The Visual Arts: Exploring the History of "Fine Art" and Beyond

...totally insipid paintings, of no significance...

Of course the same can be said of the vast majority of the Modern/Post-Modern/Conceptual crap churned out by art school grads.

I should say a few of them are OK, the ones that tend to be more concerned with abstraction rather than banal literary content.

I'm a little wary of any sweeping dismissal of art based upon terms such as "literary" or "narrative". When I attended art school Greenbergian formalism was still the dominant theory and "literary", "narrative" and "illustrative" were virtually the worst insults that could be directed at your work. The result was that not only were works of unrepentant kitsch (such as Thomas Kinkade) vilified... but also artists of real merit: Andrew Wyeth, Lucian Freud, Odd Nerdrum... even the whole of Pop Art. I think the pendulum has begun to swing the other direction... at least toward a recognition that there is no great single monolithic "art world" but rather a great many smaller "art worlds" with different audiences, values, and standards.

Having said that... I agree that Parkes' work is largely kitsch... although very skillful kitsch.

Now... if I were to offer up some art works as Christmas gifts I think I would include the following:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/.../th_giorg2.jpg

Giorgione's (Bellini's) Adoration of the Shepherds is one of the most exquisite paintings ever. I never fail to spend a good many minutes before it whenever I visit Washington. The composition is almost Baroque... brilliantly structured... yet in such an organic... natural manner (not unlike Titian and later Rubens) that one might almost imagine it just fell together. The figures are equally natural and real. The landscape is one of the most marvelous... especially from this early period when nature and the landscape were not idealized as they were to the Romantics. And then the color! The painting glows... like stained glass.

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...th_8madonn.jpg

Fra Filippo Lippi is one of those painters who should be far more known. His Holy Family is simply a brilliant little painting. Like his masterful student, Sandro Botticelli, Lippi employs the linear elements to such an elegant use. Line simply weaves and dances throughout this painting. I love the many little exquisite details: the manner in which the Virgin breaks from the painted frame (an idea Michelangelo will later put to a far more forceful and expressive use) and the clever framing of the second angel who looks out at us from between the arms and legs of the Christ child and the praying hands of the Virgin.

Another marvelous painting appropriate to the holiday was produced by the combined efforts of Fra Angelico and Fra Filippo Lippi. The Adoration of the Magi (tondo)...

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...th_05adora.jpg

is another of favorite paintings in the National Gallery, Washington. The composition of this painting brilliantly leads our eyes around the painting... from the farthest distances... as the crowds rush to view the spectacle. In the distance (on the left) we see collapsing white architecture and figures in robes symbolizing the collapse of the old Greco-Roman Pagan world. Hovering over the Virgin on the roof of the humble stable is a peacock... symbol of the Queen of Heaven. This painting always reminds me of another favorite "Adoration":

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...ondesmages.jpg

Gentile da Fabriano's Adoration of the Magi is one of the most resplendent paintings of the period and the style that became known as the "International Gothic". As a result of the horrors of the "Black Death" there was a shift toward a greater conservatism which reached its peak with Girolamo Savonarola and the "bonfire of the vanities". The International Gothic was epitomized by a shift away from Renaissance innovations in terms of "realism" and classicism, back toward an art rooted in the Gothic with an emphasis upon decorative pattern and such artificial elements as the shaped panel and a radiant use of gold leaf. Elements of the International Gothic continued through the work of Botticelli, who became a follower of Savonarola. Ironically, the paintings of the International Gothic are far more lavish and luxurious... far more expressive of vanity... than the more "modern" Renaissance paintings.

Gentile da Fabriano's Adoration of the Magi again portrays crowds coming to witness the miracle from afar. In this instance, the scene takes place at night with the figures literally glowing by the light of the halos and the Star of Bethlehem (immediately above Joseph's head). This glowing effect is further heightened as a result of the contrast with the warm and sumptuous gold framing.

Perhaps the greatest painting of the International Gothic, after Duccio's Maestà (which was really a collection of multiple paintings), was Simone Martini's Annunciation...

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...nunciation.jpg

The painting portrays the Angel of the Annunciation, Gabriel, as he informs Mary that she has become the chosen one... mother of God. Mary recoils and clutches her cloak as the angel's words etched into the gold leaf ("Ave Maria, gratia plena, dominus tecum...") move toward her. The central narrative is flanked by two saints: Ansanus, the patron saint of Sienna, and St. Giulitta. Sienna was heart of the International Gothic style.

The last painting I'll offer up for the holidays is a single illuminated page from the Limbourg Brothers' Très riches heures du Duc de Berry... one of the finest illuminated books ever produced... literally an equivalent of the Sistine Ceiling in book form.

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...fc3a9vrier.jpg

This particular is from a series of plates illustrating the months. In this case we are presented with the Month of February. The Limbourg Brothers were active in France and Burgundy at around the same period as Simone Martini and Gentile da Fabriano. The Très riches heures du Duc de Berry dates from the early 1400s and like the nearly contemporaneous writer, Chaucer, the Limbourg Brothers were masters at portraying all the details of the late Medieval/early Renaissance world. We are presented with an image of a farmer chopping down trees for firewood... and a farmer and his wife and a visiting lady of some rank gathered the fireplace in the farmhouse. Note how the lady daintily raises her skirts... but only so far... to warm her legs... while the farmer and his wife have no such thoughts of modestly as they hike their clothes up in an effort to warm their... "cockles".

Happy Holidays!

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Originally Posted by stlukesguild

I'm a little wary of any sweeping dismissal of art based upon terms such as "literary" or "narrative". When I attended art school Greenbergian formalism was still the dominant theory and "literary", "narrative" and "illustrative" were virtually the worst insults that could be directed at your work. The result was that not only were works of unrepentant kitsch (such as Thomas Kinkade) vilified... but also artists of real merit: Andrew Wyeth, Lucian Freud, Odd Nerdrum... even the whole of Pop Art. I think the pendulum has begun to swing the other direction... at least toward a recognition that there is no great single monolithic "art world" but rather a great many smaller "art worlds" with different audiences, values, and standards.

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I couldn't agree more.

This was the point that I made earlier about how the Abstract Expressionists had founded their own Church of Art, in which all figurative and literary elements were to be ruthlessly expunged on pain of excommunication. Thankfully all that has gone by, just as have the the strictures of a century before the abstract expressionists, when it was claimed that all art must be done in an insipid classicist figurative style. Those strictures were exploded by the arrival of the Impressionists and especially by the arrival of Van Gogh and Cezanne. The latter prefigured the great Picasso.

I wasn't making a sweeping dismissal of all art that is based on "literary" or "narrative" terms, just the particular art that ftil was putting forth.

There is, was, and always will be, some wonderful figurative, literary, realistic art. Some of it is currently on display in Washington, D.C., paintings and photos of the Civil War/Reconstruction era, including some real beauties by the great Winslow Homer. Highly recommended!

Keep up the good work, sir! :)

Ah, you mentioned Lucian Freud. What a wonderful artist!

Check out the online studio of Clifford Wilton, with whom years ago I was once honored to share art studio space.

http://www.cliffordwilton.com/Artist...&Akey=7T557WEJ

Quote:

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Originally posted by stlukesguild
Having said that... I agree that Parkes' work is largely kitsch... although very skillful kitsch.

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Of course, it is kitsch even though very skilful kitsch. But it was not the reason that I posted it.
His work is full of occult symbolism and from that point of view…..interesting.

If I were to choose some art works as Christmas gifts it would include the following:



Rembrandt, Aristotle contemplating a bust of Homer

http://www.artchive.com/artchive/R/r...stotl.jpg.html



Salvator Rosa, Diogenes Casting away his Cup

http://baroqueart.tumblr.com/post/32...-salvator-rosa



Raffaello Sanzi, Woman with a Veil (La Donna Velata)

http://www.china-art-discount.com/Ar...3/03velata.jpg



Jean-Baptiste-Simeon Chardin, Basket of Peaches

http://www.jean-baptiste-simeon-char...768-large.html



Willem Claesz Heda, Still Life

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...-_WGA11244.jpg



And especially for St. Luke. :wink5:


Tamara de Lempicka, Women Bathing

http://www.tamara-de-lempicka.org/Wo...929-large.html


Jean Auguste Dominique Ingres, La Grande Odalisque

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Je...sque,_1814.jpg



John Maler Collier, Lilith

http://www.john-collier.org/Lilith,-1887-large.html


Andrew Atroshenko

http://pinterest.com/pin/254383078923061722/

The Rembrandt...

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...otle-homer.jpg

The Raphael (Raffaello Sanzio da Urbino)...

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...03velata-1.jpg

and the Ingres...

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...h_05ingres.jpg

... are all especially fine paintings... although I don't see that they have much connection with the Holidays or the Season. Of all the paintings you offered, I think the Raphael would be my personal favorite. Andrew Atroshenko's paintings, on the other hand, are just pure schlock.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stlukesguild

... are all especially fine paintings... although I don't see that they have much connection with the Holidays or the Season. Of all the paintings you offered, I think the Raphael would be my personal favorite. Andrew Atroshenko's paintings, on the other hand, are just pure schlock.

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No, they don’t have connections. If you received a red convertible for a Christmas gift, would you complain that it has nothing to do with the Holiday Season? :lol:

You may call Atroshenko's paintings “pure schlock”. I like this painting as I appreciate beauty. She is very different than that of Egon Schiele that I can’t stand.

I thought I'd offer up a few more works of art appropriate for the season:

Bruegel's Hunters in the Snow is one of the paintings from his series known as the "Seasons" (perhaps originally 12 paintings... one for each month)...

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...th_hunters.jpg

One might almost proclaim Bruegel to have been the first great landscape painter. I can think of no one else at this early age with as astute of an eye for capturing details of the landscape... the color... the atmosphere... the sense of space... We can almost sense the noise and excitement of the dogs barking as they enter from the left silhouetted against the snow, along with their masters, the hunters. The dark greenish-gray sky is mirrored in the frozen ponds below where tiny people skate upon the ice. The trees... silhouetted against the snow and sky... lead our eye... like four great notes in a symphony... toward the distant recesses of space... in an era before the Netherlandish painters have mastered the technique of linear perspective.

Gerard David was one of the lesser known painters of the Netherlandish Renaissance... but a painter of some truly exquisite works... including The Holy Family: Rest on the Flight into Egypt:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...t_to_egypt.jpg

This painting has an almost classical sense of simplicity and clarity of form and an almost Impressionistic sensitivity to touch and brush-work. The painting is organized upon a harmony of primary colors: limpid blues, golden and greenish yellows, and a few perfectly placed accents of rose. In spite of the simplicity of the painting, there are the most delicious details: the delicately rendered basket, the flora in the foreground, the bunch of grapes the Virgin feeds to her child, and Joseph in the distance engaged in an effort to gather nuts from the trees.

Perhaps an even less-known painting of the Netherlandish Renaissance is Geetgen Tot Sint Jans. Sint Jans was a painter from the Northern regions of what were the Netherlands... that area which would later become Holland. A vast majority of the paintings from this area and era were lost as a result of the iconoclastic upheavals including burning and looting of Catholic churches that resulted in response to the brutal anti-Protestant crackdown by the Duke of Alba and the Spanish against the predominantly Protestant states of the Western Netherlands. Geertgen Tot Sint Jans is known for but a scant few paintings... but they are absolute jewels. One of the most marvelous is surely the Nativity or Adoration of the Shepherds:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...o/th_mm835.jpg

Sint Jans offers one of the first truly believable night-time Nativity scenes. The Virgin and the delicious tiny doll-like angels are illuminated by the glow emanating from the little Christ-child. Looming in the shadows we see the cattle, Joseph... and in the distance, the tiny angel Gabriel announcing the miraculous birth to the shepherds. The entire scene has a magical, child-like wonder to it that I find utterly charming and irresistible.

Its quite easy to find paintings appropriate to the Christmas season by the "old masters"... but what of "modern artists"?... what of art from the late 19th century to the present? This has proved a bit more of a challenge. Sure, there are plenty of schlock paintings that are little more than pastiches of dated styles... but what of paintings of real merit? I dug around a bit and found a number of interesting works which I shall post tomorrow.

:seeya:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stlukesguild

Its quite easy to find paintings appropriate to the Christmas season by the "old masters"... but what of "modern artists"?... what of art from the late 19th century to the present? This has proved a bit more of a challenge. Sure, there are plenty of schlock paintings that are little more than pastiches of dated styles... but what of paintings of real merit? I dug around a bit and found a number of interesting works which I shall post tomorrow.

:seeya:

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We can't forget about Edward Burne-Jones's intriguing painting. Dark angel or just light-bearer? :lol:


Sir Edward Burne-Jones, The Star of Bethlehem

http://www.pre-raphaelite-brotherhoo...-91-large.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stlukesguild

I'm not disagreeing with a whole century of artists, but rather suggesting that your own interpretation is a tad muddled.

As it seems that you find my appreciation of Anselm Kiefer to be one example of such "muddled" thinking, how much have you actually looked at Kiefer? How many paintings or sculptures by him have you seen in person? I know, you assume that is irrelevant, but it really isn't. It's hard to gain a grasp of a 20 or 30 foot wide painting from a 4 inch image on the computer screen. In spite of the fact that you would have us believe that Kiefer is an example of "bad" and "esoteric" art, his work is admired by a broad range of curators, art historians, and art critics... including a number that might be deemed "conservative" in their opinions: Robert Hughes, Donald Kuspit, and Hilton Kramer among them. One might also consider the fact that Kiefer demands some of the highest prices per painting or sculpture of any living artist... in spite of the fact that he is largely unknown to the general public, lacking the shock value that makes Damien Hirst, Tracey Emin, or Jeff Koons overpriced art stars.

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You know, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a radical paradigm shift coming in the art world that would devalue much of the art of the last sixty or seventy years.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mortalterror

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a radical paradigm shift coming in the art world that would devalue much of the art of the last sixty or seventy years.

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There is no reason to think this. Quite the opposite is likely to be the case. With the increasing use of computers in the visual arts, and the possibility of, say, combining video animation with paint on canvas, the visual arts will become more free, radial and creative than ever.

The problem in rejecting modernism I think lies in lack of visual education. Many people are stuck with the idea that pictures must be of something in reality, and must be done as realistically as possible. Visual art certainly can be that, but the point is it does not have to be that. The hold of realism and story-telling on the visual arts began to vanish with the introduction of photography, and it's not coming back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ftil

We can't forget about Edward Burne-Jones's intriguing painting. Dark angel or just light-bearer? :lol:


Sir Edward Burne-Jones, The Star of Bethlehem

http://www.pre-raphaelite-brotherhoo...-91-large.html

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Ah, yes, the reactionary pre-Raphaelites.

In some ways I think the ideas of the Pre-Raphaelites and their subsequent influence far outstripped the actual achievements of their work... although the Kelscott Chaucer was surely a brilliant example of "book arts". The idea of rejecting the art of the recent past (academic realism) and looking toward the art before Raphael... the art of the Middle Ages... is surely linked with directions taken by painters such as Gauguin, Van Gogh, Bonnard, Vuillard etc... who began to explore the notion of flat decorative images and the use of artificial patterns and forms as opposed to the illusion of realistic for. The Pre-Raphaelites also provided a link between William Blake and the Arts and Crafts movement (which was itself linked with Art Nouveau, Art Deco, and the Bauhaus). All sought to challenge the notion of the hierarchy of art: placing painting and sculpture above "decorative arts"... and all suggested that there was a certain moral value in art and beauty that was of the greatest worth to a mankind trapped within the increasingly ugly and massed produced/industrial culture.

I also think we need to acknowledge that the Pre-Raphaelites were one element in the growing admiration of the Medieval (other examples would include poetry of Browning and Tennyson, Wagner's operas, etc...). I see a definite impact upon subsequent illustration... especially that of science fiction and the fantastic.

Unfortunately, for the most part the Pre-Raphaelites weren't the most brilliant painters and they were indeed quite reactionary... or rather quite mannered. While Gauguin and the Nabis all drew heavily from rather archaic sources, they also brought something quite Modern in terms of both imagery and their sensual love of paint.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cioran

There is no reason to think this. Quite the opposite is likely to be the case. With the increasing use of computers in the visual arts, and the possibility of, say, combining video animation with paint on canvas, the visual arts will become more free, radial and creative than ever.

The problem in rejecting modernism I think lies in lack of visual education. Many people are stuck with the idea that pictures must be of something in reality, and must be done as realistically as possible. Visual art certainly can be that, but the point is it does not have to be that. The hold of realism and story-telling on the visual arts began to vanish with the introduction of photography, and it's not coming back.

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No reason to think that? How about because it's happened numerous times before? The shift from Greco-Roman styles to the Gothic medieval styles lasted for centuries. Then for centuries the medieval art was considered primitive, amateurish, and ugly, until being once more re-evaluated. Neo-classicism held sway for more than a century, and many of the major artists of the period are now no more than footnotes. The history of art criticism is one of constant re-evaluation and revision with the experts teeter tottering one way then another.

Do I dare
Disturb the universe?
In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse.
-The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock, T.S. Eliot

Quote:

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Originally posted by stlukesguild
Unfortunately, for the most part the Pre-Raphaelites weren't the most brilliant painters and they were indeed quite reactionary... or rather quite mannered. While Gauguin and the Nabis all drew heavily from rather archaic sources, they also brought something quite Modern in terms of both imagery and their sensual love of paint.

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I don’t have any idea why you said that Pre-Raphaelites were quite reactionary. If we look at themes, we may see themes from Greek/Roman mythology . Evelyn de Morgan was involved in occult and her art is quite intriguing.

I would rather say that they were precursors of modern art and return to pagan religion. You compared Zeus to Jehovah and Jesus to Apollo which is absolutely outrages for those who studied Greek/Roman mythology.

I am curious what modern art you have found that relates to Holiday seasons. I have found overwhelming modern art relating to mythology and demons.

A few paintings.

HUGUES GILLET

http://www.artofimagination.org/Page...etDetail1.html


HUGUES GILLET

http://fer1972.tumblr.com/post/19958.../hugues-gillet


Drazenka Kimpel

http://picky.cgsociety.org/gallery/857550/


Drazenka Kimpel

http://elfpix.com/graphics/artworks-...ka-kimpel.html



H. R. Giger

http://artmight.com/Artists/H.R.Gige...m-183283p.html

Demons art

http://art-of-fantasy.org/pics/imagelist/16/9

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mortalterror

No reason to think that? How about because it's happened numerous times before? The shift from Greco-Roman styles to the Gothic medieval styles lasted for centuries. Then for centuries the medieval art was considered primitive, amateurish, and ugly, until being once more re-evaluated. Neo-classicism held sway for more than a century, and many of the major artists of the period are now no more than footnotes. The history of art criticism is one of constant re-evaluation and revision with the experts teeter tottering one way then another.

Do I dare
Disturb the universe?
In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse.
-The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock, T.S. Eliot

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It has happened before, but what is different now is that art is accpeted as pluralistic. This is one of the legacies of post-modernism. Over-arching meta-narratives in the visual arts, as well as literature and other fields, are rejected. There are so many influences, so much cross-fertilization in art, that it seems highly unlikely that entire canons of art will be rejected in favor of a new Art Church, the kind of thing that happened with abstract expressionism (banish all figuratism as heretical) and before that earlier schools of art that banished all hints of what would become modernism.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cioran

It has happened before, but what is different now is that art is accpeted as pluralistic. This is one of the legacies of post-modernism. Over-arching meta-narratives in the visual arts, as well as literature and other fields, are rejected. There are so many influences, so much cross-fertilization in art, that it seems highly unlikely that entire canons of art will be rejected in favor of a new Art Church, the kind of thing that happened with abstract expressionism (banish all figuratism as heretical) and before that earlier schools of art that banished all hints of what would become modernism.

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And maybe we'll all join hands and sing Kumbaya. No, the pendulum is already in motion, and change is afoot. It's one thing to describe the art world in terms of a plurality, and to a certain extent that's even true, but it is still not a unified or equal plurality. There will always be greater and lesser trends, even if they continue to tolerate each other.

Its quite easy to find paintings appropriate to the Christmas season by the "old masters"... but what of "modern artists"?... what of art from the late 19th century to the present? This has proved a bit more of a challenge. Sure, there are plenty of schlock paintings that are little more than pastiches of dated styles... but what of paintings of real merit? I dug around a bit through my files and initially I was a bit shocked at just how little I was able to find. I almost felt as if after nearly 2000 years in which the Biblical narratives lay at the heart of Western art, artists had suddenly abandoned these great tales. But as a looked more carefully, I realized that this wasn't so. While paintings relating to Christmas were few and far between, the great Hebrew and Christian narratives continued to flourish in Modern Art. Considering that the history of the 20th century offered up two world wars, the Holocaust, the genocides of Stalin and Mao, and the threat of nuclear annihilation, it is perhaps not surprising that artists leaned more toward the tales of Job, Moses, Abraham, the Exodus, and of course the Passion and Crucifixion as more relevant narratives for our time.

Nevertheless... I was able to find more than a few "modern" paintings appropriate to the season:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...nunciation.jpg

Henry Ossawa Tanner (1859-1937) was the first African-American artist to gain an international reputation. Thwarted and disillusioned by racism in America, he spent much of his career living and working in France. Tanner became best known for his religious paintings, including the splendid Annunciation. Like many of his paintings, the Annunciation presents a contrast between realism and a theatrical and an atmospheric and poetic use of light. There's nothing idealized in the representation of the Virgin Mary, her clothes, and the setting. The Angel of the Annunciation, however, is seen as a brilliant and all-devouring light... not unlike that employed by J.M.W. Turner.

In contrast to Tanner, the French painter, Maurice Denis, offers an Annunciation that is far removed from any concerns for external visual reality...

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/..._65-005640.jpg

Denis was a Post-Impressionist, Symbolist artist... and a member of Les Nabis. The Nabis, or "prophets" saw themselves as prophets of modern art. They were profoundly indebted to the innovations of the Impressionists, but wholly rejected the Impressionist notion that modern art needed to be rooted in the artist's perceptions of visual reality. Art could just as well be rooted in the artist's perceptions of music, literature, other art... as well as ideas, emotions, and feelings. The Nabis were greatly inspired by Paul Gauguin and the manner in which his paintings employed the artificial outlines and brilliant colors as well as flat shapes and decorative patterns of early Renaissance and Medieval art. They were especially fascinated with stained glass and tapestries. Maurice Denis formulated the idea that would become central to virtually the whole of Modernism: "Remember that a painting - before it is a battle horse, a nude model, or some anecdote - is essentially a flat surface covered with colours assembled in a certain order." This statement echoes Oscar Wilde's quote: "Art finds her own perfection within, and not outside of, herself. She is not to be judged by any external standard of resemblance," and points the way toward Clement Greenberg's obsession with the "flatness of the pciture plane" that dominated art theory in the mid-20th century.

Denis' Annunciation employs many of the elements familiar from the earlier Renaissance portrayals: the Lilies (signifying purity), the Angel of the Annunciation, and the open book of prayers. Mary is seen in a convent-like dwelling room with small single bed (no room for a lover). Unlike many Renaissance portrayals, she doesn't recoil... but rather seems contently drawn into herself with a reserved expression of joy. The single modern element to be seen is the landscape which suggest the sort of suburban landscapes of Paris common to so many paintings by Monet and others.

Émile Henri Bernard (1868-1941) was another Post-Impressionist/Symbolist painter. He was friends with Gauguin, Van Gogh, Toulouse-Latrec, Odilon Redon and Ferdinand Hodler. His work displayed the same use of pattern and flat shapes heavily outlined (a style known as cloisonnism because it evoked the technique of cloisonné used in enamels, in which metal wire separates areas of color much like the black leading in stained glass). His Annunciation...

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...ileBernard.jpg

... is even more "modern" is its use of brilliant colors employed for expressive purposes.

Paul Gauguin's Nativity offers perhaps the strongest example of a Post-Impressionist take upon the Christmas narratives:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...auguin-Pau.jpg

Gauguin presents an everyday image of a humble birth in Tahiti portrayed in a manner so as to allude to the Christian Nativity. The result is to suggest a universal relevance of the Biblical narratives... the idea that every birth is akin to the Nativity... all lovers like Adam and Eve... every death like the Passion.

One of the most stunningly unconventional and visionary explorations of the narratives related to Christmas is to be found in the pastel painting, Clouds, by Odilon Redon:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/.../th_clouds.jpg

Redon offers up an image of the Holy Family in a small sail boat. is this perhaps a twist upon the theme of the "Flight into Egypt"? Are the clouds "threatening?" Is this a storm looming in the distance? Regardless, the painting is absolutely stunning. The clouds burst forth in a dazzling display of incandescent colors... like a field of flowers in bloom... or the most scintillating display of the Northern Lights.

Some of the finest images relating to the Holidays and the Winter Season can be found in work intended as illustration. In spite of his reputation for decadent and erotic prints, Aubrey Beardsley also produced a rather lovely print of the Madonna and Child as a Christmas card:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...-card-1895.jpg

His work displays many of the same elements found in the art of the Pre-Raphaelites, the Nabis, and other early Modernists... especially the flat shapes and patterns that evoke Medieval art and tapestries.

William Ladd Taylor (1854-1926) was an illustrator educated in New York, Boston, and Paris best known for his book illustrations on the American pioneers, Longfellow, the Psalms, American literature, and the Bible.

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...rintheEast.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...LaddTaylor.jpg

Taylor's A Star in the East and The Nativity: And She Wrapped Him in Swaddling Clothes... are both beautiful atmospheric paintings employing a monochromatic palette to convey the sense of mood

The last artist I will look at in this post is the well-known American illustrator/decorative painter, Maxfield Parrish (1870- 1966). Parrish's art features dazzlingly luminous colors; the color "Parrish Blue" was named in acknowledgement. He achieved the results by means of the technique known as glazing in which bright layers of transparent oil colorare applied alternately over a base monochromatic rendering. Parrish was also one of the first artists/illustrators to make extensive use of photography.

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...as_morning.jpg

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...h_evening2.jpg

His paintings, Christmas Morning and Evening both evoke the still atmosphere in which the greenish light suggests the sun just rising (or having set) over the horizon. The only suggestion of human activity in either painting is conveyed by the light emanating from a single room in the farm house in the distance... all else is quiet... "silent night."

And maybe we'll all join hands and sing Kumbaya. No, the pendulum is already in motion, and change is afoot.

And you know this based upon...? Your profound grasp of the art of the last 50-75 years? Your experience with what is happening in the galleries and museums? Your knowledge of what is being taught in the art schools today?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mortalterror

And maybe we'll all join hands and sing Kumbaya. No, the pendulum is already in motion, and change is afoot. It's one thing to describe the art world in terms of a plurality, and to a certain extent that's even true, but it is still not a unified or equal plurality. There will always be greater and lesser trends, even if they continue to tolerate each other.

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What penduleum, and what trend? What do you mean, speficially? Are you talking about non-representational art being rejected or devalued in favor of ...?

Trends do not mean that previous art is devalued. On the contrary, we can see the good, from the vantage point of today, in all the art of yesterday, no matter how varied in style and form and content they are. As to non-representational art, it used to be a dogma of modernism that the figurative was banished from serious fine arts. If you talking about a pendulum moving away from that, you're more than three decades too late. The figurative had meaningfully re-entered serious modern art by 1980.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stlukesguild

And maybe we'll all join hands and sing Kumbaya. No, the pendulum is already in motion, and change is afoot.

And you know this based upon...? Your profound grasp of the art of the last 50-75 years? Your experience with what is happening in the galleries and museums? Your knowledge of what is being taught in the art schools today?

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I have both eyes to see and ears to hear.

Taylor's A Star in the East and The Nativity: And She Wrapped Him in Swaddling Clothes... are both beautiful atmospheric paintings employing a monochromatic palette to convey the sense of mood

You definately need to click on the thumbnail for "The Nativity...", or you might overlook the face peeking out from the swaddling.

Parrish was also one of the first artists/illustrators to make extensive use of photography.

I'm assuming photographs were used in the examples you posted, is that correct?
They certainly have a clarity suggestive of a photograph.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mortalterror

I have both eyes to see and ears to hear.

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Except that really doesn't answer the question. What, specifically, do you mean?

Anyone who thinks abstract, non-representational art is going away, no matter how much they may wish for that to happen merely because they, personally, don't "like" or "understand" such art, is in for big disappointment, I'm afraid.

St. Luke,

I don’t know what annunciation has to do with holiday season. But if you think that it does, we can’t miss Bradley Platz’s The Announciation. :lol:


http://www.bradleyplatz.com/#!the-an...c1mf/image10bv

And a few more of his paintings.



The golden Calf

http://www.bradleyplatz.com/#!the-go.../cee5/imagei9c



Sophia (The Birth of the Demiurge)

http://www.bradleyplatz.com/#!sophia...c1mf/image1ggy


Bradley Platz’s website

http://www.bradleyplatz.com/#!2007/c1mf



Odilon Redon’s Flower Clouds and Holiday season? No clue....... His art is full of mythology and a few intriguing paintings.

We have a dark angel again.


Angel In Chains

http://www.odilon-redon.org/Angel-In-Chains-large.html



Aged Angel

http://www.odilon-redon.org/Aged-Angel-large.html


It reminds me about another symbolist painter - Franz von Stuck - lot's of mythology and of course dark angel.


The angel of the Court

http://www.repfineart.com/reproducti...ck/angel-court


The Guardian of Paradise

http://www.canvasreplicas.com/Stuck101.htm





Another intriguing painting of Odilon Redon’s. Oannès (Christ et Serpent)

http://www.odilon-redon.org/Oann%C3%...%29-large.html

Quote:

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Oannes in Armenian) was the name given by the Babylonian writer Berossus in the 3rd century BCE to a mythical being who taught mankind wisdom. Berossus describes Oannes as having the body of a fish but underneath the figure of a man. He is described as dwelling in the Persian Gulf, and rising out of the waters in the daytime and furnishing mankind instruction in writing, the arts and the various sciences.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oannes#As_Oannes

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I am not surprised that you have brought Aubrey Beardsley. Your favorite, eh?
A few more angels. :lol:


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ey_Lampito.jpg


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Puderquast.jpg

And more of Aubrey Beardsley - Lysistrata.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ca...y_-_Lysistrata

Redon’s Angel in Chains is a work clearly in the modernist impulse, the form of the angel seemingly hewn from the rock on which it sits. And notice the radical simplifications, like the circular breast , and arms almost like tubes, calling to mind the figurative simplifications of Cezanne and Picasso. Another aspect that makes this work so modern is the sumptuous appreciation, and application, of paint as an end in itself, as opposed to a medium to imitate what is before one’s eyes. Look at all the subtle color variations in the both the lighted and shadow regions of the rock, and the way impasto strokes of paint delineate the volume of the rock in the lighted area and bring it more forward to the eye. He could in fact have made a canvass just of that rock, and it would have been monumental.

Compare "Angel in Chains" with an early Picasso Cubist conception:

http://www.terminartors.com/files/ar...hree_Women.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cioran

Except that really doesn't answer the question. What, specifically, do you mean?

Anyone who thinks abstract, non-representational art is going away, no matter how much they may wish for that to happen merely because they, personally, don't "like" or "understand" such art, is in for big disappointment, I'm afraid.

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I do not know if this is a tendency, does not matter. Tendencies or movements, are a way we look the past. But some of most popular visual artworks are less modernists or abstract and have a classical touch... comic books and video games. Develuation of art movements is a need even for the art movement strength. They will be reborn latter, with more strength and significance. Nothing stops.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JCamilo

I do not know if this is a tendency, does not matter. Tendencies or movements, are a way we look the past. But some of most popular visual artworks are less modernists or abstract and have a classical touch... comic books and video games. Develuation of art movements is a need even for the art movement strength. They will be reborn latter, with more strength and significance. Nothing stops.

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What today is called post-modernist art is clearly quite different from modernism, contains a good deal of figuratism as well as an air of irony, detachment, self-referential parody and other characteristics not found in modernism. My point, however, is to contest the notion that these kind of changes somehow devalue modernism.

A Mondrian that seems to fit the season:

http://i.blogg.no/400x296/http://wic...1199392063.jpg

I don’t have any idea why you said that Pre-Raphaelites were quite reactionary. If we look at themes, we may see themes from Greek/Roman mythology . Evelyn de Morgan was involved in occult and her art is quite intriguing.

The dominant strains in art as from the late 1700s through the early/mid-1800s were Neo-Classicism and Romanticism. Neo-Classicism was rooted in the philosophy of the Enlightenment and stressed reason and logic over all. In visual terms this meant an art rooted in the paintings of the Renaissance and the art of Classical Greece and Rome stressing clarity of form, line, and rational composition based in mathematics. The subject matter tended to be that which glorified nobility of character, heroic deeds, military and political achievements, etc... The best example of the Neo-Classical painter was Jacques Louis David:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...g-the-alps.jpg

Romanticism stressed "realism" over "the ideal"; the "exotic" worlds of the Middle-Ages, Persia and the Middle-East, and the wild, unspoiled landscapes of America over Greece and Rome and the Florentine Renaissance; emotion and unbridled passion over logic and reason; atmosphere and color over line and form; and the overwhelming power of nature as opposed to the achievements of man. Among the leading Romantics, we should include:

Goya:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8219/8...6f0ba628_m.jpg

Caspar David Friedrich:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...akwood1810.jpg

J.M.W. Turner:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8354/8...856ca3aa_n.jpg

As the century progressed, the boundaries between Romanticism and Neo-Classicism became increasingly blurred. The most important artist to truly straddle the line was undoubtedly Ingres. Ingres merged the linear clarity and immaculate, polished form of Neo-Classicism with the exoticism and eroticism and rich color of Romanticism:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8075/8...5e4d091c_n.jpg

As with every artistic style, Romanticism and Neo-Classicism became academic and mannered. The "masters" of the French and British academies were masterful technicians... but their paintings lacked the originality, the energy, and the passion of the original Neo-Classicists and Romantics.

The cutting edge in art shifted toward "Realism". The leading "Realists" included:

Gustave Courbet:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8492/8...2e3a763f_n.jpg

Millet:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...ngelus_ATC.jpg

Early Degas:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...egas-woman.jpg

Early Manet:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8211/8...93f56a8c_n.jpg

Daumier:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...o/th_450-1.jpg

Winslow Homer:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...he_Orchard.jpg

and George Bellows:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...ers_1913-1.jpg

The aim of all these artists was to capture the honest truth with regard to the world that they loved in... whether the urban landscapes of Paris or New York... or the rural life... as they were seen by the artists.

Impressionism, by far the most important and influential movement of the latter 19th century continued in this direction... focusing upon the artist's visual perception of the play of light and color upon the landscapes... or upon the urban scenes of Degas and Manet.

The "reactionary" nature of the Pre-Raphaelites has to do with the fact that for all the revolutionary political fervor, as painters they were quite conservative.

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...den_stairs.jpg

Their paintings were clearly rooted in the Romanticism of William Blake, Medievalism, and the techniques and appropriate subject matter of painting as then taught in academia.

The question of whether an artist is reactionary or revolutionary, of course, is not an immediate measure of artistic merit. William Blake was both reactionary and revolutionary and has had far more impact upon artists into the 20th century than he did upon his immediate peers or successors. Giorgio Morandis simple gray and earth-toned paintings of still-life objects seemed completely out of tune with the work of his era... especially the grand-scaled, heroic, and explosive works of Abstract Expressionism. Today, however, he is one of the most admired painters of the Post-War era... a true "painter's painter."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stlukesguild

[. Giorgio Morandis simple gray and earth-toned paintings of still-life objects seemed completely out of tune with the work of his era... especially the grand-scaled, heroic, and explosive works of Abstract Expressionism. Today, however, he is one of the most admired painters of the Post-War era... a true "painter's painter."

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:)

http://pimientosytomates.files.wordp...rta_-_1956.jpg

Among the artists wanting to capture the honest truth of their world one must pre-eminently include Van Gogh, and his "social realist" period culminated in The Potato Eaters. But then he transcended realism with the discovery of color, and its expressive possibilities.

Quote:

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Originally posted by stlukesguild
Their paintings were clearly rooted in the Romanticism of William Blake, Medievalism, and the techniques and appropriate subject matter of painting as then taught in academia.

The question of whether an artist is reactionary or revolutionary, of course, is not an immediate measure of artistic merit. William Blake was both reactionary and revolutionary and has had far more impact upon artists into the 20th century than he did upon his immediate peers or successors. Giorgio Morandis simple gray and earth-toned paintings of still-life objects seemed completely out of tune with the work of his era... especially the grand-scaled, heroic, and explosive works of Abstract Expressionism. Today, however, he is one of the most admired painters of the Post-War era... a true "painter's painter."

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Well, we may create many theories. I am very far from that but I prefer to look at paintings and the themes. For example, I have found the same themes in painters involved in occult. Second, Greek/Roman mythology themes were painted through centuries. Today, we find strange fascination with demons. Well, not only in paintings but in music.

As a one of example is Qlimax That gathers 30.000 young people indoctrinated into demons and dark side.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArVnBOqSD3Q




We even have Adamu: Luciferian Tantra and Sex Magick written by Micheal Ford.

http://www.amazon.com/Adamu-Luciferi.../dp/1411690656



But dark angels that I posted on my previous post is quite intriguing. With dark angel goes angel of death.

Quote:

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The Book of Abramelin tells the story of an Egyptian mage named Abramelin, or Abra-Melin, who taught a system of magic to Abraham of Worms, a German Jew presumed to have lived from c.1362–c.1458. The system of magic from this book regained popularity in the 19th and 20th centuries due to the efforts of Mathers'' translation, The Book of the Sacred Magic of Abramelin the Mage, its import within the Hermetic Order of the Golden Down, and later within the mystical system of Thelema (created in 1904 by Aleister Crowley).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Crown_Princes_of_Hell

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In the literature,kabbalistic symbol of Leviathan Samael (the angel of death, prosecutor, seducer, the spirit of destruction), who would be killed in the future.

Knowledge of this angel is derived from Talmudic, Kabbalistic and Gnostic literature.

Apparently for ftil, everything to do with the visual arts (and probably all other arts as well) has to do with the occult. This a terribly limited and tedious way of "understanding" art.

I thought about different theories that try to explain art. Interestingly enough, when I look at paintings and the interpretation there is such a contradiction as words don't match with the paintings. Well, I strongly believe that art is not a left brain activity..... Renaissance magicians agree, particularly Bruno and Ficino that art can't be understood by rational mind.

A short review of prof. Ioan P. Culiano’s, Eros and Magic in the Renaissance may explain it.

Quote:

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Ficino, the most prominent of the Renaissance magicians, employed a
curious synthesis of astrology, divination and Kabbalah in his work-keeping
allegiance with the humanist ethos of his day. According to Culiano, Marcilio
also seemed to be a precursor of modern day psychologists, being fully aware of
such things as Freudian projection, the Jungian concept of anima/animus
(female and male counterparts in our psyches) and more importantly how images
impress upon the unconscious mind, thus altering the behavior of the
individual, often times against their will. When images enter through the eye
and into the soul of a person, according to Ficino, they ‘are changed into
phantasms’ , an interesting concept indeed and one quite antithetical to
current day analytical psychology which tends to regard images as being
lifeless. The Renaissance mages regarded these phantasms not metaphorically
but quite literally as having an existence of their own. These phantasms were not
merely the fanciful product of poets’s imaginations whatsoever and the magicians
were well aware of their potential for harm if not controlled.

Marcilio even went on to develop a ‘phantasmic language’ which could be
employed through various conjuring procedure, a language that most certainly
held the interest of the Medici who saw the potential for manipulating the
masses, enabling them to cause large scale possession in order to transfix
and sedate the public at large.

Could the artists of the Renaissance, such as those employed to
illustrate Francesco Colonna’s cryptic work, have been employed by their
wealthy patrons with this specific purpose in mind, i.e. to conjure phantasms
to be then delivered into the souls of individuals , primarily through the
means of beautiful and seductive images in order to create a kind of delirium
and disorientation?


Bruno also delved into the realms of mass manipulation through magic. In his work De Vinculus in Genere
(Of Bonds in General) he daringly posits the idea that the
‘magician-psychologist’ him/herself can directly persuade the masses without
any divine intervention whatsoever, again maintaining a humanist stance like
Ficino. Central to the effectiveness of such workings is to gather as much
personal information about the target individual or groups as possible, for it
is the most effective way to create a link with them to cast spells.

http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?ui...479&topic=6100

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Ficino in his Book of Life explained three monsters to our intellect. Food, sleep, and sex but he called sex the first monster. It is common knowledge what alcohol or lack of seep do to our mind but I have never thought about sex. A very clever way to keep people dumb.

Quote:

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The first monster is sexual intercourse, especially if it proceeds even a little beyond one's strength; for indeed it suddenly drains the spirits, especially the more subtle ones, it weakens the brain, and it ruins the stomach and the heart no evil can be worse for one's intelligence. For why did Hippocrates judge sexual intercourse to be like epilepsy, if not because it strikes the mind, which is sacred;' and it is so harmful that Avicenna has said in his book De animali-bus: "If any sperm should flow away through intercourse beyond that which nature tolerates, it is more harmful than if forty times as much blood should pour forth."~o it was with good reason that the ancients held the Muses and Minerva to be virgins. That Platonic saying has relevance here: When Venus threatened the Muses that, unless they celebrated the rites of love, she would send her son armed against them, "the Muses answered,
'Venus, threaten Mars with such things, your Cupid does not fly among us.'
"
Finally, nature has placed no sense farther from intelligence than touch.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cioran

What today is called post-modernist art is clearly quite different from modernism, contains a good deal of figuratism as well as an air of irony, detachment, self-referential parody and other characteristics not found in modernism. My point, however, is to contest the notion that these kind of changes somehow devalue modernism.

A Mondrian that seems to fit the season:

http://i.blogg.no/400x296/http://wic...1199392063.jpg

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I do not think Mortal is saying post-modernism - purely an chronological accident - will devalue modernism. I think he is saying all XX century art will be devalued and then "selected" by an aesthetic shift. Which is pretty much natural.

Apparently for ftil, everything to do with the visual arts (and probably all other arts as well) has to do with the occult. This a terribly limited and tedious way of "understanding" art.

It also ignores the fact that a deep interest in the occult is a rarity among major artists. Most of the figures that ftil has put forth, including:

Carlos Schwabe:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...ave_Digger.jpg

Anna Razumovskaya:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...movskaya17.jpg

Wojtek Siudmak:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/..._H083721_L.jpg

Andrew Atroschenko:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...roshenko12.jpg

Michael Hussar:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...npo1_12801.jpg

H.R. Giger:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...hr-giger-1.jpg

Vladimir Kush:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...adimirKush.png

Jean-Baptiste Valadie:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...55x46cm550.jpg

Ferdinand Knopff:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...84836c59_b.jpg

Bradley Platz:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...ationPlatz.jpg

Emile Fabry:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8355/8...c41122b7_n.jpg

Alexandre Seon:

http://i1245.photobucket.com/albums/...p9xo1_1280.jpg

Elihu Vedder:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8071/8...2ebde420_n.jpg

Jean Deville:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8076/8...c968ef03_n.jpg

... are very minor figures within the tradition of Western Art History. You cannot engage in a dialog in which you make sweeping statements about the proliferation of the imagery drawn from the occult, Masons, Gnosticism, the Templars, the Illuminati, or what have you and then attempt to illustrate of prove your point by employing nothing other that obscure and minor figures. I have some 120,000+ files or images of paintings saved to my hard-drive... and yet with the exception of Deville, Schwabe, and Knopff, I had to go on line for images of all the painters you have listed. You could "prove" nearly any far-out theory by employing a similar methodology. I could "prove" that Western Art was dominated by homo-eroticism simply by entering "homo-erotic art" into a Google image search. And hell, my theory would hold up better than your notion of the predominance of the occult on art (and the use of art in the manipulation of the masses). I'd at least have Michelangelo, Leonardo, Caravaggio, and Francis Bacon... some major painters... to reinforce my point. Most of the artists you have cited (above) are minor figures having had little or no impact upon the tradition of art... or illustrators/low-brow painters. Admittedly, I have stated that I am intrigued with the so-called "low-brow artists"... but largely because they offer a challenge to the increasingly pretentious, esoteric, and inaccessible art championed by certain circles of the "art world." Most "Low Brow Artists" (like artists in any other realm) are mediocre at best. A good many, like Michael Hussar and H.R. Giger are little more than kitsch illustrators for an audience with a passion for the darker side of the Sci-Fi/Fantasy genre.

I prefer to look at paintings and the themes.

That is fine for you. A good many look at art first and foremost for the subject matter. When asked what sort of art they like, they might respond "landscapes" or "religious paintings" or "mythological paintings". You, however, are making assumptions about artists and their intentions and it may serve you well to come to some understanding of how artists look at art. While the formal university art degree demands that the art student be somewhat well-read as well as knowledgeable of art and art history, this was not always so. The Renaissance ideal of the artist who is also well-read, knowledgeable of literature, poetry, history, mathematics, science, philosophy, theology, religion, etc... is quite rare. Even in the instance when an artist fits this Renaissance ideal, in most instances the artist is first and foremost a visual being. Artists are looking... at the visual world around them and at the tradition of Art History in which they labor. Most artists I know are not researching esoteric religions, Gnosticism and the occult. I doubt that Michael Hussar was researching anything more than the images on heavy metal record albums and science fiction and horror books and films.

I do not think Mortal is saying post-modernism - purely an chronological accident - will devalue modernism. I think he is saying all XX century art will be devalued and then "selected" by an aesthetic shift. Which is pretty much natural.

But I think that Mortal does assume that the vast majority of the most admired masters of Modernism and Post-Modernism are little more than a case of the Emperor's New Clothes. The majority of all art is mediocre and undoubtedly time will begin to sort things out... and perhaps in ways that we, living now, would not have imagined. Abstract Expressionism, which was virtually unassailable 20 or 30 years ago has now undergone a degree of re-evaluation. Most critics will now admit that a lot of the glowing praise that surrounded the movement was overblown hyperbole. I doubt few today would suggest that Pollock or Rothko or Motherwell were equals to... let alone greater than Picasso or Matisse. At the same time, we now recognize that there were other artists at that time including Morandi, Giacometti, Francis Bacon, Dubuffet, and Andrew Wyeth that were producing a stunning body of work that was sadly ignored then. Hell, who in the 1930s or 1940s could have even imagined that Duchamp would be seriously placed alongside Picasso and Matisse by the late 20th century? But the rise of Conceptual Art led to a need for a founding father... and Duchamp was the clear choice.

Having said this... it's easy to make a vague statement like "the pendulum in is motion and change is afoot." Art will always involve change and evolution... but how do you assume which direction this change will take us? Those who predicted a return to figurative art at the height of Abstract Expressionism were quite right... but I doubt that they imagined that this return to figurative art would look like Pop Art. Right now there are many pushing for what is being loosely called the "New Old-Masterism". A great many private ateliers are springing up where students can develop the traditional skills of drawing and painting. I suspect much of this is in response to the obscene costs of a university art degree that often ends in the students having learned let alone mastered almost no marketable skills let alone the ability to draw or paint (or sculpt, etc...) as they desire. But will this lead to a new "realism" akin to that of the 19th century French and British academies? Undoubtedly some will take this route... but others will recognize that we don't live in the 19th century... that the visual world around us is market by different light sources, different colors, different fashions, different objects, etc...

Well, a pendullum can only go back and forth. I guess Mortal feels or wants a return of classicism or at least more traditional style. I do not know, but then, it makes sense if we consider Mortal preferences.

Yes, as you saw by my examples - comic books and video games (I should have added movies too) - i do think a tendecy for classical style is reflected on market. The question "this is art" or "what is art" seems exausted, probally as much the romantics felt the enlightment model was exausted.

Since i consider modernism and even know, a romantic decline, yet, romanticism, i guess we are closing a cicle towards classicism again. Usually classical artist organize multiple cultures in one, the fragmentaded, multi-cultural society of today seems to be needing this kind of solution.

But of course, it Mortal guess is a good as any. You know, in 100 years, they may say you two are from the same movement, like Voltaire and Rousseau.

Quote:

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Originally posted by stlukesguild

It also ignores the fact that a deep interest in the occult is a rarity among major artists. Most of the figures that ftil has put forth, including:

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LOL! Nice try to misinterpret my posts. I guess you are out of ammunition. :lol:

I think that I have already posted Carlos Schwabe and Belgian occult symbolism video here.
For your convincence.

Carlos Schwabe - Occultist Symbolism II

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_X4dCtMuFY


Jean Deville - Belgian Occultist Symbolism I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54IeQWD7QHI


Emile Fabry - Belgian Occultist Symbolism IV and last.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNnN2PtW1bg

Quote:

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Jean Delville (19 January 1867, Leuven – 1953) was a Belgian symbolist painter, writer, and occultist. In 1896, he founded the Salon d’Art Idealiste, which is considered the Belgian equivalent to the Parisian Rose & Cross Salon and the Pre-Raphaelite movement in London.

Delville became committed to spiritual and esoteric subjects during his early twenties. In 1887 or 1888 he spent a period in Paris, where he met Sâr Joséphin Péladan, an eccentric mystic and occultist, who defined himself as a modern Rosicrucian, descended from the Persian Magi.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Delville

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Alexandre Seon, Elihu Vedder and Fernand Khnopff were members of Rose &Cross Salon.

Fernand Khnopff - Belgian Occultist Symbolism III

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b81TYTQva0g

But you have forgotten about a few painters I have posted.

Quote:

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Siegfried Zademack, Gravity drive Angel Engel # 146 in Galery

http://www.zademack.com/html/00index.htm


More of his paintings

http://www.tuttartpitturasculturapoe...2-germany.html



Heide Proksch, GARTEN DER DREI LICHTER


http://www.fantastic-art.at/tapis/framesetwerkee.htm



Peter Proksch, Das Grab Des Osiris

http://www.fantastic-art.at/fantasti...hmalerei5e.htm


Natalia Gerasimenko

http://www.levity.com/alchemy/gerasimenko.html
http://www.online-literature.com/for...uot-and-Beyond

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Quote:

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You, however, are making assumptions about artists and their intentions and it may serve you well to come to some understanding of how artists look at art.

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Shaw me where I make assumptions about artists and their intentions! How many times I need to repeat that I don’t make assumptions. I also never make interpretations. Please don’t confuse me with your own posts…full of interpretations.

Quote:

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I doubt that Michael Hussar was researching anything more than the images on heavy metal record albums and science fiction and horror books and films.

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LOL! His art is full of occult symbolism.......he put unintentionally.

But of course, it Mortal guess is a good as any. You know, in 100 years, they may say you two are from the same movement, like Voltaire and Rousseau.

I get to be Rousseau!:smilewinkgrin:

LOL! Nice try to misinterpret my posts. I guess you are out of ammunition.

My point was that you are using certain artists to illustrate your ideas about the proliferation of the occult in modern art... but the artists you have cited are all minor figures at best. Pull out the standard texts on the history of Western Art and you are not going to find any of the artists you have listed. Simply posting more images of Deville, Schwabe, and Fabry is not going to change that fact.

My own view is that painterly art is increasingly going to be informed by, and to some extent merge with, technology. Already for years one has been able to use applications like Photshop to create stunning art (and also mediocre art). I can foresee (as mentioned earlier) video merging with paint. I can see immersive 3D virtual reality environments -- some of them creating aritifical worlds, others, perhaps, making 3D recreations (perhaps even with sound, movement and other interaction) of the great works of the past, like the Sistine Chapel.

There is also the rise of 3D printing. Amazingly enough, in the sad era of Newtown and the deranged NRA, it is now possible to use a 3D printer to print a gun that fires real bullets. Happily, I can foresee other, more benign uses of this technology, such as the merger of painting with sculpture, and the merger of both of them with virtual reality.

As time goes be, easel painting may come to be seen as entirely passe, an old "luddite" art form that has outlived its usefulness. Should that happen, it may inspire a backlash among the Luddite Easel Painters Alliance, who not only will insist on preserving the obsolete art form, but perhaps taking it back to its pre-photographic roots -- to a more realistic, classicist conception, and leaving the razzmatazz to the techno-artists. So ironically painting may come full circle but for unexcpected reasons.

All of the above are speculations, of course, but they do not seem too implausible.

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Originally Posted by ftil

LOL! His art is full of occult symbolism.......he put unintentionally.

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There you go. Fitl's next tactic will be to claim that occultism informs ALL art, whether the artist knows it or not. It may be unintentional, but it's there!

Ftil evidently believes occultism is the key to reality. How boring.

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Originally Posted by stlukesguild

LOL! Nice try to misinterpret my posts. I guess you are out of ammunition.

My point was that you are using certain artists to illustrate your ideas about the proliferation of the occult in modern art... but the artists you have cited are all minor figures at best. Pull out the standard texts on the history of Western Art and you are not going to find any of the artists you have listed. Simply posting more images of Deville, Schwabe, and Fabry is not going to change that fact.

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You have absolutely no idea why I posted occult painters. It is not good to try to sit in somebody’s head. :lol:


I remember that you didn’t like Andrew Atroschenko but what about this painting.

Robert Coombs, Almost Sundown.