Michelagnolo Florio was the real identity of William Shakespeare (Guglielmo Crollalanza from Messina).
Do you know it ? ;)
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Michelagnolo Florio was the real identity of William Shakespeare (Guglielmo Crollalanza from Messina).
Do you know it ? ;)
Yes, and Dante was a French merchant named Jean d'Aquitaine. Seriously, why even bother?
There are all the evidences you need.
The theory is based on the detailed knowledge of Italy shown in the plays, on the istruction that shown in the plays (very hard to abmit for a glover's son!) and others biographic elements (as the name William Shakespeare that is the english translation of Guglielmo Crollalanza).
If you want can watch this video (Sorry for you, it's in italian the original language of Shakespeare/Crollalanza!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoYln...eature=related
How does Crollalanza become Shakespeare.
Parlo un po, ma non capisco questa stupidità. Perché creda, quando non é abbastanza evidenza?
What proof is there, besides a bunch of names of cities - Shakespeare's plays hardly even approach Italian culture, let alone understand it.
Michelangelo Florio wrote a dialectal comedy “Tantu trafficu ppi nenti”, many years ago of “Much about to do” (lecteral traduction of "Tantu trafficu ppi nenti") that is the same!
Crolla or Scrolla is the italian word for Shake
Lanza is the medieval for Lancia that is the italian word for Speare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBI
There're many other evidences, exspecially biograpichs elements.
This reminds me of an instance where someone on Facebook tried claiming that Barack Obama was V from V for Vendetta. :lol:
Utter balderdash.
It's not too amazing if Shakespeare was an italian, noble writer, of '500.
It's amazing if a glover's son wrote "Antonio e Cleopatra", "Il Mercante di Venezia", etc.
What english licterature producted in '500-'600 ?
Nothing.
Really, there are hundreds of conspiracy theories surrounding Shakespeare and none of them are plausible.
Is very plausible that he was a son of a glover, that left the school at 10, that he knew italian geographics places, uses and histories he never viewed or heard..... :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely
is there an implication in the theory that shakespeare had detailed knowledge of things that a glover would not?
the plays are hardly detailed and certainly not accurate in their beckgrounds. eg. everyone in europe knew the jews were kept in ghettos. thats what ghettos were.
Your is not a deep analisys...Shakespeare/Crollalanza wrote about places like Messina (birthplace of Crollalanza), Verona and many others, not big, italian places, impossible to know for his times.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrismythoi
All places that a semi-analphabetical man of Stratford-upon Avon never knew.
The father of Michelagnelo Florio Crollalanza was jewish.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrismythoi
Shakespeare was well grounded in classical grammar and literature, especially his beloved Ovid, from a fairly respectable local school. The fact that he was a "son of a glover" does not mean anything other than the fact that his father was a glover! Talent, aptitude or genius does not solely belong to the upper classes, not then or now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimo
i thought at that time they were famous ports for trade? do u mean semi-literate? i think you are underestimating common knowledge which is always far greater than what is read in school classesQuote:
Originally Posted by Ultimo
No-one William Shakespeare appears in the registers of Stratford's Schools...why ?
The originals, autographed, plays of Shakespear's never founded ? Why ?
Why in the register of a Club of Straford (that Shakespeare frequented) appears the name "Michelangelo Florio" and not "William Shakespeare"?....
Michelagnolo Florio Crollalanza gradueted in the University of Messina, travelled around Italy (Roma, Padova, Venezia, Verona) Greece, Denmark... (:idea: ) and others places.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely
In the "Merchant of Venice" result references and calls of the venecians laws that only who lived or visited the city was able to know.The same discourse we can do about others contained of others plays...Quote:
Originally Posted by chrismythoi
A question : but if Shakespears were italian what is the problem?
It's a wound on the english proud? ;)
No, the point is the evidence is against you, and if you read The Merchant of Venice, you would note that a) the pound of flesh tradition is sourced elsewhere, and b) he didn't actually know Venetian law, proven by the forced conversion, which is nowhere to be found in Venetian law.
The point is, it is safe to say that linguistically, those texts are English, and very heavily English, making it seem that the author, if not a native speaker, was most necessarily amongst the most proficient speakers of the language of his time. Secondly, biography makes no difference - the texts are 16th-17th century documents, and written in English, which proves he is an English creation regardless. It's the texts that matter, and any quibbling over the authorship is mere stupidity. No real scholar actually would agree with any "new identity". The whole identity question is actually regarded by any credible Shakespeare scholar as one to stay away from, given that it is considered better to address what we do know about Shakespeare, that is, his plays and poems, rather than speculating about biography.
Really I should know better...
Inaccurate as evidence, 400+ year old school records missing, would you expect to find them? You would find it hard to find evidence of my school records, does that make me Italian? As much as I love Italy, no.Quote:
No-one William Shakespeare appears in the registers of Stratford's Schools...why ?
The originals, autographed, plays of Shakespear's never founded ? Why ?
Why in the register of a Club of Straford (that Shakespeare frequented) appears the name "Michelangelo Florio" and not "William Shakespeare"?....
Plays never originally meant to be read, no copyright over ownership of plays so very few ever produced. Let me know if you do find an original autographed first edition of Hamlet, I'll buy it off you for a few quid and sell it on again for millions.
Again are you going to submit a register from a club from 400+ years as proof that Shakespeare didn't exist? Really, are you goint to write the next instalment of The Da Vinci Code?
Good for him, hope he had a good holiday.Quote:
Michelagnolo Florio Crollalanza gradueted in the University of Messina, travelled around Italy (Roma, Padova, Venezia, Verona) Greece, Denmark... (:idea: ) and others places.
In the end nothing matters but the words on the page, but as much as you seem to want to claim Shakespeare as your own I'm afraid he'll always be English. You'll just have to make do with Dante, but didn't you hear Dante was really John Smith from Barnsley, he's English too!:lol:Quote:
A question : but if Shakespears were italian what is the problem?
It's a wound on the english proud?
I 100% agree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBI
Besides, If he wasnt english, than where did he get his extensive knowledge of english history and monarchs? :p
The historical, documented, biography of Michelagnolo Florio Crollalanza.
Michelagnolo borned in Messina 23 april 1564, was the son of Giovanni Florio (medic from Palermo) and the noble-woman Guglielma Crollalanza.
At 16 gratueted at "Gimnasium" in latin, greek and history.
Very young wrote a dialectical play “Tantu trafficu ppi nenti” that appears 50 years after as "Much about to do".
He left Messina because his father was persecuted by the Holy Inquisition (he was jewish and calvinist).
He went first in Valtellina and then in Milan, Padova, Verona, Faenza and Venezia.
At 21 anni Michelangelo started his personal “travel around the world”: he went first in Athen (where teached) then in Denmark, Austria, France, Spain.
At the end of travel Michelangelo lived in Venezia but, after his father killed (and after the death of his beloved girl Giulietta) he saved himself escaping in London.
Here Michelangelo Florio Crollalanza turned identity and became William Shakespeare, taking his name (William appunto) maybe by the male traduction of mother's name "Guglielma Crollalanza" became "William Shakespeare".
Faithfully translated.
From here, he started to wrote plays with the help of his english wife (married at 28) for translation.
nope. doesnt fit.
hmm an interesting point. so interesting that i will start a new thread in its honour in general literature part of t'forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBI
Yet, is fitter than them the ridicolous history of the Stratford's glover :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh
By the local citizens and by local library.Elementary, Dear Watson ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh
It's a sensation, but seems that the sample hypothesisthe Shakespeare was the italian Crollalanza...upset yourself....
Centuries of false certainties, of historical mistifications, SHAKE fearfully....:lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely
Men, to you they remain : Jack the Ripper, The Beatles, Victoria Beckam and Mister Bean.
Ah so you would also then surely admit that it would be possible for an english man to study histories of Italy in the same way?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimo
And so what if he was the son of a glover. Just because he didnt come from a middle class family doesnt mean he wasnt intelligent, and doesnt mean its not impossible that he could become a playwright. Sean O'Casey was born and raised in the slums of Dublin and spent his whole life as a labourer. He wrote some really famous plays. Does that also mean they werent written by him because its not possible for a poor man from the slums to be a writer?
My friend, you compare the histories of the English monarchs (avalaible by any local library or verbal tradition) at the informations or details about the laws, foreshortenings, or costumes of cities very far and distant like Verona or Messina (for example)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh
Yeah, I imagine him as being sound and salty, wearing hard brown leather jackets and going by the name Bill Shakes - like Bill Sykes (the Oliver Reed one), but with a cheerful disposition and a how'dye do in his step. Joseph Fiennes did an imaginative job of him - I liked that energetic version: though the only problem is that it allowed me to think of Shakes as the gym-type - who knows, maybe he was, though I'd say the wooden gyms in those days stank. Because doesn't J. Fiennes remind you of the gym-type, of the good sort, not the muscle bound sort?
Parla italiano o latino, non comprendo fino in fondo i linguaggi barbari.Quando i miei avi (Ovidio, Orazio, Catullo) insegnavano al mondo la letteratura i tuoi avi inseguivano castori nelle foreste della vostra isola, col viso pitturato di blu.Quote:
Originally Posted by joseph90ie
Spero tu abbia afferrato il concetto.
Salvatore Schillaci scored a great goal against Ireland...
Do you remember, my friend ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4pRNv87mDY
{EDIT}
And Schillaci played with Messina Football Club the same city of Crollalanza!:D
Ultimo, just for the record, during the Elizabethan period, the fashions etc of europe were influential even in England. Italian dances etc became very fashionable in the Elizabethan court. People did travel extensively during this period, and many traveled from the UK to Italy. It is quite possible that shakespeare learnt the "laws" and "traditions" of italian cities from those that visited them which would also explain why they arent 100% accurate and some what obsured.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimo
Just because he wrote plays based in Italy does not mean he was really italian. He wrote plays based in greece also. Surely that would not make him greek? Hamlet is based in Denmark. But above all else, a lot of his plays were set and based in Britain. His Historical Plays were English, some of his tragedies where set in britain and so were a handful of his comedies.
Now i'm going to put on my Moderator hat and say a couple of things.
Please refrain from posting in another language, especially if you know another member will not know what you are saying.
stick to discussing the point of the thread and Please do not insult each other.
As tells the documented biography of Crollalanza, he travelled and visited Greek and Denmark too.
An English man of '500 knew Messina and Verona ?
Cite, please, an other english writer who based his production on foreign background...at the time of Shakespeare or after....Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh
Do an example.
Yes. Dont forget only a few centuries before hand was the crusades and Britons were going as far as israel. There is also trade. Ships from England sailing to Italy and further a feild to trade. I studied history and Archaeology. I've a good grasp on the era.
Christopher Marlowe.
Thomas Kyd
For the precision...I don't have insult anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh
Someone insult me. But it's not a problem.
;)
That note was aimed at both of you. I was making a point before a general backlashing occured.
But Marlowe studied the classics, greeks and latins.
And his plays are ambientalize in Paris, Germany or in imaginaries scenes (Cartagine, for example).
Friendly reconstructable by a instructed man.
He not reported details of far, contemporaneus, localities of italian province.
In the '500 there was'nt Interner or Sky Tv....Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh
The classics were studied in all schools in Britain. Marlowe did go on to Uni, but Shakespeare still would have read them in his school in Stratford. Part of the curriculum.
Your question was name another english writer who based his work on forgeign ground at the same time as shakespeare. I gave you two. It is irrelevent which countries they still wrote basing works in foreign countries.