Am I ignorant or...

[gabor520]

racist?

Hello! (long time lurker, first time poster; my English is really terrible but I hope that you will understand my question.)

I always get the stamp: 'you are a racist', because I think the 'white/westerner' literature is much superior to the products (poems, novels, short stories) of the other literatures. (By the way I have got 4 friends - my formerly girlfriend and her friends - from Japan and they think that 'our' writers are so much better.)

I don't see anything groundbreaking in African/Asian literature. I always try to read Chinese etc. novels but I have not read anything with feelengs like that: Hey, she is better than Wharton! He is equal to Mann! He is almost as good as Krasznahorkai!

But maybe you could suggest me titles, and in the end I will change my opinion.

Thank you for reading my post,

Gabor

[free]

I think that nobody should call you a 'racist'. It is just a matter of your choice which literature you find more attractive.

[hannah_arendt]

Neither I think that it`s a rascism. I think also that Asian or Oriental is atractive for us.

[Aylinn]

I always get the stamp: 'you are a racist', because I think the 'white/westerner' literature is much superior to the products (poems, novels, short stories) of the other literatures. (By the way I have got 4 friends - my formerly girlfriend and her friends - from Japan and they think that 'our' writers are so much better.)

If you are telling people that you think western literature is superior to theirs, it is no wonder they call you a racist. They probably wouldn't have called you a racist if you had said that you are interested in western literature and African/Asian literature is not your cup of tea. And really? Do you really think it's a question of superiority rather than preference?

[mona amon]

Ignorant - maybe, I do not know how much you have read of non-white literature, taken into account problems of translation, cultural differences, differences in literary traditions, etc., so I cannot judge.

Racist? Absolutely not! Everyone has the right to like what they like.

[cacian]

racism? in literature? who would have thought that?!!
sorry only kidding.
one cannot compare the middleeast with the fareast let only continent to continent.
literature is literature and in order to be appreciated it has to be read in its former originality glory if you like.
lost in translation is the word for it.
translating books /stories loses nuances expressions and so on and so it makes it hard to appreciate and understand.

[kiki1982]

I have to agree that as soon as you say, 'X s better' in terms of nations and things, people will automatically think you are a) ignorant and b) racist. You have to bear in mind that your Japanese friends have more of a say about Japanese literature than you have, unless you know Japanese.
We can't all know all languages and Eastern literature (whether it's from the Far East or the Middle East or maybe closer by) is vastly under-represented in what is offered to us in the West. Apart from maybe very successful writers or people who have won the Nobel Prize, there is not a lot around.

Even though India, for example, has a great tradition of stories and great sagas, there is not a lot from India apart from a few people who write in English, I am told. At any rate, even if there are more than, say, Pakistani, you don't get the corpus that provides the context for modern Indian lit.

And then you still have to account for the vast problem in translation. Arabic, for example, is a very pictorial and lyrical language (I am told). it's probably difficult to capture the style of a great work, even if it feels great to natives of that language. That aspect is difficult any time, but from the time you're dealing with a language that 'speaks' differently, it's going to be even more difficult to do it.

As you are dealing with a different culture, that has developed in totally different circumstances, you'll also have different issues, which you maybe can't relate to and maybe don't interest you.

[PeterL]

racist?

Hello! (long time lurker, first time poster; my English is really terrible but I hope that you will understand my question.)

I always get the stamp: 'you are a racist', because I think the 'white/westerner' literature is much superior to the products (poems, novels, short stories) of the other literatures. (By the way I have got 4 friends - my formerly girlfriend and her friends - from Japan and they think that 'our' writers are so much better.)


That is not racism. Racism is dividing humanity into several races. There is one race of humans: the human race.

By the way, you should read what you like, regardless of what the author may look like.

[Charles Darnay]

I agree with the above, but you certainly are missing out on some great stuff.

If you haven't, read Murakami. Or the poems of Rumi. And how can you discount Arabian Nights?

The fact is, there is so much in the non-Western canon that to lump it all together and say it is inferior is very myopic.

[stlukesguild]

The literature of the Non-Western world: China, Japan, India, Persia, the Middle-East, etc... is easily as vast and as brilliant as that of the West. Most of us who have made a concerted effort in exploring this literature recognize that we have only skimmed the surface... but even so we recognize that writers such as Firdawsi, Li Bai, Du Fu, Wang Wei, Sei Shōnagon, Lady Murasaki Shikibu, Sugawara no Takasue no Musume, Masaoka Shiki, Basho, Buson, Issa, Yasunari Kawabata, Natsume Soseki, Cao Xueqin, Onono Komachi, Rumi, Hafez, Nizami, Farid ud-Din Attar, Mirabai, T'ao Ch'ien, etc... as well as texts such as The Shanameh, Kokin Wakashū, Man'yōshū, The Conference of the Birds, The Pillow Book, the Mahabharata, the Ramayana, the Gulistan, the Arabian Knights, The Adventures of Amir Hamza, etc... stand shoulder to shoulder with the finest literary creations of the West. Seriously, you cannot make claims as to the "superiority" of one body of literature in comparison to another without knowing just what is entailed in that "other".

[JBI]

Though, in truth for Western-literary backgrounded people, Western literature is probably better. For those schooled in ancient Chinese, the subtleties are beautiful, but the language is suggestive and relative, which involves a sort of specific education in references and styles, that generally most Chinese cannot even understand.

Canon's are in a sense an education - you cannot read Spenser properly without Ariosto, the same way you cannot read Dante properly without reading Virgil. The intertext trains you to appreciate works.

Chinese is even more tradition heavy - as literature functioned as a form of social communication between artistic elites, it became impossible to understand by all unschooled in its subtleties. These pretty much don't come out in transition, which usually implores interpretations of meaning, but none of the tonic word play that makes the worlds so special, as there is really no equivalent in English.

Basically in terms of poetry and much of prose, each sentence can be built with such complex word play that it takes a keen eye to see what is going on. This does not come out in translation, and the art of everything is lost. That is why the best translated poets are not the best stylists, but the most distinctive personalities.

Li Bai (Li Po) Du Fu, Wang Wei, etc. are staples of merely one time (The High Tang). Other genres are completely lost. Sima Xiangru, Su Shi, Qu Yuan, Li Shangyin, etc. are easily their equals, and quite available in translation. But are simply unheard of as they are less vibrant personalities, though incredibly technically exquisite poets.

Prose is generally the same. Even Chinese people don't read it - it's not worse or better, but it is most certainly not understood.

So is Spenser worse than Shelley? Not really, but he is difficult to appreciate, so will always be ranked less. As the world has tended to side Western approaches to culture in most of the world, the form of understanding and the tradition of proper reading are lost. Very few people can properly read these works.

So in a sense, Western literature for those versed in western literature is better. Is it worth it to try to learn a new tradition? Maybe, maybe not. It takes a couple of years of intense study anyway.

[Mr.lucifer]

I geuss the literature of the eastern world will never be as popular as western literature(besides Japan that is) because they're worlds apart, and thus extremely hard to translate.

[JCamilo]

Well, the most influential western book is from asia (The Bible), so it does not matter much. He just have not to think in terms of what is better or not (which is the racist part in the end) and think, that all those cultural bordelines are artificial. Even the idea you can group Islamic, Hindu, Chinese, etc as a big group named asia is misleading.

[Prince Smiles]

You might like to read Abe Kobo's "The Woman in the Dunes" (Tsuna no Onna)

[ennison]

I wouldn't say it's racist to have a preference but you shouldn't put down on a literature until you have saturated yourself in it (and then you can if you want and shrug off the jibes)

[mortalterror]

Right now, I'd say that combined Asia and the middle East are equal to Europe in terms of literature. But then I don't have access to much of the less translated works so they may be even greater.

Various (2400-700BC) Egyptian Book of the Dead
Anonymous (1800BC) Story of Sinuhe
Anonymous (1800BC) Epic of Gilgamesh
Anonymous (1600BC) Enuma Elis
Various (1000-700BC) Book of Odes
Kabti-ilani-Marduk (764BC) Epic of Erra
Vyasa (400BC) Mahabharata
Valmiki (350BC) Ramayana
Qu Yuan (340-278BC) and Song Yu (290-223BC) Chu Ci
Vishnu Sharma (300BC) Panchatantra
Sudraka (150BC) The Little Clay Cart
Various (347-759) Manyoshu
Tao Qian (365-427) Poems
Kalidasa (370-450) Sakuntala and the Ring of Recollection, Meghaduta
Bhartrhari (450) Satakatraya
Xu Ling (507-583) New Songs From the Jade Terrace
Various (550) Mu'allaqat
Bharavi (550) Kiratarjuniya
Muhammad (570-632) Quran
Dandin (600) The Adventures of the Ten Princes
Wang Wei (699-759) Poems
Bhavabhuti (700) Málati and Mádhava
Amaru (700) Amarusataka
Li Bai (701-762) Tianmu Mountain Ascended in a Dream
Du Fu (712-770) The Song of the Wagons
Han-shan (730-850) Cold Mountain Poems
Han Yu (768-824) Essays
Bai Juyi (772-846) Song of Unending Sorrow, Song of the Lute Player
Yuan Zhen (779-831) Biography of Ying Ying
Various (800-920) Kokinshu
Various (800-1200) Antar, A Bedoueen Romance
Rudaki (858-941) Lament in Old Age
Various (900-1300) One Thousand and One Nights
Al-Mutanabbi (915-965) Poems
Li Houzhu (937-978) Poems
Ferdowsi (940-1020) Shahnameh
Sei Shonagon (966-1017) The Pillow Book
Al-Ma'arri (973-1058) The Spark of Flint
Murasaki Shikibu (973-1025) Tale of Genji
Nasir Khusraw (1004-1088) Poems
Su Shi (1037-1101) Poems
Omar Khayyam (1048-1131) Rubaiyat
Vidyakara (1050-1130) Treasury of Verses
Moses Ibn Ezra (1055-1138) Diwan
Judah Halevi (1075-1141) Poems
Li Qingzhao (1084-1151) Poems
Mahadeviyakka (1100) Poems
Khaqani (1121-1190) Gift of the Two Iraqs
Anvari (1126-1189) Tears of Khorasan
Nezami (1141-1209) Khamsa
Attar (1145-1221) Conference of the Birds
Kamban (1150) Ramavataram
Sa'di (1184-1283) Gulistan, Bostan
Jayadeva (1200) Gita Govinda
Rumi (1207-1273) Masnavi
Fakhruddin Iraqi (1213-1289) Divine Flashes
Guan Hanqing (1225-1302) Injustice to Dou E
Bai Renfu (1226-1306) Rain on the Paulownia Tree
Wang Shifu (1250-1307) Romance of the Western Chamber
Ma Zhiyuan (1250-1321) Autumn in Han Palace
Amir Khusrau (1253-1325) Second Divan
Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350) Essays in Idleness
Shi Nai'an (1296-1372) Water Margin
Ubayd Zakani (1300-1370) Ethics of the Aristocrats
Kakuichi (1300-1371) The Tale of the Heike
Gao Zecheng (1305-1368) Romance of the Lute
Hafez (1329-1380) Divan
Luo Guanzhong (1330-1400) Romance of the Three Kingdoms
Jami (1414-1492) Haft Awrang
Kabir (1440-1518) Songs
Ali-Shir Nava'i (1441-1501) Poetry
Fuzuli (1483-1556) Diwan
Wu Cheng'en (1500-1582) Journey To the West
Baki (1526-1600) Elegy for His Excellency Suleyman Khan
Tulsidas (1532-1623) The Ramcharitmanasa
Tang Xianzu (1550-1616) The Peony Pavilion
Feng Menglong (1574-1645) Stories to Awaken the World
Sa'ib (1601-1677) The Campaign Against Qandahar
Lanling Xiaoxiao Sheng (1610) Jin Ping Mei
Pu Songling (1640-1715) Strange Tales From a Chinese Studio
Matsuo Basho (1644-1694) Narrow Road to the Deep North
Chikamatsu Monzaemon (1653-1725) The Battles of Coxinga
Takeda Izumo (1691-1756) Chushingura
Wu Jingzi (1701-1754) The Scholars
Cao Xueqin (1715-1763) Dream of The Red Chamber
Yuan Mei (1716-1798) Poems
Mir Taqi Mir (1723-1810) Ghazals
Nguyen Gia Thieu (1741-1798) Sorrows of an Abandoned Queen
Ryokan Taigu (1758-1831) Haiku
Shen Fu (1763-1825) Six Records of a Floating Life
Nguyen Du (1766-1820) The Tale of Kieu
Ho Xuan Huong (1772-1822) Water-Bailing
Mirza Ghalib (1797-1869) Ghazals
Bibi Hayati (1853) Poems
Qa'ani (1808-1854) Elegy for Imam Hussein
Liu E (1857-1909) The Travels of Lao Ts'an
Rabindranath Tagore (1861-1941) Gitanjali
Natsume Soseki (1867-1916) Kokoro
Muhammad Iqbal (1877-1938) Wings of Gabriel
Lu Xun (1881-1936) Ah Q - The Real Story
Khalil Gibran (1883-1931) The Prophet
Junichiro Tanizaki (1886-1965) The Makioka Sisters
Ryunosuke Akutagawa (1892-1927) The Hell Screen
Yasunari Kawabata (1899-1972) Snow Country
Sadegh Hedayat (1903-1951) The Blind Owl
R.K. Narayan (1906-2001) The Financial Expert
Qian Zhongshu (1910-1998) Fortress Besieged
Yukio Mishima (1925-1970) The Sea of Fertility
Adunis (1930-) Mihyar of Damascus: His Songs
V.S. Naipaul (1932-) A House For Mr. Biswas
Salman Rushdie (1947-) Midnight's Children
Haruki Murakami (1949-) The Wind Up Bird Chronicle
Orhan Pamuk (1952-) My Name is Red
Khaled Hosseini (1965-) The Kite Runner

However, I have yet to be impressed by works from Africa, Oceana, or the pre-Columbian Americas.

[Seasider]

Racism is not what you think...that is prejudice. Racism is what you do.If you are an employer and refuse to employ someone of a different race to yourself, that is racism.Similarly the landlord who will not let to a person of a different race...the policeman who will question someone for no other reason than his/her race is racist.If the activity is discriminatory it is racist. What you think, as long as you confine it to thinking,is not racist.

[Nick Capozzoli]

If you are telling people that you think western literature is superior to theirs, it is no wonder they call you a racist. They probably wouldn't have called you a racist if you had said that you are interested in western literature and African/Asian literature is not your cup of tea. And really? Do you really think it's a question of superiority rather than preference?

The real problem is that literature is written in language, and there are many languages. It's relatively easy to read and express an opinion about stuff written in languages we understand. Few readers are fluent in more than one language. I, for example, have good reading and speaking proficiency in English, Italian, and German, and can read fairly well in Old and Middle English, and Latin, and can stumble along with classical Greek and modern French and Spanish. For anything else, I have to depend entirely on translations.

[Aylinn]

The real problem is that literature is written in language, and there are many languages. It's relatively easy to read and express an opinion about stuff written in languages we understand. Few readers are fluent in more than one language. I, for example, have good reading and speaking proficiency in English, Italian, and German, and can read fairly well in Old and Middle English, and Latin, and can stumble along with classical Greek and modern French and Spanish. For anything else, I have to depend entirely on translations.
Exactly, that's why he/she? shouldn't say one literature is superior to another.