First off, welcome, manders, to the forum. I am pleased you have such an avid interest in D.H.Lawence. I share this interest whole-heartedly. The man's work and life never ceases to fascinate me.
Wow, so much here to address, so do be patient. I will work on all of this. First off, if you read any of our discussion, it took place a year or so back; however, threads never really close or end, which makes life interesting, isn't that correct? This discussion was great and then after we discussed "Sons and Lovers'. Currently, we have a very long running 'Lawrence Short Story' thread; this month we have been discussing the longer story "The Princess" - you may be aware of this fact already as attributed to your biographical readings - that this story was also based on a real person, Dorothy Brett. In fact, most of Lawrence's stories were based on someone real; often it is a challenge to find out just who he fashioned the characters after. I have read now 4 or 5 full biographies - all totally fascinating to me; I haven't read the one you mentioned but I will look into it. I have the Cambridge ones currently to tackle. I can't get the last one - "The Dying Game" because the price on that one keeps soaring; quite impossible to aquire. I have several other spin-offs that I also plan to read - one is 'The Minoan Distance'...this deals with Lawrence, during his traveling years, expecially in NM and Mexico; I haven't read all of that yet, just parts. I am quite obsessed with Lawrence, as by now, you can imagine. Still he wrote so darn much, his letters themselves take up about 8 full volumes, it is always an endless pursuit to find more Lawrence...or course I have my work cut out for me now....my goal being to read all that I do own presently. Let me get specifically to your comments.
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Originally Posted by
manders7890
I just wanted to address the comment about the change in Halliday's appearance. Before the publication of this book, Lawrence was nearly sued by a friend (wish i could remember his name). The appearance and personality of Halliday was curiously similar to that of this old friend. To protect his hard earned income and royalties on the book, and in accordance with his publisher's wishes, he changed the appearance from black hair to blond. He was still sued and the man took part of his earnings for the book. Questions still arise as to whether or not he was only making a deal of it for monetary gain.
Yes, this is basically true; I and the group here, pretty much knew this and since Lawrence had first written "The Rainbow" and I believe it was banned or he was also sued for that novel, therefore he had to comply his publishers. I don't think it was profit per ce that drove Lawrence, but he had to live, also. He cared little for money or riches, but he had to support his wife and he make enough money to finally be enabled to travel to the places he desired to go. He couldn't starve; so one must understand, he could not be expected to write for no or little profit. There was an early time he had to borrow money and he abhored the idea. He paid it all back. I think also Lawrence might be inclined to change a persons hair color or his physical appearance for symbolic reasons, not just out of fear of being sued. Lawrence was always being threatened to be sued. He would verbally fight back, whenever he had the chance. Knowing what he did about the problems surrounding his publication of "The Rainbow" he was more cautious concerning "Women in Love' - the book that he considered his masterpiece. I happen to think it his best book, as well; although others on the forum may disagree with me. Virgil also knows much about Lawrence - he wrote his thesis on Lawrence's idea of 'Transfiguration'.
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The character Pussum was also inspired by the friend's wife. The character Hermione was also said to be based on a woman named Lady Ottoline Morrell, she did not sue him for libel, but the case was settled out of court. One more thing- If you all remember the part in the book when Gudrun and Gerald were in a restaurant and met Pussum, Halliday and their gang... this actually happened in Lawrence's life. His dear friend Katherine Mansfield, one of his few loyal friends, was at a restaurant and overheard two men (Kot and Gertler) making snide remarks about his collection of poems Amores. She walked over to them, asked to see the book and walked away with it, just as Gudrun did with Rupert Birkin's letter.
I don't know if I knew Pussum was based on his wife, but probably I did at the time we discussed this book. I think we discussed these connections on this thread sometime back. We all were very aware that Hermoine was based on Ottoline Morrel; that I found clearly evident in several of my biography books and other research books I keep handy; one especially helpful book is a 'timeline' and this outlines just what Lawrence was doing, where he resided and often entries from his own diary or letters to friends documenting his ideas, as he was writting various stories and novels...it is a great window into what Lawrence was thinking and doing at those times. It is a small book and probably impossible to find but worth it's weight in gold.
I don't know if I knew that Katherine Mansfield had actually lived out this scene so this interests me. Thanks for adding it to this thread - love these little tid-bits of information. I know that Lawrence and Katherine Mansfield were good friends, so this would follow to be true. She definitely would have rallied to Lawrence's defense. It was her husband, who Lawrence later split with, Murray - Murray wrote some scathing commentary on Lawrence and that was that. Kot he also split with; at one time he had been somewhat friendly. I forget about Gertler; I think that Virgil knows more about him than I do but I will look him today, because I just can't recall very much about him, although he was often mentioned by Lawrence or in the biographies which I read sometime ago - within the last 5 yrs or so.
[QUOTE]I really recommend reading his biography, specifically Elain Feinstein's "Lawrence and the Women." His characters are illustrated wonderfully, however they are also mainly based on close friends and family. [quote]
I will have to look into that biography. I actually never heard of this author but he sounds quite informed and interesting. Thanks for suggesting it.
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I find it much easier to understand his novels, which were his most prized possessions, after reading about his life and inspirations. The biography is also not boring, if you do not ordinarily read them, as i do not. I found it quite interesting and I actually enjoy Lawrence much more then I did prior to reading it.
I am in total agreement with this statement and thought of yours. I say it all the time; one can't separate the art from the artist's life and influences, nor the writing from the author's biography - at least not in Lawrence's case...his personal biography definitely inhances and aids the understanding of any of Lawrence's works. I am not a big biography reader either but I was totally captivated by every biography I have read on Lawrence.
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Sons and Lovers is a great book as well, if you would like to learn a bit more about his earlier years from his own personal account. The short story the White Stocking is also EXTREMELY close to his own experiences with his wife Frieda. They undoubtedly loved eachother, but their relationship was on the fine line between love and hate and both were very jealous and violent with eachother (due to her D.H.'s popularity and her lack of it, and his strong fear of powerful women as well as her sexual permiscuity during their marriage).
Yes, "Sons and Lovers" is a classic! We did a full discussion on the novel about a year ago also. How time flies! It was an excellent discussion and discussion group. I hope you can find the thread and review it. I think you will find it highyly informative and interesting. I read the book twice now and the same with "Women in Love"...actually WIL I also listened to an audio-recording now two times - I love it and intend to listen to it again sometime. It is saved on disks and my PC.
In the 'L Short Story' thread, we discussed in-depth 'The White Stocking'...we were aware from the start of the discussion that the idea was based on an incident which happend to Lawrence's mother. I truly was not that aware of his and his wife, Frieda's, connection to this story; this is an early story, so I thought this was prior to all the problems the married couple encountered later on, when say, they had been married 10 yrs or so. All you say about their relationship is true, but I am not sure this story directly connects with them as a newly married couple. I will look this up, since I own a commentary book exclusively on the early fiction of Lawrence - the author, Michael Black, goes into accurate detail concerning this story and it's background, among other stories of Lawrence's. I may be wrong and have just forgotten that connection - it would seem somewhat logical. The M. Black book has helped greatly in the short story discussion group. I hope you will be able to join us in our next discussion, which may either be in January or February - we have not decided on the next one yet. We may skip a month; we had discussed that idea.
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Sorry if i interrupted, however I thought it would be beneficial to know a bit about his struggles and life if you want to further understand his novels, poems and short stories. Thank you for reading! =)
Oh don't be sorry; I am so glad you showed up and your comments are very helpful. Like I said the groups never really die out or end. I hope I have been of help to you, as well. We do however know about his many struggles in life....I believe that is one good reason I am so drawn to the author and of course, he fought against all odds, having such poor health....but his genius was always evident.
Feel free to post again or contact me about Lawrence and I hope sincerely you join our short story discussion group. Also, and in limbo, currently there is a poetry thread on L called "Baby Tortoise" - we attempted to discuss this group of poems but only got so far; hopefully one of these days we will continue and finish up. The poems are wonderful; all of L's poems are terrific and deeply meaningful.
