Paradise Lost

[nathank]

I'm making my way through Paradise Lost and I'm having trouble figuring out what 2 particular lines are referring to:

1019 Or when ULYSSES on the Larbord shunnd
1020 CHARYBDIS, and by th' other whirlpool steard.

I'm trying to figure out what the "other whirlpool" is. Charybdis IS the whirlpool in the Odyssey. Perhaps it's a syntax thing I'm missing.

The 3 Glosses I could find are really of no help:

Hughes: Charybdis is the whirlpool on the larboard side, with the still more frightful Scylla apparently on the other side.

Kerrigan: Charybdis- dreaded whirlpool just opposite Scylla

Dartmouth PL website: Charybdis. Whirlpool opposite Scylla, the more treacherous whirlpool.

The Dartmouth page seems to possibly refer to a "more" treacherous whirlpool, suggesting there are 2?


Thanks for any help,
NathanK

[Emmy Castrol]

Sorry, I can't help as I haven't read Paradise Lost but I have always wanted to.

Anyone interested in doing a stanza by stanza discussion of Paradise Lost? That will motivate me to read it. I have difficulty understanding verse as it requires a bit more concentration.

[PeterL]

Scylla was the other hazard there. Read the Odyssey.

[nathank]

Scylla was the other hazard there. Read the Odyssey.

Right, but Scylla wasn't a whirlpool. So is "shunnd CHARYBDIS, and by th' other whirlpool steard" some kind of poetic image implying that Scylla was "like" another whirlpool? That they "steard" from one literal whirlpool into another metaphorical whirlpool?

[Venerable Bede]

I believe Milton took some liberty with the original story in the Odyssey to make it fit better. That's really the only explanation I can think of since Scylla wasn't a whirlpool as you say.

[PeterL]

Right, but Scylla wasn't a whirlpool. So is "shunnd CHARYBDIS, and by th' other whirlpool steard" some kind of poetic image implying that Scylla was "like" another whirlpool? That they "steard" from one literal whirlpool into another metaphorical whirlpool?

Scylla and Charybdis are a pair of hazards, that was originally a sea monster, while the other was a whirlpool is of no consequence. Milton ws describing someone steering between two great perils, steering between Scylla and Charybdis. Scylla simply became a metaphorical whirlpool in those lines.

[AJ Culpepper]

Scylla and Charybdis are a pair of hazards, that was originally a sea monster, while the other was a whirlpool is of no consequence. Milton ws describing someone steering between two great perils, steering between Scylla and Charybdis. Scylla simply became a metaphorical whirlpool in those lines.

While I agree, personally I always felt Milton was taking it one step further in that not only were they both hazards but hazards which will pull one down and in. An imagery of being drawn into murderous depths, if you will.

[nathank]

Wow, those are all fantastic interpretations! They really give me something to chew on for that section.

Wouldn't it be fascinating if we could go back in time and ask long dead authors what THEY were trying to do?

Thanks again,
NathanK

[mal4mac]

Wikipedia says:

"Scylla and Charybdis were mythical sea monsters noted by Homer... Scylla was rationalized as a rock shoal ... and Charybdis was a whirlpool ..."

Maybe Milton thought - why not rationalize Scylla as another whirlpool? Makes the line scan better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Between_Scylla_and_Charybdis

[AJ Culpepper]

Wouldn't it be fascinating if we could go back in time and ask long dead authors what THEY were trying to do?

I think we'd find out that most of the time we were WAY off in our interpretations from what the authors themselves were trying to relate.

[nathank]

I think we'd find out that most of the time we were WAY off in our interpretations from what the authors themselves were trying to relate.

Undoubtedly! I find it almost comical that some people are so insistent regarding "their" interpretations.

[AJ Culpepper]

Undoubtedly! I find it almost comical that some people are so insistent regarding "their" interpretations.

As do I. Good to know I'm not alone in that regard. :)

[ralfyman]

You're right! There's supposed to be only one whirlpool.