Daily puzzles/problems.

[MarkBastable]

Yep. Off you go.

[prendrelemick]

[65 108 97 115 44] [112 111 111 114] [89 111 114 105 99 107 33] [73] [107 110 101 119] [104 105 109 44] [72 111 114 97 116 105 111 46]



ps. Those square brackets are not part of the message, I can't seem to get spacing without them.

[prendrelemick]

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k78/prendrelemick/imagesCAG8VRJ3.jpg

[MarkBastable]

I was about to apply some concentration to this but the sight of Arthur Askey - the least funny and most irritating little man ever to stand on stage* - put me right off.



*With the exception of Norman Wisdom.

[Silas Thorne]

During the very short time it's going to take them to work that out, perhaps the rest of us can take another look at this review of Green Eggs and Ham, and consider the kind of superbly screwed-up mindset that produced it.

Green Eggs and Ham

The "hero" of this tale spends the entirety of the book trying to force green eggs and ham upon a nameless skeptic. The "villain" turns down the offer several times, but the hero refuses to respect the man's right to say no, and badgers him incessantly until he caves under the pressure.

What disgusts me most about the end of the story is that once the man gives in, he is simply another addition to a pool of addicts. The author's tragic allegory for the rising drug use among young people that plagued his time period is brilliant, but certainly not appropriate for young children. Sam is too easily twisted to become a hero, opening the antagonist's mind to new things, rather than a metaphor for Satan as I believe was originally intended.

Oh dear! :eek:There's too much reading of personal prejudices into this. I thought the whole point was to encourage people not to be closeminded about things. The writer clearly hasn't tried any Green Eggs and Ham. Maybe he/she should.

[billl]

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k78/prendrelemick/imagesCAG8VRJ3.jpg

I've been working on this one, but just fiddling with the substitution cipher angle. I checked this guy's tunes on the web, and it was a nice break. Sounds like he had fun doing those songs. Was he maybe also beating the commies with cryptology, between the puns and zingers on those albums? A national hero? Or is he (much less dramatically) perhaps the source for the text of this encoded message or something?

[prendrelemick]

I'm sorry I put you through that billl.



All I shall say at this point is that it sounds like he should know the answer.

[billl]

Hah, it came to me suddenly as I arrived home and sat down. I saw "Key" in the guy's name, and firgured, "Ask key", so this guy knows, I would ask him, hmm....

Nope, ASCII (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascii#ASCII_printable_characters), is the clue, thanks. (I actually had solved for "poor" already via substitution...)


"Alas, poor Yorick! I know him, Horatio."

[prendrelemick]

That's right billl. I'm always relieved when someone gets my clues, it shows I'm not totally odd.

[billl]

Yeah, I know, it can sort of feel like one is being rude when no one gets it right away.

NEXT ONE:

I was 8 when Amy was born.
Now, I am twice as old as Amy, and half as old as my Brother Bob.

How old was Bob when Amy was born?

[Scheherazade]

24?



__________________

[MarkBastable]

Eight years ago Bob was 24.

[MarkBastable]

Yeah, I know, it can sort of feel like one is being rude when no one gets it right away.



I always think it's a bit rude if one does get it right away. That Scheherezade, for instance, zipping in there with her '24?' I mean, breathtakingly rude.

[billl]

Yes, 24 is it. Sher was wise to save the 16 minutes by typing just the number.

[Scheherazade]

Yay! Much obliged that you gentlemen leave the less challenging ones for me to "solve"! :willy_nilly:


A quick one:

At a cafe, the first 15 customers spend an average of £3 each. After a further 30 customers, the average amount spent rises to £9. What is the average spending by the last 30 customers only?

[MarkBastable]

yay! Much obliged that you gentlemen leave the less challenging ones for me to "solve"! :willy_nilly:


A quick one:

At a cafe, the first 15 customers spend an average of £3 each. After a further 30 customers, the average amount spent rises to £9. What is the average spending by the last 30 customers only?

...18?

[Scheherazade]

...18?Not the answer I have come up with.

[billl]

First 15 customers spend = £3 x 15 = £45

Average for all 45 customers = (£45 + ?)/ 45 = £9
? = total spent by last 30 customers = 8 x 45 = £360 [? = (8 x 45) because (45 + 8 x 45) is the same as (9 x 45)]

average spent by last 30 customers = £360 / 30 = £12

[MarkBastable]

First 15 customers spend = £3 x 15 = £45

Average for all 45 customers = (£45 + ?)/ 45 = £9
? = total spent by last 30 customers = 8 x 45 = £360 [? = (8 x 45) because (45 + 8 x 45) is the same as (9 x 45)]

average spent by last 30 customers = £360 / 30 = £12


Yeah, that's exactly how I did it, except that at the last stage I divided 360 by 30 and got 18. Algebra I can do. Mental arithmetic - Im useless.

[MarkBastable]

Not the answer I have come up with.

Incidentally, 'wrong' would have done.

[billl]

It's having shillings part of your currency that created these bad habits.




Tuna Delight


There are four hungry kittens in an 80cm x 80cm kitten cage


Each kitten can eat 100 ml of Tuna Delight for lunch, before getting full.
There are two food bowls, each having a circumference of about 30 cm.
A kitten's paw can absorb/accumulate up to 10 ml of Tuna Delight.
A kitten's head has a "diameter" of roughly 6 cm.
Kittens generally don't walk backwards.

Assuming the kittens are in every way as predictable as robots, how can one easily use the minimum amount of Tuna Delight to ensure the proper feeding and filling of the kittens, and what is that minimum amount?

EDIT: The puzzle has been slightly altered and has been re-expressed in post #1275, sorry...

[prendrelemick]

Yeah, that's exactly how I did it, except that at the last stage I divided 360 by 30 and got 18. Algebra I can do. Mental arithmetic - Im useless.



I looked at the question and did nothing, knowing it had billl written all over it.

[MarkBastable]

Tuna Delight


There are four hungry kittens in an 80cm x 80cm kitten cage


Each kitten can eat 100 ml of Tuna Delight for lunch, before getting full.
There are two food bowls, each having a circumference of about 30 cm.
A kitten's paw can absorb/accumulate up to 10 ml of Tuna Delight.
A kitten's head has a "diameter" of roughly 6 cm.
Kittens generally don't walk backwards.

Assuming the kittens are in every way as predictable as robots, how can one easily use the minimum amount of Tuna Delight to ensure the proper feeding and filling of the kittens, and what is that minimum amount?


Yep - this is another one to leave to bill.

Bill! Bi-ill! BI.....! ...oh. Hang on....

Bugger.

[prendrelemick]

when feeding livestock a good rule is to give them only what they can clean up in 15 minutes.

However I don't seem to understand this problem. You state each kitten can eat 100ml of food, then ask how much food is needed for 4 of them, - or have I missed something?

[billl]

when feeding livestock a good rule is to give them only what they can clean up in 15 minutes.

However I don't seem to understand this problem. You state each kitten can eat 100ml of food, then ask how much food is needed for 4 of them, - or have I missed something?

Urgh, you're right. I was trying to control the parameters in order to avoid a certain problem, but ended up removing most of "the puzzle" from the puzzle. Let's say that the goal is to give them 100 ml each, but the kittens won't necessarily be full if they have that much. I'll repost with this slight adjustment (only the first criterion is affected).

Four hungry kittens, and we want each to get 100 ml, although each would eat more if they could... (Also, I'm willing to be flexible with the answer if a good explanation can be given.)




Tuna Delight


There are four hungry kittens in an 80cm x 80cm kitten cage


Each kitten should eat about 100 ml of Tuna Delight for lunch.
There are two food bowls, each having a circumference of about 30 cm.
A kitten's paw can absorb/accumulate up to 10 ml of Tuna Delight.
A kitten's head has a "diameter" of roughly 6 cm.
Kittens generally don't walk backwards.

Assuming the kittens are in every way as predictable as robots, how can one easily use the minimum amount of Tuna Delight to ensure the proper feeding and filling of the kittens, and what is that minimum amount?

[prendrelemick]

My thoughts so far.

The question seems to be HOW to feed the kittens ( I presume) so they all get exactly 100ml of Tuna.

The easiest way would be to take two out untill the first two have finished their 100ml, allowing them a bowl each at opposite corners of the cage. then swop the kittens over.

Allowing two kittens per bowl INSIDE the cage would not ensure fairness and is there enough room anyway?

Perhaps the question is hinting that you place the bowls OUTSIDE the cage and let the kittens reach through the mesh and get 10ml at a time.

However, this is making assumptions about the size of kittens heads and paws in relation to the cage mesh. Also this is a billl question, so where's the maths? Should we be working out how many 6cm circles fit in a 30 cm circle?

[billl]

My thoughts so far.

The question seems to be HOW to feed the kittens ( I presume) so they all get exactly 100ml of Tuna.

The easiest way would be to take two out untill the first two have finished their 100ml, allowing them a bowl each at opposite corners of the cage. then swop the kittens over.

Allowing two kittens per bowl INSIDE the cage would not ensure fairness and is there enough room anyway?

Perhaps the question is hinting that you place the bowls OUTSIDE the cage and let the kittens reach through the mesh and get 10ml at a time.

However, this is making assumptions about the size of kittens heads and paws in relation to the cage mesh. Also this is a billl question, so where's the maths? Should we be working out how many 6cm circles fit in a 30 cm circle?

Great job! You got it, Mick, just as I expected you might. Put the bowls at opposite ends, and guide a pair of kittens to each bowl. They'll each be able (due to the size of their heads and the bowl) to get access to the food in their bowl, but they won't get any more than just their front paws in the food while they're eating. Of course, the possibility of paws accumulating food means we have to account for the front paws of each kitten soaking up 10ml each, so we need 480ml of tuna divided evenly between two bowls, with the bowls set in opposite corners.

Your other ideas about removing kittens and feeding individually are, of course, even better--butrequires another cage or the kittens being held, or some safe way to keep them contained and safe, which I hadn't considered.

Well, there we are. I wanted to try and create something particularly cute to contemplate, but the math and geometric aspects were maybe not as crisply interlocking and ingenious as the puzzle otherwise deserved. Still, its gotten all the attention it probably should in rather short order, so no harm done. Sometimes, that's all we ask when the puzzle spotlight steers suddenly into our face.

[prendrelemick]

Hang on a minute, How did I get it, I'm still confused.

[MarkBastable]

Hang on a minute, How did I get it, I'm still confused.

Thank God for that - it's not often that I understand neither the question nor the answer.

I think bill's moved onto a higher plane.

[billl]

Hang on a minute, How did I get it, I'm still confused.

You did suggest a viable solution (which was out of the bounds I had been considering, but not unreasonably so), and suggested (without realizing it) that an important element (two kittens per bowl) of my imagined solution would be a poor way to maximize efficiency and fairness.

It's a good point, esp. if one of the kittens is bigger, or there's some health issue, etc., but I was thinking in terms of a situation where the kittens were roughly competitive and had enough room to get their fill. But, even with my attention to head size and bowl size, it remains the case that even the slightest edge in initial positioning could result in a less than ideal distribution of the Tuna Delight.

In awarding your near-comprehensive analysis the victory, I thought I might try to sweep the whole thing under the rug with my last post, shoe-horning on a crown made of my own solution, intending to convey a spirit of jest and exasperation, but instead ratcheting the disaster up a little more.

[prendrelemick]

Listen, serving up disasters is what I do best.


[WTDR] [DIAA] [YLIY]

[HMEL] [YSIR] [OINE]

[AYAA] [DDNE] UVGT]

[prendrelemick]

Not a substitution cypher or a maths based encryption. A very simple puzzle disguised to look complicated.

[Scheherazade]

Incidentally, 'wrong' would have done.Because I was not given an answer but had only the solution I had reached myself (12), I could not say it was wrong.


Listen, serving up disasters is what I do best.


[WTDR] [DIAA] [YLIY]

[HMEL] [YSIR] [OINE]

[AYAA] [DDNE] UVGT]Would figuring out what comes in groups of four help?

[prendrelemick]

No. I suspect I have bamboozled all your Machiavellian minds with simplicity.

[billl]

Well, the clues helped A LOT. Top to bottom, left to right.

"what my dear lady disdain are you living yet"

Turns out this is a quote from my favorite of Shakespeare's plays (although I've seen it end "...yet living?" in my online search.) I'll have to read that again sometime soon.

I'll have another puzzle up in 8-12 hours, unless someone else has something they want to put up.

[prendrelemick]

Yup! thats right. Born out of despiration after I was declared sucessfull over those kittens. I know its a mis-quote but 'are-you-yet' fell all in a row top to bottom, and looked so obvious I changed them round (sorry Will.)

[billl]

Here's a riddle disguised as a terrible poem.

Names found in when school is out
Spring in the eastern mountains
And the bad side of honey
Make which force repel law's flout?

[billl]

Since there's some rather-less-than-teenage Brits here, I'd thought this latest riddle might have had a ghost of a chance as given, but I wasn't too optimistic. No surprise, another installment is appropriate. In case it isn't clear, the first three lines are a trio of clues (names), adding up to the fourth.

[billl]

While stalking might appear to not be as terribly concerning as it ought to, prostitution and sex with a minor are both clearly considered in a negative light by the subject of this riddle.

[prendrelemick]

I'm loving these clues.



Must try and solve the riddle though.

[billl]

Rio Rio Rioyo

[billl]

BONUS CLUE

Some of the more arresting ideas of Arthur Koestler and Carl Jung inhabited the precincts of this riddle's production.

[billl]

Rather than albums of possible suspicious persons, they produced albums with possibly suspicious titles.

[kasie]

Line 1 - Alice Cooper??

Line 2 - Aaron Copeland??

But as for the rest - ?? something to do with Humbert Humbert??

I think you've done it, billl - produced one that has stumped us all!

[prendrelemick]

Here's a riddle disguised as a terrible poem.

Names found in when school is out
Spring in the eastern mountains
And the bad side of honey
Make which force repel law's flout?



There's something Michaely Jacksonish in there perhaps?

[billl]

kasie is right both times! (line one and line two are correct)

Mick is definitely on the beat! (correct time frame)


EDIT: (Alice Cooper is not right, but I had Alice Cooper in mind... The clue there, again, is "...when school is out...")

[papayahed]

The bad side of honey are bees right?

[MarkBastable]

It's The Police.

Summer is when school's out - Andy Summers.
Kasie got Copeland - Stewart being the drummer.
And the bad side of honey will be the Sting.

[billl]

That's right.

Took a while, but I noticed some people were gone for a while...

[MarkBastable]

A pro. xf abf ryd.p bam. ,rgne om.nn ao o,..yv

[MarkBastable]

Would y'all like a clue?

[billl]

I've just been taking my sweet time, trying out substitutions now and then. Perfectly content, no complaints here. Though, I guess I wouldn't mind knowing if it weren't a substitution cipher.

[MarkBastable]

I've just been taking my sweet time, trying out substitutions now and then. Perfectly content, no complaints here. Though, I guess I wouldn't mind knowing if it weren't a substitution cipher.


It is, yeah. Well, if I understand what a substitution cipher is. If it means, you can replace one character with another character, you just have to work out the mapping - then, yes, that's exactly what it is.

[MarkBastable]

A clue (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOX15agZ3-0&feature=fvst)....

[prendrelemick]

thoughts so far.

Thanks for the clue, is it ;-

"Ah allus thought it wor a bloody long way t' go forra loaf o' bread."

I am also working on the letter R being substituted for J as in Dvorak.

[prendrelemick]

Or better still, substitute J for D as there is a silent D and a non existant J in Dvorak.

[MarkBastable]

Nah, none of those. I thought someone might go for the Hovis thing, but if it were right, it'd've been a bit mean of me to do that to the nonBrits.

My previous substitution puzzles, you'll notice, have had to do not with the alphabet per se, but with the interface mechanism.

[MarkBastable]

Give up? Another clue? Completely lost interest?

[kasie]

Just confused, Mark - if this is one of those puzzles using language particular to some kind of computing, then I'm lost.

[MarkBastable]

Another clue.... (http://home.earthlink.net/~dcrehr/firsttw.html)

I'll kill this Tuesday, if it remains unattempted.

[prendrelemick]

To be honest, I've been attempting it all week - with the qwerty keyboard as a starting point.

[MarkBastable]

To be honest, I've been attempting it all week - with the qwerty keyboard as a starting point.

Well, it is a good starting point.

[MarkBastable]

Okay - the last clue.


PYFGCRL

[kasie]

I can make the first few letters say 'A quiz...' but then the same system doesn't seem to make much sense of the rest.

[prendrelemick]

Mm, I had that, but then disregarded it. Perhaps there is a "second movement"? there's more to do yet.

[prendrelemick]

Ah, thankyou Google! Apparently there is a Dvorak keyboard with the keys set out differently.

[MarkBastable]

Yep - the Dvorak keyboard is supposed to be more ergonomic and easier to use. There's no proof that this is the case.

Anyway, I typed qwerty strokes on a Dvorak keyboard. In Windows, you can convert your keyboard to Dvorak in about five minutes. Then it would take you about four hours to move the little plastic keys around.

So what did I type?

[prendrelemick]

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.



After weeks of trying different lines of symmetry, mirrors and cyphers!

[MarkBastable]

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.



After weeks of trying different lines of symmetry, mirrors and cyphers!

Yes, sorry about that. Anyway - off you go.

[prendrelemick]

I apologise for the long pre-amble to this one. It concerns something that happened while I was on holiday in Noth Devon this summer.

The Guest House we stayed in was very nice, with solicitious hosts and comfortable rooms. Our room had a big double bed, two large sash windows with views of the 2 acre garden. It also had a en-suite bathroom, fitted wardrobes, bedside tables, a digital alarm clock, tiffany style lamps, colour TV etc... Everything you could want. Then there were the personal touches, like a chocolate on the pillow, a carafe of water by the bed, scented soaps and matching towels.

The first morning , Mrs P was in the shower and I was laid on the bed reading my book, waiting to go down for breakfast which we had ordered for 8:30. I glanced across to the clock on the opposite bedside table and saw it was 8:50 already. I shouted for the wife to hurry up and ran downstairs, hoping the porridge would still be warm. The landlady looked surprised to see me and said breakfast would not be ready for another 20 minutes!

Why not?

[MarkBastable]

It was the second of August. It was showing you the date, and it was upside down.



I apologise for the long pre-amble to this one. It concerns something that happened while I was on holiday in Noth Devon this summer.

The Guest House we stayed in was very nice, with solicitious hosts and comfortable rooms. Our room had a big double bed, two large sash windows with views of the 2 acre garden. It also had a en-suite bathroom, fitted wardrobes, bedside tables, a digital alarm clock, tiffany style lamps, colour TV etc... Everything you could want. Then there were the personal touches, like a chocolate on the pillow, a carafe of water by the bed, scented soaps and matching towels.

The first morning , Mrs P was in the shower and I was laid on the bed reading my book, waiting to go down for breakfast which we had ordered for 8:30. I glanced across to the clock on the opposite bedside table and saw it was 8:50 already. I shouted for the wife to hurry up and ran downstairs, hoping the porridge would still be warm. The landlady looked surprised to see me and said breakfast would not be ready for another 20 minutes!

Why not?

[prendrelemick]

nope.

[MarkBastable]

Works though.

[NikolaiI]

She took the 8:30 time as the time to start cooking?

[prendrelemick]

Mark: It would work, and you are thinking on the right lines, but still nope.



Nickoli: Nope. I was the one who had made a mistake.





.

[Silas Thorne]

Did you pull out the plug for the alarm clock the night before to plug in the other bedside lamp, and then your wife plugged it in again in the morning when she went to go in the shower?

[prendrelemick]

Nope.

It was a combination of items and circumstances that fooled me.

[Calidore]

Does England cover more than one time zone? Here in the U.S., it's not uncommon to forget to reset one's watch when traveling. Was it actually 7:50?

[prendrelemick]

No, we are all on British Summer Time over here.

The discription of the room is significant.

[NikolaiI]

Since you were laying on your back to read, when you looked at the clock, it was upside down and you saw 8:05 as 8:50. If you'd looked longer you might have seen the 8 was on the wrong side of the 50, but being so early, and perhaps not being completely used to digital clocks, you reacted before you could see your mistake.

[Scheherazade]

Is a mirror involved? Or a reflection on windows?

[prendrelemick]

NickolI:
I did just glance at the clock, where as a longer look would have stopped me making a mistake. But still not right yet.

Scher:
Yours is the closest guess yet. Think refraction, not reflection.

[MarkBastable]

You were seeing it through the glass of the lamp. Or the carafe of water. But either way, something that inverted the image.

[billl]

Let's imagine that the next smiley represents the clock :out:

It is sitting next to the right side/wife's side of the bed and (this would be important) it is facing the foot of the bed.

Since Mick is in bed still, lying or sitting on the left side, somewhat near the headboard, he has a poor angle at the face of the clock.

:seeya: ................... :out:

Mick _ <--bed--> _ clock

Well, if the clock (on the right) has a plastic domed cover for the clock face, then the curvature of the plastic dome would cause the clock-hands to bulge/swell up because of refraction. Of course, Mick is positioned higher than the clock, and so the swelling is more pronounced in regards to the second hand which is pointing upwards at the "2" on the clock dial than it is in regards to the hour hand which is near the "8". The refraction causes the minute hand to (seemingly) swell and pull over towards Mick, in the direction of the "10" on the clock-face. But Mick can't see the numbers, he just sees that the hand is (apparently) pointing where the "10" would be. (in the crazy green smiley, the second-hand should be aimed at the little eye, but it will be pulled into the bulging left side of the clock face cover.)

NOTE: This is a wild guess, and quite possibly inconsistent with real physics/optics.

[MarkBastable]

Well, if the clock (on the right) has a plastic domed cover for the clock face, then the curvature of the plastic dome would cause the clock-hands to bulge/swell up because of refraction. Of course, Mick is positioned higher than the clock, and so the swelling is more pronounced in regards to the second hand which is pointing upwards at the "2" on the clock dial than it is in regards to the hour hand which is near the "8". The refraction causes the minute hand to (seemingly) swell and pull over towards Mick, in the direction of the "10" on the clock-face. But Mick can't see the numbers, he just sees that the hand is (apparently) pointing where the "10" would be. (in the crazy green smiley, the second-hand should be aimed at the little eye, but it will be pulled into the bulging left side of the clock face cover.)

NOTE: This is a wild guess, and quite possibly inconsistent with real physics/optics.

Er....



It also had a en-suite bathroom, fitted wardrobes, bedside tables, a digital alarm clock...

[billl]

Oops, thanks.

Still, time well-spent.

[prendrelemick]

Mark has it.

I saw the clock partially through the carafe of water. I saw the 8 normally, but the 05 through the water bottle and it appeared as 50.

I was wearing my reading glasses and it was just a glance, I don't know if the 5 was the wrong way round, but it fooled me.

[billl]

Maybe the "1" in "8:10" got warped by the bulge in the center of the carafe, and therefore looked like a "5"? The "8" might go unaffected, but I'm thinking the "0" might end up looking like an "8" if it went through the same process of refraction, though...



EDIT: OK, Mark's solution makes sense -- but how come it didn't look like "508" ? Only half was covered/affected by the carafe, I guess...

[prendrelemick]

Yes thats what happened (Only half was affected) but I reckoned mark had broken the back of the problem. I shall be recreating the scenario in our kitchen in a mimute.

[kasie]

And just how did you explain to (the longsuffering) Mrs Mick why you were lying on the kitchen floor looking at the clock through a glass of water? Hmmm?? On a Sunday morning???

[MarkBastable]

Okay - I'll come up with something shortly.

[prendrelemick]

And just how did you explain to (the longsuffering) Mrs Mick why you were lying on the kitchen floor looking at the clock through a glass of water? Hmmm?? On a Sunday morning???


That's quite normal behavior isn'it? :smilewinkgrin:

From my research I think the 5 was the wrong way round, and the lining up of clock, glass and eye has to be exact.



Apologies to billl, I may have conceded the puzzle to mark a bit too soon, before all details were in.

[MarkBastable]

Major Edit at 15:30 BST - Apologies

----------------------------------------------

I went to a Direct Grant Grammar School which - for the non-Brits here - was a little backwater of the state education system in which bright and able working-class kids could be offered a classical academic education without having to cough up for it. It is because of this education that I have read enough Tolstoy to know that I can live without him.

Due to some political positioning that was beyond me even at the time, the right-wing party in the UK was in favour of grammar schools and the left-wing was against them. You'd think it'd've been the other way round. But this sympathy from the right meant that on two separate occasions the Tory education minister acted as patronising handshaker at our annual Prizegiving Day. Her name was Margaret Thatcher. So, as a teenager, I had plenty of opportunity to assassinate her, had I known what she was going to do to the country a few years later.

Towards the end of my school career, there was talk of raising money to buy some piece of equipment for the science lab. I dunno what - I was a Modern Languages specialist. But I know we had to raise five hundred pounds, and I also know that it was my mate Fizz - a physicist, chemist and entrepreneurial purveyor of hallucinogens synthesized in the lab during lunch - who came up with the idea of auctioning Mrs Thatcher's 'thank you for having me' letter. Our English teacher took the letter to be valued by auctioneers in Mayfair and, disappointingly, they reckoned it'd raise about £150, of which they'd be very happy to take ten per cent commission.

Stick with me. This is all going somewhere.

My brilliant idea was to organise a school sweepstake on how much the letter would sell for at auction. There were eight hundred boys in the school (yes, boys only. I didn't talk to an actual girl till I was about thirty.) so if we could get each of them to part with 25p (this was when 25p was 25p. And it was not long after it was five bob.) we'd add another two hundred quid to the total. We needed to offer a prize, and we didn't want to part with the takings, so we persuaded the headmaster that one Friday the winning boy could choose the music that was played over the PA as we walked into assembly. (Which, it turned out, was the first time that most people in my school - including the headmaster - ever heard Star***ker, by the Rolling Stones.)

On the day of the auction, our English teacher attended the saleroom in town. The idea was that he would call us after the auction and tell us what the letter went for. As there was so much interest around the school, we were going to put the realised sale price up on the digital display in the window of the main hall, that was usually used to show how many days the school had gone without any injury occuring. (Or a drug-bust happening. Something like that.)

However, that very morning some idiot first-former swinging from the stage curtains in imitation of Tarzan knocked over a scenery flat that toppled off the stage and took out the digital display completely.

"Great," I said, kicking the diminutive culprit up the steps to the lighting gantry. "Now what?"

"Coincidentally," Fizz said, nodding at the shattered bits of the digital display, "I made one of those last term. It's still in the physics lab."

"Well, go and get it!" I told him, punting the first-former over the railing and into Row B.

Fizz's contraption was a board about two feet by one, with wires all over the back of it. But it would work, and having punched in the right number on the keypad Fizz had cannibalised from a broken calculator, we could hang the board in the window where the 'official' one used to be.

Fizz was sitting with it on his lap as we waited for the English teacher to call in the auction sale price. He was fiddling. Suddenly, the phone rang. I leapt up.

"Uh-oh," Fizz said, looking at the board. "We have a problem."

"What?"

"Not all the lights work. Look."

As I picked up the phone, I glanced across at the board, into which Fizz had punched 888 - but it didn't say that.

As Fizz feared, some of the components were kaput. What I saw was this.

http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq193/markbastable/AuctionBet-1.jpg

"It could take days to mend it," Fizz said.

"Hi, Sir," I said into the phone. "How did the sale go? I hope you had better luck than we're having. What did it sell for?"

It turned out that I was wrong about our luck - Fizz and I were very lucky indeed. The sale price of Margaret Thatcher's letter just happened to be the largest three-figure number we could display on Fizz's faulty read-out machine...

[prendrelemick]

792..

[billl]

Same guess.

The write-up was really fantastic, I guess you just couldn't wait for our highly-attuned digital clock puzzle instincts to dull a bit over time...

[MarkBastable]

Yeah. I knew it was too easy. I just felt like writing it during lunch.

What number does Fizz punch in?

And given that his real name was Paul Henry Isley, why did we call him Fizz?

[NikolaiI]

Hm I may be missing something but I don't see how you can get that number, even by turning it upside down. My bid is 261 - oh, to say it correctly, 261 is the number Fizz punched in..

[edit] because the first letter in each of his first name, followed by the first 2 of his last name, spell Phis, and you spelled it Fizz.

[MarkBastable]

Hm I may be missing something but I don't see how you can get that number, even by turning it upside down. My bid is 261 - oh, to say it correctly, 261 is the number Fizz punched in..

[edit] because the first letter in each of his first name, followed by the first 2 of his last name, spell Phis, and you spelled it Fizz.

Nope, on the number punched in.

Yes - first ever day of school he turned up with a satchel, on which his parents has stuck little gold letters above the clasp that read:

PHISLEY

[NikolaiI]

Oh, 241.

[prendrelemick]

264 is what NickoliI meant I think.

[MarkBastable]

Can't see 264 working either. Or 241.

Oh, hang on.....


...damn - screwed up.


Mick, how did you get your answer? I mean, I think it's right, but I also think I set it up wrong. And if I did, it can't be right.

In the right-hand figure, the top bar should be red, and the bottom right upright should be black.

[NikolaiI]

That makes things different, then, doesn't it? Actually I see the 792 now. But I guess it does depend on whether you are going to require 6 of 7 bars for a 9 or 6, or just 5 bars. My first guess 261 was based on using 5 bars, but then I checked my microwave and saw it uses 6 bars for 9's and 6's. But then again, you could say it doesn't have to be perfect in this case, as it isn't a terribly important issue.

Anyway ... my eyes have been opened. My new answer is 742. No - 772! my Final answer. Did I get it right?

Yep 772 is what I'm going with - oh and on second thought, I think your change doesn't affect the answer, if I understand it correctly - and if 6's and 9's both use 6 bars.

[billl]

I turned my head upside down (relative to the screen) just now, and 792 works. (9 having five bars)

[billl]

Here's an image from the first page of results after searching google images for "digital clock" (from my computer):

http://www.pelnet.co.uk/elect/img/clock.jpg

Not every image includes a clock showing the number 9, but still, it is notable that in the next 9 pages of results, I found no other examples of a 9 made from only 5 bars. The six-bar version is a favorite by more than 10 to 1, I'd say. Either kind would work, though, if schoolboy Mark had to display the number he heard on the phone.

[MarkBastable]

So, with my correction of my stupid error, 266 gives you 792, using the 5-bar 9 and 6.

[NikolaiI]

Prendrelemick wins!

[prendrelemick]

No, I think you win Nicolaii because I'm just confused, we'll call the Fizz question a tie breaker. So your go:yesnod:

[NikolaiI]

Okay - this regards card counting in Blackjack and the problem is from "Blackjack Dealer Error" by ETFan...


...
But whatever dealer you choose, if you sit there for thirty minutes and don't observe a single error in any player's favor, you're at the wrong table. Professorial types may be surprised to learn this factor is even more important than penetration.

If you're in an unfamiliar casino, you may be wondering just how to tell whether a dealer has been working there for three months or three years. There's a less obvious way to ask besides just coming out with "How long have you worked here?" (although there's no law against asking it like that). However, it involves telling a little white lie. I'll leave it to you to figure out, and to decide whether white lies fall within your moral calculus.
...

[prendrelemick]

I would say - Ey up Ralph, how are you? How long has it been? Must be three years, 'cause that was the last time I was in here!

[togre]

I think something like that would work, but knowing this is a riddle I suspect that might be too simple or vague. If not, I'll be mad that I didn't suggest it :)

[NikolaiI]

I would say - Ey up Ralph, how are you? How long has it been? Must be three years, 'cause that was the last time I was in here!

Good guess, but not quite.

[MarkBastable]

I'm getting nowhere with this. Would it help to know why you'd want to know?

[Scheherazade]

Introduce yourself as a company director and claim people will receive bonuses depending on their time with the casino?

[MarkBastable]

I'd be amazed if there were not a corporate edict against directors playing in their own casino.

[cafolini]

I'd be amazed if there were not a corporate edict against directors playing in their own casino.

It's even tacit.

[Scheherazade]

He does not have to say that he is there to play. Nik said a white lie was involved so he can pretend to be someone to interview the dealers.

Just a jab in the dark. Not sure if this is any different from asking how long they have been working there and I did not understand the first paragraph of Nik's post either, anyhow.

[NikolaiI]

I'm getting nowhere with this. Would it help to know why you'd want to know?


He does not have to say that he is there to play. Nik said a white lie was involved so he can pretend to be someone to interview the dealers.

Just a jab in the dark. Not sure if this is any different from asking how long they have been working there and I did not understand the first paragraph of Nik's post either, anyhow.

Perhaps I should have given more information. Here's a link to the source article.

http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/Dealer_Error.htm


Introduce yourself as a company director and claim people will receive bonuses depending on their time with the casino?

I fear I didn't give enough information to begin with. This suggestion would probably attract too much attention.

I should have perhaps said that in this hypothetical problem, you are a skilled advantage player.

[Scheherazade]

Is it possible to guess how many games a dealer deals a day? Or a month?

Maybe jokingly we could ask how many games they dealt in their present position...

Again, jabbing just to revive the thread.

[NikolaiI]

Well, none of those involve telling a white lie.

Alright, how about a hint?

Think simple.

[prendrelemick]

Casino's don't mind naive would-be countdowners trying their moves, so an experienced dealer might hint he is new just to get you to sit down. He might be employing white lies too.

The problem is how to find out how long the dealer has been dealing, without him knowing you're doing it (Impossible if he is aware.) So you have to get him into a conversation about the past at the casino.

you could say something like - Is Old Nick still around? or what's Gloria doing these days? Or if that's a bit direct, start with "Those pit bosses get younger and younger"- anything to do with the passage of time. You could say- I once saw 3 pontoons in the same deal, but then I suppose you've seen plenty in your time." You could say,- "You don't look old enough to be a dealer".

If they don't rise to any conversation, change tables.

[NikolaiI]

Good answers and guesses, Prendrel, but you still haven't got it yet. The Old Nick or Gloria ones are a little too sophistocated. They would require too much planning, you'd have to find out about someone (named perhaps Nick or Gloria) you could ask about. When you did ask, you would be presumably telling a white lie by insinuation, i.e. because you actually do know if they are still around, while implying that you don't, but all in all this approach is too much effort.

I liked your "pontoons" answer if you mean what I think you do, athough I've only seen the word once in print. It's a pretty good answer but not the one I had in mind. Your "you don't look old enough to be a dealer" is also original, but keep in mind most dealers do in fact look well over 21, often middle years or so; so that wouldn't work on all of them.

You have put a lot of thought into it but you're still not there yet. And my hint was too good of a hint, so I won't reiterate it or give another one.

[MarkBastable]

I liked your "pontoons" answer if you mean what I think you do, athough I've only seen the word once in print.


That might be a Brit thing. When I first learned Blackjack - from my dad, in the seventies - he called the game Pontoon.

But looking here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontoon_(card_game)), I realise that actually it's a slightly different game - one which gives better odds to the player against the house. I'd forgotten the differences - but reading this article I realise that the game my dad taught me wasn't, actually, Blackjack.

[MarkBastable]

"Deal me up a few hands like you did when I was here last year. Man, I made a bundle that night...."

[prendrelemick]

The idea of the Gloria/ Nick thing is that they are random names, and hopefully he has never heard of them, so the dealer asks "how long ago did they work here", and you're into a converstation about time, which is what you want.


But really I would say. Excuse me sir I'm going to try card counting for the first time so would you mind terribly dealing slowly so I can keep up."

[NikolaiI]

Hi you guys, I wrote a longer post to this yesterday, but my computer crashed. Now I don't have time unfortunately to recreate it. I'm sorry for the brevity but you have some good thoughts but not quite there yet.

[NikolaiI]

"Deal me up a few hands like you did when I was here last year. Man, I made a bundle that night...."

I feel like this would confuse the dealer more than anything. They would probably just chuckle. It might help a little bit though.


The idea of the Gloria/ Nick thing is that they are random names, and hopefully he has never heard of them, so the dealer asks "how long ago did they work here", and you're into a converstation about time, which is what you want.

But really I would say. Excuse me sir I'm going to try card counting for the first time so would you mind terribly dealing slowly so I can keep up."

The Gloria/Nick idea with your explanation is warmer - it's the closest answer so far. The only flaw in it is that it's a little complicated. There's still a better way. And again; it is more simple than anything guesed so far!

The latter idea is cute but they would probably just ask you to leave. Their jobs might require them to.

[Jack of Hearts]

Hint!






J

[NikolaiI]

:)

well my hint is the same as before, the answer's simpler than anything given so far!

So simple that you'll all think it's too simple :P

[MarkBastable]

Please, sir, can we just give up?

[NikolaiI]

Yep I was going to post to the same today anyway. I'm giving it to Prendrel, for the closest answer.

[JuniperWoolf]

When did they get the (new carpet/jukebox/whatever) in here?

[MarkBastable]

Yep I was going to post to the same today anyway. I'm giving it to Prendrel, for the closest answer.

Yeah, but, but....the closest answer to what?

[Scheherazade]

Yeah, but, but....the closest answer to what?I am not even sure I remember the question anymore...

[NikolaiI]

The question was a bit vague, so let's just wait for Prendrel to start a new one. Sounds good.

[MarkBastable]

No, no, no. You can't do that. Also, no, no, nuh-huh, no way.

Given that we've put all this time and effort and patience into getting it not quite right, you've got to tell us what answer you were expecting. And there is one, because the guy you quoted said there was, and because you gave us a clue or two to help us get it, and you say Mick was closest to it.

[MystyrMystyry]

I think you gotta know when to hold 'em - and know when to fold 'em...

[Jack of Hearts]

This poor thread. What's that scene in Star Wars where Darth Vader is clenching his fingers and the guy is choking...?

Oh yeah. Death by strangle-hold.





J

[JuniperWoolf]

Hahaha, poor Nikolai. What a debacle.

[NikolaiI]

No, no, no. You can't do that. Also, no, no, nuh-huh, no way.

Given that we've put all this time and effort and patience into getting it not quite right, you've got to tell us what answer you were expecting. And there is one, because the guy you quoted said there was, and because you gave us a clue or two to help us get it, and you say Mick was closest to it.

Sorry - I haven't had internet access for a while, nor with my job had the time or literally energy to go to a lab..

I'll tell you, but I warn you, you're not going to like it. at least not probably.


Hahaha, poor Nikolai. What a debacle.

What the...? are you talking about, Juniper.

[MarkBastable]

I'll tell you, but I warn you, you're not going to like it. at least not probably.



Hang on while I find a bit of leather to bite on.

Riigh..g'hed.

[NikolaiI]

So, what you'd do is tell the dealer you're thinking of becoming a dealer (the white lie), and asking him something like if it's worth it to work there for a couple years.

[kasie]

Oh.




Is that it?





All this time? And that's it?

[MarkBastable]

You're right. I don't like it.

Well, no - I don't like it or dislike it any more than any of the other suggestions.

What I don't understand, though, is the advantage it has over asking, "So how long have you worked here?"

[Jack of Hearts]

In a way it's the ultimate puzzle.

And it doesn't even have to be a lie, if at the minute you say it you consider a serious lifestyle change.







J

[billl]

Here's one I heard over the weekend:

A guy comes home from work really tired. "Rough day," his son asks. "Yeah, I dug holes and planted five straight rows of four trees." "Hmm, I guess that'd be 20 trees," says the son. "Twenty? No, less than that," says the father.

How many trees did he plant? (Hint: pretty sure it was the smallest number possible, fulfilling those conditions. Five rows of four trees each...)

[Scheherazade]

15 trees?

[billl]

15 trees?

That was my guess, as well. However, the father had planted even fewer than 15 trees...

[MarkBastable]

Is this going to involve a Star of David?


Edit: Yeah, it is. I just drew it. 10.


Edit again: imagine a tree at each point and each intersection.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Star_of_David.svg/150px-Star_of_David.svg.png

Oops. I miscounted. 11

[hoope]

4 trees maybe !

[billl]

Is this going to involve a Star of David?


Edit: Yeah, it is. I just drew it. 10.


Edit again: imagine a tree at each point and each intersection.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Star_of_David.svg/150px-Star_of_David.svg.png

Oops. I miscounted. 11


4 trees maybe !

Well, the correct answer is somewhere between Mark and hoope's answers.

[Scheherazade]

Mark, that one has six rows?

10 with a five-sided star?

[billl]

Mark, that one has six rows?

10 with a five-sided star?

That's right.

[MarkBastable]

Yeah, you're right.

I envisaged a Star of David (first message).

Drew a five-pointed star and counted the nodes (second message)

Then Googled 'Star of David' and linked it (third message).


My excuse is that I was distracted by Steve Jobs buggering up my iPhone with an update from beyond the grave.

God, I hate Apple. If my company didn't insist on me using an iPhone, I'd toss this thing out of the window,

[Scheherazade]

Have to admit, I was considering a triangle (after my initial pentagol failed) until Mark's post.

A quick one:

You are on your way to the market with some gold coins in your pocket; however, you need to cross nine bridges before you reach your destination and there is a troll sitting under each bridge... They greedily ask for half of each passer's coin possession but, being somewhat good-hearted trolls still, they return one coin back.

How many coins do you need to have at the beginning of your journey so that you are left with at least two coins when you arrive at the market?

PS: No word games. Straight forward maths.

[MarkBastable]

While my phone is in triage, I'll think about this in print.

So, in order to have two after the ninth bridge, you have to have three after the eighth bridge, because the troll will take....hang on...how's he going to take half of three?

So you have to have four. He takes two, gives one back, so you've got three after the ninth bridge, which fulfils the 'at least two' requirement.

To have four after the eighth bridge, you have to have six after the seventh bridge, because the troll will take three and give you one back.

To have six after the seventh bridge, you have to have ten after the sixth bridge, because the troll will take five and give you one back.

So - 18 after the fifth.

Okay, now i've either got to actually work it out, or - which would be much more fun - come up with a formula that works for any number of bridges.

Essentially, the number of coins you need for any bridge is 2 to the power of the number of the bridge (taking the last as bridge 0, and the penultimate bridge as bridge 1), plus two more coins.

I think.

That would mean it's (two to the power of eight) plus two.

So I think it's 258. It would be cowardly of me now to actually work out whether I'm right by going through the bridges one by one.

[hoope]

That's right.

Well I thought the trick is how u read it ...
But, Bill when u said in the hint " five rows and four trees each " that confused ! Coz there is no EACH mentioned in the puzzle words when u read it !

Good one ... And good job Mark & Scher :)

[billl]

Well I thought the trick is how u read it ...
But, Bill when u said in the hint " five rows and four trees each " that confused ! Coz there is no EACH mentioned in the puzzle words when u read it !

Good one ... And good job Mark & Scher :)

It's true there's lots of puzzles like this that have a trick reading--it might've been better if I had put "each" in both places (I almost left it out entirely, glad I thought to put it in...!)

[prendrelemick]

While my phone is in triage, I'll think about this in print.

So, in order to have two after the ninth bridge, you have to have three after the eighth bridge, because the troll will take....hang on...how's he going to take half of three?

So you have to have four. He takes two, gives one back, so you've got three after the ninth bridge, which fulfils the 'at least two' requirement.

To have four after the eighth bridge, you have to have six after the seventh bridge, because the troll will take three and give you one back.

To have six after the seventh bridge, you have to have ten after the sixth bridge, because the troll will take five and give you one back.

So - 18 after the fifth.

Okay, now i've either got to actually work it out, or - which would be much more fun - come up with a formula that works for any number of bridges.

Essentially, the number of coins you need for any bridge is 2 to the power of the number of the bridge (taking the last as bridge 0, and the penultimate bridge as bridge 1), plus two more coins.

I think.

That would mean it's (two to the power of eight) plus two.

So I think it's 258. It would be cowardly of me now to actually work out whether I'm right by going through the bridges one by one.

Perhaps you have to have 2 coins at the last bridge. He takes one and gives you one back. (A bit like VAT. ) In fact if that's right, you only need two coins when you set out, as each troll will take one and give you one back. Remember Trolls are fiscally inept.

[billl]

HA!

Just like old times.

[MarkBastable]

Perhaps you have to have 2 coins at the last bridge. He takes one and gives you one back. (A bit like VAT. ) In fact if that's right, you only need two coins when you set out, as each troll will take one and give you one back. Remember Trolls are fiscally inept.


Oh, *^$£*.

[billl]

Oh, *^$£*.

If that's a cryptogram, it looks like you've chosen an out-of-the-ordinary obscenity.

[MarkBastable]

If that's a cryptogram, it looks like you've chosen an out-of-the-ordinary obscenity.


Ah, yes - the choice of an out-of-the-ordinary obscenity. <sigh> That takes me back.

[prendrelemick]

Hang on a mo' the Great One hasn't pronounced yet. She did say it was a pure maths - no word play - question.

[MarkBastable]

Hang on a mo' the Great One hasn't pronounced yet. She did say it was a pure maths - no word play - question.

Nah - there was no word play. I just fell for it. In fact, you can see me falling for it, at the point where I say 'hang on'.

[prendrelemick]

Right then, re-arrange the following into 4 groups of 4 connected words.

anvil, largo, prime, triangle,

tympanum, piano, irrational, altering,

grave, relating, cube, intergral,

presto, hammer, square , stirrup.

Yes, I have been watching 'Only Connect' on telly, to play it properly you have to do it in three minutes!

[hoope]

1 / triangle , cube , square
2 / piano , tympano , largo
3/ hammer, anvil , ( maybe grave is here ) :P
4/ altering , relating , irrational

stirrup .. maybe in 3...
aaaaah i got lost.. someone fill the blanks :)

[MarkBastable]

45 seconds...


Ear – anvil, stirrup, hammer, tympanum
Key – largo, piano
Number – irrational, prime,

[prendrelemick]

I can declare the ear group correct and complete.

[Calidore]

Cube, square, irrational, prime are numbers
Presto and largo are tempo markings, and piano and triangle are percussion instruments. Would all fit together under "music"?

[MarkBastable]

Ear – anvil, stirrup, hammer, tympanum
music – largo, piano, presto, grave
number – irrational, prime, square, integral
?? - Altering, triangle, relating, cube

[cafolini]

Nah - there was no word play. I just fell for it. In fact, you can see me falling for it, at the point where I say 'hang on'.

258 wouldn't work because you'll have 3 left at the last bridge. They don't know fractions and you must have only two for the market. A problem for both. I go with two coins to start. No word play, since everything's specified. They must give you one back no matter how much they can take.

[billl]

I go with two coins to start. No word play, since everything's specified. They must give you one back no matter how much they can take.

cafolini, good work, but Mick already solved it.

[prendrelemick]

Ear – anvil, stirrup, hammer, tympanum
music – largo, piano, presto, grave
number – irrational, prime, square, integral
?? - Altering, triangle, relating, cube



thats so close.


you need to find the connection for the last group then you'll see where you err.

[RobinHood3000]

"Integral," "altering," "triangle," and "relating" are all anagrams of each other. (Which puts "cube" under numbers. And the musical terms are three tempos and a volume?)

Hmm, noted for future Scrabble use.

[Jack of Hearts]

Actually, they're different arrangements.


Ear, music, number, arrangement?






J

[prendrelemick]

That's that sorted then,

I shall have to declare Mark the winner, for getting two groups - with special mention to Calidore for the number group and Robinhood3000 for spotting the anagrams or (thankyou Jack) the arrangements.

[Jack of Hearts]

The trick is to let Mark think he's won every time because these things are hard to come up with.






J

[MarkBastable]

The trick is to let Mark think he's won every time because these things are hard to come up with.



Oh, cheers.




...Four groups of four.


mouse rod
float sprat
line jumping
yard metre
warden foot
fly service
steeple cast
stress frost

[Calidore]

Well, honorable mention is certainly better than no mention at all. Gotta give props to Robinhood3000 for spotting the anagrams also.

So lessee:

Yard, metre, rod, foot are units of measure.

Line, fly, cast could refer to fishing (as could rod, but I think that's a red herring) (HA!)
Sprat is a type of fish, so it could go above, but it could also join with mouse and fly as animals. Or it could go with service, steeple, and stress as "s" words.

[prendrelemick]

Church: mouse warden yard service.
Jack: frost jumping sprat steeple.
Fishing: float cast rod fly.
Poetry: stress metre line foot

[MarkBastable]

Church: mouse warden yard service.
Jack: frost jumping sprat steeple.
Fishing: float cast rod fly.
Poetry: stress metre line foot

Rats. I was hoping it would take longer than that.

[Jack of Hearts]

Did take the mick get it? What's the connecting theme for the categories?






J

[MarkBastable]

Did take the mick get it? What's the connecting theme for the categories?

J

There isn't one. There never is. Mick didn't have one really - though you cleverly gave him a pun that made it look as though there was one.

[Jack of Hearts]

Yes. 'Cleverly.'

Hiding all this genius for now. Will blindside you all when you least expect it.







J

[prendrelemick]

While I'm working on a fiendish maths problem (not ready) Here is a quick something for our American cousins.


That afternoon the order came through to fill more pots of salmon roe. Ha! Yes boys! the fancy ones, topped off with one of Jack's onion sculptures, each one a work of art (hurriedly drawn) .

We took them by bus, half way across town, down to the pier. Celebrations are our business.


Who was at the party, and how are they connected.

[kasie]

So far, I've got Taft, Monroe and Jackson - would the link be Presidents?

Knowing Mick, there are probably twenty more names in there somewhere. I'm not well up in Presidents so I'll let someone else find them. :smile5:

[prendrelemick]

I won't tell you how many just yet.

I have visions of people checking for a President Fancyones or Doffwit.

[kasie]

Fillmore, Hayes, Bush, Pierce - thank you, Wiki! Now I really must go and do something useful....

[prendrelemick]

Before you do that Kasie, you need to think of another puzzle. You've gone and got 'em all.

[kasie]

Ah. Yes. Thought there would be more - sorry, folks.

Ok - here goes, an easy-peasy one for a change: all these are 'double' words (I expect there is a correct grammatical term but I can't think of it off-hand). Some have hyphens, some don't; some rhyme, some don't; some are assonances (rhymes gone wrong, as Rita put it).

1 A crooked mile. (3-3)

2 Worn on the beach. (4-4)

3 Simply the best (3-3)

4 Australian Sun Code (4,4,4)

5 What a mix-up (4-4)

6 Weak and watery (5-5)

7 Whether he wants to or not. (5-5)

8 Basics (5-5)

9 Ornament. (5-5 or 10)

10 Common lot. (3, 6)

11 Posh lot. (5-5)

12 Gossip (4-4)

13 Dance (3,3,3)

14 Wear it to dance (but not the one above!) (2,2 or 4)

15 Raindrops keep falling on my head. (6,6)

16 Dither. (6-6)

17 Puddin'n'pie. (4,4)

18 Select address. (4,4)

19 Falling over each other.... (4,4)

20 ...at high speed (6-6)

21 Native to Madagasgar (3-3)

22 I will conform to wishes immediately, Captain. (2,2 or 3,3)

23 Simply the best. (3,4-5)

[RobinHood3000]

10: Hoi polloi
14: Tutu?
15: Pitter-patter
22: Aye-aye!
23: Top-notch?

[kasie]

Well done, RH, but I had something different in mind for 23 (3,4-5).

[MarkBastable]

3 tip-top

5 topsy-turvy

7 willy-nilly

12 not tittle-tattle

13 cha-cha-cha

17 georgie porgy

19 pell-mell ?

21 aye aye (the marmosetty thing)

[kasie]

Well done, Mark, yes to 3, 7, 13, 19 and 21 (it's a lemur!) but I had something different in mind for 5 (though I wish I'd thought of your solution) - 4-4 - and 17 - 4,4.

[billl]

2. flip-flop
5. mish-mash
8. nitty-gritty (urgh, second word doesn't fit)
9. knickknack

[MarkBastable]

12 . chit-chat

18. In Brit, 'select address' might be 'des res', but that's (3, 3).

23. The bees' knees. That possessive apostrophe prompts me to wonder how many bees are involved. Which in turn leads me to the realisation that I have never once in fifty years typed that phrase, otherwise I'd have wondered before now. Tell you what - let's avoid it all together and go for the dog's balls.

[Jack of Hearts]

2. swim-suit




It may have already been got!







J

[prendrelemick]

Blummin eck! I missed this one - are there any left to get?


4. slip slap slop
11. Hoity toity or upper class
7. Willy nilly
16. dilley dalley (spelling?) or shilly shally

[kasie]

Let's see how we're doing - well, done everyone.


1 A crooked mile. (3-3) zig-zag

2 Worn on the beach. (4-4) Flip-flop

3 Simply the best (3-3) Tip-top

4 Australian Sun Code (4,4,4) Slip, slap, slop

5 What a mix-up (4-4) Mish-mash

6 Weak and watery (5-5) wishy-washy

7 Whether he wants to or not. (5-5) Willy-nilly

8 Basics (5-5) Nitty gritty (sorry, billl, can't count....)

9 Ornament. (5-5 or 10) Knick-knack

10 Common lot. (3, 6) Hoi Polloi

11 Posh lot. (5-5) Hoity toity

12 Gossip (4-4) Chit-chat

13 Dance (3,3,3) Cha cha cha

14 Wear it to dance (but not the one above!) (2,2 or 4) Tutu

15 Raindrops keep falling on my head. (6,6) Pitter, patter

16 Dither. (6-6) Shilly shally

17 Puddin'n'pie. (4,4)

18 Select address. (4,4)

19 Falling over each other.... (4,4) Pell mell

20 ...at high speed (6-6)

21 Native to Madagasgar (3-3) aye-aye

22 I will conform to wishes immediately, Captain. (2,2 or 3,3) aye, aye

23 Simply the best. (3,4-5) The Bee's knees. (No, I've never thought of it either - had to look it up.)

Well done, everyone - just five left. I think I'll edit no 17 to just "Puddin'", because I agree 'Georgie Porgy' fits the old clue better but it wasn't quite what I had in mind.

mark - looks like you might need to be on stand by for the next contribution. :biggrin5:

[prendrelemick]

6. Wishy washy

[billl]

1. zig-zag

[prendrelemick]

After watching last week's Masterchef:-

17. Tart' tata'

[MarkBastable]

6. namby-pamby ?


20. helfer levver

[kasie]

Yes,Mick (6).

Yes, billl, (1)

No, Mick (17) - nothing like as posh - good solid British fare, this one.

No Mark (6) but I like it and it could have been. And (20)? Er, no, not quite ..... but, again, I like it!

So - only, 17, 18 and 20 left.

[prendrelemick]

17. Roly poly

and if we're doing funny spelling

20. Likert ysplit

18. Pall mall

20. Helter skelter.

[kasie]

I declare a draw between Mick and Mark - seven each. Fight it out between yourselves.....

[prendrelemick]

Well I have this work in progress, I was going to string it into a story - but I can't be bovvered.

You have to guess the name that has become a metaphor or generic - or whatever it is.

He left a (AMERICAN ARTIST) on the pavement
She called for a (HATED AGENT)
My name is (MURDERER'S DOCTOR)
He did a (ENGLISH PEER) on the beach.
She tweaked her (AMERICAN PRESIDENT'S) ear.
Don't (SHAKESPEARIAN CHARACTER)to him.
He was a (FICTIONAL DREAMER) character
Let's (HOMERIC CHARACTER) the speaker.
His stories have (YOUNGEST STARFLEET OFFICER) moments
I'm going to (AMERICAN INDUSTRIALIST) up
Was there a (BIBLICAL CHARACTER) on board?.

[billl]

His stories have (YOUNGEST STARFLEET OFFICER) moments

Wesley? Crusher?

Whoa.

EDIT: I see, I didn't realize Wesley's time with the bald trans-dimensional traveler lasted so long... So the answer is CHEKOV.


His stories have Chekov moments.

[prendrelemick]

That's a better answer than the one I want.

I should explain that the names I am looking for have entered the English Language as a metaphor for an action or situation or as a generic name of something.

eg "The patience of JOB" clue would be "The patience of (BIBLICAL CHARACTER)


The one you have answered is the most obscure one. and infact Wesley Crusher's role could be an example.

[MarkBastable]

I'm not quite sure I've got my head around this.

I'm assuming that FICTIONAL DREAMER is Walter Mitty, but if that's right, I don't understand what the point is of putting it in a sentence. Unless that's a particularly literal one, and some others are less straightforward - for instance, if there had been an AMERICAN PRESIDENT called Husband. Or, coming at it the other way, a cocktail called Quisling.



Well I have this work in progress, I was going to string it into a story - but I can't be bovvered.

You have to guess the name that has become a metaphor or generic - or whatever it is.

He left a (AMERICAN ARTIST) on the pavement
She called for a (HATED AGENT)
My name is (MURDERER'S DOCTOR)
He did a (ENGLISH PEER) on the beach.
She tweaked her (AMERICAN PRESIDENT'S) ear.
Don't (SHAKESPEARIAN CHARACTER)to him.
He was a (FICTIONAL DREAMER) character
Let's (HOMERIC CHARACTER) the speaker.
His stories have (YOUNGEST STARFLEET OFFICER) moments
I'm going to (AMERICAN INDUSTRIALIST) up
Was there a (BIBLICAL CHARACTER) on board?.

[billl]

His stories have ENSIGN moments?

(Even using the internet, I can't really tell if that means anything..)

[MarkBastable]

Given that he's some kind of android, and therefore manufactured a couple of years ago, the youngest one would be that metallic guy, so the answer would be His stories have data moments. Which is not the sort of recommendation you're going to put above the title on the cover of the paperback.

[prendrelemick]

"He's a Walter Mitty Character." is a phrase I have often heard to discredit whistleblowers.

[billl]

Turns out Data was an amazingly young 9 years old when he became a Star Fleet Officer (actually, a mere 7 years old, if we discount the two years of deactivation before his discovery by the Federation).



"He's a Walter Mitty Character." is a phrase I have often heard to discredit whistleblowers.

I've heard that too (although I might not have known what it meant exactly).

[prendrelemick]

OK 9 years old trumps my Star fleet officer. So additional info needed..

She appeared in one of the many Trekkie books that sprang up (Where she is billed as Starfleet's youngest Lieutenant at 15 years old.) A character without any flaws except that she hasn't any flaws.

[kasie]

? He did a Lord Lucan on the beach.

? Was there a Jonah on board?

? Let's Hector the speaker.

[prendrelemick]

yes
yes
yes

[MarkBastable]

American Artist: Pollock
Murderer's Doctor: Mudd



...and apparently there was an American President called Pierce, though I don't think he gave his name to holes in bodies.

[prendrelemick]

yes
yes

[prendrelemick]

Well I have this work in progress, I was going to string it into a story - but I can't be bovvered.

You have to guess the name that has become a metaphor or generic - or whatever it is.

He left a (AMERICAN ARTIST) on the pavement
She called for a (HATED LANDLORD'S AGENT WHO WAS IGNORED )
My name is (MURDERER'S DOCTOR)
He did a (ENGLISH PEER) on the beach.
She tweaked her (AMERICAN PRESIDENT'S FLUFFY) ear.
Don't (SHAKESPEARIAN CHARACTER FROM TROILUS AND CRESSIDA)to him.
He was a (FICTIONAL DREAMER) character
Let's (HOMERIC CHARACTER) the speaker.
His stories have (YOUNGEST STARFLEET OFFICER) moments of self insertion
I'm going to (AMERICAN INDUSTRIALIST) the carpet
Was there a (BIBLICAL CHARACTER) on board?.

some clues.

[MarkBastable]

Th industrialist will be Hoover then. Only Brits might have got that. Yanks don't use the eponym as a verb - they say 'vacuum'.

[Jack of Hearts]

This reader was considering graduate school in England but, after reading this thread, realized he doesn't speak the language.

Also, billl, your inbox is full and it's hard to stuff a letter into there.







J



EDIT: Wow, this was 1,000.

[MarkBastable]

This reader was considering graduate school in England but, after reading this thread, realized he doesn't speak the language.


First, don't get your knickers in a twist - you'd soon pick it up. My Beloved has managed to, and this is a woman who, before she met me, used to make primetime broadcasts mocking Madonna's adoption of British cadences and idioms.

Secondly, it's not that much of a fag to understand the language, even early on. Most of it's the same as yours.

Third, the flow of influence used to be from the US to the UK, but in the last ten years - since BBC America and the Harry Potter movies - I've noticed more and more Briticisms turning up in mainstream American slang. This is an anecdotal observation, certainly, but I don't think I'm talking out of my bum.

Fourthly, if I were you, I'd come here anyway on the basis that you might make a couple of mistakes but, really, no one gives a toss.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Having run my eye down the characters in Troilus and Cressida, I think that it must be 'pander' from 'Pandurus'.

[prendrelemick]

Yep, thats another two right. I hope Jack takes a gander at your idioms Mark.



I thought I'd been severe in editing out things like " Hobson's choice" , "in like Flynn" and "Griselda" for a more international list.


"Yanks don't use the eponym as a verb"

oops! Didn't realize.

[kasie]

? Don't pander to him. (Though the character is listed as Pandarus?)

[MarkBastable]

'Fraid that one's been covered, kasie.



The landlord's agent is 'Boycott', apparently.

I didn't know that. Hasn't been an entirely wasted day, then.


Ah - okay - got there. The President in question is 'Teddy' Roosevelt.

[prendrelemick]

Just the very obscure trekkie one to get. A term I first heard on this very site about a year ago and had to wiki it, this was the result.

A **** ***, in literary criticism and particularly in fanfiction, is a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as a wish-fulfillment fantasy for the author or reader. It is generally accepted as a character whose positive aspects overwhelm their other traits until they become one-dimensional. While the label "**** ***" itself originates from a parody of this type of character, most characters labeled "**** ***s" by readers are not intended by authors as such.

[JuniperWoolf]

I know what that term is. If I say it, does that mean I have to think of a new puzzle?

[MarkBastable]

I hope not, because I thought it would be me, and I've just spent my lunch hour coming up with a new one.

[JuniperWoolf]

Good then, because random trivia is the only mind game I'm any good at. The answer is:

http://vampjac.com/lj/humor/gygax/mary_sue.jpg

[MarkBastable]

I would never have got that.

Because I've got to get back to work, can I be a bit presumptuous and post the new one....?


It's your basic group-by-connection thing, except that you need to find three groups of four and one group of three.

Then you post only the one-word connection for the group of three.

Once I've said it's right, that'll give other people a chance to figure out what the other groups must be.

<change made to list Wednesday morning - see subsequent angsty post - 'cousin' replaces 'free'>



iron, cage, early, cousin,
music, source, year, mile,
ignorant, brain, relief, pen,
entertainment, Latin, song

[prendrelemick]

Yup Mary Sue is right... but I didn't know she looked like that.


In fact I think it was one of juniperwolf's post where I first heard it.

[kasie]

Sorry, Mark, I failed to see your post-script.

[prendrelemick]

Well, shall I start (fingers crossed in case I've misunderstood)

Pig.

[MarkBastable]

Sorry, Mark, I failed to see your post-script.

I should jolly well hope you are sorry. It was an unforgiveable lapse from the standards I've come to expect. You've let yourself down very badly - perhaps irrevocably. I'm afraid that I think much less of you because of this incident and, frankly, I'm not sure there's any way for you to recover your former position in the echelons of my esteem. I'm not angry - I'm just very, very disappointed.



Well, shall I start (fingers crossed in case I've misunderstood)

Pig.

No, 'fraid not.

[billl]

HOLD ON, correcting

Hmmm, oops...

This is pretty technical, but my candidate for the group of three can actually be a group of four, if we include vocab for gas fixtures.

[MarkBastable]

HOLD ON, correcting

Hmmm, oops...

This is pretty technical, but my candidate for the group of three can actually be a group of four, if we include vocab for gas fixtures.

Don't fish, boy! Don't mumble! If you have an answer, spit it out! Otherwise sit down and let one of your fellow reptiles have a shot at it.

[JuniperWoolf]

Yup Mary Sue is right... but I didn't know she looked like that.

There are a lot of different Mary Sues. Here's another:

http://www.popartuk.com/g/l/lgpp31687+robert-pattinson-is-edward-twilight-poster.jpg

[billl]

Don't fish, boy! Don't mumble! If you have an answer, spit it out! Otherwise sit down and let one of your fellow reptiles have a shot at it.

Yeah, I know--but if I'm wrong, I'm maybe just handing out one of the groups of four. I don't know if that'd be screwing up the game, cowardly, audacious, the way the cookie crumbles, rakishly reckless, or what... But I felt reluctant.

"Pop"

[MarkBastable]

Yeah, I know--but if I'm wrong, I'm maybe just handing out one of the groups of four. I don't know if that'd be screwing up the game, cowardly, audacious, the way the cookie crumbles, rakishly reckless, or what... But I felt reluctant.

"Pop"


I think it's okay if you hit one of the groups of four, because it all adds to the general momentum, and anyway I'm not going to say whether or not what you say is one of them, so it might be that you're leading everyone astray. That's what I like about this way of doing it - it introduces more interference and permits more people to have a go. It's not just wham-bam.

So, anyway - to get to your suggestion that 'pop' might be the connector for the group of three....

No.

[MarkBastable]

http://www.popartuk.com/g/l/lgpp31687+robert-pattinson-is-edward-twilight-poster.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxPRU5t_ajI&feature=related

[JuniperWoolf]

"Age?"

[MarkBastable]

Nope, not 'age'.

[kasie]

[QUOTE=MarkBastable;1093470]I should jolly well hope you are sorry. It was an unforgiveable lapse from the standards I've come to expect. You've let yourself down very badly - perhaps irrevocably. I'm afraid that I think much of less you because of this incident and, frankly, I'm not sure there's any way for you to recover your former position in the echelons of my esteem. I'm not angry - I'm just very, very disappointed......[QUOTE]

Tough.

(Mark, you forget I used to be a teacher - I can do that sort of reprimand without blinking an eye. You should hear my Joyce Grenfell - 'Mark.... don't do that.....')

[MarkBastable]

You'd think someone would revive the comic character monologue with a modern twist, wouldn't you? I suppose the closest we've had in recent years is Victoria Wood (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEcqU7u8jJ8&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL538C0FA37444D021).

[prendrelemick]

I should jolly well hope you are sorry. It was an unforgiveable lapse from the standards I've come to expect. You've let yourself down very badly - perhaps irrevocably. I'm afraid that I think much less of you because of this incident and, frankly, I'm not sure there's any way for you to recover your former position in the echelons of my esteem. I'm not angry - I'm just very, very disappointed.




No, 'fraid not.



Thank goodness, some of the links for the other groups I had were looking a bit tenuous. I shall start again.

[JuniperWoolf]

I'm thinking "bird." (free)bird, bird(of song), bird(cage).

Oi Mick, I've been wondering all night, how'd you get "pig?" I can only find two, being pig(latin) and pig(pen).

[billl]

Two things:

1) In the previous post, Juniper is suggesting "bird" as a possibility. I'm wondering, though, does it matter if bird comes before or after the words in its group? I mean, can some be before, and some after? (and I'll add "early" and "cage" as other candidates to match with "bird", which I'm sure impresses everyone).

2) Is "Liturgical" what we're looking for?

[JuniperWoolf]

****, I missed (early)bird. Looks like it's more likely to be one of the groups of four.

[billl]

Oh, I accidentally repeated your mention of "cage"--I meant to add "brain" to the possible group members...

So we have the bird-comes-first candidates: cage, brain
and then the bird-comes-after candidates: early, song, free

It's a category that might very well be a red herring. Or it could be a group of three or four.