How to deal with prostitutes?

[osho]

I often think that all of us are manifestly or discreetly accountable for prostitution though going by appearances we are cut off from that supposed promiscuous society. We generally think they are selling their flesh. This is trash. All of us have something to sell, some sell mind others body. We sell what we have. If you want to sell something the first thing is demand. Prostitutes sell well because they are in great demand since their products, that is, their bodies are treasured in society.

I do not want to say too much about this and love to read your thoughts

[Emil Miller]

This is a subject that usually generates a lot of waffle but, setting that aside, prostitution is unavoidable and as long as it's confined to specific areas and not allowed to flourish in places where people don't want it, there is nothing to be done about it.

[osho]

This is a subject that usually generates a lot of waffle but, setting that aside, prostitution is unavoidable and as long as it's confined to specific areas and not allowed to flourish in places where people don't want it, there is nothing to be done about it.

There is something to be done. That is understanding them. Understanding them as humans as you and I are. They are in their professions. And though their profession is degraded and they are looked down on by us they deserve our respect and understanding. All of us have professions and no profession is good or bad and it is only our gradation and classification. By going beyond our value system or method of grading our social classes we can understand their situation better. Looking at them from a social or ethical lens we fail it understand them.

We are in a particular profession not always out of our choice and it is our situation, both socioeconomic and social we follow a particular profession or occupation. For instance if you have no educational background you have to work as blue-collared workers if you are compelled to make a living.

[Emil Miller]

There is something to be done. That is understanding them. Understanding them as humans as you and I are. They are in their professions. And though their profession is degraded and they are looked down on by us they deserve our respect and understanding. All of us have professions and no profession is good or bad and it is only our gradation and classification. By going beyond our value system or method of grading our social classes we can understand their situation better. Looking at them from a social or ethical lens we fail it understand them.

We are in a particular profession not always out of our choice and it is our situation, both socioeconomic and social we follow a particular profession or occupation. For instance if you have no educational background you have to work as blue-collared workers if you are compelled to make a living.

Well if you think that selling your body is the equivalent of selling you car you have a seriously maladjusted set of value judgements.

[osho]

Well if you think that selling your body is the equivalent of selling you car you have a seriously maladjusted set of value judgements.

Emil, you are partly right and it is a maladjustment to equate selling a car with selling one's body.

This is a deal in both ways.

Both of you are sellers. And you can sell what you have. You can sell if you can find a buyer. Sometime your car may have no buyer and sometime my body cannot attract a prospective customer.

We all are dealers, value judgement apart. If you value your commodity, that is your personal judgement. That is not an objective judgement, my friend. If you want an ethical judgement ethics differ from place to place, culture to culture. I know a culture in which a guest is treated with the host's wife. That means the host offers his wife for the night to his guest. We cannot say he is wrong and we are right. It is a lens thru which we observe the phenomenon.

[Alexander III]

This thread reminds me of Baudelaire's prelude to Le Fleur De mal

"If rape and poison, dagger and burning,
Have still not embroidered their pleasant designs
On the banal canvas of our pitiable destinies,
It's because our souls, alas, are not bold enough!"

"It's Ennui! — his eye brimming with spontaneous tear
He dreams of the gallows in the haze of his hookah.
You know him, reader, this delicate monster,
Hypocritical reader, my likeness, my brother!"



And since I enjoy from the benefits of anonymity on the internet - I have frequented prostitutes, as have a considerable number of guys I know. I am all for the legalization of it - I will write up a proper post on the benefits of legalization of prostitution later.

The only problem with it is that many of the participants are forced into it, they are virtual salves from east europe and Africa - These consist the majority of ones you pick up from the street. When I or my friends have used, it has always been properly done, we go online, pick a girl, call, book an appointment and go - or we go to a brothel where all the girls are clearly there by choice - and with what they earn, tis not a bad job.

When it is voluntary and it is not slavery - I don't see what is wrong with prostitution?

[osho]

Slavery has many forms. Even a decent job can be a variant of slavery if you are for microeconomics reasons compelled to carry on for want of a choice.

Prostitution is like that and why not to legalize it. Let us learn to respect them and treat them humanely. The benefit is that they would sanitize themselves before hosting their guests and both themselves and their guests can be safe from vulnerable diseases.

Isn't it a good idea to better their condition?

[OrphanPip]

A naughty part of me just wanted this post to read "You put the money on the night stand and leave."

I have never frequented a prostitute, not that I've never met prostitutes or seen them on the street. I think legalization is certainly the thing to do. I wrote a blog post a few months back about the crack down on the red light district in Montreal, and how I felt it endangered the lives of many of those marginalized by society. In Vancouver, a serial killer managed to kill over 18 prostitutes in the Downtown East Side and feed them to pigs before the police even noticed. Actually, the police never noticed, it only became a problem when workers at the women's outreach center in the neighbourhood went to the media about disappearing prostitutes. Not only does marginalizing prostitutes endanger the lives of women in vulnerable positions (though female trafficking is not as much a problem in Canada as it is in Europe, it is a valid concern as many Asian immigrants end up pressed into this as well), it also makes it difficult for social services to reach out with help to get these women off the streets.

Technically, prostitution is legal in Canada, but running a bawdy house and pimping are illegal. The bawdy house law recently didn't stand up in Ontario during a case brought against a dominatrix, so that law has uncertain status. Brothels, thus, are currently pseudo-legal.

[MarkBastable]

Strictly cash. Or casino chips.

[Vonny]

As Pip said, marginalizing prostitutes endangers their lives.

I'm a hypocrite and I know it. I don't want homeless people and prostitutes forced away. At the same time, I don't like to see them on the streets. Any kind of stray, starving or desperate anything - is too upsetting to see when I can do nothing to help it.

If people want to work as prostitutes, that's fine with me and it could be done online or in a brothel (somewhere away from me), as Alexander mentioned.

[ftil]

I often think that all of us are manifestly or discreetly accountable for prostitution though going by appearances we are cut off from that supposed promiscuous society. We generally think they are selling their flesh. This is trash. All of us have something to sell, some sell mind others body. We sell what we have. If you want to sell something the first thing is demand. Prostitutes sell well because they are in great demand since their products, that is, their bodies are treasured in society.

I do not want to say too much about this and love to read your thoughts

I wouldn’t say that it is trash. I talked to two former prostitutes and I think what they had to say really matter. They both were engaged in drug addiction and to support their addiction they had to be involved in prostitution. They both recovered from addiction, and of course, they stopped being engaged in prostitution. One of them got MA in counseling and has been working with women who are involved in addiction and prostitution for more than 20 years. What she shared about her personal experience as well as experience of her clients is very different what you think. Second woman also quit drug, went to school, and married. She shared her very painful story of abusive treatment and humiliation she received from her "clients". She regretted ever single minute when she was involved in prostitution to support her addiction. I am not saying that there are not women who simply like it. History and literature talks about famous courtesanes but we need to look at the both side of the coin and correct misunderstanding.

[Delta40]

Oh please the high end market of Prostiution in Sydney has better living conditions than the prime minister! What would you like improved? Now street selling and other cultures such as India will stain a girl, making her unclean and unfit for a normal life. Like Emil says, as long as they are practising in specific areas its not a problem for those who don't want to face the reality of human trafficking for profit. These girls were sold by their own parents for Lord sake! Stop talking like ALL prossies have a choice or legalizing it will improve their lives. It will become the law of all men to f uck women and very little else since the levels of prositution are so diverse. The least protected will still be vulnerable to drugs, std's rape violence and murder. Other cultures will engage in gross acts for a high price, including snuffing the child or woman you have just tortured. Legalizing services like this won't control it.

In Mexico (and don't forget the websites that share this info) six year old kids get a steel nail hammered through their forehead and while they're convulsing, the customer f ucks them and after their bodies are dumped. Is this ok as long as it's not in your street Emil?

Osho if your job sucks you can get another. That isn't the case for the low end prossies. They often contract STD's because it isn't up to them to place demands on the men who pay for their services because they can end up getting the crap beat out of them, first by the customer and then by their owner. Many of them go missing. The bullcrap idealisation that legalizing prostitution will somehow protect women and children more is another way of enforcing the god given right of men (from the lowest of the low remember) to screw them.

Prostitution is based on the assumption that men have that right from the get go. They avail themselves of a sexual outlet because to assume they cannot would be laughable, let's face it. Be it woman, man, child, or monkey, it doesn't matter so long as he gets his rocks off in the way he wants. That expectation is there and women from all levels and cultures furnish them from slavery to exploitation. If we except that this god given right is for men alone then there will always be high end women who exploit it so they earn more money than Obama and the people who traffic in children and women for profit get have nicer clothes and food and couldn't care less about the plight of the people they bought as children so long as they get a return on them. As for druggies, well a gal has to earn quick cash to feed it so why not suck a few dicks in an alley for a fix? You think those customers will clean up and and access legalized brothels subject to health checks and government protocols. There's another laugh.

Simple.

[MarkBastable]

Other cultures will engage in gross acts for a high price, including snuffing the child or woman you have just tortured. Legalizing services like this won't control it.

In Mexico (and don't forget the websites that share this info) six year old kids get a steel nail hammered through their forehead and while they're convulsing, the customer f ucks them and after their bodies are dumped.

That's not prostitution, is it? That's murder. So we need to define our terms here. You may say that murder and rape are indivisible from prostitution, but that's a different argument. So - I think we'll all agree that the practices you describe above are indefensible, but if you then suggest that we must therefore be against prostitution, you haven't really closed the debate.

[Vonny]

In Mexico (and don't forget the websites that share this info) six year old kids get a steel nail hammered through their forehead and while they're convulsing, the customer f ucks them and after their bodies are dumped.

I'm putting you on my ignore list. I can't have these images in my head.

I've criticized others on forum, but I've never felt that I simply can't see them or read them at all ...until this, now.


Edit: Oh great, you're on "ignore," but quotes of you still show up. This thing you said is so horrendous. I don't know how I can get it out of my head.

[Alexander III]

I'm putting you on my ignore list. I can't have these images in my head.

I've criticized others on forum, but I've never felt that I simply can't see them or read them at all ...until this, now.


Edit: Oh great, you're on "ignore," but quotes of you still show up. This thing you said is so horrendous. I don't know how I can get it out of my head.

Vonny, you seem like a nice person, and I like you and all, but seriously toughen up a bit.


As for what happens in these third world countries, I am well aware of the horrors. And in general I feel sorry for them. But why should I get all worked up and act like it is a major tragedy in my life. Sure it sucks for them, and I feel sad for a couple of seconds, after that its back to normal, none of it affects me, so why should I overtly care.

My nation helped create those conditions in these countries. So that me and my countrymen could lead better lives. There is only a certain amount of possible wealth in the world. The poorer the third world is the richer the west is. The richer the third world countries the poorer our life standards become. It seem hypocritical to bemoan all this and then complain about our governments and how the west is going to hell, and such.

And also Delta, prostitution is also done by men, not just women. In the west, the escorts, earn a great deal of money for little work (even less work for nymphomaniacs, which several of them are). if they are happy and enjoy it, what wrong with it. They sell their bodies, by their own choice. If they are happy with it, why should anyone interfere.

[Vonny]

Vonny, you seem like a nice person, and I like you and all, but seriously toughen up a bit.in about our governments and how the west is going to hell, and such.


Torture of children or animals gives me nightmares. Nightmares are one thing we have no choice over.

We can choose to be masochistic or not, as I'm reminded by the "blogging" thread. Just about everything else is a choice, but not what happens while we sleep.

[Alexander III]

Torture of children or animals gives me nightmares. Nightmares are one thing we have no choice over.

We can choose to be masochistic or not, as I'm reminded by the "blogging" thread. Just about everything else is a choice, but not what happens while we sleep.

Fair enough, when I was younger the movie The Sleepers traumatized me for a long time.

But, sometimes its better to care less, for your own health. If all of us started caring about all the suffering in the world, and got emotionally involved with all these thoughts, we would go mad. Care less, unless it is you or an intimate of yours, you shouldn't overtly care

[Emil Miller]

I'm putting you on my ignore list. I can't have these images in my head.

I've criticized others on forum, but I've never felt that I simply can't see them or read them at all ...until this, now.


Edit: Oh great, you're on "ignore," but quotes of you still show up. This thing you said is so horrendous. I don't know how I can get it out of my head.

Vonny ignore it, it's probably just a bit of sensationalist rubbish pushed out by a specific section of the media to satiate the appetite of the gullible.

[OrphanPip]

Oh please the high end market of Prostiution in Sydney has better living conditions than the prime minister! What would you like improved? Now street selling and other cultures such as India will stain a girl, making her unclean and unfit for a normal life. Like Emil says, as long as they are practising in specific areas its not a problem for those who don't want to face the reality of human trafficking for profit. These girls were sold by their own parents for Lord sake! Stop talking like ALL prossies have a choice or legalizing it will improve their lives. It will become the law of all men to f uck women and very little else since the levels of prositution are so diverse. The least protected will still be vulnerable to drugs, std's rape violence and murder. Other cultures will engage in gross acts for a high price, including snuffing the child or woman you have just tortured. Legalizing services like this won't control it.

But the high end market is not representative of the majority of prostitution that goes on in Western cities, and they usually aren't those that are harassed into being invisible by the police. My brother owns several properties in our neighbourhood, and a good portion of his female tenants are prostitutes. Certainly, women with the looks, and the youth, to make it as strippers or high end prostitutes aren't suffering as much (though the right to the use of their body as they see fit is still valid), but what does that matter when we should be considering how to best protect those who do not have the privileged working conditions. Legalization does something critical, it makes the prostitution largely visible. Will this eliminate the abuse and trafficking of women? No, but it will help protect some without causing additional harm. It would also help to start a move towards limiting the participation of organized crime in the prostitution market.

[Delta40]

Vonny, I'm not concerned about your sensitive feelings so much as I am about the ludicrousness of legalizing immorality and its gross exploitation just so people can feel better. I don't live in this world to tip toe around you because you might have nightmares.

I don't want either of my daughters working as prossies, either at the low end or the high end because at the end of the day it is them who have the bad reputation, not the clients who pay to be with them. I would be interested in studies of the low end and high end clientele actually.

Sorry that I didn't include men. I have a very close connection to this topic and get on my high horse but it doesn't invalidate my view (I might not be as articulate though!)

I don't like the idea of a law legalizing exploitation of the human body - any body.

[Revolte]

Torture of children or animals gives me nightmares. Nightmares are one thing we have no choice over.

We can choose to be masochistic or not, as I'm reminded by the "blogging" thread. Just about everything else is a choice, but not what happens while we sleep.

I'm still trying to figure out how you can choose to get sexual pleasure from pain or not. How does that work then? How can you choose your turn offs and turn ons?

[ftil]

As for druggies, well a gal has to earn quick cash to feed it so why not suck a few dicks in an alley for a fix? You think those customers will clean up and and access legalized brothels subject to health checks and government protocols. There's another laugh.

Simple.


Hey, are you going to laugh if something similar is going to happen to your daughters? My friend’s daughter OD. She was beautiful and artistic. She was very popular girl at school. She fell in love with a student, drug dealer. I still can’t go overt it. Don’t think that she was raised in low class family. On the contrary, my friend is very successful business woman.
The problem is bigger than we think.

[osho]

I wouldn’t say that it is trash. I talked to two former prostitutes and I think what they had to say really matter. They both were engaged in drug addiction and to support their addiction they had to be involved in prostitution. They both recovered from addiction, and of course, they stopped being engaged in prostitution. One of them got MA in counseling and has been working with women who are involved in addiction and prostitution for more than 20 years. What she shared about her personal experience as well as experience of her clients is very different what you think. Second woman also quit drug, went to school, and married. She shared her very painful story of abusive treatment and humiliation she received from her "clients". She regretted ever single minute when she was involved in prostitution to support her addiction. I am not saying that there are not women who simply like it. History and literature talks about famous courtesanes but we need to look at the both side of the coin and correct misunderstanding.


You are true and there are so many sides of it and there are more reasons than the ones you have put forth. Some people prostitute to support their addictions; some do it to support their financial conditions, their families and education. Some take it strictly as a profession, not an attachment. They have their own family members, husbands and children. There is perfect understanding.

I have seen a community in which 90 % families indulging in prostitution. Their husbands support them and often look for clients. You cannot judge them with your specific educational background. You live by your values and they by theirs. You cannot understand their complexities nor do they can yours. All of us think through our borrowed thoughts colored up by our religious and social values. Tear up the wall of your captivity things will be clear to you soon

[Logos]

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