D.H. Lawrence's Short Stories Thread

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Originally Posted by Antiquarian

Quark could write "Janine, Jersey" on the address label if he was into taking chances. :lol: Who knows? Things have made it to their destination with less. But I'm just being silly.

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Oh, that is a good one - like there is only one Janine in all of tiny New Jersey! :lol: hey, or he could write 'Jersey Janine' on the envelop - it has a nice ring to it. I should use that for a user name on some site.

Antiquarian, I just saw this as I was writing another post. I can't keep up with everyone. No wonder I am lagging behind in picking a story.

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Hi Janine,

Thanks for the link and I am very interested in the play, considering how much I love "Odour of Chrysanthemums." (Why can't I write like that? LOL) And I do like Geraldine Fitzgerald.

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Hi Antiquarian! Glad you liked the link. You will enjoy that site. It will give you tons of idea of great productions to look for on Amazon. I want to get more myself. There are many plays and I like some of the Operas I have seen before on tape only and hope to own someday. I do own a number of the Kultur DVD's and like them very much: Madame Butterfly, Tosca, some of the ballets, etc. Yeah, really...why can't any of us write like that? I guess the answer is we are not pure genius like L was. It was natural, I am sure, for him from a very early age. Read "Sons and Lovers", A, and you will get a window into his early life. The story is mostly biographical with some differences of course. We can discuss the parellels when you do read it. I know the biographies well by now and what is the fiction and what is based on truth. The story will take you in. You will love it.

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Oh, take your time on the email. Email is not fun if it's not relaxed.

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I know, but I had some much and I was falling behind I was determined to finish up a few, yours was longer than I though, A.;) not complaining since I write novels to people - poor recipricants!:lol:

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Thanks for the commentary from Black. It helps a lot toward understanding the stories more fully.

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I just love that Michael Black book. It is well worth buying if you really are into Lawrence's work. I get so much out of that book and his commentaries. I wish he had written one on the later work, also. I am glad that bit helped you to understand; but seriously, that is only the tip of the iceberg.

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I think the lamp globe was broken, Janine, as well as the vase. The chrysanthemums were described as "reddish-brown" and as "pink."

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Yes, I am not quite sure what to make of the two colors - 'reddish-brown' and 'pink'. I think someone said in our discussion that 'reddish-brown' is the color of dried blood; so that could be significant. I think 'pink' might indicate life and the dried blood indicate death. I am only conjecturing. The broken vase might symbolise the man's broken body. I think the decay of the flowers is important and indicates death like ashes and the burning away for new life to blossom - perhaps the 'pink'....one new life and one dying old life.

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I like Lawrence more and more and more.

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Oh my gosh, I can see it now; you will become addicted just like me! ;) :D

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Originally Posted by Dark Muse

Well if you live anywhere near any mom and pop type of bookstores, that deal in buying and selling of old/used books, I have a few stores like that around here where I get most all my books for.

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Mom and pop do everything in my town besides sell books. There are mom and pop grocery stores, restaurants, car dealerships, craft shops, funeral homes, but no used book stores. I've been to stores like the one you describe--and I felt like Marco Polo making bargains in the Orient--but I've never actually lived close to one.

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Originally Posted by Antiquarian

Quark could write "Janine, Jersey" on the address label if he was into taking chances. :lol: Who knows? Things have made it to their destination with less. But I'm just being silly.

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That would be silly. I don't think the mailman would get the joke, though, and we're already on hostile terms after I hounded him for two months when my letters from grad schools were arriving.

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Originally Posted by Janine

Yes, I am not quite sure what to make of the two colors - 'reddish-brown' and 'pink'. I think someone said in our discussion that 'reddish-brown' is the color of dried blood; so that could be significant. I think 'pink' might indicate life and the dried blood indicate death. I am only conjecturing. The broken vase might symbolise the man's broken body. I think the decay of the flowers is important and indicates death like ashes and the burning away for new life to blossom - perhaps the 'pink'....one new life and one dying old life.

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The pink or brownish-red flowers are puzzling, but the vase crashing is easier to understand. It breaks when they're carrying in the husband's body, so it's connected with his death and everything that represents: the end of their relationship, the end of his life, the end of her illusions about their marriage. All these things are brought to mind by the shattering vase.

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Originally Posted by Quark

Mom and pop do everything in my town besides sell books. There are mom and pop grocery stores, restaurants, car dealerships, craft shops, funeral homes, but no used book stores. I've been to stores like the one you describe--and I felt like Marco Polo making bargains in the Orient--but I've never actually lived close to one.

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Oh poor poor Quark .....:bawling:

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That would be silly. I don't think the mailman would get the joke, though, and we're already on hostile terms after I hounded him for two months when my letters from grad schools were arriving.

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Somehow I can picture that.:lol:

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The pink or brownish-red flowers are puzzling, but the vase crashing is easier to understand. It breaks when they're carrying in the husband's body, so it's connected with his death and everything that represents: the end of their relationship, the end of his life, the end of her illusions about their marriage. All these things are brought to mind by the shattering vase.

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Quark, my post #1499 may have faded into obscurity....it is on the page, prior to this one. Go back and read the parts I quoted from the Michael Black book, if you have not already done so. This might cast some light on the significance of the color 'warm' red, like blood (life) and the 'cold' white, the light (death).
Yes, I agree - the broken vase is pretty obvious in it's meaning.

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Originally Posted by Antiquarian

The chrysanthemums were "reddish-brown" in the beginning, I think, Janine, then they were referred to as "pink." Perhaps this signifies a move from life to death, or maybe we're reading too much into this? I sometimes wonder if authors consciously write all the symbols into their fiction that we extricate or if some of it is done on a subconscious level. I know when I write, some of the symbolism is written subconsciously, but then, I'm not a terrific writer. LOL

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Antiquarian, yes, that could be true of some authors and their critics (I have even thought as much myself), but I do not think it is true of Lawrence's work. His work is filled with tons of symbolism; I believe and so do most scholars that this was quite intentional and not subconscious, on the part of Lawrence. I think the mere fact he named this story 'Odour of Chrysantemums' indicates just how important the flowers are to the ideas in the story - those of death and rebirth. Why did he choose a chrysantemum which is a perennial and not an annual, which when dead would have remained dead? It seems to me the 'chrysantemum' symbolises the whole idea of autumn and the idea of eternal rest for the miner; but of course, I could be wrong. I might even be contadicting myself, not sure now. I have more inmind the idea of death not being the 'end all', but the beginning of rebirth beyond an earthly body....there is biblical references in the story, as you so efficently pointed out to us. I think all the symbols in this story give us hints - such as the two women washing the body like the body of Christ.

Ok, then this change in color might symbolise the idea of the dying down or dying out and then the rebirth. That was a constant Lawrence theme. His symbol was the phoenix bird, who dies and burns down to ash; then rises from the ashes to be reborn. I believe also the mother of the dead miner refers to his skin as still pink as a baby's. At least I recall that from the play I saw.

Hi Everyone, It is me again with an announcement.

Please forgive me; I still have not settled on a story and I will have to delay until Wednesday, because I am not feeling that well tonight. I think it is just seasonal allergies that is getting me down, and I am excessively tired out and my sinus' are bothing me greatly. I want to take the time tonight and tomorrow night to review, what I read in the short stories and I want to read one more for consideration. Then on Wednesday I promise to post the new story and write something briefly to introduce it.

I talked to Virgil and he does not mind the delay at all; in fact, he felt we should take the whole month off; but I did not want to do that, since everyone is now excited and enthused and ready for the next story....so am I, as well.

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Originally Posted by Antiquarian

I don't like to disagree with Virgil, Janine, but I don't really want to take a whole month off. Now, a week wouldn't bother me. I have "catching up reading" to do and then looking up the posts anyway. But take your time and I hope you feel better soon. Just for myself, I can print out the stories you've already read and read them myself in the interim. And I still have to get a Lawrence short story book.

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Antiquarian, I did not agree with Virgil about that either. I want to continue. We have a momentum here I would not want to lose and taking off even one month would lose it and the thread would fall into obscurity that quickly. It took too much work to build this thread up and make it a success. At least I feel it is a great success so far. I would rather delay till Wed. and better review the stories so I pick one that please you all of you or at least attempts to. I also need to prepare my little introduction to the story. I have read a number of L's short stories lately but now they have become a muddle and I need to sort all this out. A few were too long and involved for right now but they will be great possibilities for later on.

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I did not think chrysanthemums had any odor at all. The ones I've had didn't, or it was very, very slight. I don't think they're known for having an odor.

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We did discuss that fact awhile back in the posts. I can't now recall just what we came up with for the significance of them being a flower with no odour. I believe there was something I found that was documented on the reason L picked those. I am sorry my memory does not serve me to remember why he would pick an odourless flower and then call it the title he did. Perhaps that was a kind of irony. Maybe Virgil, Quark or Dark Muse will remember why?

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Thank you for the information regarding Lawrence and symbolism. I love symbolism in novels and short stories.

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Well, I only know this much about the symbolism, etc, because I have read tons of commentary on Lawrence offline in books and online as well. You probably could run a search on 'Odour of Chyrsantemums' and find some online, too. I just joined a site called "Blackwell Synergy" and you have assess to tons of good commentary on authors and all kinds of things. I have been wanting to sign-up, since I always run into this site when researching Lawrence and Chekhov, too. It is free to join. I hope it proves helpful, for all of us.
Glad all the extras, I have written, have given you more insight into Lawrence, A. I hope I can continue to help. I always so happy to share Lawrence information. I dig up a lot and love to share it with others.

Tried to get to the last part of your email and then just could not finish it again. There is always tomorrow - right?

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Originally Posted by Janine

We did discuss that fact awhile back in the posts. I can't now recall just what we came up with for the significance of them being a flower with no odour. I believe there was something I found that was documented on the reason L picked those. I am sorry my memory does not serve me to remember why he would pick an odourless flower and then call it the title he did. Perhaps that was a kind of irony. Maybe Virgil, Quark or Dark Muse will remember why?

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LOL you keep forgetting, I was not here when you dicussed that story.

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Originally Posted by Janine

Quark, my post #1499 may have faded into obscurity....it is on the page, prior to this one. Go back and read the parts I quoted from the Michael Black book, if you have not already done so. This might cast some light on the significance of the color 'warm' red, like blood (life) and the 'cold' white, the light (death).

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Yes, but I thought the colors were reddish-brown and pink, not red and white.

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Originally Posted by Janine

I am sorry my memory does not serve me to remember why he would pick an odourless flower and then call it the title he did. Perhaps that was a kind of irony. Maybe Virgil, Quark or Dark Muse will remember why?

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We mentioned it before in conversation, but I don't think we were any less baffled by it than we are now.

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Originally Posted by Janine

Antiquarian, I did not agree with Virgil about that either. I want to continue.

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Oh everyone always disagrees with me. :lol: It's common practice. You should tell everyone about the debate we had on Hamlet a lontg time ago and how you and that other woman who's no longer here both ganged up on me. :D I'm always the outsider. :p

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We did discuss that fact awhile back in the posts. I can't now recall just what we came up with for the significance of them being a flower with no odour. I believe there was something I found that was documented on the reason L picked those. I am sorry my memory does not serve me to remember why he would pick an odourless flower and then call it the title he did. Perhaps that was a kind of irony. Maybe Virgil, Quark or Dark Muse will remember why?

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I don't think we came to any conclusion about the smell. But we did discuss this story between pages 31 through 36 or 37 of this thread. That's not too much to read, and Quark was part of that discussion.

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Well, I only know this much about the symbolism, etc, because I have read tons of commentary on Lawrence offline in books and online as well. You probably could run a search on 'Odour of Chyrsantemums' and find some online, too. I just joined a site called "Blackwell Synergy" and you have assess to tons of good commentary on authors and all kinds of things. I have been wanting to sign-up, since I always run into this site when researching Lawrence and Chekhov, too. It is free to join. I hope it proves helpful, for all of us.

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Interesting. What exactly is that?

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Originally Posted by Virgil

Oh everyone always disagrees with me. :lol: It's common practice. You should tell everyone about the debate we had on Hamlet a lontg time ago and how you and that other woman who's no longer here both ganged up on me. :D I'm always the outsider. :p

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:lol: Awww...poor, poor Virgil....well, actually part of me wants to agree with you, because I could use a month's break, and part of me rejects the idea, because I also want to discuss the story, with this great group we have going. Ok, this second part of myself won out. And... I don't always disagree with you at all, Virgie....but I do when you get mean and irrate;) :lol: (B,M & D to know!) Then I just simply tell you to 'cool it!'.:D

I don't recall that debate on Hamlet, at all. What was it about? See, it really must have been vitally important, when I can't even remember it!

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I don't think we came to any conclusion about the smell. But we did discuss this story between pages 31 through 36 or 37 of this thread. That's not too much to read, and Quark was part of that discussion.

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We didn't? I would have to go back and read those pages, too. I am always meaning to copy this whole thread and all the posts onto a disc to keep for posterity, but I say, 'who ever finds the time?' One day, we could all come onto Lit Net and poof! - everything would be whiped out and it would be like a clean slate, again. Wouldn't that be a horror??? We would have to start all over again, because none of us seems to recall ,just what we did write months ago.
Anyway, I thought we did come up with some reason those were the flowers with no scent. But now that I think of it, I may be thinking of a book I just read "Lady of the Camilias" since, they mentioned that they had no scent either and that is why they were the flower the girl with TB choose - seems scented ones would make her feel ill.
I thought the 'odour' in the case of Lawrence's story might be significant since he wrote a poem called "Violets", which is about the 'smell of violets' and the 'smell of death'. Maybe here, the chrysantemums are also dying and smell like death.
I guess we will have to have a seance and summon Lawrence's spirit to this thread, to tell us just what he had in-mind when he titled the story O of C, OR I could look into my Michael Black book and do research online, maybe at that new site, to see anyone mentions this fact of 'odourless' chrysantemums.

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Interesting. What exactly is that?

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I haven't tried the site yet; but it looks interesting; it became too late last night to look things up. Time will tell. It says it has thousands of articles and commentaries for review. I don't know if they can be copied but I will find out soon enough. To sign up you only needed to provide scanty information so I felt it was totally safe. Of course they probably will send me tons of email, which is just great; this I don't need. I get a ton of junk mail. daily as it is. Doesn't Blackwell produce DVD's or books or something related to literature?

Dark Muse, I know I always assume you were here during that discussion and even earlier ones. It seems you have been here for a long time now. Which story did you start with? I totally forget now; please forgive me.

Yes, the flowers were reddish-brown and pink, Quark.
Reddish-brown is the color of fall - 'rust'... and pink could signify the color of spring. I don't know for sure, but that makes sense. One is the season of dying away and one is the season of rebirth.

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Originally Posted by Janine

Dark Muse, I know I always assume you were here during that discussion and even earlier ones. It seems you have been here for a long time now. Which story did you start with? I totally forget now; please forgive me.

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LOL it is quite alright, I am around so much, it seems like I have been here forever.

My first story here was Sun.

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Originally Posted by Dark Muse

LOL it is quite alright, I am around so much, it seems like I have been here forever.

My first story here was Sun.

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Aha, yes, you are around a lot and often on here - you are pretty quick posting, in the evening hours. You must be a night owl like me.:D
So how many have we done since 'Sun'? I did recall, now that you missed some of the good ones from before. Dark Muse, you should try and read them sometime. They are all such good stories. In fact, it is hard to choose a new one now. I keep thinking those that we already discussed, are such a hard act to follow.

When I get the chance I do wish to read some of the ones already discussed.

So far the ones I have read with you guys are:

Sun
The Man Who Loved Islands
The Shadow in the Rose Garden
Two Blue Birds.

You can get the stories here:

http://www.literature.org/authors/la...-david-herbert

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Originally Posted by Antiquarian

I really want to read "The Man Who Loved Islands" and "Two Blue Birds." I'll find them online somewhere and download them and print them out.

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'The Man Who Loved Islands' is particularly good; I am still musing on that one. 'Sun' is another great one. 'Two Blue Birds' is really sarcastic/sardonic but I liked it. It is quite different that Lawrence's usually stories. The writing is quite and very witty. I can tell you, I think all the ones we discussed so far are really good ones. I like 'Things', also. You might not know this but Lawrence refused to actually own any property and he made his wife hold the deed to their ranch which was given to them by Mabel Dodge in New Mexico. 'Things' is very continental and I feel shows the irony of owning too many things. It has always been one of my favorites, oddly enough since I am a great horder of things.;) :lol: Funny, isn't it?

Well, once again I am off to see the rest of my movie! Good night, Antiquarian and Dark Muse - the late birds!

DM, so you did 4 of the stories so far. You should gradually read all of the ones we discussed, as you suggested you would. I would be curious to see how many of the women characters you end up hating in those stories -;) :lol: I am just joking with you. :D

Night girls! :)