Daily puzzles/problems.

[prendrelemick]

I thought that would take longer. Have we used that code before?

No, It's a beaut though.

[prendrelemick]

He goes to bed before the sun goes down.


That's correct too. Have you a puzzle to post Delta? If so, please go ahead.

[MarkBastable]

No, It's a beaut though.

Yeah, I was quite pleased with it, which is why I was a bit miffed you got it so quickly.I thought maybe it was less original than I imagined.

[Delta40]

How can you throw a ball as hard as you can and have it come back to you, even if it doesn't bounce off anything? There is nothing attached to it, and no one else catches or throws it back to you.

[MarkBastable]

How can you throw a ball as hard as you can and have it come back to you, even if it doesn't bounce off anything? There is nothing attached to it, and no one else catches or throws it back to you.

Do it in such a way that it's, practically, in orbit. So, for instance, from quite high up on Earth. Or on a small planet with enough gravitational pull to stop the ball flying off into space, but not quite enough to bring it to the ground.

[billl]

Or throw it straight up, but (and this is crucial) *not* hard enough to attain orbit.

[prendrelemick]

Or hurl it close enough to a small planet for a gravitational slingshot effect to bring it back.

or throw a beach all into a stiff easterly wind on Skegness Beach. ( it works I've done it too often.)

[billl]

Or toss it into the water upstream as hard as you wish, while standing, immersed, in one of those amusement park flume rides.

[prendrelemick]

Or in a Tom and Jerry moment, it enters a hole in a tree, dissappears for a bit, then comes out of a lower hole, (preceeded by an angry squirrel) rolls along a branch, into some roof guttering, along the roof guttering, down a down spout, across the lawn and comes to rest at your feet.

It could happen you know.

[MarkBastable]

I like the one with the squirrel.

[prendrelemick]

I think we may consider the ball question thoroughly answered.


53-32-81 74-53-43-71 81-42-32 31-63-41-74 63-33 _ _ _.

[prendrelemick]

clue.

A few days ago mark posted a puzzle where he'd substituted each letter with its co-ordinates on a qwerty keyboard.

This is an unashamed rip-off of that idea.

[billl]

I'm getting to it! Patience!

[prendrelemick]

Sorry billl, and don't call me Patience!

[billl]

Seriously, I am intrigued but haven't had much time, nor had I made any headway (beyond constructing some incorrect number ciphers)--I definitely needed that clue. Prendrelmick!

[kasie]

.....91-21-73

63-42 31-32-21-73, 81-42-21-62-74 43 42-21-81-31 81-61 81-41-43-62-51 63-33 21-62-63-81-41-32-73 71-82-94-94-3-32, 31-63-32-74-62-'81 43-81?

I think Patience is rather a good name for someone involved in lambing.

[prendrelemick]

93,82,71.

Now try that with predictive text on!

[jajdude]

What's going on? Anyone?

[prendrelemick]

53-32-81 74-53-43-71 81-42-32 31-63-41-74 63-33 _ _ _.



OK, the code was co-ordinates from a mobile phone key pad - which I later realized is the same as texting really. So for "A" you press the number 2 key once, so it's 21, Then for "B" its 22, and so on up to Z which is 94.

Pretty fiendish, I thought.




I've just thought, I hope phone keypads are the same the world over!

[kasie]

63-52....I mean, OK, here goes:

Take Charlie and add his brother Jim; next add Jim's lass, Mary, and then her old man, Will, who was a colourful sort of chap. Don't forget her sister, Nancy, though technically speaking, she will not add anything to your total. Now add cousin George plus his boy, George, also his son who was unimaginatively named after Grandpa - they were around for an age. Add in his eldest son as well, likewise named after Grandpa: he liked to Be Beside the Seaside and was around for a nominal age as well though he's remembered more for his role. Then add his brother, Bill, who really did run away to sea for a while.

You should be up to 23 so far.

You can't forget their niece - she was around for an age after all - though like Cousin Nan she won't add anything to your total. Add her son, Ted, then his son who was named after his grandma's grandpa but changed the family name. Now add his son who was named after his grandpa though Mum and Dad called him Davie at home which was quite appropriate really - he didn't stay around for long but he has added the highest number yet to your score. Add his brother who was named after Dad but was known as Bert at home to avoid confusion. Add his girl, Betty - and that's as far as you can go for now.

What's your total? You should have a prime number as an answer but that's a coincidence.

[MarkBastable]

.....51

[kasie]

Correct. Your turn.

[prendrelemick]

blummin' eck, I was no where near.

[MarkBastable]

(This might be absurdly easy to an American - in which case I apologise.)

Recently it's been Illinois, Massachusetts, Arkansas and Connecticut.

Any debate aside, what would Wikipedia say it is now?

[jajdude]

Not American, but anything to do with presidents?

[MarkBastable]

That's not an answer, dude. That's a question.

[Calidore]

Which is a different game. :-)

[prendrelemick]

Hang on a minute, 51, why?

[MarkBastable]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monarchs_of_England


Add up the ordinals, from the Restoration onwards. (Charlie, as the question has it.)

[kasie]

Thanks, Mark - you're right. I thought it might be an apropos question for Royal Wedding Week! I was going to go back to 1066 but thought that might be pushing it a bit (and I can't remember quite how all the Edwards and Henrys fit in the middle.)

[prendrelemick]

(This might be absurdly easy to an American - in which case I apologise.)

Recently it's been Illinois, Massachusetts, Arkansas and Connecticut.

Any debate aside, what would Wikipedia say it is now?


They are the states that provided America with it's last 4 presidents, as jajdude knew. But not sure about the last bit.

perhaps Ireland? That seems to be where every president claims his roots are.

[prendrelemick]

Hawaii.

[MarkBastable]

....Yep.

[prendrelemick]

Here is a genuine logistical scenario from my other life as an Erector of Fences. This happened a few days ago

Me and Ade were at a livery yard.

We had 100m of post and rail fence to do, all the supplies were tipped at one end of the fence line, and because of the poor access we had to carry them out by hand.

The rails are 3.6m long and so required a post every 1.8m. It was to be a 3 rail fence, so the rails were to be laid out in piles of three, each pile touching end to end with the next pile. Along side each pile there were to be two posts, as the posts are 1.8 long this means the posts are also laid end to end .

Me and Ade are both farmers with dodgy knees and can only manage to carry either three rails or two posts at a time, we can also only manage to travel at 1m per second ,including picking up and putting down.

Now in the cut-throat world of Fence Erecting time is money, so Ade went to get help and I began to carry the stuff out. I'd done 10 trips when he arrived back with Richard and they began to help . Richard, the yard owner, is an ex-rugby league player with dodgy knees and could only travel at our pace, BUT he decided he could carry 3 posts each trip. He did this for 6 trips then sat down on the grass and watched me and Ade do the rest.


How long did it take us? Please show workings out, as I haven't done it yet either.

Assume the first trip was 3.6 metres. Remember this is a real life situation, so the numbers may not be exact, but there needs to be enough rails and posts to complete 100 metres of fence.

[Calidore]

Hmmm. If you bill for time, and we're working out the time for you, it seems to me a large consultancy fee is in order.

[prendrelemick]

Oh law, I've been rumbled.

[prendrelemick]

Before I find myself in the embarrassing situation of answering my own question wrongly (billl,where are you?) I now realize there is not enough infomation above to answer it, as you need to know exactly which posts Richard took out.

So assume that while Richard was helping, me and Ade carried out rails only.

[billl]

I'm working on it now, under the assumption that Richard laid out the posts for the sections of fence that would be nearest to the pile of supplies. Let me know if we want him to do the most distant piles, though.

ALSO (obviously, just nit-picking), it is assumed that this is a straight fence (no short-cuts to distant sections).

ALSO, I am assuming that the first pile of three rails (and the first three posts) are a distance of 0m from the supply pile, and therefore take "no time", even though picking up/putting down/and arranging end-to-end are all part of the process. However long this would take (something less than 3.6 seconds...) can of course be added to my final answer to the puzzle. This assumption allows me to (ideally, though not realistically) consider the second section as being simply 3.6m from the supplies, with no need for information about the distance of the supplies from the fence, or how that distance increases as the supplies dwindle.

EDIT: I decided it would be simpler (mathematically) to have the first THREE posts be at a distance of zero from the pile of supplies.

[billl]

I've got 41.94 minutes (41 minutes, 56 seconds).

I'll type up the work pretty soon here...

[MarkBastable]

Yeah. For sure. 41.94 minutes. That's what I got too. 41.94 minutes.

[billl]

Um, some points regarding what it takes to lay the first section of rails out has altered my result. (I'll be done soon, just keeping you posted.)

[billl]

NUMBER OF "SECTIONS" OF FENCE = 28
TOTAL LENGTH OF FENCE= 100.8m (3.6m x 28)

As explained in the puzzle, each section will have 3 rails of fence, and two posts. Note, the first section will actually have a third post (the 'end' post), and I will assume that this post can simply be left where it is in the pile of supplies at the beginning of the fence, and doesn't have to be carried anywhere.

RAILS
Note that I'm not worrying about the unmentioned (and apparently minimal, but *realistically* increasing as supplies are used up) distance of the supplies from the beginning of the fencing.

First, let's see how much distance must be covered to lay out all of the rails from end to end. Each section needs one "round trip" by a worker--even the first section, which just needs to be "arranged" at a distance of "zero" from the pile of supplies will need the worker to carry the far end of the rails the full 3.6 meters. So the first section is a round trip of 7.2 meters.

The Second Section would thus be 7.2m from the supplies (round trip of 14.4m), the Third Section would be 10.8m away (21.6m round trip), etc.
The furthest section needing a pile of rails would be the 28th Section, at a distance of 100.8m (round trip = 201.6m).

7.2m = Shortest Trip
201.6m = Longest Trip
Average Trip = (Shortest + Longest) divided by 2 = 104.4m
Total Ground Covered By Workers Carrying Rails = 104.4m x 28 round trips = 2923.2m

POSTS
Well, while Mick and Ade are working on the fencing, Richard gives them a head start on the posts by doing the first 9 sections (that's his 18 posts, plus the first one that's just lying at the beginning, with the supplies). When we realize that he gets work done faster than Mick or Ade, AND we assume that, what with his knee problems and everything, he only bothers helping with the nearest sections, it is safe to assume that Mick and Ade are still quite busy on the rails by the time Richard's contribution is complete. So we don't need to figure out how long it takes Richard to finish his part of the job (Although it is pretty interesting, not at all straight-forward, and *might *make a good puzzle). All we need to realize is that he has given the other two guys a head start on the posts, once they finish with the rails.

MICK AND ADE CARRYING POSTS
After Richard's head start, Mick and Ade still need to do the bulk of the post-carrying. Sections 10-28 remain to be done.

(3.6 x 10) x 2 = 72 = Shortest Trip (remember, these are "Round Trips", so we multiply distance by 2)
(3.6 x 28) x 2 = 201.6 = Longest Trip
Average Trip = 273.6 (Shortest + Longest) divided by 2 = 136.8m
Total Ground Covered By Mick and Ade Carrying Posts = 136.8m x 19 (sections) = 2599.2m

At this point, we could simply add the distances covered by Mick and Ade carrying the posts and rails, divide by two (because they are working simultaneously), and the result would be the number of seconds they spent doing the work. HOWEVER, Mick did the first 10 sections of rails on his own, and so we need to find the amount of time spent on that (and subtract THAT distance from the time that they were working on the rails *together*). I'm going to assume that Mick did the nearest sections first--but this assumption has a BIG affect on the final results... If he had done the 10 most distant sections first, that would've meant that Ade was off looking for Richard for a much, much longer time.

JUST MICK ON THE RAILS
Section 1 (round trip = 7.2m) to Section 10 (round trip = 72m).
Average Trip = 79.2m divided by 2 = 39.6m
Total Ground Covered By Just Mick Carrying The First 10 Sections Of Rails = 39.6m x 10 trips = 396m

SO
The total time spent while Ade was off looking for help = 396 seconds.
At the 396-seconds mark, Richard joins in (chipping away at the scope of Mick and Ade's task) and Ade and Mick begin to work together.

TOTAL DISTANCE COVERED BY MICK ALONE *AND* MICK AND ADE = Rail trips ground covered + "post Richard" Posts ground covered
TOTAL DISTANCE COVERED BY MICK ALONE *AND* MICK AND ADE = 2923.2m + 2599.2m = 5522.4m

5522.4m is the distance that needs to be covered, after Richard's head-start on the posts is taken into account.

TIME
TIME = (MICK ALONE) divided by 1m/sec + (MICK AND ADE WORKING TOGETHER) divided by 2m/sec
note that Mick and Ade working together cut the time in half...
TIME = (396)/1 + (5522.4-396)/2
note that Mick's early work is subtracted from the total work done, in order to find the amount done by them working together.
TIME = 396 + 2563.2 = 2959.2 seconds

Total time = 49.32 minutes = 49 minutes, 19.2 seconds.

Again, I assumed that Richard and Mick began the rails and posts by doing the nearest sections first.

Finally, I want to point out that, in all likelihood (unless I've been very lucky here) we would end up with either Mick or Ade standing around, arms folded, watching the other guy walking back from his job of carrying the final pair of posts to the most distant section (and my procedure here considers the walk back to be part of the job, but that's beside the point). Since that walk would take 108 seconds at the most, I have to say that my answer therefore has a 108 second margin of error--(because I'm not going to figure out the exact amount of time that one of them is left to work on the last bit by himself, I haven't even begun to think about how to do that...). It's worth noting that this margin of error would be cut down to a mere 3.6 seconds if Mick and Richard had begun the whole operation by starting on the most distant section first, but, as I mentioned earlier, we would've then ended up with a much longer time-frame for this job in such a case, and it frankly wouldn't bring me any sort of joy to run though the motions again and figure out the math on it. I mean, this was pretty fun (seriously!), but that's my best effort. Feel free to look it over--really, I think I have taken a reasonable stab at it, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if there were errors of even the most basic kind in this "solution"! I used a calculator app on my computer that required me to point and click on the numbers, for example.

[jajdude]

billl wins at life

[billl]

Well, thanks. Upon reflection, I think I'm possibly way off, in regards to the margin of error--one guy might begin the last section just as the guy doing the next to last is returning (I think), and that sort of situation could push the final guy's work to a 216 second trip. However, another thing I forgot to take into consideration is the fact that time spent with just the one guy working at the end is still *half* as efficient as when they are working together, which brings the margin for error back down to 108 seconds. Hmph... Oh, and the bit about how long it takes Richard to do his part isn't as tricky as I initially imagined, either.

Let's just say I've gotten it right enough, until someone else finds some other problem with it. In the meantime, that means I should be providing the next puzzle.

[billl]

A sheep herder has seven sheep: four white, two brown, and one black. How many of them can each say that they are the same color as another of the herder's sheep?

[MarkBastable]

A sheep herder has seven sheep: four white, two brown, and one black. How many of them can each say that they are the same color as another of the herder's sheep?

None of them, unless they are remarkably talented sheep.

[billl]

That's right, I'll be back to my usual stuff next time.

[prendrelemick]

Thanks billl.

My answer was almost the same, but I had made a few different assumptions.

Amazingly it took about that long in real life too. And well done for remembering that extra post at the end.

[MarkBastable]

Is it my turn?

[Scheherazade]

Is it my turn?That must be a trick question!

*takes out pen and paper*

[billl]

Yeah, Mark. I know what I did seems cheap.

[kasie]

None of them, unless they are remarkably talented sheep.

OK, but maybe our friendly local sheep farmer can explain to me why all the white sheep in the flock in the field outside my kitchen window kept together and all the black sheep kept together. The white sheep chased the black lambs away but the black sheep didn't chase the white lambs away. Mind you, the black lambs (twins and a singleton) were pesky little fellows and kept fighting and the remaining white singleton (one died) liked joining in but ran off when things got a bit rough and head butting started. There was clearly communication of some sort going on there. Any comments about Welsh sheep will be regarded with extreme displeasure - you have been warned...(btw, I suspect there shouldn't have been any lambs there at all - it's usually a flock of barren ewes at that time of year.)

[MarkBastable]

<edited slightly since first posting>


There's a circular underground railway line (two lines, if you want to be pedantic) on which two trains travel - one going clockwise and one going counterclockwise, and they run twenty-four hours a day. The clockwise train takes take an hour and ten minutes to complete a circuit of the line, and the counterclockwise train, which is a bit decrepit and travels on the outer of the two parallel tracks, takes an hour and a half. There are four stations on the line, at the compass points - North Station, East Station, South Station and West Station.

I have not looked at the timetable, but I walk to the North Station wanting to go to South Station. As I step onto the platform, at which trains arrive on both sides, my phone rings. It's my friend at the South Station.

"To the nearest minute, how long is it going to take you to get here?" he asks.

Being a cautious person, I say, "Well, I plan to get the next train, so worst case..."

...What?

[prendrelemick]

OK, but maybe our friendly local sheep farmer can explain to me why all the white sheep in the flock in the field outside my kitchen window kept together and all the black sheep kept together. The white sheep chased the black lambs away but the black sheep didn't chase the white lambs away. Mind you, the black lambs (twins and a singleton) were pesky little fellows and kept fighting and the remaining white singleton (one died) liked joining in but ran off when things got a bit rough and head butting started. There was clearly communication of some sort going on there. Any comments about Welsh sheep will be regarded with extreme displeasure - you have been warned...(btw, I suspect there shouldn't have been any lambs there at all - it's usually a flock of barren ewes at that time of year.)

The only thing I know about sheep is that they're very clever at being stupid.

[prendrelemick]

If you are very unlucky and have just missed both trains, 1 hr 45 mins.

[MarkBastable]

If you are very unlucky and have just missed both trains, 1 hr 45 mins.

....Yep.

[prendrelemick]

can.yO.UF.inD.t.hEhi.DD.ENW.oRd.her.e

[billl]

could it be "den"?

[prendrelemick]

Morning billl.

Nope.

[billl]

Thank goodness.

And good morning to you, too. Right now I'm using youtube to watch an episode of the 1969 TV show "UFO", because well that's what I ended up doing, trying to stay awake a bit longer on a boring Saturday night. Having to suddenly come up with a worthy puzzle would've shattered my morale.

[prendrelemick]

I do't want to dash anyone's hopes here, but its clue time.

[MarkBastable]

drewfounded

Not a common word, admittedly, but used at least once on the Web. Er..just then.

[prendrelemick]

A good woody sort of word, but wrong.

[Calidore]

"any"?

[prendrelemick]

No.
Ok there are two words really, but "words" wouldn't fit, because the number of letters is crucial.
Also, they're not really words, but a name.
Perhaps you could nibble on a morsel of cod as you think about this case.

[prendrelemick]

can.yO.UF.inD.t.hEhi.DD.ENW.oRd.her.e


the sA ME naM e iSin TH ISS eNt enc e

[MarkBastable]

....now you're just making me feel stupid.

[prendrelemick]

I have part remorse about that STOP

[Sano]

Samuel Morse in morse code?

[prendrelemick]

Samuel Morse in morse code?


Yesss! Upper case dashes, lower case dots.

Now for the bad news, you have to post the next puzzle.

[billl]

Ha, yes, I see.

[Sano]

Ok, this is pretty easy, but here it is:

I am what I am,
but if you know what I am,
I am not longer what I am.
Guess, what am I?

[MarkBastable]

A secret?

[Sano]

It could be, but it isn't the correct answer to this one. Try again. :)

[togre]

a wrong answer?

[Sano]

Nope. Tip: Mark's answer was closer to it than yours. :)

[MarkBastable]

I've never had much patience with riddles. They always seem so contrived to me. Contrived and quite often leaky as hell. I mean, look at the riddle of the Sphinx. Faced with that absurdly cobbled-together attempt at a puzzle, any traveller with a modicum of gumption would flip the Sphinx the finger and tell him - or possibly her - to spin on it, then gee up the camel and head for the first pub on Thebes High Street.

[prendrelemick]

Ok, this is pretty easy, but here it is:

I am what I am,
but if you know what I am,
I am not longer what I am.
Guess, what am I?



A puzzle ?

[billl]

Mystery?

[prendrelemick]

A mystery puzzle?

[billl]

A secret mystery puzzle?

[MarkBastable]

A stranger.

[billl]

A successful imposter.

[Sano]

A puzzle ?

Yep, you got it. :) Your turn now.

[prendrelemick]

Noooooo!


Give us a moment.

[prendrelemick]

seven is half of twelve in a certain situation. Explain.

[Sano]

twelve (6 letters) minus seven (5 letters) equals seven minus half (4 letters)? It does sound a bit crazy, but it's all I can think of at the moment.

[MarkBastable]

I have no clear way of drawing this but I'll give it a go...


\/ | |


is half of

\/ | |
/\ | |

[prendrelemick]

sano, brilliant but wrong!

Mark, correct! I've used the Roman Numeral route once too often me thinks.

[MarkBastable]

Here's one that forms a snippet of backstory in a fiction piece of mine.....


The second-born of a pair of twins is older than the first-born, having been born in a different country and a different year.

[togre]

On a plane at an airport in Vladivostok, Russia, a woman goes into labor. While the plane is taxiing down the runway, her first child is born at 9:00am, January 1st, 2009. The plane flies to Anchorage, Alaska, USA. The flight takes 1 hour, but crosses the International Date Line and therefore touches down at 11:00 am, December 31st, 2008. The woman gives birth to her second child--born after the first, but on in a different, earlier year.

[prendrelemick]

^ Sounds right to me.

[billl]

Yeah, togre, if you can think of a new puzzle, that would be great! It is your right!

(And, unfortunately, your responsibility. Of course, after this much time, you can allow yourself to be considered "shamefully unconcerned" with that responsibility, and then ANYONE might choose to do the next puzzle! Or you can just say that you were waiting for Mark's verification, and quickly post the next puzzle.)

[togre]

Bob is 6 feet tall, works as a butcher's assistant and has size 11 shoes. What does Bob weigh?

[MarkBastable]

Sorry. Been distracted. Yes. More later.

[prendrelemick]

Meat.

[togre]

Yep, prendrelemick! :party:

Now its your turn.

[prendrelemick]

My age is 26 plus half my age, what's my age?

[togre]

52? :shocked:

[MarkBastable]

If it's not, I'm looking forward to finding out why.

[prendrelemick]

Course it is!




note to self : Must try harder.

[prendrelemick]

I've never had much patience with riddles. They always seem so contrived to me. Contrived and quite often leaky as hell. I mean, look at the riddle of the Sphinx. Faced with that absurdly cobbled-together attempt at a puzzle, any traveller with a modicum of gumption would flip the Sphinx the finger and tell him - or possibly her - to spin on it, then gee up the camel and head for the first pub on Thebes High Street.



They didn't have camels, they rode around on Theban cycles.

[MarkBastable]

On the twin thing, togre was right on the money.

This is how it's explained in the draft of the novel. Every time I read it I drive myself slightly nuts trying to work out whether I've got the direction right.

-----------------------------------------------


“Tell me about your twin brother,” Alice said during the next session.

“What’s the relevance of that?”

“Maybe none. I don’t know.”

I sighed. “Okay – here’s the quirky thing about me. I was born in a different year and a different country to my twin.”

Alice gave the quizzical look I’ve come to expect when I trot out that freakish fact. “How so?”

“I was born at two o’clock in the morning, January 1st, 1963, in the Solomon Islands. In the airport, in fact. I was two weeks early and I had decided to come into the world just as a spectacular typhoon was about to hit.” I picked up my bottle of mineral water from which I took a swig. “My father, God knows how, persuaded an American airforce plane to take my mother and I – still bloody and blue – on board. No one had any idea that the birth wasn’t over. The plane flew east and was forced down in Samoa, where my brother Pablo was born.”

“Amazing,” Alice nodded.

“But the plane had crossed the international dateline into the previous day. So Pablo was born on 31st December, 1962 – after me, but the day before me.”

Alice clapped her hands, laughing. “Oh, I love that.”

“It breaks the ice at parties,” I admitted.

[prendrelemick]

I knew a boy who was born on a flight over the arctic.. Suppose he was born exactly while above the pole, Is there a time there?

[MarkBastable]

I've just noticed something in my extract that leaves me clammy with mortification.

[togre]

Ok, it's me again? Decipher the following message:

YYURYYUBICURYY4ME

[prendrelemick]

Too wise you are
Too wise you be
I see you are too wise for me.

Good one togre.

While I think of something, can we try and guess what mortified Mark?

[togre]

Too wise you are
Too wise you be
I see you are too wise for me.

Good one togre.


Right on. That's one my father taught me years ago.



Too wise you are
While I think of something, can we try and guess what mortified Mark?

From his tone I assume it's some unforgivable proof reading error or using "your" instead of "you're" but I looked for a couple of minutes and couldn't find anything scandalous.

[togre]

the international dateline


Could it be "International Date Line" is the clammy-causing calamity? If so, that's a pretty acute conscience to be pricked so sharply by such a slip.

[prendrelemick]

I picked up my bottle of mineral water from which I took a swig.






A trifle inelegant perhaps?

[MarkBastable]

A trifle inelegant perhaps?

Funny you should say that. I edited that sentence on the fly as I pasted the passage in, and didn't really read it back to myself. So, yeah - I'll do something about that.

But that's not it. And it's not the lack of capitalisation on International Date Line, either, though I'da got that at final edit, I think.

[billl]

my mother and ME!

[MarkBastable]

my mother and ME!

Yeah, that's it.

It's a good example of one of the dilemmas of writing in the first person, actually. The narrator is exactly the sort of person who would make that over-compensatory error, so it's true to his voice. On the other hand, I'm exactly the sort of person who might make the error in speech but would correct himself immediately. So to leave the error in would require me to have a lot of confidence in both myself and in the reader's trust in me as the writer of a narrative voice.

I ought to leave it there, really, and learn to live with the cringe.

[prendrelemick]

I noticed that, but thought it was ok as mother and narrator were the subject of the sentence. However, in 1970s comprehensives we didn't do grammer - or spelling.

[prendrelemick]

I,ve done another rhyming slang one.

To remind you how it works, a word is substituted by the first word of a common phrase. The last word of that phrase rhymes with the substituted word.

For example "Car" can be substituted by "Jam" because "Jam Jar" rhymes with car.




I've no chocolate and it gives me quiche to admit it, I was a pig's in my chicken life. I was a cup, living in a cottage, my life was a parma.

Harsh cucumber? Perhaps, but I need to rogan this chow away and turn over a new roast. It would be ground to be able to change your life as easily as a kiwi and apple and start a new parsley.

[MarkBastable]

So far....

I've no chocolate and it gives me quiche lorraine (pain) to admit it. I was a pig's trotter (rotter) in my chicken korma (former) life. I was a cup, living in a cottage, my life was a parma ham (sham).

Harsh cucumber? Perhaps, but I need to rogan josh (wash) this chow mein (stain) away and turn over a new roast beef (leaf). It would be ground meat (neat) to be able to change your life as easily as a kiwi fruit (suit) and apple pie (tie) and start a new parsley.

[prendrelemick]

Mostly right so far.

[prendrelemick]

This question is about as popular as a *********** in a **** tub.

[billl]

No, we're just going through a phase, I think. It's pretty challenging coming up with new ones--I've developed a fear of posting correct answers (it'd be rude! to make people wait for me to provide a good one in order to keep things going), and so I sometimes just figure someone else will get one, and I'll get back in the game once I've got something in pocket that I can deploy upon a successful solution to the latest offering.

Something like that--I will get back to this one (thanks for bumping--I had actually forgotten that there was a new one in play, sometimes we just sit for a while waiting for the next one...) hopefully this weekend. I think I had actually come up with something for "chocolate" but can't remember it at the moment...

[billl]

So far....

I've no chocolate and it gives me quiche lorraine (pain) to admit it. I was a pig's trotter (rotter) in my chicken korma (former) life. I was a cup, living in a cottage, my life was a parma ham (sham).

Harsh cucumber? Perhaps, but I need to rogan josh (wash) this chow mein (stain) away and turn over a new roast beef (leaf). It would be ground meat (neat) to be able to change your life as easily as a kiwi fruit (suit) and apple pie (tie) and start a new parsley.

A possible bit of progress...
==============================================
I've no chocolate scones (stones) and it gives me quiche lorraine (pain) to admit it. I was a pig's trotter (rotter) in my chicken korma (former) life. I was a cup, living in a cottage pie (sty), my life was a parma ham (sham).

Harsh cucumber? Perhaps, but I need to rogan josh (wash) this chow mein (stain) away and turn over a new roast beef (leaf). It would be ground meat (neat) to be able to change your life as easily as a kiwi fruit (suit) and apple pie (tie) and start a new parsley.

[prendrelemick]

Time for some breaking news (clues) for the phrases


Chocolate: a light fluffy pudding or an elk.
Cucumber: you often cut corners to make this, and the edges as well.
Ground: Tarzan author had this for his middle course.
Parsley: A wise herb.
Cup: In my day, a bun

Cottage pie is right, but not sty.

[MarkBastable]

Chocolate: a light fluffy pudding or an elk
chocolate mousse. Er, use? If so, it's a specifically North-of-Derby construction. Where I come from it'd be 'am' rather then 'have'. So I'm not convinced I've got the rhyme right.

Cucumber: you often cut corners to make this, and the edges as well.
cucumber sandwich - langwidge.


Ground: Tarzan author had this for his middle course.
Rice? So, nice? I'da got this a lot quicker if a) I'd ever heard of ground rice and b) I hadn't convinced myself that Tarzan was written by H. Rider Haggard.


Parsley: A wise herb.
parsley and sage - age


Cup: In my day, a bun.
Cupcake - fake.

Cottage pie is right, but not sty.
If it weren't for that 'in' I'd say it was lie.

[MystyrMystyry]

Ground: Tarzan author had this for his middle course.
Rice? So, nice? I'da got this a lot quicker if a) I'd ever heard of ground rice and b) I hadn't convinced myself that Tarzan was written by H. Rider Haggard

Best laugh all week!

[prendrelemick]

Just to let you know I sweated and cogitated about that inapropriate "in" but left it there anyway, for the sake of the cottage imagery.

Didn't you have school dinners? Ground rice pudding with a blob of something jam-like in the middle.

Otherwise, you're half way there with "use." and threequarters there with "age."

[MarkBastable]

Just to let you know I sweated and cogitated about that inapropriate "in" but left it there anyway, for the sake of the cottage imagery.

Didn't you have school dinners? Ground rice pudding with a blob of something jam-like in the middle.

Otherwise, you're half way there with "use." and threequarters there with "age."


Typo - meant 'page'

[MarkBastable]

Oh - excuse.

[MarkBastable]

Phrases, idioms and sayings containing 'and'. (I mean, not any old 'and'. Phrases where the 'andness' is intrinsic to the meaning and usage.)


1. PSR&T

2. SC&P

3. HL&S

4. YF&S

5. S&D&R&R

6. AME&BM

7. LS&B

8. RH&PAW

9. FH&C

10. AM&NT

11. OSOP&OH

12. F&FF

13. YG&B

14. B&PF

15. AA&AL

16. C"GFHE&SG!"

17. TH&B

18. GS&M

19. HSK&T,K&T

20. OTH&FA

[prendrelemick]

MarkBastable;1038754]Phrases, idioms and sayings containing 'and'. (I mean, not any old 'and'. Phrases where the 'andness' is intrinsic to the meaning and usage.)


1. PSR&T parsley sage rosmary and thyme

2. SC&P snap crackle and pop

3. HL&S

4. YF&S young free and single

5. S&D&R&R

6. AME&BM

7. LS&B lock stock and barrel

8. RH&PAW

9. FH&C

10. AM&NT

11. OSOP&OH

12. F&FF

13. YG&B young gifted and black

14. B&PF

15. AA&AL

16. C"GFHE&SG!"

17. TH&B

18. GS&M

19. HSK&T,K&Thead shoulders knees and toes, knees and toes.

20. OTH&FA[/QUOTE]

[kasie]

MarkBastable;1038754]Phrases, idioms and sayings containing 'and'. (I mean, not any old 'and'. Phrases where the 'andness' is intrinsic to the meaning and usage.)


1. PSR&T parsley sage rosmary and thyme

2. SC&P snap crackle and pop

3. HL&S Hook, Line and sinker

4. YF&S young free and single

5. S&D&R&R

6. AME&BM All My Eye and Betty Martin

7. LS&B lock stock and barrel

8. RH&PAW Rest Here and Pause A While

9. FH&C Faith Hope and Charity

10. AM&NT

11. OSOP&OH Over Sexed, Over Paid and Over Here

12. F&FF Footloose and Fancy Free

13. YG&B young gifted and black

14. B&PF

15. AA&AL

16. C"GFHE&SG!" Cry " God For Harry, England and St George"

17. TH&B To Hell and Back

18. GS&M Game, Set and Match

19. HSK&T,K&Thead shoulders knees and toes, knees and toes.

20. OTH&FA Over The Hills and Far Away [/QUOTE]

Not sure about No 8?

[MarkBastable]

Brilliant.

But 8 is not the one I had in mind. In fact, I'd argue that 'awhile' is one word. It's debatable, admittedly.

I thought 5 would be the easiest of the lot.

[billl]

5. Sex & Drugs & Rock & Roll

10. All Music & No Talk

[MarkBastable]

5. Sex & Drugs & Rock & Roll

10. All Music & No Talk

That's not 10, though the right answer conveys a similar sentiment (or perhaps, if you take it apart, the opposite one). Also, it's idiomatically Brit - so the Yanks here stand very little chance. On the other hand, it's likely to be a Yank that gets 8. I'm very even-handed like that.

I thought 6 and 8 would be the tough ones. I'm simultaneously impressed and dismayed that kasie got All My Eye and Betty Martin so immediately.


STOP PRESS: I've just discovered that there's a US equivalent of 10 - which would be AH&NC. It's one I'm going to start using, I think.

[prendrelemick]

8. Ridden hard and put away wet. (Kasie's is so much nicer)

10. All mouth andno trousers

[MarkBastable]

Well done, mick.

So we're left with two from the field of commerce:

14. B&PF

15. AA&AL

Also, following my addition to the previous post, the US version of 10, AH&NC (which might just be a Texan thing).... Not that that one's really part of the game - it just amused me.

[billl]

All Hat and No Cattle

[billl]

14. Bought and Paid For

[kasie]

15 Audited Accounts and Adjusted Losses?

(I know the feminine version of the All Mouth one......)

[MarkBastable]

<duplicate post>

[MarkBastable]

Audited Accounts and Adjusted Losses?

Nope. It has to do with the expression of cost. To be honest, I nearly didn't include this remaining one because I don't think it's as neat a 'listy' thing as the others. If no one's got it by this evening, I'll give the answer and we'll move on.



(I know the feminine version of the All Mouth one......)

If you're thinking of FC&NK, I'd say that that wasn't quite like AM&NT, which is about failure to deliver on a boast, whereas FC&NK is more to do with a high likelihood of delivery despite pretensions to the contrary.

[MarkBastable]

An arm & a leg.


Kasie's go, I think.

[prendrelemick]

So obvious - when you know the answer.

[kasie]

Ah, gee, thanks, Mark.......

Right, the same only different - I'm incapable of original thought right now - opening lines of poems. An easy one to start off:

1 I X D K K /A S P D D

2 I W L A A C

3 H A L, H A L, /H A L O

4 S I C T T A S D? /T A M L A M T

5 I I A A M /A H S O O T

6 I W A A G N, A G T I

7 M L I L A R R R

8 T C T T K O P D

9 S O M A M F

10 A D T F I A T /W U E M G?

11 I M G D T T S A, T T L S A T S

12 H D I L T? L M C T W

13 I Y C K Y H W A A Y /A L T A B I O Y

14 T, T, B B /I T F O T N

15 T,T, L S /H I W W Y A

16 T B A T S T /D G A G I T W

17 A D S H N D

18 O, T B I E /N T A T

19 L M N T T M O T M /A I, L I N L /W A W I A F, /O B W T R T R:

And to finish, not a beginning, but an ending:

20 .............O!Y
S T C C A T T T?
A I T H S F T?

[MarkBastable]

I'll smugly pick off the easy ones before I leave for work...


1 I X D K K /A S P D D In Xanadu did Kublai Khan

2 I W L A A C I wandered lonely as a cloud

3 H A L, H A L, /H A L Half a league, half a league

4 S I C T T A S D? /T A M L A M T Shall I compare thee to a summer's day?

5 I I A A M /A H S O O T

6 I W A A G N, A G T I

7 M L I L A R R R My love is like a red, red rose

8 T C T T K O P D

9 S O M A M F

10 A D T F I A T /W U E M G? And did those feet....

11 I M G D T T S A, T T L S A T S I must go down to the sea again

12 H D I L T? L M C T W How do I love thee?

13 I Y C K Y H W A A Y /A L T A B I O Y If you can keep your head...

14 T, T, B B /I T F O T N Tiger, Tiger, burning bright

15 T,T, L S /H I W W Y A

16 T B A T S T /D G A G I T W

17 A D S H N D And Death shall have no dominion

18 O, T B I E /N T A T Oh, to be in England

19 L M N T T M O T M /A I, L I N L /W A W I A F, /O B W T R T R: Let me not to the marriage of true minds

And to finish, not a beginning, but an ending:

20 .............O!Y
S T C C A T T T?
A I T H S F T?[/QUOTE] ...is there honey still for tea?

[kasie]

Well done - I think you'd better be preparing the next puzzle. :smile5:

[prendrelemick]

Blummin 'eck he's got the three I knew. (I obviously go to work much earlier than Mark)

[prendrelemick]

I'll smugly pick off the easy ones before I leave for work...


1 I X D K K /A S P D D In Xanadu did Kublai Khan

2 I W L A A C I wandered lonely as a cloud

3 H A L, H A L, /H A L Half a league, half a league

4 S I C T T A S D? /T A M L A M T Shall I compare thee to a summer's day?

5 I I A A M /A H S O O T It is an ancient mariner/and he stopoth one in three

6 I W A A G N, A G T II will arise and go now, and go to Innesfree

7 M L I L A R R R My love is like a red, red rose

8 T C T T K O P D

9 S O M A M F Season of mists and mellow fruitfulness

10 A D T F I A T /W U E M G? And did those feet....

11 I M G D T T S A, T T L S A T S I must go down to the sea again

12 H D I L T? L M C T W How do I love thee?

13 I Y C K Y H W A A Y /A L T A B I O Y If you can keep your head...

14 T, T, B B /I T F O T N Tiger, Tiger, burning bright

15 T,T, L S /H I W W Y A

16 T B A T S T /D G A G I T W

17 A D S H N D And Death shall have no dominion

18 O, T B I E /N T A T Oh, to be in England

19 L M N T T M O T M /A I, L I N L /W A W I A F, /O B W T R T R: Let me not to the marriage of true minds

And to finish, not a beginning, but an ending:

20 .............O!Y
S T C C A T T T?
A I T H S F T? ...is there honey still for tea?[/QUOTE]


But I get home earlier.

[kasie]

Wow, am I impressed or what! It looked easy until I typed it in and then it looked horrendously difficult but - you clever lot have cracked it - just three left. Think C18th, Nursery Rhymes and Nonsense......

[MarkBastable]

I I A A M /A H S O O T It is an ancient mariner/and he stopoth one in three


That'll be 'one of three', given the clue. Now I have to look it up to see which of you is right.

(I'm not suggesting for an instant that I'd've got it either way, though I should have.)

[prendrelemick]

I standoth corrected.

15 .Twinkle twinkle little star.

[billl]

I really want to raise an objection about the lack of U.S. poetry in this puzzle. HOWEVER, I only know the beginning of maybe three U.S. poems, and I don't really have too many at all memorized from whatever country, and for all I know half of this puzzle does actually consist of U.S. poems.

[MarkBastable]

16. Twas brillig and the slithy toves....


Man, I'm embarrassed that wasn't the first one I got.

[prendrelemick]

Ahh. 16. Twas brilling and the slithey toves/ did gire and gimble in the wabe.



A day off work today (callooh callay.)


Edit: Sorry, too late.

[prendrelemick]

I really want to raise an objection about the lack of U.S. poetry in this puzzle. HOWEVER, I only know the beginning of maybe three U.S. poems, and I don't really have too many at all memorized from whatever country, and for all I know half of this puzzle does actually consist of U.S. poems.


No, you're quite right billl, this is the kind of stuff we brits took in with our mother's milk.

[MarkBastable]

So we're left with the eighteenth century teaser...

8 T C T T K O P D

..which apparently my mother failed to supply. She was always more of a post-modernist neo-expressionist breastfeeder.

[kasie]

I really want to raise an objection about the lack of U.S. poetry in this puzzle. HOWEVER, I only know the beginning of maybe three U.S. poems, and I don't really have too many at all memorized from whatever country, and for all I know half of this puzzle does actually consist of U.S. poems.

I did realise that this was a rather anglo-centric selection, billl, and I almost apologised to you in advance but the only American verses I could think of were 'Captain, my captain!' (Thank you 'Dead Poets Society'....), something about Annabelle Lee, a raven quothing 'Nevermore', something vague from Hiawatha and 'The woods are lovely, dark and deep/ But I have promises to keep/ and miles to go before I sleep' and I couldn't remember the opening lines. I know, I could have gone on line to fiind them but I'm a sweetly old-fashioned sort of gal who likes her poetry from a book she can reach down from the shelf and I'm ashamed to say I have no book of American verse. :blush: (It didn't find much of a place in Eng Lit courses in my day....) I did squeeze in a Scot, an Irishman and a Welshman - and I was a bit doubtful about Dylan but I can see his 'Lovely, ugly city' from my window so he sort of insisted on being in there somewhere - so it wasn't entirely English. And Mick's right - we grow up with these verses, even if we only remember the opening lines.

5 It is an ancient Mariner, /And he stoppeth one of three.

Only one to go - well done.

[prendrelemick]

The curfew tolls the knell of parting day


That was lucky, it's about the only C18 poem I know.

[MarkBastable]

Phew. That last one's a weight off my mind. I was becoming obsessed.

Okay - animal idioms. To give you something to go on, the animals are given in a separate list, but the initial letter is asterisked in the phrase initials. I think that a few solve themselves, simply because - given the animal - there's only one idiom it can possibly be, which'll make the rest easier to get. But we'll see how it goes.



ABFO*

A*NF

T*WLDWTL

E*HID

APAAC*

A*ISC

FLA*SLAB

*ITG

YCLA*TW

A*CCIS

T*TGTC

APAA*

LA*TTS

A*IYB

O*DMAS

UT*CH

*IYP

STSFT*

DCY*BTH

A*WASH



ants
bear
bee
butterfly
cat
chickens
cows
dog
elephant
goats
horse
lamb
leopard
lion
monkeys
mouse
peacock
snake
swallow
wolf

[prendrelemick]

Phew. That last one's a weight off my mind. I was becoming obsessed.

Okay - animal idioms. To give you something to go on, the animals are given in a separate list, but the initial letter is asterisked in the phrase initials. I think that a few solve themselves, simply because - given the animal - there's only one idiom it can possibly be, which'll make the rest easier to get. But we'll see how it goes.



ABFO*

A*NFAn elephant never forgets

T*WLDWTLThe lion will lie down with the lamb

E*HID

APAAC*

A*ISC

FLA*SLABFloats like a butterfly stings like a bee

*ITGSnake in the grass

YCLA*TW

A*CCISA leopard cannot change its spots

T*TGTC

APAA*

LA*TTS

A*IYB

O*DMASOne swallow doesn't make a summer

UT*CH

*IYPAnts in your pants

STSFT*

DCY*BTH

A*WASH



ants
bear
bee
butterfly
cat
chickens
cows
dog
elephant
goats
horse
lamb
leopard
lion
monkeys
mouse
peacock
snake
swallow
wolf

Thats a start anyway.

[jajdude]

4. Every dog has its day.
6. A wolf in sheep's clothing
9. You can lead a horse to water...
19. Don't count your chickens before they're hatched.

14. A bee in your bonnet.

[prendrelemick]

Hmm, Cat got your tongue, Cat's whiskers, Cat o nine tails, No room to swing a Cat, Cat's cradle, Like a Cat with the cream.

Ahh, No. 11 The cat that got the cream!

Brainstorming works!


What's left.

Monkeys
Peacock
Bear
Cows
Lamb
Mouse
Goats.

18. Sort the sheep from the goats
1. A barrell full of monkeys
16. Until the cows come home

[kasie]

The curfew tolls the knell of parting day


That was lucky, it's about the only C18 poem I know.

Me, too, Mick! (I think). :smile5:

[MarkBastable]

Update.....



ABFO* A barrell full of monkeys

A*NF An elephant never forgets

T*WLDWTL The lion will lie down with the lamb

E*HID Every dog has its day

APAAC*

A*ISC A wolf in sheep's clothing

FLA*SLAB Floats like a butterfly stings like a bee

*ITG Snake in the grass

YCLA*TW You can lead a horse to water...

A*CCIS A leopard cannot change its spots

T*TGTC The cat that got the cream

APAA*

LA*TTS

A*IYB A bee in your bonnet

O*DMAS One swallow doesn't make a summer

UT*CH Until the cows come home

*IYP Ants in your pants

STSFT* Sort the sheep from the goats

DCY*BTH Don't count your chickens before they're hatched

A*WASH


.....which leaves

bear
lamb
mouse
peacock

[kasie]

5 As poor as a church mouse

12 As proud as a peacock

13 Like a lamb to the slaughter

20 A bear with a sore head

Good game, Mark - Mick's turn, I think?

[prendrelemick]

A traditional riddle.

As I was going through Bramble hall,
A proud old man gave me a call;
His beard was flesh, his mouth was horn,
And this old man was never born.



Hang on a minute! I bet kasie knew them all - all along, but didn't want to set a question.

[kasie]

Ummm - not quite, Mick and anyway, you beat me to it, I was out on Thursday evening so didn't pick up the puzzle until Friday morning.

But as you've sussed me, I won't try an answer to your puzzle.....

[jajdude]

I have never heard these before:

The cat that got the cream
Sort the sheep from the goats
A bear with a sore head

British expressions, perhaps?

[MarkBastable]

The cat that got the cream - probably Brit
Sort the sheep from the goats - Biblical, I believe (Matthew 25.31-46)
A bear with a sore head - probably US

[jajdude]

Ok, thanks. New puzzle? Whose turn is it?

[MarkBastable]

Mick posted a riddle last week. And apparently it's stumped everyone.

[billl]

A traditional riddle.

As I was going through Bramble hall,
A proud old man gave me a call;
His beard was flesh, his mouth was horn,
And this old man was never born.





Maybe like a large pipe organ, with someone (the beard) playing it?

[prendrelemick]

And I thought it was another case of prendrelemick kills off the thread with a too easy question .

Clue: This old man kept a comb but had no hair.

[billl]

Rooster? (I don't know what the comb would be, but I'm throwing it out there anyhow.)



EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comb_(anatomy)

**** of the walk, baby!

[prendrelemick]

Commiserations billl, you're right!

[MarkBastable]

So what's the 'never born' bit about? Having been an egg doesn't count as birth?

See, this is why I hate riddles. That kind of contrivance makes me cross.

Still - off we go....

[billl]

I heard this one over the weekend:

There's a 10-mile long bamboo and twine bridge between two islands in the South Pacific. It's a hell of a thing this bridge, enormous and pretty strong for not having any metal or concrete involved.

Anyhow, there's a toll booth at each end, and you have to pay AND you have to get weighed if you are in a truck, because the bridge has a strict (total) 20 ton limit. If you go even the slightest bit beyond that limit, the bridge will collapse.

Well, Joe Trucker drives onto the scales, and his truck (with him inside) weighed EXACTLY 20 tons. Not a milligram over or under. Well, the toll booth guy called the toll booth guy at the other end, and they blocked incoming traffic and waited for the cars already on the bridge to clear off. With the bridge eventually clear of all other traffic, Joe T. started the engine and began driving onto the bridge.

About half-way across, a sparrow came flying alongside his truck, on the passenger side. Then, amazingly, the bird stuck out its legs and made to land on the passenger-side rear-view mirror. In a matter of moments, the bird would be resting on the truck, and adding to the total weight!

What did Joe Trucker do?

[Calidore]

Shoot it, thus lightening the truck by the weight of a bullet?

Toss his coffee out the window?

Nothing, because he'd burned more than a sparrow's weight of gas driving that far?

[billl]

Shoot it, thus lightening the truck by the weight of a bullet?

Toss his coffee out the window?

Nothing, because he'd burned more than a sparrow's weight of gas driving that far?

The last one in your list of suggestions is the one that the guys on the radio show Car Talk were looking for (Joe didn't have to do anything), but they also admitted that tossing a shoe out of the window and so on were also things that Joe might do. Good going, Calidore.

[Calidore]

Score one for the dartboard approach.

However, I haven't a puzzle handy and don't always look at this thread anyway, so if anyone who doesn't normally get to would like to put one up in my place, go for it.

And if it's bad form to toss out an answer without a follow-up handy, please say so.

[MarkBastable]

What connects table football, calm water on a breezeless day and Soviet anti anti tank weapons?

[billl]

What connects table football, calm water on a breezeless day and Soviet anti anti tank weapons?

I'm sorry, I just have to check (because the nearly redundant/repetitive "calm water on a breezeless day" opens up a vaguely tantalizing prospect, albeit one exposed as pretty much hopeless in the light of the straight-forward "table football") if there really is supposed to be two "anti's" in there.

[prendrelemick]

I 've heard of soviet tanks having "reflective" armour that exploded outwards when hit by a shell.

That would tie in with a reflective surface of water, (just noticed quotation marks - more research needed there.)

The table football has me stumped (or should that be sick as a parrot) at the moment.

[MarkBastable]

I'm sorry, I just have to check (because the nearly redundant/repetitive "calm water on a breezeless day" opens up a vaguely tantalizing prospect, albeit one exposed as pretty much hopeless in the light of the straight-forward "table football") if there really is supposed to be two "anti's" in there.

Yes, there is.

[billl]

All right--and while I have you, would it also be the case that "weapon" would indicate something that strikes back/against (rather than some defensive equipment, like armor or camoflauge)?

[MarkBastable]

All right--and while I have you, would it also be the case that "weapon" would indicate something that strikes back/against (rather than some defensive equipment, like armor or camoflauge)?

Yes, it would.

This is quite a difficult problem, and might require a bit of research - but the connection's not very contrived. If there's no progress by tomorrow, I'll give clues.

[MarkBastable]

Practically giving it away, here are the clues...


http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq193/markbastable/birdone.jpg

http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq193/markbastable/birdthree.png

http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq193/markbastable/birdtwo.jpg

[prendrelemick]

I recognise the Thrush and the Kingfisher, and am willing to bet the other is a Falco Subbuteo because that was a line of enquiry I rejected last week.

So, table football = Subbuteo = Hobby

Still water = Halcyon =Kingfisher

That leaves the Thrush and its connection to auntie's anti tank weapon.

[billl]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drozd

[prendrelemick]

Thanks billl, that means its your turn, eh?

[billl]

I suppose. A bittersweet victory, caught on the tails of doubly-grand-accomplishment and give-away-clues.

[MarkBastable]

The guy who invented the game tried to patent it as 'The Hobby' but was told that wasn't allowed. So he used the Latin for the bird of the same name - Subbuteo.

I find it oddly satisfying that the Russian 'drozd' is so obviously cognate with 'throstle'.

[billl]

I might be shaking my fist with a little too much indignant frustration here, because I wasn't even close, but the internet was directing me to Foosball when I checked "Table Soccer".

I actually had a friend who had the complete Subbuteo thing with the pitch and everything in the 70's, and I was totally thinking that might be what "Table Soccer" was until my Google steered me wrong.

But, to reiterate, it isn't like that was the one element that ultimately stumped me. And thanks for the memories!

[billl]

Yuae iuei otoh vfgr dtu!

[prendrelemick]

I might be shaking my fist with a little too much indignant frustration here, because I wasn't even close, but the internet was directing me to Foosball when I checked "Table Soccer".

I actually had a friend who had the complete Subbuteo thing with the pitch and everything in the 70's, and I was totally thinking that might be what "Table Soccer" was until my Google steered me wrong.

But, to reiterate, it isn't like that was the one element that ultimately stumped me. And thanks for the memories!


Yeah, Google did that to me too, turned me from the right path early on.

[billl]

Yuae iuei otoh vfgr dtu!

(It would be cruel to do a "typical" cryptogram as short as this one. It's a different kind of cipher, and pretty difficult I would think, if you are unfamiliar with it. Maybe a clue tomorrow, if needed...)

[prendrelemick]

It's got me stumped.

[billl]

Unlike other ones we've done, this one is not a *substitution* cipher.

[MarkBastable]

Unlike other ones we've done, this one is not a *substitution* cipher.

Great. That narrows down my available approaches. From one to none.

[billl]

We might normally have the puzzle-giver give some clue here, somewhere between the lines of our typical one-upmanship half-disguised as discussion. Perhaps something like that would be in order?

[prendrelemick]

Ha! I've got it.

and it did indeed take alot of figuring out!


The clue was that all the vowels seemed to be together and so were all the consanants, so it was a case of sorting them out, then a pattern emerged.

simple but clever, well done billl.

[billl]

I didn't come up with it myself, but I'm glad you enjoyed figuring it out! (Nice work, by the way.)

Here's an attached text file with the explanation of the cipher for those who are done racking their brains on it:

[MarkBastable]

.....having read it, I still don't understand it. Or rather, I do, but I can't make it work with yours, even though I can see what the answer is.

This may be one of those things that have to do with how my brain works, along with not knowing my left from my right, and having all the spatial awareness of a stick-man drawn in lipstick on a mirror. I'm lousy at Scrabble too.

[billl]

Ha, well, I noticed that I spelled "book" wrong in my attachment, and so I wouldn't be surprised if my hasty explanation was inelegant or even featured a completely backwards near-misrepresentation of a key point.

Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_Fence_Cipher) is another explanation I found from Wikipedia, with a slightly trickier example that might be easier to understand than mine (at the very least, it's another look at the thing).

[ShoutGrace]

Yo uh av ef ig ur ed it ou t

Brutal. Took my brain a long time to work through that! I'm exhausted.

[billl]

I'll bet it was satisfying to finally figure it out, Grace.

So, Mick is next (unless he's really pulled off one heck of a bluff on us).

[prendrelemick]

No, no I split the sentence in half - ten characters in each, (including exclamation mark) Then wrote down the first letter of the first half, then the first letter of the second half, then the second letter of the first half, then the second letter of the second half.... Simples!


Now my turn

A group of friends booked a holiday together. With their conformation they received this weasley worded pledge.

"We promise that regardless of age or gender, Iceland -your holiday destination - will inspire nearly all who visit"


How many went on the trip?
What were their names?


And just for fun (To avoid the dreaded Brit bias ) what kind of bread was in the packed lunches.? and what was the gluten free alternative?

[kasie]

Well, that would have been Seth, Reg, Les, George, Andy, Des, Nat, Will, Ned and Al, the Terrible Ten, I think. And the sarnies were made of Hovis with an alternative of Rice. (You didn't ask, but they were sitting on the sofa when they decided on the trip.)

[prendrelemick]

They certainly were,:D but there were many more of them.

Ned may be a stowaway.

[kasie]

Did Rene and Tina go along too? And I wondered about Deric but I wouldn't have spelled his name like that.

[MarkBastable]

....I was going to suggest where they filled up the car on the way to the airport, but it seemed too little too late. Not that they were late. Quite the opposite.

[prendrelemick]

yep, but they were by no means the only ladies.


Mark: a person may be named after not being late.

I'm not having Deric though..

[kasie]

Sorry, Ned shouldn't be there, he crept in via my poor handwriting that made a look like d.

I notice Eric may have joined the party. And maybe Ric? Did Ina decide to come as well?

[prendrelemick]

Ric and Ina couldn't get a passport with names like that.


About seven to go. (All the names were checked against "Names for Baby" 1981 edition)

[MarkBastable]

You mean Al, I suppose, who was picked up just past the church.

[prendrelemick]

Mmm, Will was in the church and Al just beyond.- but we've already had them.


I would like to apologise to Ina, she should've been going but I missed her. I hope there are no others.

[prendrelemick]

No, no I split the sentence in half - ten characters in each, (including exclamation mark) Then wrote down the first letter of the first half, then the first letter of the second half, then the second letter of the first half, then the second letter of the second half.... Simples!


Now my turn

A group of friends booked a holiday together. With their conformation they received this weasley worded pledge.

"We promise that regardless of age or gender, Iceland -your holiday destination - will inspire nearly all who visit"


How many went on the trip?
What were their names?


And just for fun (To avoid the dreaded Brit bias ) what kind of bread was in the packed lunches.? and what was the gluten free alternative?


So far :-

Seth
Reg
Les
George
Eric
Andy
Des
Tina
Nat
Will
Rene
Ina
Al

With Hovis sandwiches and Rice alternative, the minibus was filled up at an ESSO garage and there is a sofa involved somehow.

There are another seven people to pick up yet.

[billl]

Well, here's some lame attempts:

Lin
Irene
Earl

seem sufficiently British.

"Nea" is a popular Finnish name.

"Ender" is the name of a famous Sci-Fi character.

"Cela" is probably an acceptable name in Spain or Portugal.

[MarkBastable]

Not to mention Lyall.

[prendrelemick]

Irene, earl and Lyall are in the official book. (Names for Baby )


Lin , Nea, Cela, and Ender aren't, even though "Ender's Game" is a classic of Sci Fi. If you aint in The Book, you aint on the trip.

4 to go

[billl]

It is less than five characters, so let me preface it with all of this--but how about:

"I"?

EDIT: and "you"?

[prendrelemick]

Nope,

A clue, Des and Tina's daugher, sister to Nat.

[kasie]

Nope,

A clue, Des and Tina's daugher, sister to Nat.

Is Estina a name?

[prendrelemick]

Nope, but you're in the right street - Destination Avenue - think of the Moon


Then there is Earl's twin sister who was born before her time. (I must admit I was suprised to find her in The Book, turns out it is an old male name. )

Then there is a couple who are always on holiday.

[MarkBastable]

Oli and Lida?



Nope, but you're in the right street - Destination Avenue - think of the Moon


Then there is Earl's twin sister who was born before her time. (I must admit I was suprised to find her in The Book, turns out it is an old male name. )

Then there is a couple who are always on holiday.

[prendrelemick]

Oli is in (suprisingly) Lida isn't but its so close.

[MarkBastable]

Ho? Olid? Liday? Iday? Day? Or even, Dayde?

[prendrelemick]

No, try again! no need to get in such a STATE.

[MarkBastable]

Ida. The ho.

[MarkBastable]

Not Io, surely? Though I'd love to meet someone with that name.

And if it is, I'd pedantically complain that the clue should have been 'think of the moon' (lowercase).

[prendrelemick]

I'm sorry if that's the case.

My daughters best friend was called Io Fox.

Ida is right, but I cannot possibly comment on her status.

Now, only Earl's twin sister-who sounds like she was born was born before her time- to get, then I can go and get some work done. She may sound like a hippy child of the 60's but her name has ancient roots, meaning a young eagle.

She and Earl are very close.

[kasie]

Early? Earlya?

[prendrelemick]

Yes! Its Early.

Thank goodness, I was about to post that I had made a terrible mistake - its actually down in The Book as a boys name! - I copied it out wrongly. (I've also just discovered Arly)

So that's it. I think Kasie got the most of them.

[kasie]

Oh. Goody. My turn then......

Let's have an easy one. Here are some more '&' puzzles:

1 SS&BF

2 F&FB

3 TGTB&TU

4 SW&TSD

5 TW&HW

6 B&L

7 ATB&B, ACG&S

8 HS&J

9 HT&E

10 H&L

11 RD&MH (DILY, MOM?)

12 G&T

13 AO&SC

14 O&L, STBOSC

15 RH&HMM

16 AP&C

17 J&JWUTH

18 MLL&G

19 B&GCOTP

20 TIG&KYPD

These were the ones I was looking for last time but they weren't there.

Early is a name??

[MarkBastable]

There's a pizza in the oven. I have to rush.

11. Do I love you? My oh my. River Deep, Mountain High.

(You'll notice that I put no '&' in there, because I'm going to have to go back to the record to make sure she actually sings the word.)

[jajdude]

I don't know any on first glance.

[prendrelemick]

I got the Gin and Tonic straight away. (12)

Nothing else though.


1. Ship shape & Bristol fashion.

[billl]

You can be sure that the extent of my contributions to this mind-buster will be

2. Few & Far Between

[prendrelemick]

Morning bill. The Good, The Bad and the Ugly (3) have now all contributed.

[kasie]

So far, so good.

You may be right, Mark, in which case I apologise - it's just that 'singing' it in my head (and you would not want it sung any other way, believe me), I need an & to make the words fit the melody.

At that time in the morning, Mick? Oh well, I suppose the sun is over the yardarm somewhere in the world.

[MarkBastable]

5. The world and his wife
14. Oranges and lemons, say the bells of St. Clements
15. Robin Hood and his Merry Men
17. Jack and Jill went up the hill.

[prendrelemick]

20. Trust in God & keep your powder dry.

[Calidore]

7. All things bright & beautiful, all creatures great & small

[billl]

8. Hop, skip and jump.

[kasie]

So far, so good, folks. Let's have an update:



1 SS&BF Ship Shape & Bristol Fashion

2 F&FB Few & Far Between

3 TGTB&TU The Good, the Bad & the Ugly

4 SW&TSD Snow White & the Seven Dwarfs

5 TW&HW The World & His Wife

6 B&L By & Large

7 ATB&B, ACG&S All Things Bright&Beautiful, All Creatures Great & Small

8 HS&J Hop, Skip & Jump

9 HT&E Here, There & Everywhere

10 H&L High(s) & Low(s)

11 RD&MH (DILY, MOM?) River Deep & Mountain High (Do I Love You, Me oh my?)

12 G&T Gin & Tonic

13 AO&SC

14 O&L, STBOSC Oranges & Lemons, Say the Bells of St Clements

15 RH&HMM Robin Hood & His Merry Men

16 AP&C All Present & Correct

17 J&JWUTH Jack & Jill Went Up the Hill

18 MLL&G

19 B&GCOTP Boys & Girls Come Out To Play

20 TIG&KYPD Trust in God & Keep Your Powder Dry.



Just over half solved - a couple of Nursery Rhymes still to be deciphered.

[MarkBastable]

4. Snow White and the Seven Dwarves


Oh, and we've got 14.

[kasie]

Apologies, so you have - list duly amended. Yes, to no 4 as well.

[prendrelemick]

10. Highs and lows.


6. Big and little? (I suspect that's wrong)


19. Boys and girls come out to play.

[kasie]

10 I was thinking just 'High & Low' but I'll accept the plural.

6 No - it's a nautical expression that is irritatingly used wrongly in general speech.

19 - Correct.

I'll amend the list.

[prendrelemick]

Ah, that'll be "By and Large" then. Something to do with wind direction ?

[MystyrMystyry]

9 - Here, There, & Everywhere

[prendrelemick]

16. All present and correct.