou winter wind,
Thou art not so unkind
As man's ingratitude;
Thy tooth is not so keen
Because thou art not seen,
Although thy breath be rude.
Heigh-ho! sing heigh-ho! unto the green holly:
Most friendship is feigning, most loving mere folly:
Then, heigh-ho! the holly!
This life is most jolly.
Freeze, freeze, thou bitter sky,
Thou dost not bite so nigh
As benefits forgot:
Though thou the waters warp,
Thy sting is not so sharp
As friend remember'd not.
Heigh-ho! sing heigh-ho! unto the green holly:
Most friendship is feigning, most loving mere folly:
Then, heigh-ho! the holly!
This life is most jolly.
I am reminded of Blake's Jerusalem HymnQuote:
When that I was and a little tiny boy,
With hey, ho, the wind and the rain,
A foolish thing was but a toy,
For the rain it raineth every day.
But when I came to man’s estate,
With hey, ho, the wind and the rain,
’Gainst knaves and thieves men shut their gate,
For the rain it raineth every day.
But when I came, alas! to wive,
With hey, ho, the wind and the rain,
By swaggering could I never thrive,
For the rain it raineth every day.
But when I came unto my beds,
With hey, ho, the wind and the rain,
With toss-pots still had drunken heads,
For the rain it raineth every day.
A great while ago the world begun,
With hey, ho, the wind and the rain,
But that’s all one, our play is done,
And we’ll strive to please you every day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKaJ4b0XYmIQuote:
And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountains green?
And was the holy Lamb of God
On England's pleasant pastures seen?
And did the Countenance Divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among those dark Satanic mills?
Bring me my bow of burning gold:
Bring me my arrows of desire:
Bring me my spear: O clouds, unfold!
Bring me my chariot of fire!
I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand
Till we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land.
And though I could not find any on the web, I know I've heard Wyatt's sonnets set to music before. Oh well, I did find these English Madrigals.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd0oZXi-YgsQuote:
April is in my mistress' face,
And July in her eyes hath place;
Within her bosom is September,
But in her heart a cold December.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_lD4cYjkj0Quote:
Fair Phyllis I saw sitting all alone
Feeding her flock near to the mountain side.
The shepherds knew not,
they knew not whither she was gone,
But after her lover Amyntas hied,
Up and down he wandered
whilst she was missing;
When he found her,
O then they fell a-kissing.
I agree that there are common forms of song, and I agree that the repetition of lyrics found in many songs are closely related to the form of the song. I disagree that the lyrics are usually repetitive merely because the music behind it is repetitive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drkshadow03
The refrains found so commonly in songs serve many purposes beyond just being verbal filler for the music. Sometimes they provide segues between different episodes of a narrative. Sometimes they serve as a point of contact for otherwise disparate (or not obviously connected) observations. Often they reinforce a central theme of the song. The repetition is often very crucial to the economy with which many songs achieve a deep emotional effect. The repetition is usually entirely intentional, and not merely because the music happens to repeat; after all, the music of the verses repeat, too, but the lyrics usually do not.
As an example, I think the Beatles' Eleanor Rigby is quite an effective song about loneliness, which is not atypical in its use of a refrain. The pad between the verse about Eleanor Rigby and Father MacKenzie helps to create the tension in the narrative whose resolution comes when the two threads come together (when Father MacKenzie buries Eleanor Rigby). At the same time, it deepens the emotional response of the audience to the bare wisps of narrative provided in the verses.
I also somewhat disagree that you can't remove the lyrics from the music. I think it goes without saying that the music enhances the song (in most cases), and it's quite clear that the lyrics of some songs are particularly reliant on the music (and even sometimes sound effects) -- that Clash song being a great example. However, there are many songs whose lyrics do repay attention even apart from their music. Sometimes, I find reading the lyrics without the music even reveals things about the song that I miss when I listen to the song because my visceral response to the music makes me overlook them.
Has anyone mentioned W. S. Gilbert from Gilbert and Sullivan? He was knighted long after Sullivan presumable because of his very critical view of politics.
His librettos are biting but often their beauty is overlooked.
King.
Oh, better far to live and die
Under the brave black flag I fly,
Than play a sanctimonious part,
With a pirate head and a pirate heart.
Away to the cheating world go you,
Where pirates all are well-to-do;
But I’ll be true to the song I sing,
And live and die a Pirate King.
For I am a Pirate King!
And it is, it is a glorious thing
To be a Pirate King!
For I am a Pirate King!
Chorus.
You are!
Hurrah for our Pirate King!
King.
And it is, it is a glorious thing
To be a Pirate King.
Chorus.
It is!
Hurrah for our Pirate King!
King & Chorus.
Hurrah for the/our Pirate King!
King. Darrell Fancourt as the Pirate King
1926
When I sally forth to seek my prey
I help myself in a royal way.
I sink a few more ships, it’s true,
Than a well-bred monarch ought to do;
But many a king on a first-class throne,
If he wants to call his crown his own,
Must manage somehow to get through
More dirty work than ever I do,
For I am a Pirate King!
And it is, it is a glorious thing
To be a Pirate King!
For I am a Pirate King!
Chorus.
You are!
Hurrah for the Pirate King!
King.
And it is, it is a glorious thing
To be a Pirate King.
Chorus.
It is!
Hurrah for our Pirate King!
King & Chorus.
Hurrah for the/our Pirate King!
And of course the Major General's solo. This time do it REALLY fast!
I am the very model of a modern Major-General,
I've information vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I know the kings of England, and I quote the fights historical
From Marathon to Waterloo, in order categorical;
I'm very well acquainted, too, with matters mathematical,
I understand equations, both the simple and quadratical,
About binomial theorem I'm teeming with a lot o' news,
With many cheerful facts about the square of the hypotenuse.
I'm very good at integral and differential calculus;
I know the scientific names of beings animalculous:
In short, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I am the very model of a modern Major-General.
I know our mythic history, King Arthur's and Sir Caradoc's;
I answer hard acrostics, I've a pretty taste for paradox,
I quote in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabalus,
In conics I can floor peculiarities parabolous;
I can tell undoubted Raphaels from Gerard Dows and Zoffanies,
I know the croaking chorus from The Frogs of Aristophanes!
Then I can hum a fugue of which I've heard the music's din afore,
And whistle all the airs from that infernal nonsense Pinafore.
Then I can write a washing bill in Babylonic cuneiform,
And tell you ev'ry detail of Caractacus's uniform:
In short, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I am the very model of a modern Major-General.
In fact, when I know what is meant by "mamelon" and "ravelin",
When I can tell at sight a Mauser rifle from a javelin,
When such affairs as sorties and surprises I'm more wary at,
And when I know precisely what is meant by "commissariat",
When I have learnt what progress has been made in modern gunnery,
When I know more of tactics than a novice in a nunnery—
In short, when I've a smattering of elemental strategy—
You'll say a better Major-General has never sat a gee.
For my military knowledge, though I'm plucky and adventury,
Has only been brought down to the beginning of the century;
But still, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I am the very model of a modern Major-General.
I'm not sure you're comments disagree with anything I said. Lyrics are repetitive because the musical patterns are repetitive. Choruses, of course, provide the central theme for the musical composition of a rock song, hence why they repeat the choruses in the first place (both musically and lyrically), and serve as segues between the lyrics. It's the glue so to speak of a song.Quote:
Originally Posted by bluevictim
I think lyrics can be very meaningful. I just don't think they're meant to be read as poetry in the same way a Shakespeare poem is supposed to be read.
I mean I like The Rolling Stones a lot, but is "Hot Stuff" really all that deep song?
And what about songs that fulfill part of the thematic work through solos when there isn't any lyrics being song, such as the solo guitar work in Metallica's Ride the Lightning, which imitates lightning coursing through someone's body (at 3:43, although the solo starts earlier than that, I consider that the "lightning coursing through a body" part).Quote:
Hot stuff, yeah
Hot stuff
Hot stuff, yeah
Hot stuff
Can't get enough
Hot stuff, yeah
Hot stuff
Hot stuff
Can't get enough
The music is mighty, mighty fine
Hot stuff
Hot stuff
Can't get enough
Hot stuff
Can't get enough
Hot stuff
Can't get enough
The music is mighty, mighty fine
Hot stuff
Hot stuff
I can't get enough
Hot stuff
Play it rough, yeah
I can't get enough
'Cause music is what I want
To keep my body always moving, yeah
Shake it up
Hot stuff
Every day I need another dose
I can't stand it when the music stop
Hot stuff
Everybody on the dancefloor
You know what I'm talkin' about
Music make you forget all your trouble
Make you kiss and make you tell the whole wide world
So what
Hot stuff
Hot stuff
Shake it up
Shake it up
I wanna tell all my friends in London
There ain't nothin' wrong with you
But you better shape up, yeah
Shake it up
You're hot stuff
All the people in New York City
I know you are goin' broke
But I know you're tough, yeah
You're hot stuff
Hot stuff
To everybody in Jamaica
That is workin' in the sun
You're hot
You're hot stuff
Shake it up
Shake it up
You're hot stuff
Hot stuff
Play it rough
Hot stuff
Shake it up
Hot stuff
Rarely do lyrics reach the depth of any of Shakespeare's poetry by themselves. Looking at the variety of lyrics posted here in this thread hasn't changed my mind at all on that point. However, I think lyrics can be meaningful. I'm certainly not calling them meaningless and vapid. I thought the U2 lyrics that I posted were meaningful.
Maybe we are just talking in circles. Let me try to clarify.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drkshadow03
Here is what I thought you were/are trying to say:
You can't remove the song lyrics from the music itself.
Reason 1. When you read the song lyrics without the music, they aren't at all like Shakespeare.
Reason 2. This song by the Clash is pretty lame without the music.
Reason 3. This song by the Rolling Stones is pretty lame without the music.
Reason 4. This song by Metallica rocks when you consider the guitar part.
Sub-point: the reason song lyrics are repetitive is usually because the music behind it is repetitive
My previous post was mainly about the sub-point concerning repetition. I guess I probably made too much of the word "because". I agree that repetition in songs often follow a form (as does repetition in poems). I thought you were trying to say that the repetition in the lyrics is merely an artifact of the music. Now I'm not sure what you were trying to say. To say that the lyrics often repeat according to a structure seems tautological to me. Maybe you were just musing and I mistook it as some point you were trying to get across.
I also tried to touch on the point that "you can't remove the song lyrics from the music itself". If all you meant was that there are some songs that are lame when the lyrics are considered apart from the music, I fully agree. I don't agree that this is true of songs in general.
I do agree that most lyrics do not read like Shakespearean poems. In fact, I would agree that even the best song lyrics do not give the same kind of enjoyment as Shakespeare (usually). I don't see why this means you can't remove the song lyrics from the music, though. Song lyrics, even apart from the music, often provide a different kind of enjoyment. If this is all you meant , I agree, but I dislike the use of the word 'depth' to describe the difference. Song lyrics are not as 'deep' as Shakespeare only in the sense that Ovid is not as 'deep' as Virgil.
As for there being examples of song lyrics that aren't compelling without the music (like Hot Stuff) and examples of songs where music adds a lot to the lyrics (like Ride the Lightning), I don't see what their existence is meant to imply about the quality of other song lyrics. I think there are many examples of songs whose lyrics are very rewarding to read. I already mentioned Eleanor Rigby, which I think achieves a great amount of emotional resonance with a very brief narrative. Not even Coleridge and Wordsworth's lyrical ballads are as efficient. I think the lyrics of Stairway to Heaven are very well-written, as well. The metrical structure of that song is quite rich, and reminds me of ancient Greek lyrics, like the choruses of the tragedies. I have come across few contemporary non-song poems as effective in their rhythmic structures, and this kind of complexity isn't typical of Shakespeare. There are also great examples from musical theater, like the one Modest Proposal posted above.
It's probable that I simply missed something entirely about what you are trying to say.Quote:
However, I think lyrics can be meaningful. I'm certainly not calling them meaningless and vapid. I thought the U2 lyrics that I posted were meaningful.
I love it. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Modest Proposal
I'm also a fan of Gilbert and Sullivan.
Any bob dylan's song!
One or two of Jason Mraz's song -- A Beautiful Mess and Plane have the best lyrics..it might not be conventional but you can say its a postmodern poem
Yea, I guess. And of a modern song as well, he is pretty cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teeqs89
I don't think you would count these as song lyrics that qualify as poetry but every line in the song is taken from a book by Elizabeth Smart called "By Grand Central Station I sat down and wept" right from "Do you hear me when you sleep?"
The book still has something of a cult standing
Well I wonder
Do you hear me when you sleep ?
I hoarsely cry
Why ...
Well I wonder
Do you see me when we pass ?
I half die ...
Why ...
Please keep me in mind
Gasping - but somehow still alive
This is the fierce last stand of all I am
Gasping - dying - but somehow still alive
This is the final stand of all I am
These are a few of the lines, in moderately messed up order, of I'm Going Slighty Mad by Queen. Would make an awesome extended metaphor. Enough so, anyway.
" You're missing that one final screw
You're simply not in the pink my dear
To be honest you haven't got a clue
I'm one card short of a full deck
I'm not quite the shilling
One wave short of a shipwreck
I'm not at my usual top billing
I'm coming down with a fever
I'm really out to sea
This kettle is boiling over
I think I'm a banana tree
I'm knitting with only one needle
Unravelling fast its true
I'm driving only three wheels these days "
folk and riot folk seem to be the closest I can think of to poetry lol. Of coruse like always its heard better then read.
Mischief Brew - Ramblers Ghost
she's off to anywhere
every town grows stale soon enough
so it's fields to east and the hills to the west
under crescent moons
and grassy bends
she lays her head to rest
she's been in a hundred movies
and in six billion dreams
taking out wood and wide
singing romance round the fire
giving tastes of truth to those of us employed as liars
and we sing ain't that the life
she's got it made
her head in the sand her guitar in the shade
rambling beauty she sang to me
was she in my mind
or on the tv
yes she's on my mind
come from the tv
noble hobo corporate cutthroat got the wisdom of the tramp
brother can't spare no crumbs
don't you trip over the bums
as you step out of a cab
on the way to see a gypsy band
railroad boxcar blasts and burns on down the line
and her feet are a swingin'
and the song she's a singin'
tell of greener fields and freer times
and we sing ain't that the life
she's got it made
her head in the sand her guitar in the shade
rambling beauty she sang to me
was she in my mind
or on the tv
yes she's on my mind
come from the tv
rambling beauty
let me be your mate for awhile
be a shoulder for your head
carry a bag and roll up bed
another day in this place
and i swear i'll end up dead
and how I'm sorry
that my ancestors threw you in jail
but now I can see your ramblings were poetry
will you sell me the rights if I put up the bail?
and we'll sing ain't that the life
we've got it made
our heads in the sand our guitars in the shade
rambling beauty sing sweet to me
yeah you're on my mind
just like on tv
yeah you're on my mind
come from the tv
Mischief Brew - A Rebel's Romance
Goodnight, my dear
Lay aside songs of spite and fear
We lovers are bound
Completing the circle and waltzing around
Your words soothe as fire
Roaring and washing the tinsel from liars
And with every kiss, solace and bliss, will not seem so rare
A rebel's embrace, shall give us a taste
Of truth that is masked by a sly poker face
A spirit is well and alive
Live and we will survive.
Goodnight, my love
The moon, she shines from above
So forgot all the rough
Rejoice and revolt with love when you rise up
Your words soothe as waters;
Carving a path through mountains and mortar
To shatter the ground, walls of silence with sound
With lions and doves
A rebel's embrace, shall give us a taste
Of truth that is masked by a sly poker face
A spirit is well and alive
Live and we will survive.
Apologies for not reading all the comments. I have to disappear soon. Probably Springsteen has been quoted and this is my fave. Thunder Road.
Well I got this guitar
And I learned how to make it talk
And my car's out back
If you're ready to take that long walk
From your front porch to my front seat
The door's open but the ride it ain't free
And I know you're lonely
For words that I ain't spoken
But tonight we'll be free
All the promises'll be broken
There were ghosts in the eyes
Of all the boys you sent away
They haunt this dusty beach road
In the skeleton frames of burned out Chevrolets
They scream your name at night in the street
Your graduation gown lies in rags at their feet
And in the lonely cool before dawn
You hear their engines roaring on
But when you get to the porch they're gone
On the wind so Mary climb in
It's town full of losers
And I'm pulling out of here to win
Arctic Monkeys man Alex Turner is an amazing lyricist (if that's a word)
Fright Lined Dining Room
You thrive on dancing in our laps before the more familiar chaps who know the curtain leads to fever
We watched a womanizer cry and in the last sip you and I declared we might require a breather
I am a truth’s true truant and I can feign excitement fluently as solidly as I can busk shock.
With well presented merriment and I know all too well I shouldn’t break the key off in the lock
The tumble splits the frame revealing silk and fits
in the fright lined dining room throw a gaze towards them while they feast
The days drag their heels when you’re not there to crack the whip
And the weeks wait to burst like a sachet of brats
The old pantomime villain follows my coat and he hides where it hangs and he spies through the slats
And meanwhile in the desert’s only costume shop the cowls hang and wait to rot away the identities of the willing
I’m back to sugar in the night, rocketing shutter doors despite the shop not opening for hours
You can itch, flap and whistle.
Try to avoid the tock
as I scribbled over drivel you were snoring showing off.
The tumble splits the frame revealing silk and fits in the fright lined dining room
throw a gaze towards them while they feast.
Catapult
Both sides,
In softly came the growl from both sides
And if his whisper splits the mist
Just think of what he’s capable of with his kiss
Nice try,
You cannot turn away, but nice try
He’ll turn your legs to little building blocks and with his index finger flicks you on your socks
I go high pitched
He’ll talk and make your voice sound high pitched
Dread to think if he got you on your own and whispered in your ear in that baritone
It’s the same stone
His heart was cut out of the same stone that they use to carve his jaw
It’s impossible not to feel inferior
And he could catapult you back to your daddy or into any hissing misery
And he will tell you how the day after a triumph is as hollow as the day after a tragedy
He’ll extinguish any chance of escape when he slaps you on your arse or kisses your nape
And he’s leaving without saying bye
And they would queue up to listen to him pissing and hang around to watch some poor girl blub
And then they’d chase him down the avenue incessantly pestering him to let him join the club
He knows how to put a cork in the fuss and just how to shut up the charming ones of us
And I’ve seen him talking to your lady friend
There’s a dust track waiting for betrayal where he’ll teach you all the bits they missed
Dance Little Liar
I heard the truth was built to bend.
A mechanism to suspend the guilt is what you will require
and still you’ve got to dance little liar
It’s just like those fibs to pop and fizz
and you’ll be forced to take that awful quiz
and you’re bound to trip and she’ll detect the fiction on your lips
dig a contradiction up
The clean coming will hurt
and you can never get it spotless
when there’s dirt beneath the dirt
The liar takes a lot less time
I’m sure it’s clear and plain to read
It’s not an alibi you need just yet
Oh no, it’s something for those beads of sweat,
yes that will get you back to normal
And after you have dabbed the patch
you’ll breathe and then proceed to scratch the varnish off that newly
added calmness so as not to raise any alarms too soon
The liar takes a lot less time to decide on the saunter
Have you got itchy bones and in all your time alone
can you hack your mind being riddled with the wrong memories?
The clean coming will hurt
and you can never get it spotless
When there’s dirt in between the dirt
the lyrics of this song, well for me, made an impact
and i think it sends a good message :blush:
In Keeping Secrets of Silent Earth:3 by Coheed and Cambria
A broad incision sits across the evening
The victim to our fathers lost war
The restless children sit and mourn the graves
Of those they've never seen before
Will they be buried here among the dead?
In the silent secret
The pioneers
In dealing with it they march for dawn, of Will and worthy
The truth be told the child was born
Man your own jackhammer
Man your battle stations
We'll have you dead pretty soon
And now
Sincerely written from my brother's blood machine
Man your battle stations
We'll have you home pretty soon
And now
Awake through motion with curiosity to curtain your first move
Over arms length they'll break protocol
Jealous envy for the youngest one
To be the hero is all I'll ask
Can I be buried here among the dead?
With room to honor me here in the end
You'll be better off too soon
You'll be better off when you get home
For you,
I'd do anything just to make you happy,
hear you tell me that you’re proud of me
For them,
I'll kill anything cut the throats of babies for them
break their hearts for they were them
Waiting for you to say: I love you too
The navigator
The pilot
Her favorite
The one they call the vision that bears the gift
Will,
Do the children really understand the things you did to them?
And why oh why…
Should they conjure up the will for you my love I would kill him
we're coming home pretty soon
Coming home
In the seventh turning hour
Will the victims shadow fall?
Should the irony grow hungry?
With the victory and all they sought for
We were one among the fence
One among the fence
We're coming home
Man your own jackhammer
Man your battle stations
We'll have you dead pretty soon
And now
Sincerely written from my brother's blood machine
Man your battle stations
We'll have you home pretty soon
tonight
Every Grain of Sand
Bob Dylan
In the time of my confession,
in the hour of my deepest need
When the pool of tears beneath my feet
flood every newborn seed
There's a dyin' voice within me
reaching out somewhere,
Toiling in the danger and in
the morals of despair.
Don't have the inclination to
look back on any mistake,
Like Cain,
I now behold this chain of events
that I must break.
In the fury of the moment
I can see the Master's hand
In every leaf that trembles,
in every grain of sand.
Oh, the flowers of indulgence
and the weeds of yesteryear,
Like criminals,
they have choked the breath
of conscience and good cheer.
The sun beat down upon the steps
of time to light the way
To ease the pain of idleness
and the memory of decay.
I gaze into the doorway of
temptation's angry flame
And every time I pass that way
I always hear my name.
Then onward in my journey
I come to understand
That every hair is numbered
like every grain of sand.
I have gone from rags to riches
in the sorrow of the night
In the violence of a summer's dream,
in the chill of a wintry light,
In the bitter dance of loneliness
fading into space,
In the broken mirror of innocence
on each forgotten face.
I hear the ancient footsteps like
the motion of the sea
Sometimes I turn, there's someone there,
other times it's only me.
I am hanging in the balance
of the reality of man
Like every sparrow falling,
like every grain of sand.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Within You Without You
The Beatles (Harrison)
We were talking-about the space between us all
And the people-who hide themselves behind a wall of illusion
Never glimpse the truth-then it's far too late-when they pass away.
We were talking-about the love we all could share-when we find it
To try our best to hold it there-with our love
With our love-we could save the world-if they only knew.
Try to realise it's all within yourself
no-one else can make you change
And to see you're really only very small,
and life flows within you and without you.
We were talking-about the love that's gone so cold and the people,
Who gain the world and lose their soul-
they don't know-they can't see-are you one of them?
When you've seen beyond yourself-then you may find, peace of mind,
is waiting there-
And the time will come when you see
we're all one, and life flows on within you and without you.
"Ripple"
Grateful Dead
Words by Robert Hunter; music by Jerry Garcia.
If my words did glow with the gold of sunshine
And my tunes were played on the harp unstrung
Would you hear my voice come through the music
Would you hold it near as it were your own?
It's a hand-me-down, the thoughts are broken
Perhaps they're better left unsung
I don't know, don't really care
Let there be songs to fill the air
(Chorus)
Ripple in still water
When there is no pebble tossed
Nor wind to blow
Reach out your hand if your cup be empty
If your cup is full may it be again
Let it be known there is a fountain
That was not made by the hands of men
There is a road, no simple highway
Between the dawn and the dark of night
And if you go no one may follow
That path is for your steps alone
(Chorus)
You who choose to lead must follow
But if you fall you fall alone
If you should stand then who's to guide you?
If I knew the way I would take you home
I think the lyrics to the bosa nova song, 'The Girl from Ipanema' is poetry:
"Tall and Tan and young and lovely
the girl from Ipanema goes walking
and as she passes, each one she passes
goes, ahh..."
It has always been one of my favorites, because when I heard it sung I could see this young woman with all eyes on her as she walked completely unaware toward the beautiful blue ocean and soft sandy beach.
Many of Bob Dylans lyrics. Byt this two I also like.
Into My Arms by Nick Cave
I don't believe in an interventionist God
But I know, darling, that you do
But if I did I would kneel down and ask Him
Not to intervene when it came to you
Not to touch a hair on your head
To leave you as you are
And if He felt He had to direct you
Then direct you into my arms
Into my arms, O Lord, into my arms
Into my arms, O Lord, into my arms
Into my arms, O Lord, into my arms
Into my arms, O Lord, into my arms
Into my arms, O Lord, into my arms
Into my arms, O Lord, into my arms
And I don't believe in the existence of angels
But looking at you I wonder if that's true
But if I did I would summon them together
And ask them to watch over you
To each burn a candle for you
To make bright and clear your path
And to walk,like Christ, in grace and love
And guide you into my arms
Into my arms, O Lord, into my arms
Into my arms, O Lord, into my arms
But I believe in Love
And I know that you do too
And I believe in some kind of path
That we can walk down, me and you
So keep your candles burning
And make her journey bright and pure
That she will keep returning
Always and evermore
Into my arms, O Lord, into my arms
Into my arms, O Lord, into my arms
Into my arms, O Lord, into my arms
Fruit Tree by Nick Drake
Fame is but a fruit tree
So very unsound.
It can never flourish
Till its stock is in the ground.
So men of fame
Can never find a way
Till time has flown
Far from their dying day.
Forgotten while you're here
Remembered for a while
A much updated ruin
From a much outdated style.
Life is but a memory
Happened long ago.
Theatre full of sadness
For a long forgotten show.
Seems so easy
Just to let it go on by
Till you stop and wonder
Why you never wondered why.
Safe in the womb
Of an everlasting night
You find the darkness can
Give the brightest light.
Safe in your place deep in the earth
That's when they'll know what you were really worth.
Forgotten while you're here
Remembered for a while
A much updated ruin
From a much outdated style.
Fame is but a fruit tree
So very unsound.
It can never flourish
Till its stock is in the ground.
So men of fame
Can never find a way
Till time has flown
Far from their dying day.
Fruit tree, fruit tree
No-one knows you but the rain and the air.
Don't you worry
They'll stand and stare when you're gone.
Fruit tree, fruit tree
Open your eyes to another year.
They'll all know
That you were here when you're gone.
I'm sure somebody has mentioned this already, but a lot of "stand alone" poetry was originally intended as song, like much of Shelley's work and arguably Homer's epics, among many others. I think poetry and song are two sides of the same coin, so to speak
it is hard to make a song sound like a poem if you constantly have the repeating chorus. take that out and it will sound much better.
"It's just a piece of paper,
It says IN GOD WE TRUST,
A little short-felt good,
But a lot is not enough
And everybody loved me
When I was on a role
And I thought i held everything
When I held the gold
But you're not my God,
You're not my friend,
You're not the one that I will walk with in the end
You're not the truth
You're a temporary shot
And you ruin peoples lives and don't give a second thought
You're not my God."
Not My God by Keith Urban
This is a translation from Vladimir Vysotsky; his song Skazal sebe ya: bros' pisat'...
If you're not familiar with him I can't tell you much, I just found about him a month and a half ago. All I know is his music is beautiful and he was important in Russian history.
I did ``'s for the line indentions.
I think the last stanza is a little loose, but the rest of it, being a translation, stands pretty nicely.
I told myself:- must stop to write!
But stubborn hands will not comply,
Oh, help me mother! Friends - I'm in a fix!
I lie in bed - they grin at me,
They might attack me terribly,
I'm scared to sleep: they're noiseless, hopeless freaks.
The psychos vary here, and sure,
`` Not all are rowdy, some impure,
Receiving treatment - getting starved and beat,
But here is what surprises me:
`` These madmen here are walking free,
And all the food that I receive, they simply take and eat.
Great Dostoyevsky's fallen short
`` With the renowned, famous "Notes"!*
I wish the poor deceased could come and see!
The famous Gogol* I could tell
`` Such stories of this life in hell
That sure to God, this Gogol would most-boggled be!
Can't stand this! Spit on those baboons,
`` 'cause after all, they're rowdy loons!
They always aim to lick me on my face!
Just yesterday, in seventh ward,
`` One madman lost his mind and roared,-
He yelled, "America!" and stormed around the place.
I don't want fame, and just for now,
`` I'm still remaining sane somehow,
I've yet to lose my head, but that's my fate.
Here is the chief,- the woman nurse,
`` She's just a little crazed of course,
I yell that I am going mad and she just tells me: "Wait."
And I am sensing while I wait,
`` I'm walking on a sharpened blade,-
Forgot the alphabet,- my language's Greek to me!
And I am asking friends mine this
`` Whoever I'm of theirs is
Of him, to take, his, me away from outtahere!
I hope you never lose your sense of wonder
You get your fill to eat
But always keep that hunger
May you never take one single breath for granted
God forbid love ever leave you empty handed
I hope you still feel small
When you stand by the ocean
Whenever one door closes, I hope one more opens
Promise me you'll give faith a fighting chance
And when you get the choice to sit it out or dance
I hope you dance
I hope you dance
I hope you never fear those mountains in the distance
Never settle for the path of least resistance
Living might mean taking chances
But they're worth taking
Lovin' might be a mistake
But it's worth making
Don't let some hell bent heart
Leave you bitter
When you come close to selling out
Reconsider
Give the heavens above
More than just a passing glance
And when you get the choice to sit it out or dance
I hope you dance
(Time is a real and constant motion always)
I hope you dance
(Rolling us along)
I hope you dance
(Tell me who)
I hope you dance
(Wants to look back on their youth and wonder)
(Where those years have gone)
I hope you still feel small
When you stand by the ocean
Whenever one door closes, I hope one more opens
Promise me you'll give faith a fighting chance
And when you get the choice to sit it out or dance
Dance
I hope you dance
I hope you dance
(Time is a real and constant motion always)
I hope you dance
(Rolling us along)
I hope you dance
(Tell me who)
(Wants to look back on their youth and wonder)
I hope you dance
(Where those years have gone)
(Tell me who)
I hope you dance
(Wants to look back on their youth and wonder)
(Where those years have gone)
I had an English teacher that introduced us to poetry in this manner: First, he asked how many of us had bought a book of poetry in the last year. A few people raised their hands. Then, he asked how many had bought a book of poetry in the last month. No one raised their hands. He asked these questions again, substituting a CD of music for a book of poetry, and everyone had their hands raised for both questions. He proceeded to tell us how he thought this was ridiculous, that songs are merely poems with additional music added to them since poems contain music within themselves, are inherently musical. I liked his introduction and would say that all songs are arguably poems. Some songs may not be good poems, just like some poems are not good poems. I think this raises an interesting question of why a song writer is a songwriter and not a poet, and a poet is not a songwriter. In my opinion, both are concerned with the music of the line, although one may lean on instrumentation.
When I first heard this recording on Youtube I was surprised by how close to a song Yeats's reading of his own poem was. I actually prefer the voice in my head to Yeats's reading, terrible as that might be to say. But this makes me wonder if the divergence of song and poetry isn't more recent than we tend to think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2FT4_UUa4I
Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin Butler
Because yout teacher with the good intention of showing that rhytimic language is not something gay and outdate and everyone can enjoy it, is teaching you wrongly.
Song - or Music - is an art on its own. It actually predates the existence of literature (and poems) for quite awhile. In fact, Poems and writer are trying to get the status of music, not the other way around, but fabricating a form of writing (not singing, which is what you do with songs) that produces on readers the "Illusion" of musicallity. When you read a poem, you have no real sound, music, just silence.
When you sing it, using words as lyrics, you move to another art (which is verbal) which is music. You do not even need to have the words written in first place.
That is why a songwriter is a songwriter. And a poet is a poet. They aim for things that may be similar but have different ends. (And of course, nothing stops a songwriter to be a poet, as some have been, but as one of the most fmaous today, Leonard Cohen would put, when he is writing a song, he is writing a song, when he is writing a poem, he is writing a poem).
I had an English teacher that introduced us to poetry in this manner: First, he asked how many of us had bought a book of poetry in the last year. A few people raised their hands. Then, he asked how many had bought a book of poetry in the last month. No one raised their hands. He asked these questions again, substituting a CD of music for a book of poetry, and everyone had their hands raised for both questions. He proceeded to tell us how he thought this was ridiculous, that songs are merely poems with additional music added to them since poems contain music within themselves, are inherently musical. I liked his introduction and would say that all songs are arguably poems. Some songs may not be good poems, just like some poems are not good poems. I think this raises an interesting question of why a song writer is a songwriter and not a poet, and a poet is not a songwriter. In my opinion, both are concerned with the music of the line, although one may lean on instrumentation.
I confronted this question some time ago in another thread devoted to the same question as to why 'good' songs were not also recognized as 'good' poetry:
Poetry... in written form... relies solely upon the words to create the music and the meaning. This is quite different from song. With a song (an aria, chanson, lieder, ballad, pop song, etc...) the music and the words combine to create the music and the meaning. If we take a song such as the Beatle's Norwegian Wood, the lyrics in and of themselves are not bad. There is something open-ended and surely more sophisticated than the usual teen age love song... but we are not talking Shelley/Keats/Blake/Yeats here. The "meaning" or aesthetic impact, however, does not lie solely with the lyrics, nor the music. Indeed, the song is greater than the sum of its separate elements.
Perhaps the greatest example of this is to be found in the songs of Franz Schubert, long acknowledged as the greatest classical song writer. Schubert famously set a cycle of poems by Wilhelm Müller known as Die Winterreise (the Winter's Journey) to music. The poems on their own are but mediocre to average examples of German Romantic poetry. They most certainly are not of the level of Goethe, Schiller, Holderlin, or many others whom he might have set (and did on other occasions). The musical accompaniment, however... the piano and the vocal... reinforce... expand... or even contrast with the actual lyrics making the end result far more profound that the lyrics standing upon their own.
The attempt to tear down an art form into separate elements seems wrong-headed to me. Just because a film works brilliantly, in no way means that if we dissect it we will find that each individual element will stand as a brilliant work of art independent of the whole: that the screen play will stand as great novel, the cinematography as equal to Anselm Adams, the musical score as worthy of standing along side Beethoven, etc... The whole in a work of art is not necessarily simply defined as a sum of the parts. Inflated claims for the "poetry" of John Lennon, Robert Plant, Lou Reed, etc... underestimates real poetry as well as it underestimates the the importance of the music in song and the merger of the two in creating a new art form... whole in and of itself.
I think people forget how writing is artificial and try to understand the musicality of a text or the rhytim (not a exclusive trait of poetry) as if it is the same as music. It is too much literal interpretation of a text. Just like a painting has elements that are artifical caused by the perspective but represent a real world, poetry does it with music and sounds. They are not there, they are represented and it is an aesthetic effect the impression we have that people are singing the poems to the point we vocalize the poems (or feel the urge for it).
Of course, several poems work well with music, of course, several metrical systems are born from lyrical experiments, but just like it is different the experience of a teatre and the reading of a dramatic text.
Most people would not know him, since he is brazilian, well, maybe would know his fame as musician, as his importance for Bossa Nova and being the co-writer of Girl from Ipanena, but Vinicius de Moraes was really the most talented (much more than Dylan, Reed or Cohen) lyricist -poet. His sonnet collection is widely read, some of the best sonnets collection of all portuguese literature, and of course, with him, it is extreme hard to put apart the lyricist and the poet. But this simple because he always said he was an amateur that knew good musicians, liked women, beach, drink and music and wrote thinking of poems that luckly went well sung.
Some prose works well with music too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMEacD_4VdI
Good fun and wonder will come to those who hear it. :)
Even having this argument seems like a mistake to me.