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Hey look, I was not the only one. When we first started talking about the story, the very first thing I said, was that I got the impression that he was a homoxexual.Quote:
Originally Posted by islandclimber
And they all laughed at me :(
Nah, I kid, it was all in good fun.
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Originally Posted by islandclimber
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Originally Posted by Virgil
I thought the point with Bertie is that he's incapable of intimacy with women and men. Homosexuality would clash with the characterization of him as a nervous, distant type of person because it would mean that he really does desire relationships--just not in the usual sense. The other characters look at him as asexual or neuter, and this is probably closer to the truth. Besides, if he were gay, he probably would be turned on by that last scene.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Muse
I agree completely, this is what I was trying to say, you just put it much better...Quote:
Are you saying the nearness between the married couple drives a wedge between them? My interpretation has been that they are quite satisfied with each other and the relationship but that the outside world seems to intrude. But I think that requires some modification which I think your observation suggests. It's like they have done that (be happy with each other) so what's next? It's been a year or so, now what? They as a couple need to do something else because they can't remain static. Human longings take over, although I suspect that maurice would be quite happy in his elemnt if he were left alone. But he's not alone, he's married and linked with Isabel and as a couple they can't just remain static.
I'm not sure.. for some reason I get the feel the physical intimacy they have Maurice seems to be hurt by it at times, again it is just a feeling I got witht nothing really to back it up... it seems though they are intimate, he broods on it as well..Quote:
I'm not sure I see that. Where in the text do you think that's suggested? He's certainly has impregnated her, so they have intimacy.
I don't know if offensive was the right way to put it... it just seems that Bertie is being the ironic and too smart Scot that Maurice disliked so much in earlier explanation of why the two men disliked each other... it seems he is prodding and Maurice is uncomfortable with it... so maybe not offensive, just not the right way to behave with Maurice at the time...Quote:
What is it you find offensive?
I agree completely:thumbs_upQuote:
Yes I wanted to bring this out about Bertie. Why is he destroyed by this simple exchange? His identity rests soley on a mental consciousness, and the touch with this other worlld, this blood consciousness, this world that animals reside in, is as repelant as oil and water. This contact aniliates (sp?) his very identity. While Maurice enlarges his world by the contact, Bertie shrinks from it.
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By Virgil
Not at all out of field. The story behind the story is that Bertie is modeled on Bertram Russell, the philosopher, who at one point was friends with Lawrence, and which they had a famous break. Lawrence realized Russell was pure mental consciousness (especially the type of philosophy Russell was involved with) and was removed from tangible real life, and one who complete doesn't grasp what Lawrence referred to as blood consciousness.
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which is why it is the man who cracks his mollusk shell, and melts away his reserve, and he is terrified of this intimacy because of it... I believe it is hinted at all the way to this point, with all the comments about his inability to be anything but a friend of women, and the end clinches it..
Can you elaborate on that? I've wondered why Bertie is incapeable of intimacy and it's linked by implication to his homosexuality. Homosexuality creeps into a number of Lawrence's works and some critics have thought he was a closet homosexual or a repressed homosexual. My reading of Lawrence is that he isn't, but i guess it's a contrversy. I think people confuse our current understanding of homosexuality with whatever notion Lawrence had of it. I think Lawrence has a particualr understanding of homosexuality in this story, and i'm not sure I know what it is. For instance, Maurice gets a sort of pleasure out of this exchange, and we know he's not homosexual.
I found this on wikipedia about Lawrence...Quote:
By Quark
I thought the point with Bertie is that he's incapable of intimacy with women and men. Homosexuality would clash with the characterization of him as a nervous, distant type of person because it would mean that he really does desire relationships--just not in the usual sense. The other characters look at him as asexual or neuter, and this is probably closer to the truth. Besides, if he were gay, he probably would be turned on by that last scene.
I don't know how accurate wikipedia always is but I found this interesting... It seems to fit Bertie though (the greatness part)... Bertie approaching greatness as a barrister tends towards homosexuality as Lawrence states here, though he may not know it.. seems like a very greco-roman statement to me... interesting to say the least...Quote:
While writing Women in Love, Lawrence developed a sexual relationship, in the town of Tregerthen, with a Cornish farmer named William Henry Hocking.[citation needed] The affair, though brief, seems to indicate that Lawrence's fascination with themes of homosexuality related to his own sexual orientation. Indeed, in a letter written during 1913, he writes, "I should like to know why nearly every man that approaches greatness tends to homosexuality, whether he admits it or not…" [5] He is also quoted as saying, "I believe the nearest I've come to perfect love was with a young coal-miner when I was about 16."
I think you are right Virgil, Lawrence's understanding of homosexuality is different from modern times, but then so was Whitman's homo-eroticism in "Leaves of Grass" and to a degree Oscar Wilde's homosexuality... It is almost not homosexuality, but a lack of a definite direction either way, kind of a bisexuality maybe... I think they saw it as eroticism, sensuality could be found through either sex... but that doesn't presuppose or necessarily indicate sexuality also... and that is what is shown here... I'm sure Maurice is not gay, though he derives much pleasure from the intimacy here, but he is a sensualist you could say, by this point, having lost his sight, and does not link it to sexuality, just sensuality...
whereas Bertie I find is denying something inside him, (this is in response to your post Quark) and as it is implied women have tried to get intimate with him before and he has pushed them away, but they did not break him, they did not destroy his very identity, and I believe this is because Bertie felt no sexual or sensual appeal for them, it was easy to push them away with little consequence for himself, he was not drawn in to them, was not overpowered by them... but I believe the homosexuality is implied by the very fact that it is a man, Maurice, who Bertie is powerless to avoid intimacy with, of whatever kind, this is sensuality, but if Maurice was interested in taking that sensuality into the realm of sexuality, I don't believe Bertie could have said no... though that is completely beside the point here... Bertie seems so unable to be okay with who he is on an intimate level, but it does take a man to shatter this shell he has sheltering him from the sensual world... and it destroys him, but maybe there is something beyond that, something that would come out later, a new found acceptance of self, and maybe that is implied too, though I don't see it.. I think I see the asexual or neuter type that you mention Quark as a way homosexuality was explained away and hidden at the time... To wrap this up though, I think Virgil hit the nail on the head, when he said that our current notion of homosexuality is quite different from Lawrence's notion of it... I think Lawrence though of it as I said above more as homoeroticism and sensuality that was there to be found in men and women... but in this story Bertie can push it away with women, but though it destroys his identity is powerless against it with men...
Well, I have to say I agree with you,... and hey! what's funner then being laughed at on occasion??? Yep, nothing at all:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Muse
Ok, I don't have much time now - going out; it is a busy week. I apologise for that fact. I wish I could be more active in this discussion. I did read all of your posts. Glad to see so many in here today.
I have read a lot of 'pros and cons', in my biography books on the notion of Lawrence having homosexual encounters. So who really knows? He certainly knew many homosexuals (this is true); but then again who doesn't and especially in the literary field? He had a ton of friends and acquaintances, and he did believe in a 'perfect love' in addition to man/wife love, between a two men. It is hard to exactly interpret, what he meant by that 'perfect union of love'. If you do read "Women in Love", Islandclimber, I think you would get better insight into Lawrence's ideas on this notion/idea, especially in the scene "Gladiatorial", when Birkin(who represents Lawrence) wrestles nude with Gerald before the blazing fireplace. No one can deny that is a very sensual scene and yet it is not sexual, at least the way it is presented to the reader. Therefore, I like very much how you made that distinction with Lawrence, between 'sexual' and 'sensual'; I think that is vitally important to understand; there is a marked difference. I personally do not think Lawrence was a 'closet homosexual', nor a 'bisexual'; this is after absorbing three full biographies. I just don't see it or feel it. What you said seems to describe perfectly, how I feel about Lawrence's attitude towards the whole matter. We discussed this idea extensively in the WIL discussion and came up with the idea of a 'blood brother' or, and - the word evades me now, there is a German word for it (Virgil, help!). This perfect union with a male who would encompass total loyalty/devotion/love/closeness for a lifetime, to the male partner in a 'blood consciousness' manner still does not seem to me to be a homosexual ideal. Touching/physicality/sensuality may be a big part of this, but that is only part of the picture.
I also tend to quote Wikipedia; and then wonder at it's accuracy. In this case, I wonder just who they are quoting. I do know the first set of facts and it seems true enough, about Henry Hocking. I have read much on that time in Lawrence life, but still have not definitively come up with the fact it was a homosexual encounter or relationship. The two broke suddenly, as well and it did not seem like a broken love affair for either of them. In the letters quoted in Wikipedia, I am leary. I only see part of the letter and I don't see what proceeds/follows those words. I don't like it when someone takes the author's words out of context. People have done that to Lawrence before, and been way off the mark and have distorted the truth of what Lawrence actually was saying. This caused him much grief and misunderstandings. Besides, when he was speaking of 'greatness' who is to say he was not talking about other great and 'genius' authors, not referring to himself? Futhermore, I don't know who that coal-miner was he referred to at age 16. At around that age, he was very close to the brother of Jesse (the model for Miriam in S&L). I know they were close and worked in the fields together; but he was not a coal miner, rather a farmer. Lawrence's first published book, "The White Peacock", also explores this close relationship with the model he used for his main male character in that book, also a farmer. This again, would be fashioned partly after Jesse's brother, who indeed Lawrence was very close to when young (probably about that age).Quote:
I found this on wikipedia about Lawrence...
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While writing Women in Love, Lawrence developed a sexual relationship, in the town of Tregerthen, with a Cornish farmer named William Henry Hocking.[citation needed] The affair, though brief, seems to indicate that Lawrence's fascination with themes of homosexuality related to his own sexual orientation. Indeed, in a letter written during 1913, he writes, "I should like to know why nearly every man that approaches greatness tends to homosexuality, whether he admits it or not…" [5] He is also quoted as saying, "I believe the nearest I've come to perfect love was with a young coal-miner when I was about 16."
Again, I don't know how accurate Wiki is either, or who wrote those comments. Anyone can contribute there, just like here. However, just being 'great' does not predispose one to homosexuality. Many a great barrister was heterosexual and not homosexual; so I am not sure what you are saying here. When Lawrence made that statement, if he indeed did, I would think he would be referring to artists and novelists, where homosexuality is quite common and perhaps prevalent.Quote:
I don't know how accurate wikipedia always is but I found this interesting... It seems to fit Bertie though (the greatness part)... Bertie approaching greatness as a barrister tends towards homosexuality as Lawrence states here, though he may not know it.. seems like a very greco-roman statement to me... interesting to say the least...
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I think you are right Virgil, Lawrence's understanding of homosexuality is different from modern times, but then so was Whitman's homo-eroticism in "Leaves of Grass" and to a degree Oscar Wilde's homosexuality... It is almost not homosexuality, but a lack of a definite direction either way, kind of a bisexuality maybe... I think they saw it as eroticism, sensuality could be found through either sex... but that doesn't presuppose or necessarily indicate sexuality also... and that is what is shown here... I'm sure Maurice is not gay, though he derives much pleasure from the intimacy here, but he is a sensualist you could say, by this point, having lost his sight, and does not link it to sexuality, just sensuality...
Yes, I agree, also, with Virgil on most of what he has pointed out in response to your post, but I also like what you stated at the end of this comment of yours - yes, I can see the difference between true homosexuality and 'homoeroticism and sensuality', also - but then again I am not quite sure of the first word. It is a difficult thing to interpret in Lawrence's work.Quote:
whereas Bertie I find is denying something inside him, (this is in response to your post Quark) and as it is implied women have tried to get intimate with him before and he has pushed them away, but they did not break him, they did not destroy his very identity, and I believe this is because Bertie felt no sexual or sensual appeal for them, it was easy to push them away with little consequence for himself, he was not drawn in to them, was not overpowered by them... but I believe the homosexuality is implied by the very fact that it is a man, Maurice, who Bertie is powerless to avoid intimacy with, of whatever kind, this is sensuality, but if Maurice was interested in taking that sensuality into the realm of sexuality, I don't believe Bertie could have said no... though that is completely beside the point here... Bertie seems so unable to be okay with who he is on an intimate level, but it does take a man to shatter this shell he has sheltering him from the sensual world... and it destroys him, but maybe there is something beyond that, something that would come out later, a new found acceptance of self, and maybe that is implied too, though I don't see it.. I think I see the asexual or neuter type that you mention Quark as a way homosexuality was explained away and hidden at the time... To wrap this up though, I think Virgil hit the nail on the head, when he said that our current notion of homosexuality is quite different from Lawrence's notion of it... I think Lawrence though of it as I said above more as homoeroticism and sensuality that was there to be found in men and women... but in this story Bertie can push it away with women, but though it destroys his identity is powerless against it with men...
Dark Muse, I did not laugh at you for suggesting the homosexual aspect initially; I just feel that if Bertie were homosexual, it would not make a much difference to the interpretation of the story. I think the main theme is that Bertie is 'defective', in that he cannot connect with human beings, women or men. I like what Quark pointed out in his post:
Quote by Quark:
I also, considered the same effect at the end - he would maybe give into to contact with Maurice, the man, if Bertie were indeed a 'closet' homosexual and being touched intimately.Quote:
I thought the point with Bertie is that he's incapable of intimacy with women and men. Homosexuality would clash with the characterization of him as a nervous, distant type of person because it would mean that he really does desire relationships--just not in the usual sense. The other characters look at him as asexual or neuter, and this is probably closer to the truth. Besides, if he were gay, he probably would be turned on by that last scene.
Hehe oh I know, I was just messing around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Janine
Yeah, I know - you said you were just kidding.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Muse
Quark you are quite right. I was the one pushing Bertie's apparent homosexuality and I did so by bringing in biographical information, something Janine loves to do. :p But that is unfair ti the story. The story should be somewhat hermetically sealed from the author's bio. There is nothing in the story proper that suggests Bertie is nothing more than asexual as some have said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quark
Except that the women who did not break Bertie did not presumably have this connection with blood consciousness. I read the story as Maurice's special connection, dramatised symbolically by his scarred eyes, with blood consciousness that is the over powering force that destroys Bertie. In the end, I think the homosexuality comes from the person Lawrence based the novel on and the association we make with the knowledge of who this character is based on.Quote:
Originally Posted by islandclimber
Yes, having read a few Lawrence biographies myself (for those that don't know I did my master's thesis on Lawrence) and read much of Lawrence's works I don't think he was homosexual at all. The evidence if he were would be in his letters. He wrote over seven volumes of letters (and those are the ones that were saved and not lost) and he spilled his life in his letters. One can trace his life almost day by day in those letters. And he mentions everything. He surely would have mentioned a homosexual relationship if he had had one. I can't remember the German word either Janine, but I do remember.Quote:
Originally Posted by Janine
Right, but sometimes the biography will reveal true connections to certain aspects of the novels or stories, so obvious it can't be mistaken; however, with this story I have not been able to dig up a shred of evidence to indicate, that indeed, a biographical connection to Bertrum Russell had any bearing on this story. At least this is true in the books/biographies I did look into and even some of the volumes of letters. Now maybe, I will come across a reference eventually, and if I do, I will let everyone know. Had we not known about L's association with a homosexual and his friends, ( and there were many others, as well in his life), then I think we would have simply thought that Bertie just could not 'connect personally/physically' with women. This is one reason I first suggested that the name Bertie was interesting to me because young Bert (as Lawrence was called) did have a problem fully connecting with women, at an early age. However, he did not have problems connecting sexually, or then again did he? His early love affairs were not a great success and that seemed to stem from his mother's hold on him. I refer to his early years such as the woman depicted in "Sons and Lovers." I wondered if, in using this name in this story, it had some kind of symbolic meaning for Lawrence. Of course, there again, I was merely thinking out loud and conjucturing and I am probably way off track.Quote:
Quark you are quite right. I was the one pushing Bertie's apparent homosexuality and I did so by bringing in biographical information, something Janine loves to do. But that is unfair ti the story. The story should be somewhat hermetically sealed from the author's bio. There is nothing in the story proper that suggests Bertie is nothing more than asexual as some have said.
I like the way you put that, Virgil, and referring to it as 'dramatised symbolically', using the image of the scarred eyes or eye-sockets. That certainly was a shockin moment in the story and brought much drama into our minds.Quote:
Except that the women who did not break Bertie did not presumably have this connection with blood consciousness. I read the story as Maurice's special connection, dramatised symbolically by his scarred eyes, with blood consciousness that is the over powering force that destroys Bertie. In the end, I think the homosexuality comes from the person Lawrence based the novel on and the association we make with the knowledge of who this character is based on.
Still not sure who L did truly base this character, Bertie, on. I don't think we have true solid evidence to prove that and until we find it we can't assume it either. Perhaps I should look up Bertrum Russell in some of the books, instead of the title to this story and see if I can come up with something. I think to write this story and actually use the guy's real name might also be a little too direct and obvious if it were true. He often based characters after true life friends, acquaintances but usually the names are much different than those real life people.
I agree with this completely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
The German word is like Blunder-something - or the other....I will try looking in the WIL text for it, when I have the time.
Ok, let's fiannly look at that climax. Here is the text:
I think many observations have already been discussed, like Bertie's anilhiation from the contact and Maurice's growth from it. One thing I want to re-emphasize is how important the sense of touch is. Not only do the two touch each other, but Maurice continues to hold on to Bertie's hand afterward. Touch for Lawrence is an important concept, an exchange of each other's vitality. This would get more fleshed out as a concept in Lady Chatterly. We've mentioned how close this comes to homosexuality, but I think Lawrence considers this male exchange a form of bond between blood brothers. Twice the word "friendship" is used. Remember it was Maurice who had difficulty in forming friendships, but now the power of touch has awakened him to the world of humanity. Notice this sentence: "The new delicate fulfilment of mortal friendship had come as a revelation and surprise to him, something exquisite and unhoped-for." Not just friendship but "mortal friendship." Lawrence is trying to stretch for a higher order concept. And the word "revelation" suggests a religious experience. I am, I must admit, a little baffeled by the next sentence: "He seemed to be listening to hear if it were real." I can understand how Lawrence links it with audible sense (it's beyond consciousness) but why question it's veracity with "if real"? That confuses me. But I think I've concluded my thoughts on ths story. Another outstanding story!Quote:
But he suffered as the blind man stretched out a strong, naked hand to him. Maurice accidentally knocked off Bertie's hat.
'I thought you were taller,' he said, starting. Then he laid his hand on Bertie Reid's head, closing the dome of the skull in a soft, firm grasp, gathering it, as it were; then, shifting his grasp and softly closing again, with a fine, close pressure, till he had covered the skull and the face of the smaller man, tracing the brows, and touching the full, closed eyes, touching the small nose and the nostrils, the rough, short moustache, the mouth, the rather strong chin. The hand of the blind man grasped the shoulder, the arm, the hand of the other man. He seemed to take him, in the soft, travelling grasp.
'You seem young,' he said quietly, at last.
The lawyer stood almost annihilated, unable to answer.
'Your head seems tender, as if you were young,' Maurice repeated. 'So do your hands. Touch my eyes, will you?--touch my scar.'
Now Bertie quivered with revulsion. Yet he was under the power of the blind man, as if hypnotized. He lifted his hand, and laid the fingers on the scar, on the scarred eyes. Maurice suddenly covered them with his own hand, pressed the fingers of the other man upon his disfigured eye-sockets, trembling in every fibre, and rocking slightly, slowly, from side to side. He remained thus for a minute or more, whilst Bertie stood as if in a swoon, unconscious, imprisoned.
Then suddenly Maurice removed the hand of the other man from his brow, and stood holding it in his own.
'Oh, my God' he said, 'we shall know each other now, shan't we? We shall know each other now.'
Bertie could not answer. He gazed mute and terror-struck, overcome by his own weakness. He knew he could not answer. He had an unreasonable fear, lest the other man should suddenly destroy him. Whereas Maurice was actually filled with hot, poignant love, the passion of friendship. Perhaps it was this very passion of friendship which Bertie shrank from most.
'We're all right together now, aren't we?' said Maurice. 'It's all right now, as long as we live, so far as we're concerned?'
'Yes,' said Bertie, trying by any means to escape.
Maurice stood with head lifted, as if listening. The new delicate fulfilment of mortal friendship had come as a revelation and surprise to him, something exquisite and unhoped-for. He seemed to be listening to hear if it were real.
How about we call it homo-sensuality?!?!? since I think a compelling argument has been made that it is not meant to be homosexuality... It keeps reminding me of some of the scenes of homoeroticism in Whitman's "Leaves of Grass".. again an instance of not homosexuality... but a deeper connection than just normal friendship between men, something sensual, and beautiful or so I believe Lawrence and Whitman, respectively want it to appear...
But, Virgil and Janine, you have me convinced that it is not homosexuality that was made implicit here, just a blood conscious as you have said, a homo-sensuality of a sort... I mean, he may have meant it to imply homosexuality, but if he did he left it quite ambiguous, it seems more like the intense connection of conscious you both speak of... great posts.. great story!
Funny you should mention Whitman. Lawrence loved Whitman and modeled much of his poetry on Whitman's.
I agree with the closing remarks; good post, Virgil!
Now I will take my bow for picking such a good story this time. I hope the next one won't disappoint anyone; this story is a hard act to follow. I am currently reviewing L's short stories and even reading a few I had heard were good ones, or have wanted to read. So I am not blank at this point, just investigating. This is to reassure you that I am working behind the scenes to come up with another good story to discuss, that all will connect to and like.
Thumbs up to everyone who participated in this great discussion! How many pages did we fill this time on this one very 'short' story? I believe it was 6 or 7 - that is truly commendable. Keep up the good work, everyone!
Hahaha :lol:islandclimber, I appreciate your creativity in forming the word homo-sensuality....that is a good one!
I definitely am convinced, if Lawrence were standing her right this minute, and we all suggested to him that Bertie was homosexual, he would probably roll his eyes and laugh or make a crazy remark like "no one gets my ideas".:lol:
Yes, so true, Virgil, Lawrence did identify with Whitman and he wrote a commentary paper on Whitman's work. I will have to read it one of these days. My library owns that book or maybe I did purchase it; I lost track of L books here by now...oh me oh my....scatterbrain at this point. That reminds me, Virgil, did you ever locate your lost book?
Yes, it was in my briefcase. I must have looked in there a number of times and not moticed it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Janine
Virgil, I see islandclimber is not the only one making up words here - you 'moticed' it?:lol:Quote:
Yes, it was in my briefcase. I must have looked in there a number of times and not moticed it.
My friend, Carol, said 'when you lose something always go back to the first place you looked and 9 times out of 10 - wala - it will be there!' This is funny, because I have tried it countless times and found it works (well, most of the time, anyway). Glad you found it.
I am mulling over the choices for the next story. I read one longer one last night, but now I don't think I want to suggest that...so back to the old drawing board...I am still undecided, but I did read a number of stories last month so I have a few for candidates. I will post the new story on Monday or Tues....promise.:D
Cannot wait to see what it will be
I wonder about you guys sometimes. Do you type things really fast, or do you not have spell check? I've noticed sometimes when I'm on a different computer computer the red line won't come up when I'm on LitNet. Does that happen often? Usually, though, I get a red line when I write moticed, and then buzzers and sirens go off. While being very annoying, yes, it does let me know that I've mistyped. Does this not happen for you guys?Quote:
Originally Posted by Janine
Make it a good one Janine since we've got two new people joining us. With six people taking part in this one it'll be interesting to see how this goes. Eventually, we may have to break into two Lawrence threads. I foresee a successful, Quark-started offshoot thread. We might run out of stories this way, though. How many did Lawrence write? Do we need to be worried about running out?Quote:
Originally Posted by Janine
You have spell check with lit net? How does that work and how do I get it? I don't have it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quark
See, this is what I thought. You don't get a red line under misspellings? I don't know why some computers get this and other don't, but for whatever reason I'm singularly blessed with spellcheck which has just informed me that spellcheck isn't a word.Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
That would be nice if I had spellcheck in my posts here. I should probably just post in an e-mail or something first, where I do have spell check and than copy and paste here.
No, I feel cheated.:( I have often wondered about 'spell check' on here and thought for sure it would be in the tool bar, at the top of this posting window. I have hunted for it, forever...it is not there to my knowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quark
Once I got this cute little 'widget' - ever have one of those? You can download them free from the net, and I did so - it was a 'spelling bee' and you just entered the word in this tiny little thing, that came up when you were online and it would suggest spellings; even had this cute little bee that swarmed around when it was correct. Only trouble was I got a few more 'widgets' and my computer starting acting wacky and I had to remove them. I really miss that little spelling bee - I thought it was my answer to Lit Net's lack of spell-check. Now if I do copy the text into my 'Word' program, it will authomatically correct the word for me, but then that adds an additional step all the time; so either way, you can't win in the long-run, right Virgil? So we are all not the best spellers in the world, at least we are all brilliant thinkers!;) :( Einstein could not spell either, so there!:D )
Now you must all hear of how ridiculous and lame I have been, all this time I have been on Lit Net. I did not know you could hightlight the text, then click on that one icon above - one that looks like text on a yellow page - and it would add the [quote] format/code at the beginning and the end, automatically. I have been copying and pasting them for years, from other parts of the text....duh, am I computer sauvy or what? I have found this little discovery has really speeded things up.:goof: Better late then never, I suppose. :rolleyes: :nod:
Yes, trying to chose one; so many stories so little time....*sigh, sigh*...hummm.... I know, now that there are more anticipative and anxious people here, I feel this I am being squeezed by pressure 'to pick a good one' :brickwall :cold: . Well, I think they all are good, but I keep trying to pick one that will please all of you. :D The thing is I don't think I can quess, just how you each will respond, to any of the stories. Therefore, this is an nearly impossible task for my feeble mind. I will eventually - just pick one and you can all decide if you like it or not; if you hate it, you all can beat me up!Quote:
Make it a good one Janine since we've got two new people joining us. With six people taking part in this one it'll be interesting to see how this goes. Eventually, we may have to break into two Lawrence threads. I foresee a successful, Quark-started offshoot thread. We might run out of stories this way, though. How many did Lawrence write? Do we need to be worried about running out?
About that spin-off thread, Quark - very funny and the answer is NO!!!! We won't run out of L stories for years and years. He wrote zillions and besides we could always switch to the longer ones, which are sort of novellas. NO, we will never run out, as long as I stay a member of Lit Net! This thread is my 'baby', Virgil's too, I think; was his idea to begin with - he started the thread after we discussed it in a PM. Taking of discussing something I think I will PM him and ask his advice on the stories. He has read quite a few and he may be familiar with the ones I have been reviewing. I asked him last time and he told me "The Blind Man" was a great story. I was favoring that one anyway.
I have in mind one, that is a later story and kind of humorous - yes, our Lawrence did have a keen wit and sense of humor.:D At least I thought this story was funny and even found myself laughing out loud, at times. I will confer first with Virgil, and let you know next week. Also, (biographically) it has some connection to another story we read.
I was a little slow with that too. I was a little afraid of touching the buttons above because I thought it might zap or alter my post in some irrevocably horrible way. A little option-shy, it probably wasn't until my 100th post before I realized I could do that. I still struggle with some things, though: Like indenting. Can anyone indent? I'd like to have actual paragraphs instead of these spaced out blocks of text.Quote:
Originally Posted by Janine
Hey, I've been there. You've done a good job in the past. I think my favorite stories have been "Shadow in the Rose Garden" and "Odour of Chrysanthemums."Quote:
Originally Posted by Janine
Quark, here is another funny thing. I sometimes still have to type the formating code in and I have caught myself doing this in your posts - [quirk]:lol: I guess you could say I got my lines mixed up in my brain-cells! :eek2: Well, it is good to know I have not been the only dummy here.;) I think now, 3 years or more, have passed and I just discovered this shortcut. If in doubt and worrying about losing your post, just copy it to your mouse or paste into your Word program and save, for a few minutes and then try any button above. I think that indend is right below that big bold A - see those lines and arrows - you could try that. It might work, but first make sure you copy off your post, or put it into Word.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quark
Quark,Thanks for that compliment; it does mean so much to me. I just have to live up to my reputation now and pick another winner.....a little scary.....Quote:
Hey, I've been there. You've done a good job in the past. I think my favorite stories have been "Shadow in the Rose Garden" and "Odour of Chrysanthemums."
Funny, you say you liked "Shadow in The Rose Garden' story because Dark Muse really hated that woman, remember? If I pick a story I am thinking of picking she will really go bananas, over this one character - the witchy wife. I would pick "Wintery Peacock", but we are all thinking spring now, and that takes place in the winter months and in snow. I figure we get enough 'gloom and snow' in the Chekhov thread.;); even though WP is a very amusing story and well-written, I will reserve that one for later. The other I have in-mind is "Two Bluebirds" - not about two bluebirds per se, but really quite amusing and entertaining. I just want to throw this idea/suggestion out there, for all of you to see if anyone has read this story before. It is in the last volume of the short stories, so let me check if it is available online, or on this site first. I haven't officially picked this yet, so give me a few more days to make up my mind.
The other story 'Odour of Chrysanthemums' was a great one, although so, so sad...it would appeal to a Chekhov fan:( ;) .....Last night, I watched the early play of Lawrence's - a Kultur series DVD. Kultur reproduces videos of Broadway performances/plays, maybe that aired on TV, and of other art films such as Opera, Orchestra, Ballet, Dance. Anyway, you can find their films on Amazon or on their actual site; cheaper on Amazon. I usually look them up on the Kultur site and then track them down on Amazon.
Here is my impression of the film/play. It was very well acted and intense, AND as I predicted, it is nearly the same story as 'Odour of Chrysanthemums'. In fact, a bowl of C's was always on the table and yet there did not seem to be mentioned in the script. The wife and mother-in-law were true to form and the kids also, but it seemed (since this was an early idea and play for Lawrence) that he had not yet fully developed the ideas, that were evident in the short story - intererting though. I found it so, because he wrote this play very early, I believe, and it was performed when he was young and so this leads me to realise just how far back the seeds of his thoughts went, to the writing of 'Odour of Chrysanthemums'. I will look it up, so I have more solid facts on the play. I maybe wrong and conjecturing all this, but I thought the play was written first; it may have been second. There was one big difference in the play, in that there was presented an additional character - a young man 7 yrs junior to the wife, who had a 'thing' for her; I can't say it was 'love', but he was very much attracted to her. This character reminded me of Lawrence, himself and I think I read that indeed he had a close relationship to an older woman whose husband was a coal miner. He would visit her often and formed a kind of attachment that of course did not go anywhere in the end. I will also look this biographical information up and see if I am correct. I just thought I may have read this before.
In the play the rest followed: the drunken husband, with the addition of two 'tarts' he brings home drunk with him. Otherwise, the characters seemed true to the short story. It is interesting to see Lawrence's work played out on screen.
two bluebirds
Janine here is the story online.. I just read it and quite enjoyed it... it is amusing and very entertaining indeed:D I think pretty much all of Lawrence's stories are on the above site
that play sounds good.. and same with the company kultur.. I may have to look them up:)
also... not for this time(maybe in the future though), but my favourite story of his that I have read so far is "The Witch A La Mode" .. have you discussed it before.. or is there hope for some distant future discussion??? :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by islandclimber
islandclimber, thanks for the link; looks like a good site; I will check it out. Oh, I am so glad you read the story -thanks! I really found it amusing/entertaining, too. I think maybe I will choose this one. It is not too long, either. This should be a fun one to discuss. Also, it has a link to the one of the stories we discussed a few months back "The Man Who Loved Islands"....funny, because it starts out in the same 'fairytale' fashion...."There was a woman who...." It is a biographical link and one you all will find somewhat interesting.Quote:
Janine here is the story online.. I just read it and quite enjoyed it... it is amusing and very entertaining indeed:D I think pretty much all of Lawrence's stories are on the above site
I correct myself. This story is in the Volume 2, not 3, of the 'Complete Short Stories of DHL' . In fact, in my book, it proceeds "Sun", another interesting story we have discussed extensively in this thread.
So sad, islandclimber,that you missed these other fine stories. You might want to read them independently, and I would discuss them with you, or you could read the former posts - both stories had excellent discussions:thumbs_up
Yes, check out the Kultur site online. That is what I did. I think you can have a catalogue send to your house. This is good to browse in; what I do is then check prizes on Amazon. I first became aware of the company (actually based in my state - NJ) when I viewed "Madame Butterfly" on library VHS tape (since then I have bought the DVD). I saw they came from this company and so I looked Kultur up online. By the way, "Madame Butterfly" is excellent starring Richard Troxel and Ying Huang....such a beautiful production. I never was a big opera fan but now I have learned to appreciate it more and more in the past few years. Now I am loving it. I even bought the CD of the ST to the film.Quote:
that play sounds good.. and same with the company kultur.. I may have to look them up:)
The play was very good. I think it best, if you know Lawrence and his background to view it; since obviously, it explored the themes in "Sons and Lovers" - the coal miner coming home drunk from the pit, the wife who seems to be above him in social graces, but who puts up with the husband's abuse, the man who cannot connect with woman on a love basis.
I also liked the production of "Enemy of the People", play by Isben, that was rewritten for screen/stage by Arthur Miller. I just saw that a few nights ago. It was very well done and interesting; way ahead of it's time in theme. I am not sure, but I think that also was a Kultur product.
Actually, I did read that one last month when I was trying to choose. That could be a good posibility. I will consider it for next month. Definitely 'hope' for that one. I must refresh my memory, as to the story. I read so many, they are all beginning to run together....eeek......or I am getting senile.....horrors!Quote:
also... not for this time(maybe in the future though), but my favourite story of his that I have read so far is "The Witch A La Mode" .. have you discussed it before.. or is there hope for some distant future discussion???
Have be off now, I need to go cook dinner for my starving mother and me, as well.
Thanks Climber. Unfortunately it's not all his short stories, but it adds to the ones we have here.Quote:
Originally Posted by islandclimber
Yeah, I feel cheated too. I'll have to ask Logos how we can get spell check. You all should play around with those buttons to get a feel for what they can do. Recently I learned how to subscribe to threads so I can asily find ones I'm definitely interested in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Janine
I've enjoyed all the stories we've read, but I guess my favorite so far that we covered was "The Horse Dealer's Daughter" with "The Blind Man" a close second.Quote:
Originally Posted by Janine
Definetely interested in that film/play. Perhaps Janine if you see a link on the internet you can post it.Quote:
Here is my impression of the film/play. It was very well acted and intense, AND as I predicted, it is nearly the same story as 'Odour of Chrysanthemums'. In fact, a bowl of C's was always on the table and yet there did not seem to be mentioned in the script. The wife and mother-in-law were true to form and the kids also, but it seemed (since this was an early idea and play for Lawrence) that he had not yet fully developed the ideas, that were evident in the short story - intererting though. I found it so, because he wrote this play very early, I believe, and it was performed when he was young and so this leads me to realise just how far back the seeds of his thoughts went, to the writing of 'Odour of Chrysanthemums'. I will look it up, so I have more solid facts on the play. I maybe wrong and conjecturing all this, but I thought the play was written first; it may have been second. There was one big difference in the play, in that there was presented an additional character - a young man 7 yrs junior to the wife, who had a 'thing' for her; I can't say it was 'love', but he was very much attracted to her. This character reminded me of Lawrence, himself and I think I read that indeed he had a close relationship to an older woman whose husband was a coal miner. He would visit her often and formed a kind of attachment that of course did not go anywhere in the end. I will also look this biographical information up and see if I am correct. I just thought I may have read this before.
In the play the rest followed: the drunken husband, with the addition of two 'tarts' he brings home drunk with him. Otherwise, the characters seemed true to the short story. It is interesting to see Lawrence's work played out on screen.
That is a characteristic of Lawrence's late fiction, the starting a story/novella with a abstract character. "The Man Who Loved Islands," The Man Who Died, and my one of my favorite short stories, "The Woman Who Rode Away." I can't wait until we do that story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Janine
"Wintry Peacock" I remember being one of Lawrence's best, and while I can't remember the actual story I do remember liking "The Witch A La Mode." I had to have read "Two Bluebirds" but I don't remember a single thing. That's not the one with the swordfish, is it? I can't remember the one with the swordfish, but it was very good.
I will have to read that one on my own sometime. I do not suppose, it acutally has anything to do with horses?Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
I am a bit of a horse fanatic
Well, the family breeds hoses. Horses are one of those Lawrence motifs that come up frequently. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Muse
:lol: you should could use SPELL CHECK! they breed HOSES????Virgil;) :lol: :lol: Maybe that was a Freudian slip, hose, snake.....?Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
Virgil, the L play I can send to you to borrow, after I watch it again. I think I need to see it when I am more awake than I was last night. You would like the "Kangaroo" tape also but you don't have a VCR do you? You should buy a cheap one of those. The Kultur site is a good one and you just might find other author's plays you would be interested in; but, remember, the price is usually cheaper on Amazon.
That would figure! I think that is because you like the scenes of transfiguration and thigh stroking.....:lol: Sorry, I am feeling kid of giddy tonight. Baby shower is tomorrow; in fact, I should be wrapping the gifts as we speak.Quote:
I've enjoyed all the stories we've read, but I guess my favorite so far that we covered was "The Horse Dealer's Daughter" with "The Blind Man" a close second.
Yeah, Logos! I hope she does tell us how to assess it. I need it badly. I should play 'push the buttons' one of these days - my posts might look more professional if I knew how to use that tool bar better. Yeah, just how do you subscribe to certain threads? I've been wondering that for sometime. I usually just come on and put 'Lawrence' in the search box and it seem to take me to the threads, I most often frequent; but, I am probably missing many many more cool threads.Quote:
Yeah, I feel cheated too. I'll have to ask Logos how we can get spell check. You all should play around with those buttons to get a feel for what they can do. Recently I learned how to subscribe to threads so I can asily find ones I'm definitely interested in.
Yes, I realised that. Also, the more 'fable' type story seems prominent, symbolism being a big factor in those stories. I think you all will like this story "Two Bluebirds". I actually laughed out loud at some of the scenes. We could use a little levity in this thread - don't you think? Especially after the Chekhov discussions. ;)Quote:
That is a characteristic of Lawrence's late fiction, the starting a story/novella with a abstract character. "The Man Who Loved Islands," The Man Who Died, and my one of my favorite short stories, "The Woman Who Rode Away." I can't wait until we do that story.
Yes, the ones you mention here, are also good ones, but longer I believe. Have you read "Jimmy and the Desperate Women" - just curious? I think I read that years ago and want to re-read it sometime.
I read 'Wintry Peacock" twice now, and I liked it even better, second time around. It is also, a very amusing story. Let us keep it on hold, till we approach next fall/winter. Something more 'springlike' is in order for this month. I don't recall a swordfish in "Two Bluebirds", but I may be wrong. I only read it once and it was awhile ago. It is not a very long story, one can read it in an hour or even a half hr.Quote:
"Wintry Peacock" I remember being one of Lawrence's best, and while I can't remember the actual story I do remember liking "The Witch A La Mode." I had to have read "Two Bluebirds" but I don't remember a single thing. That's not the one with the swordfish, is it? I can't remember the one with the swordfish, but it was very good.
do you think anyone could tell me what stories you have read so far, so I can possibly read them, seeing as they are not likely to be read again??
here is one more online site with a lot of Lawrence's work that I could not find anywhere else... almost all his prose work anyways...
Lawrence
I think though if I'm going to stay with this thread I will have to go purchase his complete short stories that I keep hearing mentioned...
Janine I took a look at the kultur website and I am in love with it now.. :D
I already have one of their videos... The best version of the Nutcracker ballet ever.. the one with Mikhail Baryshnikov... it is so so so amazing... He is such an amazing dancer... :D and then there are the broadway plays, and the operas... that is a great company... you said they are cheaper on amazon???
I have a few nonverbal films I am going to purchase in the next little while and then I may be buying some opera... and a few plays as well! If you're interested in nonverbal documentary style films that are just incredibly beautiful and have amazing music, I would recommend checking out this website Baraka:thumbs_up
and I'm going to see Eugene Onegin Wednesday night which should be fun!
Climber!!! I can damn near kiss you for that, if you weren't so masculine. :p That looks like most of Lawrence's work. How did you find that? I do searches for Lawrence's work every so often and I never came across that. I've already added that to my internet favorites. Thanks. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by islandclimber
The stories we read are:
“Things”
“The Horse Dealer’s Daughter”
“Sun”
“The Man Who Loved Islands,”
“A Shadow in the Rose Garden”
"The Blind Man"
Did I miss any Janine?
Yes, unless you don't mind reading off a computer. It comes in three penguin volumes, paperback so their not too expensive.Quote:
I think though if I'm going to stay with this thread I will have to go purchase his complete short stories that I keep hearing mentioned...
No not a Freudian slip, silly. Just poor typing. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Janine
I'll send her a PM. As to subscribing for threads, look at the top of this page at thread tools, pull down the menu, and click subscribe to this thread, and finally acknowledge that you want to subscribe. Then under Quick Links you'll see "Subscribed Threads" and it will pull up all your subscribed threads.Quote:
Yeah, Logos! I hope she does tell us how to assess it. I need it badly. I should play 'push the buttons' one of these days - my posts might look more professional if I knew how to use that tool bar better. Yeah, just how do you subscribe to certain threads? I've been wondering that for sometime. I usually just come on and put 'Lawrence' in the search box and it seem to take me to the threads, I most often frequent; but, I am probably missing many many more cool threads.
The word I was searching for and I couldn't come up with before was architypical. It came to me earlier. Lawrence was after a certain architypical characterization, if you know what i mean, in his later years.Quote:
Yes, I realised that. Also, the more 'fable' type story seems prominent, symbolism being a big factor in those stories.
Looking forward to Bluebirds. I think I may have read "Jimmy" but frankly many of them are a blurr to me at this point.Quote:
I think you all will like this story "Two Bluebirds". I actually laughed out loud at some of the scenes. We could use a little levity in this thread - don't you think? Especially after the Chekhov discussions. ;)
Yes, the ones you mention here, are also good ones, but longer I believe. Have you read "Jimmy and the Desperate Women" - just curious? I think I read that years ago and want to re-read it sometime.
This is so odd. I ran to get my book and half of what I had just written, in this post disappeared. Hummm...I can't figure out why. Ok, I will have to begin again....*groan...sigh*Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
Virgil, I will answer your post first, since you have seniority (not in age but in number of posts on this thread). Ok, first off you did miss some and they were really important ones. Here are the ones I recall:
"The Prussian Officer"
"Odour of Chrysanthemums"
"The White Stocking"
"The Shades of Spring"
How you missed those first two are beyond me. You loved the first one, I know, and the second I thought you liked very much. I just checked the complete list in the first volume of the "Complete Short Stories". I don't think I missed any, do you? That would make 10 altogether; and I assure you all - there are plenty more to come.
I see some more that I have read recently and reviewed and may be good possibilities for the future.
Thanks Janine, you are correct. I don't know how i missed them. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Janine
Thanks for the tip, Virgil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
10 stories, I counted so far - see my and Virgil's lists. I can tell you they all are great! So are the discussions!:thumbs_up Enjoy your reading.:) I so appreciate that you care enough to go back and read and review these stories. You will not regret it.Quote:
Originally Posted by islandclimber
I feel badly about only one discussion; the first one. The thread had not been up long, so we did not talk a lot about one of my favorites: "Things". If you read, it let me know what you think. I love the irony in this story.
LawrenceQuote:
here is one more online site with a lot of Lawrence's work that I could not find anywhere else... almost all his prose work anyways...
Fantastic - yeah, how did you find this site??? I must send you the link to a site about Lawrence at Nottingham University - there is a whole online exhibit there that is marvelous. I hope it is still there; pictures, places he lived, writings, poems, even photos of original manuscripts in L's handwriting. I just love to explore that site.
islandclimber, I will go on Amazon and try and research this for you. If I find any good deals I will email you right away and first I will put them into a file so we can find them easily again. I bought used books; pretty much that is what you have to do. These are out of print now. That is the problem with L's books. I saw one of his post death going for as much as 2000 bucks...ridiculous! But on a cheerier note I found these two books (I had Volume Three already) quite reasonable. I am good at finding them on Amazon.Quote:
I think though if I'm going to stay with this thread I will have to go purchase his complete short stories that I keep hearing mentioned...
It's amazing, isn't it? Really rare stuff there. I think they send me a catalogue and then I looked it up online. I have purchased a number of the Kultur videos now and my library has gotten so many from time to time - they have a 'circulating' collection which goes to different libraries monthly; this is in addition to their own huge collection. I am truly blessed. I saw "Carmen" with Placido Domingo and that may have been another Kultur videos. It was great!Quote:
Janine I took a look at the kultur website and I am in love with it now.. :D
I have that on a home recorded VHS tape. I just may invest soon in the DVD. I do want it badly - may be nice for next Christmas. I adore Mikhail Baryshnikov. I recently bought several films he is featured in. "White Nights" is one; Gegory Hinds is great, too....they dance together and it is amazing. Ever see the film? Worth it for the dancing alone. I saw another film from the library a few weeks back - his version of "Don Quixote" - the man is so amazing, he outshown all the others. I also saw some short ones he does on one video but now the name eludes me. I saw his one to Sinatra music and that was interesting. The man is so versatile; he could do anything. I also love Nureveyv(sp?); I own one film with him and Fountaine. You are speaking my language now. I draw ballet dancers in ink and pencil.Quote:
I already have one of their videos... The best version of the Nutcracker ballet ever.. the one with Mikhail Baryshnikov... it is so so so amazing... He is such an amazing dancer... :D
The ones I have looked for, I have found cheaper on Amazon. I usually buy from the independent seller under the link to "new and used"...I try to find someone with over 98, 99% positive (100% best) and mostly get the factory sealed ones, but have bought some 'used - like new'; depends on the price. An incredible ballet CD I just bought, had just become available on DVD, is 'Lady of the Camillias". The dancing is so sensual. I am now reading the Dumas book, and am nearly done it. One the Kultur site check out Tosca with Roberto Alagna and his real life wife, Angela Gheorghiu....it is amazing. I love Roberto Alagna and have three of his DVD films. I have his "Cerano(sp?) d 'Bergerac" and his "Romeo and Juliet". I love them all.Quote:
and then there are the broadway plays, and the operas... that is a great company... you said they are cheaper on amazon???
I will check that out. I like that sort of thing very much. I have "Tim Janis' Coastal America". I bought it mainly since they show tons of photos of the West coastline and those sea-stakes in WA; and Rialto beach.Quote:
I have a few nonverbal films I am going to purchase in the next little while and then I may be buying some opera... and a few plays as well! If you're interested in nonverbal documentary style films that are just incredibly beautiful and have amazing music, I would recommend checking out this website Baraka:thumbs_u
I don't know who that is but it sounds great to me. I love live orchestra and live choral productions and of course, live ballet!Quote:
and I'm going to see Eugene Onegin Wednesday night which should be fun!
Just wanted to add this: I just looked up your site 'Baraka' and I love it. I have seen some of those - I saw "Winged Migration" - love it, love it, love it!!!! I liked the extra features as well. Same with "March of the Penquins" - the features are a whole new film! I also put some into my wish list - that one called "Chrono" - something like that, sounds interesting. I also recently saw "Deep Blue" and I bought the soundtrack. Marvelous film - amazing footage!
I love adventure stories too; like I am especially enamoured with the Ernest Shackleton story in the Antarctic and read three books on it, own the miniseries, own some books and other films on the story, collect stuff from online.
Thanks Virgil and Janiniefor posting a list of the stories that have already been discussed, now I know what to look for to read on my own.
Really funny how you snuck another post in there when I was not looking. Then I went to answer islandclimber and finally got back to you. I am getting worn out! We sure do have a lively group and much enthusiasm this month. I am so pleased!
Early senility???:lol:....or a simple case of brain overload; I suffer from that one.Quote:
Thanks Janine, you are correct. I don't know how i missed them.
:lol: I knew that - just kidding with you!Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil
Oh good, I think that Logos will respond and help us. Maybe we just need to set something differently to acquire spell-check. That is such a great tip, Virgil....you know I have been meaning to ask you about that for sometime. I seem to always forget so I am delighted it came up here today. I will try it and then when you go to pull them up (your thread list) - how do you go about it? Thanks for instructing all of us.Quote:
I'll send her a PM. As to subscribing for threads, look at the top of this page at thread tools, pull down the menu, and click subscribe to this thread, and finally acknowledge that you want to subscribe. Then under Quick Links you'll see "Subscribed Threads" and it will pull up all your subscribed threads.
Good word! What exactly does it mean - have you a definition? Is that spelled right? I thought it would be 'archetypical'.Quote:
The word I was searching for and I couldn't come up with before was architypical. It came to me earlier. Lawrence was after a certain architypical characterization, if you know what i mean, in his later years.
Tell me about it.:( I read those several new stories about a month ago and I could not hardly recall what they were about....let alone ones from years ago - mine a blur, too. I had to go back and review some that I just read. I did however, recall "Two Blue Birds" vividly....so that must say something about the story, right?Quote:
Looking forward to Bluebirds. I think I may have read "Jimmy" but frankly many of them are a blurr to me at this point.
Dark Muse, you are welcome.
wow, this is a fun thread... you go away for a few hours and there are half a dozen posts to respond to when you get back! I love it:D
starting with Virgil... yep I don't know about the whole kissing thing here... maybe just a russian greeting type of kiss :lol: :lol: (masculine! pardonnez moi!!! who would have thought it...:lol: )
I found that site on wikipedia of all places... at the bottom where they have the links to external sites.. there were three to places with Lawrence's works... and the other two didn't have that many... so I tried the Australian one, and wow, there was almost everything.. the aussies must love Lawrence too!! Strangely when I was searching for Lawrence on google, I found a site with everything Thomas Hardy has ever written in Ebooks.. I guess in the 20s there was a 37 volume compendium of Hardy's work put out, and it is all on there!!:D I love Hardy too, so an added bonus of searching for Lawrence...
I was looking for the collection at amazon, and they appear to have many copies, but only on the US website of amazon, and sometimes the little associated dealers, don't ship to Canada, but Janine let me know if you find something for me... I don't mind reading on the computer screen, just as long as it is not too often.. it makes my sight go all hazy...
Thank you both so much for the list of what you have already read... I am looking forward to beginning on it tonight... see what kind of indent I can make!!
Janine I will send a pm of my thoughts on "Things" when I finish...
I love ballet as well... I've only been to see a few... umm... The Nutcracker several times, Swan Lake, Giselle, Carmen, Scherazade... but I do quite enjoy it.. so having some dvds would be great... Nureyev is amazing, and a film with him and Fountaine would be special.. which one do you have? I know they were in a few together... oh and if you ever scan any of those drawings... I would love to see...:)
Eugene Onegin is Tchaikovsky's opera masterpiece, based on Pushkin's poem... I have a cd of the music, and I absolutely love it.. it is so amazing, and quite tragic... I can't wait to see it live.. and then later in april I'm seeing the Mozart opera "Idomeneo"...
Everyone here should really try to check out the film Baraka.. It is quite amazing!!! Maybe the best film I have ever seen, the most powerful anyways... it is spectacular.. I know you can get it at amazon for not to bad a price I think... But I really really recommend it.. it is beautiful!:)
so we have decided on "Bluebird" ??? I am looking forward to the discussion!
Oh yeah, DarkMuse if you want to discuss any of the stories you missed as well, just say... I'd be happy to...
yep that is how you spell it Janine... it is interchangable with the word "archetypal" too... which is a more common spelling now I think, I had never seen it the way spelled above before Virgil posted, so I had to look it up, and it appears "archetypical" and "archetypal" mean the same thing, and both are just adjectival forms of the noun "archetype"!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Janine
Thanks for looking that up. Now it makes more sense to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by islandclimber
Yes, is this the most popular site on Lit Net? I do the same and then check back and wow, more posts to answer. Unfortunately, I really do have to head for bed now. I have to get up early tomorrow. I want badly to answer more of your post but it will have to wait till probably tomorrow night or even Monday. Anyway, I wanted now to thank you for that Lawrence site. I was able to copy of the play, I watched last night, onto my hard-drive. If I reduce the type, I can get it down to about 50 pages, maybe less. I really want to print it out, but that is a lot. I still might go for it, on fast draft printing. Last night I kept thinking I wished I had read the play first. Wow, what a bonus! Now I am hunting for "The Boy in the Bush" - most others of the novels listed in that site, I have read - all I think. Australian's loves Lawrence because he wrote two books there "Boy in the Bush" and "Kangaroo" - my movie of "Kangaroo" came from Australia, via the USA on Amazon! I would like to find "The Boy in the Bush" film starring a very young Kenneth Branagh. So far it eludes me.
I have been researching for books for you. I was afraid mailing to Canada might be a problem...drat it! We will work something out for you. Some sellers must ship to Canada. We have to investigate that a little closer.
So 'Baraka' is the best one. I will put that into my wishlist.
Yes, the story will be "Two Blue Birds", but on Monday I will make up an offical announcement page, and a brief introduction and maybe add an illustration or photo to enhance it.
See you later and have fun reading those short stories!