Classical Listening [Archive] - Page 3 - Literature Network Forums

stlukesguild

10-21-2010, 06:32 PM

While I don't buy any of Robert's conspiracy theory nonsense concerning Mozart and Haydn, I must admit that the era of music known as the "classical era" in which Mozart and Haydn were the dominant composers is perhaps the least appreciated... and least explored of all the eras in classical music. Romanticism, Post-Romanticism, and Early Modernism seem to be the most popular with the classical music listeners for a variety of reasons. The music is often quite emotional and dynamic and the orchestration incredibly varied and rich. The composers of the era include an incredible range: Schubert, Schumann, Berlioz, Chopin, Wagner, Schumann, Brahms, Bruckner, Mahler, Bizet, Offenbach, Puccini, Verdi, Mahler, Richard Strauss, Debussy, Mussorgsky, Tchaikovsky, Dvorak, Stravinsky, Ravel, etc... An incredible wealth of musical genius.

It has only been since the mid-80s and the development of the historically informed performances (HIP) which stressed performances of music employing appropriate instruments, numbers of performers, and performing styles that the interest in "early music" (music from the Baroque and earlier) has blossomed. Among the realm of classical music their are now endless early music and Baroque music fanatics. As a result, not only have we found the work of J.S. Bach become recognized as perhaps the greatest achievement in the whole of Western music... but we have uncovered the incredible depth of Handel beyond the Messiah and Water Music and Vivaldi beyond the Four Seasons. Composers such as Jan Dismas Zelenka, Heinrich Ignaz Franz von Biber, Georg Philipp Telemann, Alessandro and Domenic Scarlatti, Jean-Philippe Rameau, Jean-Baptiste de Lully, jan Pieterszoon Sweelinck, Dieterich Buxtehude, and Claudio Monteverdi have all been recognized as musical geniuses. Even a great many composers have been unveiled from the Renaissance and Medieval periods: Carlo Gesualdo, Hildegard of Bingen, Leonin, Perotin, Purcell, Melani, Ockeghem, Sylvius Weiss, Oswald von Wolkenstein, Guillaume de Machaut, Lorenzo da Firenze, John Dunstaple, Guillaume Dufay, Thomas Tallis, John Taverner, Orlando Gibbons, William Byrd, etc...

The classical eras however...? This is a period that outside of a few towering giants seems to get little attention. I must admit that I am no better here. Like a great many, I began to develop my classical music collection with the central canonical figures. After this, I began to flesh out the collection with composers from the Romantic, Post-Romantic, and Early Modernist periods. Over the last several years I have made a conscious effort to explore late Modern and contemporary composers as well as baroque, Renaissance, and Medieval composers. But the "classical era"? In spite of my admitted love of Mozart and Haydn I must admit to but a scant effort at further exploration.

Of course it seems as if the arts of the 18th century as a whole are lacking any real love. Few art lovers prefer Rococo or Neo-Classicism to Romanticism, Impressionism, or Modernism. Even fewer literary buffs seem to prefer Pope, Swift, Johnson, Voltaire, or Gibbons to Keats, Shelley, Coleridge, Blake, Dickens, Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, etc...

The general ignorance of the music of the "classical era" is sad because there are indeed some marvelous composers beyond Mozart and Haydn. I have just begun to explore Johann Nepomuk Hummel. Hummel was virtually of the same generation as Beethoven... the late classical era. He was a pupil of Mozart and studied with Salieri before being recommended by Haydn for a position in the court of Prince Esterházy (the same court at which Haydn had long been employed). He made whirlwind tours of Europe and was recognized as one of the most highly regarded composers and musicians. Today he often seems to be known for little more than his famous trumpet concerto:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBRwzfHefIk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR8H8CSojis&feature=related

But Hummel also composed some wonderful piano concertos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_doolM3Rh-M&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VSZ2aYiGaU&feature=related

But as a great choral music fan I am most intrigued with Hummel's choral work:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTgd4fOR49w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYQCHbtRgBg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bOoetsdalQ&feature=related

Hummel is clearly someone to explore in greater depth... as is the whole of the classical era.

Emil Miller

10-21-2010, 06:44 PM

Russian pianist Yulianna Avdeeva -2010 winner of the International Chopin Competition in Warsaw.

Frederic Chopin - Concerto No. 1
2nd Movement

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96kbYp8zKUc&feature=player_embedded#!

I have just listened to the 2nd and 3rd movements and, as always, am bowled over by this music. Avdeeva is wonderful in her authoritative account of this great romantic piano composition. Thanks for posting it.

L.M. The Third

10-21-2010, 08:52 PM

I assume, stlukes, you're saying that the classical-era composers, other than Mozart and Haydn, are undervalued. Or do you include Mozart and Haydn there?

stlukesguild

10-21-2010, 11:33 PM

L.M. The Third

10-21-2010, 11:49 PM

Thanks for explaining. I've just become obsessed with Mozart, but I've never listened to any Haydn other than "The Creation". What are his best works?

stlukesguild

10-22-2010, 12:51 AM

I've never listened to any Haydn other than "The Creation". What are his best works?

His choral work is fabulous: The Lord Nelson Mass, Harmoniemesse, Paukenmesse, Theresienmesse, St. Cecilia Mass, Great Organ Mass... and of course his other oratorio, The Seasons.

Among his symphonic work, the last 12 symphonies, known as the London Symphonies are magnificent... but another great selection can be found in this set:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4132/5103622223_583eec9c87.jpg

Of his "smaller" or more intimate compositions the string quartets are his greatest achievement... and the Kodaly Quartet which records for the budget label, Naxos, are top-notch... often unrivaled. Among the best quartets are the Seven Last Words (of Christ), Op. 76, Op. 77, and Op. 103

I have the complete piano sonatas but would recommend starting with any number of fine performances of selected sonatas. The sets by Marc-Andre Hamelin, Leif Ove Andsnes, Emanuel Ax, Jean-Efflam Bavouzet, Alain Planès and especially Alfred Brendel are all to be recommended.

After these...? The cello concertos are perhaps next in line followed by the piano trios.

Lokasenna

10-22-2010, 03:51 AM

Considering that Mozart is generally ranked among the "3 Immortals" (Bach, Beethoven, and Mozart) and generally thought to only have been surpassed by Bach, I don't see that he could possibly be undervalued. Haydn might be undervalued by those with little or no real appreciation of classical music... but he is generally credited with establishing the form of the string quartet, his piano sonatas may surpass Mozart's (whose were written more often for students than for himself), his final symphonies form a bridge from Mozart to Beethoven, and his choral works are spectacular. What I am suggesting is that whereas many classical music collections include a large array of composers from the Romantic, Post-Romantic, and Early Modern periods... and where the Baroque is no longer limited to Bach, Handel, and Vivaldi... the classical era seems largely ignored outside of Haydn and Mozart.

I think we can include Beethoven under the label of 'classical', surely? And there's certainly an argument for considering Schubert as a bridging force between the classical and romantic period.

That would give us four noted composers: Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven and Schubert. While they may be dwarfed in number by all the Romantic composers, I suspect that these four would find a place on almost anybody's 'Top 10' list of composers. I think we have a quality/quantity problem here...

Musicology

10-22-2010, 06:04 AM

St Luke's Guild writes -

''While I don't buy any of Robert's conspiracy theory nonsense concerning Mozart and Haydn''

No, but you 'buy in' to the fraternal nonsense of the Mozart/Haydn paradigm instead. And that's great. So did I. For most of my youth and adulthood. The difference between us is I started to realise I knew as much of 18th century music as I did of that from Classical Greece or Imperial Rome. Which was close to zero. That was my starting position. Quite a humbling experience after a decade of compliling notes on Mozart - all the time accepting them at face value as honest, truthful accounts, you may agree. Now, if a person admits to being ignorant of more than 99.9% of all music of an entire period (even the period of Josef Haydn and Mozart), and finally discovers for himself/herself (by spending many years on it) that dozens, even hundreds of musical works attributed to Josef Haydn and Mozart are not actually by Josef Haydn or W.A. Mozart would he/she not be right to conclude at that point (at least for himself) that there is a problem ? Would they not be in a position, as they studied these works in detail and from many angles, over decades (plus what has been said and written of them ad nauseum by the monochrome perpetuators of the Mozart cult) that they could predict there would be problems in each and every work they studied from that time onwards, in advance of actually examining them, chronologically, that is ? Which is precisely what we find, in reality ! What conclusion would we draw from that experience ?

Let us suppose, however, we have been vaccinated against 'conspiracy theories' of any kind. So that we subscribe wholesale to the 'source documents' and to 'convention' (whatever that means). What 'source documents' are these ?

Let's take a famous work. The opera 'Le Nozze di Figaro'. You can see the autograph for yourself. It's even being sold in reproduction by the Packard Institute on the internet. Wow ! See it for yourself ! There it is - indisputable evidence of Mozart's musical genius. The icon himself. From 1786. Right before your very eyes. The ACTUAL musical score. Who could argue with that ? I mean, a million experts can't be wrong, can they ? (What 'experts' is never said).

http://mozartfacsimiles.org/mf/samples.html

Well, the first thing is, it's NOT actually an 'autograph' score ! Let me repeat this. It's NOT an 'autograph' score at all. It was actually made years later. In fact 'Le Nozze di Figaro' was first published long after the time of Mozart's death. But let's not spoil the party. Let's continue to reject all conspiracy theory and take ourselves to the Austrian National Library. Where, if you are polite enough and rich enough, you can make a microfiche of the little known, ACTUAL, musical score used in Vienna at the premiere of 'Le Nozze di Figaro' on 1st May 1786. It's quite a document, you may agree. Does that matter ? Surely it does ! But not in 'Mozart Studies'. It's kept there in that library in 2 volumes. Strange, yes ? What does this document show us ? I mean, is it relevant ? Well, the first thing you will find out is nobody studies it ! Not even the Mozarteum in Salzburg !! Nor do any publications on that work in print. They never have. Isn't that strange ? There are no articles on its contents. Not one. Nor has anyone else examined it. Strange, yes ? Till 2008. When its contents were at last examined independently by Bianchini/Trombetta of Italy (experts in 18th century opera) and their published report was shown to an amazed Mozartean 'establishment'. And nor has anyone else studied that score today in the entire Mozart world of 'expertise' ! Strange, yes ? But if this is not strange, then, let's look for a definition of what 'strange' means. On such a world famous opera.

Let's forget conspiracy theories and now examine the contents of this particular document. This being the actual score used at the Vienna premiere in May of 1786. Wow ! What does it contain ? It contains so many clear examples of basic musical errors that it's virtually unplayable/unperformable. Ask ANY teacher of music to examine it for you and listen to their judgement on its contents. Perhaps this explains why this very production was booed and hissed off the stage there in Vienna in a few days during that May of 1786 in Vienna ? (Since the newspapers of the time said so). It's nothing but a hastily made and clumsy ARRANGEMENT of music that already existed with a German (yes, German) text. Newly cobbled together as an Italian language arrangement by Mozart and his friend Lorenzo da Ponte for that 'premiere' of May 1786. As an 'autograph' of that music it's sheer nonsense. But that's exactly what Mozart/da Ponte made and provided for that Vienna 'premiere'. So much for the 'autograph', yes ?

Let's ignore such damning evidence. Let's continue to celebrate the genius of Mozart regardless of actual evidence, on score after score, chapter after chapter, of indisputable, documentary, verifiable evidence. And let's not subscribe to 'outrageous conspiracy theories'. Let's subscribe, instead, to conspiracy facts.

Let us, during this transition period, above everything else, pretend we are 'educated' and 'cultured' while the entire universe fills itself with fantasies, fakes, wholesale exaggerations and false attributions on W.A. Mozart alone, from items K1 to KV 626 in the Mozart catalogue. And, as for criticism (an essential part of any valid science or academic study) let us leave such irrelevancies to one side in our conservative, elitist fashion, while the entire music industry laughs its way to the bank, and while the corporate delusion continues, at the expense of the education of students, of course - also ignoring (in our time honoured fashion) the lives and musical achievements of countless unknown composers. Whose music goes unperformed, unpublished and completely ignored decade after decade and century after century. This, we believe, is 'culture' and 'education'.

Welcome to the new world order of fraternal control of what is taught, believed and performed in the name of the Salzburg 'genius' - and of musical achievement - ('genius' being a term never defined, of course, and applying only to the cardboard creation of the usual mythmakers of western civilization).

I do not blame you. Teddy bears and Mozart are much more cuddly and iconic than the hard job of convincing St Luke's Guild that honesty actually matters. That music and its history matters also. But that's my priority. It always has been - to persuade those who care to examine the evidence (evidence of many kinds) there is a subject worthy of their attention.

Thank you to Brian - the Chopin was wonderful, yes ?

Herr Bach
Aria
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWKCVy6nZhw&feature=related

and -

Aria

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW9Wl2I8cas&feature=related

Regards

stlukesguild

10-22-2010, 05:09 PM

Robert... the problem with your theories is that you cite endless documents as proof of your position that no one except musicologists and music historians would care to investigate or refute. And yet you have not convinced the least percentage of those who are indeed experts in the field. Of course you counter that this is but proof of how ingrained the conspiracy is... which puts the anyone else in a no win situation... or rather you would have the non-expert audience take your word... the word of an amateur... over that of all the professionals and experts in the field. If you had indisputable proof as to the falsehood of Mozart's achievements... or even enough proof to warrant serious doubts... there would be any number of academics jumping upon the information. But such is not the case. Until such time, I think I'll stick with the majority view of the "experts" in the field and believe that Mozart, Haydn, and Beethoven wrote most of what is attributed to them, Shakespeare wrote Hamlet, King Lear, Othello, etc... and Niel Armstrong walked on the moon.

By the way... I don't see how the notion that a single composer wrote all that is attributed to Mozart or Haydn can be imagined as any more fantastic than the notion that J.S. Bach wrote all that is attributed to him. Hell, Bach's oeuvre dwarfs that of Mozart and Haydn combined. 224 cantatas alone... and this is just what has come down to us. There may have been as many as 400. Two complete passions with a Passion of St. Luke and passion of St. Mark largely lost. Some 10-15 CDs worth of solo music for the organ. Bach (and Handel) far away overwhelm me in terms of their musical output and its consistent high quality.

yanni

10-23-2010, 01:34 AM

The problem with Robert's theory is his total "indifference" to historical facts, to then "hang it all on Rome" as if dogmas, and not other geopolitical differences, were behind 18th/19th centuries wars.

Here is his opinion on the "Mizler Music Society" of which Handel/Bach "both" were members:

One of the more remarkable 'coincidences' of musical history - you might care to examine the list of the members of the short-lived 'Korrespondierenden Sozietät der Musicalischen Wissenschaften' (Corresponding Society of the Musical Sciences) actually founded by young Mizler (actually managed by the Lucchesini clan and by others in 1738). (Lucchesinis being of course ecclesiastical elites in Rome and Marquis in Lucca before that).

Among the very few data known on this "G.Lucchesini" and his "Roman clan" is the fact that he, a servant of Rome(!), was Prussia's embassador to Paris in 1805, a critical year for Prussia's future(!!):

Only one solution remained whereby Prussia could take possession of Hanover: that it break with London and close the North Sea and Baltic ports to merchant ships sailing under the British flag. At length, Haugwitz was trapped and feared that further prevarication would cause Napoleon with each passing day to dictate stiffer terms to the proposed Treaty of Schönbrunn and refuse to grant tomorrow what he offered today. With a feeling of dread, he signed the new treaty on February 15. Naturally anxious to avoid the wrath of the King, the Queen and their advisors, Haugwitz chose the Prussian ambassador to Paris, the Marquis of Lucchesini, to take the dispatches to Berlin, where fearing that Napoleon would retract his offer of last resort, the treaty was ratified on February 25. When the news broke, a storm of outrage erupted in the Prussian capital, and the war faction, led by the Queen and Prince Louis Ferdinand, fuelled war hysteria with a stream of insult and abuse towards France in general and the Emperor in particular. Napoleon has all the more credit for persisting in his desire not to penalize Prussia too harshly despite its treachery and betrayal, given that two items of good news had arrived from across the English Channel… http://www.napoleonicsociety.com/english/chap17e.htm

Caveat emptor!

Musicology

10-23-2010, 08:47 AM

StLukesGuild,

You may be right. But the 'experts' seem to be on a long holiday and the 'endless documents' suggest why. Let's look through the widening gaps in their cardboard fence.

Ich will nur dir zu Ehren leben
Werner Güra

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEyT_yfdllE&feature=related

Robert

Robert... the problem with your theories is that you cite endless documents as proof of your position that no one except musicologists and music historians would care to investigate or refute. And yet you have not convinced the least percentage of those who are indeed experts in the field. Of course you counter that this is but proof of how ingrained the conspiracy is... which puts the anyone else in a no win situation... or rather you would have the non-expert audience take your word... the word of an amateur... over that of all the professionals and experts in the field. If you had indisputable proof as to the falsehood of Mozart's achievements... or even enough proof to warrant serious doubts... there would be any number of academics jumping upon the information. But such is not the case. Until such time, I think I'll stick with the majority view of the "experts" in the field and believe that Mozart, Haydn, and Beethoven wrote most of what is attributed to them, Shakespeare wrote Hamlet, King Lear, Othello, etc... and Niel Armstrong walked on the moon.

By the way... I don't see how the notion that a single composer wrote all that is attributed to Mozart or Haydn can be imagined as any more fantastic than the notion that J.S. Bach wrote all that is attributed to him. Hell, Bach's oeuvre dwarfs that of Mozart and Haydn combined. 224 cantatas alone... and this is just what has come down to us. There may have been as many as 400. Two complete passions with a Passion of St. Luke and passion of St. Mark largely lost. Some 10-15 CDs worth of solo music for the organ. Bach (and Handel) far away overwhelm me in terms of their musical output and its consistent high quality.

The problem is that cultural fascism (a 'new kid on the block' only 200 years old and artificially bloated to enormous size by huge commerical and academic success at the hands of global occultism - this foisted on an unsuspecting world in the name of 'the history of music' and today posing as a genuine branch of musicology) has constructed and managed a carboard fence of their own design around music and musical achievement with minimal criticism - all done in the name of musicology - obscuring from view, by design, 99.99% of its reality by deliberate and indisputable acts of biographical and musical falsification, gross exaggeration, fraternal control, suppression, lack of criticism and biographical invention with the result having all the features of pagan idolatry - so we as consumers know less of it than the music of ancient Egypt, Babylon, China, Greece, or Imperial Rome. And we, in this most undeniable state of ignorance have the audacity to call it 'education' and 'western musical culture'. While its critics are ignored.

(The thing to do is look behind the gaping holes in their purple cardboard curtain. While its guardians, its 'experts' are on so long a holiday).

Better still, let's nail our findings to their 'church' doors. ! Please pass me a nail and hammer ! Then we can have a tea and laugh at it all.

LOL :smile5:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEyT_yfdllE&feature=related

The problem with Robert's theory is his total "indifference" to historical facts, to then "hang it all on Rome" as if dogmas, and not other geopolitical differences, were behind 18th/19th centuries wars.

Here is his opinion on the "Mizler Music Society" of which Handel/Bach "both" were members:

One of the more remarkable 'coincidences' of musical history - you might care to examine the list of the members of the short-lived 'Korrespondierenden Sozietät der Musicalischen Wissenschaften' (Corresponding Society of the Musical Sciences) actually founded by young Mizler (actually managed by the Lucchesini clan and by others in 1738). (Lucchesinis being of course ecclesiastical elites in Rome and Marquis in Lucca before that).

Among the very few data known on this "G.Lucchesini" and his "Roman clan" is the fact that he, a servant of Rome(!), was Prussia's embassador to Paris in 1805, a critical year for Prussia's future(!!):

Only one solution remained whereby Prussia could take possession of Hanover: that it break with London and close the North Sea and Baltic ports to merchant ships sailing under the British flag. At length, Haugwitz was trapped and feared that further prevarication would cause Napoleon with each passing day to dictate stiffer terms to the proposed Treaty of Schönbrunn and refuse to grant tomorrow what he offered today. With a feeling of dread, he signed the new treaty on February 15. Naturally anxious to avoid the wrath of the King, the Queen and their advisors, Haugwitz chose the Prussian ambassador to Paris, the Marquis of Lucchesini, to take the dispatches to Berlin, where fearing that Napoleon would retract his offer of last resort, the treaty was ratified on February 25. When the news broke, a storm of outrage erupted in the Prussian capital, and the war faction, led by the Queen and Prince Louis Ferdinand, fuelled war hysteria with a stream of insult and abuse towards France in general and the Emperor in particular. Napoleon has all the more credit for persisting in his desire not to penalize Prussia too harshly despite its treachery and betrayal, given that two items of good news had arrived from across the English Channel… http://www.napoleonicsociety.com/english/chap17e.htm

Caveat emptor!

stlukesguild

10-23-2010, 10:37 AM

Like the "classical era", the Baroque was largely ignored... with the exceptions of J.S. Bach, Vivaldi, and Handel... and for years there were limitations as to what was known of or accessible by these composers. In the mid-20th century there was a continual on-going dispute between hard-core Modernists and latent Romantics as to the direction music SHOULD take. The Modernists insisted that tonal music was dead and that any effort at tonal composition was but proof that the composer was a reactionary still stuck in the 19th century. Tonal composers, on the other hand, argued that Romanticism was the natural language of music while the majority of Modernism was but the un-listenable experimentation of composers living in an ivory tower.

At the height of this dispute, the younger generation of composers began to explore possibilities beyond this unsustainable dichotomy. They were especially attracted to non-Western musical traditions, and to earlier forms of the Western musical tradition that had been long ignored. One of the consequences of this renewed interest was the development of the Historically Informed Performance (HIP) approach to music... especially the Baroque. Conductors began to make serious study of the music of Baroque composers, the instruments they employed, the size of their musical ensembles, the manner of playing or singing. With this movement the vast oeuvres of Vivaldi, Handel, and especially J.S. Bach were uncovered... and given new life. At the same time, other worthy composers... the compatriots of Bach, Handel, and Vivaldi were "rediscovered": Rameau, Monteverdi, Domenico and Alessandro Scarlatti, Lully, Zelenka, Palestrina, Sweelinck, Buxtehude, Couperin, Byrd, Purcell, Dowland, and many more.

One of the giants of the Baroque era was the composer, Johann Adolph Hasse. Hasse and Telemann were perhaps the two most dominant composers of the era. Hasse was born near Hamburg and traveled to Naples in his early twenties where he began to develop the more "Italianate" style to his music. He studied with Alessandro Scarlatti, became friends with Pietro Metastasio, the leading opera librettist of the era, and married the soprano Faustina Bordoni. He was appointed Kapellmeister at the powerful and culturally sophisticated Dresden court, a position which J.S. Bach envied as a result of the quality musical establishment Dresden maintained. Bach is thought to have attended the premiere of Johann Adolf Hasse's opera Cleofide, and spoken well of it, while his son C.P.E. Bach suggests that his father and Hasse became good friends.

In spite of his position as Kapellmeister, Hasse continued to travel extensively... especially throughout Italy... but including extended periods spent in Vienna, Poland, and Paris. In Venice and Naples his operas were given lavish productions that made them the model for opera throughout Europe. He became a beloved by many of the European courts. He was the favorite Marie-Theresa, Empress of the Habsburg Empire during his stay in Vienna, two of his operatic arias were performed every night for a decade for Philip V of Spain, and many of his flute concertos were written for Frederick the Great, a keen flute player.

Hasse's reputation began to decline in his later years. Returning to Dresden after the Seven Years War, Hasse found much of his home destroyed and the musical apparatus of the court opera wrecked. His patron, the Emperor Friedrich August II died soon after and his successor, deemed elaborate musical events at the court superfluous. Hasse and Faustina were paid two years' wages and let go. Hasse returned to Vienna, but discovered that his music and the librettos of Metastasian were under attack by the avant garde reforms of Christoph Willibald Gluck. Hasse spent the final ten years of his life in Venice, teaching and composing sacred works. His music was almost completely forgotten following his death, with the exception of some of the sacred works which continued to be performed throughout Germany. It was only toward the end of the 20th century that the vast oeuvre of Hasse began to resurface along with that of many other Baroque composers.

Hasse's sacred works are surely quite lovely... and exhibit a theatrical, driving rhythm. His works exhibit elements that are at once Italianate in the lightness of touch and Germanicin their rhythmic solidity and complexity:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEmeO9pF6c4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWutuX7oUoY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfr_AUvF-70&feature=related

yanni

10-23-2010, 11:13 AM

Don't want to focus on Lucchesini and his 1805 appointment as Prussia's embassador to Paris?

I understand, the more so because his name is so closely related to Lucchesi* and "enlightment"!

Here is the late Taboga's reconstruction of Lucchesi's curious association with the electors of Kurkoeln, Haydn, Mozart and his brother in law, "Ferdinand d'Anthoin", all yours to interpret:
http://b7w.co.uk/Classical/Period/Classical/Luchesi.asp

*For laughs, Wikipedia: Andrea Luchesi was nominated official court Kapellmeister in 1774. He acquired the principality's citizenship and in 1775 married Anthonetta Josepha d'Anthoin, daughter of Maximilian Friederich's senior counselor. With the exception of a visit to Venice in 1783-84, he lived in Bonn until his death in 1801, although his role as Kapellmeister ended in 1794, when the French invasion troops suppressed the court.

The problem is that cultural fascism (a 'new kid on the block' only 200 years old and artificially bloated to enormous size by huge commerical and academic success at the hands of global occultism - this foisted on an unsuspecting world in the name of 'the history of music' and today posing as a genuine branch of musicology) has constructed and managed a carboard fence of their own design around music and musical achievement with minimal criticism - all done in the name of musicology - obscuring from view, by design, 99.99% of its reality by deliberate and indisputable acts of biographical and musical falsification, gross exaggeration, fraternal control, suppression, lack of criticism and biographical invention with the result having all the features of pagan idolatry - so we as consumers know less of it than the music of ancient Egypt, Babylon, China, Greece, or Imperial Rome. And we, in this most undeniable state of ignorance have the audacity to call it 'education' and 'western musical culture'. While its critics are ignored.

(The thing to do is look behind the gaping holes in their purple cardboard curtain. While its guardians, its 'experts' are on so long a holiday).

Better still, let's nail our findings to their 'church' doors. ! Please pass me a nail and hammer ! Then we can have a tea and laugh at it all.

LOL :smile5:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEyT_yfdllE&feature=related

yanni

10-23-2010, 11:41 AM

One of the giants of the Baroque era was the composer, Johann Adolph Hasse. Hasse and Telemann were perhaps the two most dominant composers of the era.

They certainly were but I wouldn't place a bet on their identity!

Musicology

10-23-2010, 12:42 PM

Old Man River
Jim Croce

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw_jU_WEK60

yanni

10-23-2010, 12:51 PM

Giovanni Boccaccio:

Il Decameron Di Messer Giovanni Boccaccio
London-Thomas Edlin, 1725. Very Good Book A scarce edition of this famous and important work with an interesting provenance. Bound in leather with gilt lettering and decoration. This edition ofTheDecameron is a direct reprint of the 1527 edition, including the frontispiece and title page, with additional editorial matter. Includes two engraved plates, the frontispiece by Baron after Grisoni and a portrait of Boccaccio engraved by Auber. With the ink signature of Frederick Nicolay to the 1527 title page. Withthededication by Paolo Rolli. The three-pagelist of subscribers includes numerous eminent names. Paolo Antonio Rolli, 1687 1765, was an Italian librettistand poet. Hewas trained by Gian Vincenzo Gravina, andworked in London from 171544. He wrote librettos for numerous Italian operas, and worked frequently with composer Giovanni Bononcini. In addition to his work as a libretist, Rolli wrote poetry, cantata texts, satires and translations. Rolli published an Italian verse translation of Milton's Paradise Lost, widely considered the finest in any language. Frederick de Nicolay was born in Saxe-Gotha and died 16 May 1809 at St James Palace, London. Frederick was introduced to King George III, with whom he became a very great favourite, andremained ever after the confidential friend of both their Majesties, as well as of their family. He lived in St. James's Palace. Nicolay became Chief Clerk to the British Treasury. Condition: The binding is tight and firm. The front board is missing, and the rear board and free-endpaper are detached. There is wear to the extremities, including rubbing and discoloured marks, with loss to the spine, including the spine label. Internally however the pagesare brightwith only some intermittent light background spots, becoming prominent to the first few pages only as to be expected. The front free-endpaper has a very small section missing to the top corner. Overall the condition is fair but with a very good interior and would make a very good copy once rebound. Priced to allow for the excellent binding it deserves.
[Bookseller: Alibris]

Obviously a Saxegothan with strong links to pre 1725 Florence!

:angelsad2:

Musicology

10-23-2010, 04:54 PM

Mihali Mosonyi (1815-70)
Piano Concerto in E Minor

Hungarian Composer

(Excerpt)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LUCs99ly4Y&feature=related

LitNetIsGreat

10-23-2010, 07:16 PM

Old Man River
Jim Croce

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw_jU_WEK60

My grandfather years ago told me that he wanted this played at his funeral, though the Paul Robeson version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh9WayN7R-s

Let's hear it for Neely's grandfather, such a top fella. :gnorsi:

Still handing in there...

oshima

10-23-2010, 10:12 PM

I've been listening repeatedly to a London Symphony Orchestra recording Brahms Serenade No. 1 in D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlY-c84HPSA&feature=related

L.M. The Third

10-23-2010, 11:31 PM

Thanks for the Haydn suggestions, stlukes.
I'm currently listening to contralto Maureen Forrester singing Purcell songs and arias from Serse.

stlukesguild

10-24-2010, 10:40 AM

For anyone who loves Mozart's operas the recent series of recordings by Rene Jacobs are an absolute must. These historically informed performances bring a muscularity and a clarity to the music that is often obfuscated by performances employing large romantic-scale orchestras. Rene Jacobs' recordings have absolutely shaken up the world of Mozart's operas. Earlier operas that were once largely ignored such as La Clemenza di Titto, and Idomeneo Re de Creta are put forth which such clarity of thought and intensity that they are at last recognized for what they are, some of the greatest operas of the time... excepting only Mozart's own later efforts.

Currently I'm listening to the long awaited Jacobs recording of Die Zaubertflote (The Magic Flute), perhaps the most beloved... certainly the most magical and most tuneful of Mozart's operas. The deluxe packaging alone with a beautiful cardboard box with hidden storage panels and a 300+ page book with the full libretto are enough alone to seduce the Mozartian or general opera or classical music lover.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkObIajZcTc

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1204/5110615028_be314b890c.jpg

Jacobs takes the work at a brisk pace... perfectly capturing the humor and unabashed joy of this work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keS32PjGBKY&feature=related

The sound quality... as should be expected of most Harmonia Mundi recordings... is spectacular. The stripped-down orchestrations allows one to hear all of the layers of Mozart's musical composition... even the piano forte continuo. The use of the piano forte continuo lends the music a music hall-like atmosphere... perfectly suited to this great "singspiel"The singers are splendid, if not quite of the caliber of Otto Klemperers recording with Christa Ludwig, Elizabeth Schwarzkopf, Nicolai Gedda, Walter Berry, and Gundula Janowitz, which is the standard by which all others are measured. Jacobs' singers, however are perfectly suited to their roles... and to his manner of performance. Daniel Behle's Tamino has a beautiful, aristocratic tenor. Daniel Schmutzhard has the ideal humorous intonation (and the perfect name:lol: ) needed to play Papageno. Marlis Peterson is a sweet and lovely voice to play Pamina... the love interest of the opera.

Of course the ultimate measure of any Magic Flute are the notoriously difficult arias of the Queen of the Night. Lucia Popp may forever own these as unrivaled in her lightness and fluidity:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ufeyarJxNQ

Although much must be said for Patricia Petibon's recent emotion-laden recording of the Queen of the Night's arias:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNKEGjLSDpo

The Magic Flute remains one of my most beloved operas... it is quite likely my first choice for as my personal favorite. It was the first opera I ever watched ... in a production from the Vienna State Opera broadcast a good many years ago. It was the first opera I ever took my wife to... with the spectacular and truly magical set and costume designs by Maurice Sendak:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1351/5110179417_5118e0318b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1264/5110779470_d24001de57_z.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1339/5110779582_19e396deb1.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4147/5110179547_64b22174bb.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1217/5110779620_6f7d3cc2a4.jpghttp://farm2.static.flickr.com/1256/5110179597_c48fb8d704.jpg

Otto Klemperer's version has long been one of my favorite opera recordings... with perhaps the greatest collection of singers ever amassed for a single production... And now Rene Jacobs new recording stands as the crowning jewel to his historically informed performances of Mozart.

Highly Recommended!:nod:

Musicology

10-24-2010, 01:49 PM

Yes, wonderful piece !!

I've been listening repeatedly to a London Symphony Orchestra recording Brahms Serenade No. 1 in D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlY-c84HPSA&feature=related

Alexander Glazunov
Symphony No. 4
1st Movement

(Start)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoqDw29LgyI

Emil Miller

10-24-2010, 06:47 PM

Yes, wonderful piece !!

It is amazing how the musical technique of Brahms in this early work can be so readily recognised in the mature works of the composer.
As a germanophile I consider Brahms to be a truly great representative of German music, especially in his acknowledgement of Bach.
I was delighted to find on Youtube this wonderful work based on student drinking songs and dedicated to academia, which was my first introduction to this piece. If the ending doesn't thrill, the listener is obviously missing something. Barbirolli, Brahms and the musicians of the New York Philharmonic show that if human beings are worth anything it's performances such as these that prove it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJk2dfheyVw

Musicology

10-25-2010, 06:08 AM

Wonderful stuff Brian. And this -

Johannes Brahms
Variations on a Theme of Haydn
Berlin Philharmonic
Furtwangler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF9-xd9bejw&feature=related

Claudio Monteverdi (1567-1643) -
Secular Madrigal/Duetto
Zefiro Torna E Di Soavi Accenti
c. 1640

http://www.mediafire.com/?8ri8swbzerqnrjn

Gustav Mahler (1860-1911)

http://www.last.fm/music/Gustav+Mahler

Symphony No. 4
3rd Movement
Ruhevoll, poco adagio

Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra
Leonard Bernstein

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyw7bMYoqDI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUlAWItz_U0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0uxQmnBhxk&feature=related

Emil Miller

10-27-2010, 05:38 PM

Gustav Mahler (1860-1911)

http://www.last.fm/music/Gustav+Mahler

Symphony No. 4
3rd Movement
Ruhevoll, poco adagio

Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra
Leonard Bernstein

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyw7bMYoqDI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUlAWItz_U0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0uxQmnBhxk&feature=related

Thanks for posting this Mahler, it is a symphony that I have neglected for his more frequently recorded works. It is quite magical and when Edith Mathis sings:
" Wir fuhren ein englisches Leben.
" Sind dennoch ganz lustig daneben."
I really did laugh out loud, remembering the fun I had in the Germany
of my younger days.

Musicology

10-28-2010, 05:47 AM

It's a quite wonderful symphony, yes ? One of those great works that never seems to end, and never should.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCsnpVYetMg&feature=related

Thanks for posting this Mahler, it is a symphony that I have neglected for his more frequently recorded works. It is quite magical and when Edith Mathis sings:
" Wir fuhren ein englisches Leben.
" Sind dennoch ganz lustig daneben."
I really did laugh out loud, remembering the fun I had in the Germany
of my younger days.

Jean Sibelius
Karelia Suite
Op.11 (1893)
Alla marcia

(Must take one every day, with fresh water) LOL !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIois3Gaegk&feature=related

LitNetIsGreat

10-28-2010, 07:58 AM

Just been listening to Francesco Geminiani's wonderful cello sonatas, there's one here (not the same performance I've been listening to, from Naxos, but just thought I'd share it nevertheless).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWprj8JJMM8

Emil Miller

10-28-2010, 05:18 PM

I have recently been struggling to play this piece on the piano and have just found this video of the late Maureen Forrester singing it. I was blown away by her appearance in a performance of Mahler's 2nd symphony in London some years ago. Hers was truly a great voice as evidenced here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhN-fOdD7Jc

Musicology

10-29-2010, 06:12 AM

Jean Sibelius
Karelia Suite
Op. 11 (1893)
Opening
Royal Philharmonic Orchestra
Sir Charles Mackerass

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtIw5AkUEsE&feature=related

Ludwig van Beethoven
Concerto No. 1
1st Movement
Soloist: Murray Perahia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYg2FxJVN2c

Ludwig van Beethoven
Concerto No. 4
(End of 1st movement)
Soloist: Murray Perahia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdfpaMpRvpo

Ludwig van Beethoven
Concerto No. 3
Soloist - Murray Perahia
1st Movement (ending)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaiL0LL6u8o&p=D959ACF2BE83C081&playnext=1&index=10

Ludwig van Beethoven
Concerto No 5
Second Movement
Adagio un poco mosso
Soloist: Murray Perahia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ideg2Ek0kdc&feature=related

Johann Sebastian Bach
Magnificat
BWV 243

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUEFsxDkGVE&feature=related

JS Bach
Aria
Cantata 34

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2JfLwVvcl8&NR=1

LitNetIsGreat

11-03-2010, 04:31 PM

I've been spending the last hour or so listening to several different versions of Scarborough Fair, it's such a great song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JgaZ73M-Ms&feature=related
I'm in that mood...

Wilde woman

11-03-2010, 08:55 PM

It's Kreisler for me tonight, as I re-read King Lear.

Musicology

11-04-2010, 10:48 AM

Far, far above, and ever present.

Chorus from BWV 248

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLLYsoHF9pg&feature=related

Antonin Dvorak
Symphony
'From the New World'
Scherzo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSSVSOhGMq8&feature=related

Antonin Dvorak
Nocturne for String Orchestra in B Major
Op.40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DayCXpRoE_c

Petrarch's Love

11-05-2010, 01:40 AM

It's Kreisler for me tonight, as I re-read King Lear.

Does Kreisler's violin pair well with Lear, or is this simply coincidental? Your post makes me realize that I don't believe that this thread has ever involved a discussion of something I imagine its participants do constantly, which is listening to music while reading. Do people here consciously choose certain pieces to listen to when reading certain types of literature or specific literary works? Or are there musical pieces you associate with certain books or passages because you were listening to that music when you read them the first time? I often have music playing in the background while reading, and find it's important to have a fairly good match between the music and the text (though if I'm reading poetry for the first time or in a particularly attentive way I generally need to have a quiet room so that I can hear only the language). Sometimes when re-reading something I already know well I have a whole play list going and go back and forth between pieces as though I was making my own personal movie score for my reading experience. I know that when I was doing my reading for my oral exam year, I thought a lot about how to pair my music and my reading because pretty much all I was doing was listening to music and reading. A certain passage in Mozart's Requiem still reminds me of Camilla's death in the Aeneid, for example. I also tended to listen to certain types of scenes with the same piece. For example, for scenes of pleasure loving ladies tempting knights (something that happens a lot in Medieval literature) I tended to turn on the flower duet from Lakme:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qx2lMaMsl8

or an appropriate excerpt from Wagner's Parsifal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ3gisZoIws

I found that an unintentional benefit to was that the music helped me remember where similar types of passages appeared in different works, which helped me in my exam. So...classical music as the path to doctoral exam success.

Does anyone else think about the music reading pairing thing, or am I just betraying my phenomenal geekiness? :D

LitNetIsGreat

11-05-2010, 04:43 AM

I very rarely listen to music and read together at the same time. I will listen to music and do other things, like write or browse the internet, but when it comes to reading I like it quiet.

Musicology

11-05-2010, 06:31 AM

JS Bach
A Little 3 Part Invention in G Major
BWV 796/10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pdQuxqhJiY&feature=related

JS Bach
Invention in A Major
BWV 783

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc7Zk33ImNI&feature=related

JS Bach
Chromatic Fantasy in D Minor
BWV 903/1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtKS5v1kqQ4&feature=related

Lokasenna

11-05-2010, 09:06 AM

I went to a university-sponsered concert the other evening, where Raphael Wallfisch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raphael_Wallfisch) gave a complete run-through of Bach's cello suites. It was... not brilliant, and certainly not a patch on the previous year's visit by Pascal Rogé (who produced a very thoughtful programme of Chopin, Debussy and Fauré, and was probably the finest concert I have ever been to in my life).

I have a reasonably difficult relationship with Bach at the best of times, and the cello suites really aren't designed to be played back-to-back. Maybe I was expecting too much, but even my fairly average ears could pick out the many dissonances, wrong keys and off notes. Of course, the suites were not designed for a modern cello, which does make them harder to play. But Wallfisch himself seemed distracted... at times, we were listening to a world-class cellist playing beautifully, and at others he seemed to either be barely in control of his instrument, or else functioning on auto-pilot. His rendition of the 5th suite was utterly masterful (and worth the price of admission alone), but it seemed a completely different creature from his rather jarring, chaotic interpretation of the 2nd suite.

One of the friends who went with me is a musicologist, and he wasn't impressed either. But maybe the fellow was having a bad day? Who knows...

Anyway, right now I'm consoling myself (and putting off some work) with a wonderful selection of Saint-Saens that my friend has lent me - I'm really falling in love with his style.

Musicology

11-05-2010, 12:13 PM

Hi Lokasenna,

To me, those Cello Suites are often inaccessible. But at other times I really get in to them. It's a strange relationship I have with them.

Patrick_Bateman

11-05-2010, 02:31 PM

The Rach Man arrived today via Amazon

Emil Miller

11-05-2010, 06:49 PM

Anyway, right now I'm consoling myself (and putting off some work) with a wonderful selection of Saint-Saens that my friend has lent me - I'm really falling in love with his style.

Camille Saint-Saens is one of French music's great masters. The piano concertos are all worth hearing, not just the second, and his Organ Symphony is simply out of this world. I know it's become one of the standard symphonic works in the repertoire, but listening to it tells the listener more about France than reading any amount of books about the country.

Wilde woman

11-05-2010, 07:19 PM

Does anyone else think about the music reading pairing thing, or am I just betraying my phenomenal geekiness? :D

It is geeky, but you're definitely not alone! :biggrin5: I'll usually put on classical when I'm reading for class, because I cannot focus if there are vocals. I favor the Romantics, so I'll consciously put on Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff, Saint-Saens, or Dvorak. I noticed the other night that Carmina Burana seems to complement Beroul's Tristan, and Beethoven's piano sonatas made me a happy camper while I was reading Benjamin's Illuminations.

But, like you, if I'm reading poetry, it has to be silent.

Does Kreisler's violin pair well with Lear, or is this simply coincidental?

You know, you're right! I hadn't consciously thought to pair Lear with Kreisler (I was playing some of his shorter violin/piano pieces), but it put me in an especially good mood to read the play. The adjective that jumps to mind for me when I think of Kreisler is "sprightly", which definitely does NOT describe Lear, but I think it was such a nice contrast that it made for a productive reading experience.

A certain passage in Mozart's Requiem still reminds me of Camilla's death in the Aeneid, for example.

I can definitely see that working well.

So...classical music as the path to doctoral exam success.

Yes! Now I have a secret weapon! :smilewinkgrin:

Tobeornotobe

11-06-2010, 03:06 AM

Personally, I never hesitate myself from listening Shostakovich's symphonies. The ambiguity within his work thrills me very much. Besides, when I think about his uneasy relationship with Stalin during his reign in Soviet Union, I become mesmerized with his genius ability to reveal his hatred and loathsome towards Stalin.

Listen to the fourth movement of his fifth symphony. While Leonard Bernstein ends the symphony with a fast tempo, creating a hero's triumph over a conflict, Mravinsky slows down a bit, to emphasize the ugliness Shostakovich wants to depicts.

Lokasenna

11-06-2010, 06:03 AM

Camille Saint-Saens is one of French music's great masters. The piano concertos are all worth hearing, not just the second, and his Organ Symphony is simply out of this world. I know it's become one of the standard symphonic works in the repertoire, but listening to it tells the listener more about France than reading any amount of books about the country.

I couldn't agree more!

Musicology

11-06-2010, 05:13 PM

Samuel Barber
Violin Concerto
First Movement
Soloist - Hilary Hahn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2IPbc9Z6dA

Frederick Delius
Intermezzo 'La Calinda'
from
'Koanga'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6-UGlNyjn0&feature=related

George Butterworth
The Banks of Green Willow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOdFNwD_hPU

''There is this great difference between the works of men and the works of God, that the same minute and searching investigation, which displays the defects and imperfections of the one, brings out also the beauties of the other. If the most finely polished needle on which the art of man has been expended be subjected to a microscope, many inequalities, much roughness and clumsiness, will be seen. But if the microscope be brought to bear on the flowers of the field, no such result appears. Instead of their beauty diminishing, new beauties and still more delicate, that have escaped the naked eye, are forthwith discovered; beauties that make us appreciate, in a way which otherwise we could have had little conception of, the full force of the Lord's saying, "Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: and yet I say unto you, That even Solomon, in all his glory, was not arrayed like one of these." The same law appears also in comparing the Word of God and the most finished productions of men. There are spots and blemishes in the most admired productions of human genius. But the more the Scriptures are searched, the more minutely they are studied, the more their perfection appears; new beauties are brought into light every day; and the discoveries of science, the researches of the learned, and the labours of infidels, all alike conspire to illustrate the wonderful harmony of all the parts, and the Divine beauty that clothes the whole''.

(Alexander Hislop)

Duet
Cantata 80/2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2C6yKhdfTU&feature=related

Emil Miller

11-07-2010, 06:46 PM

Frederick Delius
Intermezzo 'La Calinda'
from
'Koanga'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6-UGlNyjn0&feature=related

Thanks for posting this video that I already posted some time ago on this thread. Although the music concerns the period when Delius was in the USA, it is essentially English in idiom. I think his music is sometimes over scored for the string section, which tends to slow down the music. La Calinda was re scored by the composer's amanuensis Eric Fenby and it is just perfect.

Musicology

11-09-2010, 08:18 AM

Antonio Vivaldi/J.S. Bach (arrangement)
Concerto
BWV 1065/3
English Concert
Trevor Pinnock

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA1L0SsEXxU&feature=related

J.S. Bach
BWV 205/1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33nKaU7UDwE

J.S. Bach
Cantata 11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkj4jf_yfvE

J.S. Bach
Cantata 70
Opening

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bON6vruJlug&feature=related

J.S. Bach
Cantata 190
'Singet dem Herrn eine Neues Lied'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCgp0cWs1kg&feature=related

Emil Miller

11-10-2010, 06:11 PM

This is from the celebrated recording by Sir Thomas Beecham and a brilliant cast that included Victoria de Los Angeles and Jussi Bjorling. It may be the greatest recording of any opera at any time. Listen to Beecham's wonderful conducting, it is as perfect as it could be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icDRcc0mrIQ

Musicology

11-11-2010, 01:43 PM

Ferdinando Carulli (1770-1841)
Guitar Concerto in A Major
3rd Movement

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmZGDcf_UZ0&feature=related

LitNetIsGreat

11-13-2010, 03:09 PM

Listening to the Rene Jacobs recording of Le nozze di Figaro. I've not listened to opera for a while, so a slight return is needed methinks.

Musicology

11-13-2010, 04:52 PM

Luigi Boccherini (1743-1805)
Minuet
Op.11 No. 5
(Orch)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fLPBIBOE5U&feature=related

Emil Miller

11-13-2010, 05:39 PM

This must surely be one of the greatest recordings ever made. I have loved it for years as it sets the standard for all others to follow and has yet to be bettered. Just an incredible performance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zdb94HbyRko

stlukesguild

11-14-2010, 01:53 PM

Henryk Górecki-(December 6, 1933 – November 12, 2010)

One of the great contemporary composers died Friday. Henryk Górecki was a Polish composer who became recognized as one of the leading figures of so-called "Holy Minimalism", the movement that included composers such as Arvo Pärt, John Tavener, John Rutter, Pēteris Vasks, Veljo Tormis, and Erkki-Sven Tüür:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/13/arts/music/13gorecki.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=Henryk%20G%C3%B3recki&st=cse

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henryk_G%C3%B3recki

Henryk Górecki was most know for his incredibly moving, passionate... even harrowing Symphony No. 3 (Symphony of Sorrowful Songs)... surely one of the greatest works of classical music in recent times:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miLV0o4AhE4

Other important works by the composer include the Quartet no. 3 (Songs are Sung):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiG1b__PFWo

and the Misere:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_BgG9b9KrE

RIP

mortalterror

11-15-2010, 01:23 AM

Musicology

11-15-2010, 06:51 AM

Robert Schumann
Concerto in A Minor
3rd Movement
Soloist - Dinu Lipatti
Orchestre de la Suisse Romande
Ernest Ansermet
Live Recording (1950)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmIENX7WIzo&feature=related

Patrick_Bateman

11-15-2010, 03:32 PM

Listening to the Rene Jacobs recording of Le nozze di Figaro. I've not listened to opera for a while, so a slight return is needed methinks.

Been listening to that opera recently too

stlukesguild

11-15-2010, 09:49 PM

That one passage from Gorecki's 3rd symphony is alright, although as a matter of principle I am opposed to minimalism. Sometimes, I'll here a song of Philip Glass or somebody's and think, well that passage was alright. Then when I listen some more it's just repeated ad nauseam. I wouldn't accept that kind of laziness from a writer who fills a novel with one page of material, and I won't have it in my music.

And yet you swear by that great American Minimalist, Hemingway.:D

Seriously, there is a huge difference between the American Minimalists who are more rigorously Minimalist in a strict formalist manner. The "Holy Minimalists", such as Gorecki, Tavener, and Part came to a more "minimal" style not as part of a formalist effort to strip music down to the bare essentials, but rather in response to older music... especially early choral music, chant, etc... In some ways, however, their efforts were just as daring in that the religious musical traditions they turned to were strictly prohibited by the Soviet/Communist regimes. The Polish composer, Penderecki began by embracing the examples of American Modernism as a form of rebellion against the limitations of the Polish Communist controls of music, but he would later turn to a more tonal... even "romantic" manner feeling that the Western Modernist represented just as great of a restriction upon musical expression. Many tied-in-the-wool Modernists dismiss Penderecki's later works as proof that the composer had sold out, but in reality, his embrace of tonalism and his focus upon music expressive of a deep-held faith was a form of rebellion against the limitations of both the Western Modernists and the Eastern Communists.

mortalterror

11-16-2010, 01:20 AM

And yet you swear by that great American Minimalist, Hemingway.:D
1) Don't let the name fool you. Minimalism in music and minimalism in literature are nothing alike. 2) Hemingway wasn't a minimalist.

Musicology

11-16-2010, 04:08 PM

Frederic Chopin
Sonata No. 3
4th Movement
Soloist - Dinu Lipatti
(1947)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9C4VdwDWJo&feature=fvst

Franz Schubert
Impromptu D899/3
Soloist - Dinu Lipatti

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSv0vC1vUbA

Frederic Chopin
Valse Brilliant
Soloist - Dinu Lipatti

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r08ZddiW74&feature=related

J.S. Bach
Triple Concerto
BWV 1064/1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGNxFbeM6DU

Counter Tenor Andreas Scholl
'Agnus Dei'
B Minor Mass
BWV 232

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvst&hl=en&v=tdLCcQixNvg&gl=US

Le Concert Francais
Pierre Hantai
JS Bach
Orchestral Suite No. 4 (1st Movement)
BWV 1069/1

Wow !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ukupdxyt7xo&feature=related

Patrick_Bateman

11-21-2010, 06:51 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-11790085

2 missing Vivaldi Sonatas discovered

oshima

11-23-2010, 06:28 PM

Musicology

11-25-2010, 09:46 AM

Anton Dvorak
Symphony No. 9
First Movement
'From the New World'
London Symphony Orchestra
Istvan Kertesz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R22PLfWDp48&feature=fvst

Doc Watson/Andy Griffith
Crawdad Hole

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJZ-esoK8J0

stlukesguild

11-25-2010, 12:38 PM

Currently listening to an old favorite from my teen years which I have not heard in some time: Tchaikovsky's Symphony no. 1 ("Winter Dreams") which arrived yesterday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seOq3JuUkjE

Musicology

11-27-2010, 06:19 PM

J.S. Bach
Air
From BWV 1068

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F4O84_y8ew&feature=related

Wilde woman

11-27-2010, 08:36 PM

Last week, I saw Olga Kern perform Rach's piano concerto #2 in brilliant fashion. Also on the menu were Dvorak's Carnival overture and Sibelius Symphony #1.

stlukesguild

11-28-2010, 01:02 AM

No classics for me tonight. I just got back from a birthday party at a local bar and I'm onto my fourth strong beer (this one is nearly 11%). It's Miles right now...

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5085/5213080617_6481497197.jpg

probably followed by some good old blues.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4127/5213086473_713c17a395.jpg

And back on track today...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4111/5216394181_14622e2de0.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6TxTIkWAiY

Gardiner, as always, is more muscular... and admittedly this video has some distortion issues.

There's nothing on line of Schütz' piece included here... but there is this lovely recording of his O Jesu, Nomen Dulce performed by the masterful Andreas Scholl.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TkRXQH5np8

Both composers were predecessors to J.S. Bach. There is a story of Bach walking several hundred miles to hear the organ works of Buxtehude... which are indeed wonderful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo3887Yf280&feature=related

Emil Miller

11-29-2010, 06:50 AM

Recently picked up 12 "transcendental" etudes by Liszt as performed by Alice Sara Ott. Being this is the first time I've heard these etudes, I can't say much about this interpretation, but I find her style graceful and elegant. Any suggestions for exceptional performances of these?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zu-R3aQlmN0

Liszt, who may have been the greatest performer ever, is usually more about technique than the music itself. I haven't heard these pieces before but I like this performance and Ms Ott sure is a looker.

stlukesguild

11-29-2010, 08:43 PM

Brian... don't underestimate Liszt. He was very influential well beyond his efforts as a performer (unlike Paganini). He was instrumental in the development of the Romantic concept of Program Music, or music intended to evoke extra-musical ideas, which would be built upon even by composers such as Schumann, who rejected Liszt's virtuosity. Most important in this area, were Liszt's Tone Poems or Symphonic Poems. Some of his later works push concepts verging upon Impressionism and dissonance/atonalism to such an extent that he would be cited as a major influence upon Scriabin, Debussy, Bartok, etc...

Too often his reputation for glitz and flash overwhelms his real achievements as a composer. Here are some marvelous piano works... and some of his orchestral pieces. Brian, as a fan of Richard Strauss you should be quite enamored of Liszt's orchestral music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejXPcv9MS7s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS5LRRsNYZk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-ZgGdw0XIM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxmRk3VeF_w&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jnQ_AKePPo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z36aWM3jYT8&feature=fvst

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRD5RralCgA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BZgte0ObLw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRa36DV6zJ8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiElvzlH4jY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFrCgUyiizQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkeKx1DxX4s&feature=related

Musicology

11-30-2010, 07:08 AM

Antonio Vivaldi
Concerto
RV 235/1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvWSVdcrPpY&feature=related

Emil Miller

11-30-2010, 11:50 AM

[QUOTE=stlukesguild;982748]Too often his reputation for glitz and flash overwhelms his real achievements as a composer. Here are some marvelous piano works... and some of his orchestral pieces. Brian, as a fan of Richard Strauss you should be quite enamored of Liszt's orchestral music. [[QUOTE]

Yes you are right. Some years ago I spent several weeks staying with a friend in China. On the day I was due to leave, I was packing my things and I could hear that she was listening to Liszt's Consolation No.3 in the living room.
I went into the room and she was crying.

I should have remembered that before posting my comment.

LitNetIsGreat

11-30-2010, 12:29 PM

Yes I quite like Lizst too. I'm currently listening to Stluke's links while drinking a nice cup of tea - enjoying it after today.

stlukesguild

12-02-2010, 02:58 AM

Tonight was an all lieder/art song evening. Perhaps its the cold weather... December and the first snow has fallen... that makes the intimacy of this art form seem best suited today.

I began listening to Jake Heggie's latest collection for the second time:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4148/5225112184_d48e3066cc.jpg

Heggie is one of the fastest rising young composers. He has several operatic successes to his name, including Dead Man Walking and his latest, the Houston opera production of Moby Dick. It is in the field of the art song, however, that he is strongest, and stands along side Ned Rorem and Samuel Barber as one of the leading figures in the tradition of that genre. It is no surprise that many leading singers look forward to working with Heggie and recording his work: Susann Graham, Renée Fleming, Jennifer Larmore, Brian Asawa, Frederica von Stade, etc... This particular collection is marvelously orchestrated with a variety of small string ensembles and piano, as well as voice. For those who recoil from the mere thought of contemporary classical composers, I recommend Heggie without reservation.

My second selection of the evening was a recent collection of Tchaikovsky "Romances" performed by Christianne Stotijn.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5089/5225342294_fef37e0906.jpg

While Tchaikovsky is admittedly not among the upper echelon of my preferred composers, I have always liked his songs or "romances," which are stripped clean of the lush and sometimes flowery orchestration that can at times make Tchaikovsky sound too saccharine. What remains is the composer's undeniable and masterful ability to compose the most beautiful melodies... again and again.

The first performance here is by the inimitable Galina Vishnevskaya with her husband, Mstislav Rostropovich on piano.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03DTZno7oYY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew_ox74xufk

I picked up this disc on the recommendation of BBC Music Magazine, and I must concur that the young Dutch singer performs these songs marvelously... with an appropriate rich, full, sensuality of voice. She will certainly be a singer to watch.

After the US and Russia, I headed off to warmer climes with a selection of art songs by Latin-American composers:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5209/5224872741_28cf11e5f6.jpg

I had toyed with picking up this disc for quite some time, intrigued by the less-well-known repertoire and certainly aware of Barnarda Fink's abilities... but for whatever reason, the price of the disc remained consistently high. When it finally fell to around $12 last week, I decided to spring for it... and fully wish I had done so earlier. This is a marvelous recording. The disc includes songs by composers Carlos Guastavino, Manuel Gomez, Carrillo, and a handful of others all unknown to me. Indeed, the only name with which I was familiar was that of Astor Piazzolla who is well known for his tangos. Here we are given three of his efforts in the genre of art song... including two settings of texts by J.L. Borges! The music is clearly rooted in the European tradition of the art song or lieder, but employs elements that are undeniably rooted in the Latin-American musical traditions... especially the rhythm. The music is beautifully performed by Bernarda Fink and her brother, Marcos Fink... both born and raised in Argentina of Slovenian parents.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeAom_k925c

My favorite song on the disc is Pueblito, mi pueblo by Guastavino, which is the final song. Sung as an exquisitely beautiful duet... unfortunately I could not find a recording of it on line by Fink and her brother, but YouTube does have a version which isn't half bad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcHdcPrkC_Y

Musicology

12-05-2010, 02:01 PM

Maurice Ravel
Le Tombeau de Couperin
Minuet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9qxy...eature=related

laymonite

12-06-2010, 04:12 PM

Hello everyone! I'm new to the thread here, and taking a deeper, more serious interest in classical music. It's taking me a while, but I'm trying to catch-up on this thread. There is a wealth of selections accumulated here!

Lately I've been listening to Schumann, Schubert, and this piece from Chopin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ef-4Bv5Ng0w

This Chopin preludes affects me on a profound level.

Lokasenna

12-06-2010, 04:54 PM

stlukesguild

12-06-2010, 08:10 PM

Yes... I love that prelude myself... although my favorite works by Chopin remain his Nocturnes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnFs85pLmj4

Right now I'm exploring some older music... more specifically, compositions by the German late Renaissance/early Baroque composer, Michael Praetorius (1571-1621):

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5249/5236766034_cd891a6804.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3p6nAaOmyU

Quite suited to the season and all that.

Musicology

12-07-2010, 07:16 AM

Is there life on planet Earth ? To answer this question we go straight across to mission control -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WrKyhgtOBA&feature=related

laymonite

12-07-2010, 10:49 AM

I'm listening to these 21 delightful nocturns at work today! All the hustle and bustle around me is fading into the background.

stlukesguild

12-07-2010, 10:41 PM

Me? I'm off in left-field (surely a true Americanism... tied to our national past-time)... listening to the music of Tomás Luis de Victoria and Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina performed by the ever-brilliant Hilliard Ensemble.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5250/5242356561_a49f172fcb.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBXBAUFTMLU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxe4HnEYbgA

Currently listening to one of the composers who did make Goulding's list of the 50 Greatest Composers.

Part 1 of a work of music that might arguably stand at the very pinnacle of music... if not all art:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5201/5244995515_ab7a2478b0.jpg

A lovely disc of American "art songs":

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5203/5247368757_ac2fbd083a.jpg

laymonite

12-11-2010, 09:14 PM

Picked up some new CDs today. This is the start of my classical collection!

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5044/5253017968_720c136e14_b.jpg

Lokasenna

12-12-2010, 04:35 AM

Picked up some new CDs today. This is the start of my classical collection!

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5044/5253017968_720c136e14_b.jpg

I've got both the Liszt and the Schumann - you will not be dissapointed by either!

Musicology

12-12-2010, 09:50 AM

Nice collection Laymonite !

Robert Schumann
Concerto in A Minor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTeAKJ539Is

stlukesguild

12-12-2010, 12:16 PM

Horowitz will also rarely disappoint. Schumann's piano works are quite lovely. The Chausson/Ravel/Debussy disc with Riccardo Muti is I believe a collection of sea-related works... including La Mer, which is a good introduction to Debussy and Impressionism in music. Thumbs up on the record labels here. All solid choices. As you start out keep your eye on EMI, DeutscheGrammaphon, Sony, Naxos, Phillips, Hyperion, Chandos, Harmonia Mundi, Archiv, Decca, CPO, Oiseau Lyre, Alia Vox Spain, and a few others which will usually employ the highest recording standards and the leading orchestras and soloists.

laymonite

12-13-2010, 05:39 PM

You guys are spot-on. The Liszt and the Schumann are spectacular! I began my Christmas vacation today (that's right: I'm off for the rest of the year!), so I went to one of my used book stores of choice and picked up Mahler's Symphony No. 5., along with some art books (Gauguin, Degas, and Matisse), and a book of Yeats's poetry.

Life is good.

stlukesguild

12-13-2010, 08:09 PM

Mahler? Now you are pushing into some music that can challenge you initially. Where Bach or Mozart or Beethoven or Schumann structure their music around a motif or melody or tune that can be rapidly grasped and then run it through variations, later Romantics like Mahler, Wagner, Bruckner, etc... structure their works on a more sprawling form. Don't get me wrong... I love Mahler and the late Romantics. Recently I've be exploring Richard Strauss' operas. His Salome is a masterpiece of German Expressionism combining the most sensuously lush music with often decadent and unsettling elements... or sheer shock as in the finale:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI02Rj5xhFM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJiFHv70WPo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Op1VoQXXARs&feature=related

Gilliatt Gurgle

12-14-2010, 09:42 PM

A wealth of inspiration here.
For the past few weeks, I've had Antonin Dvořák's - "Humoreska" stuck in my head.
I can't get enough of it, but I must force myself to move on.

Here are two recordings performed by three of the greats.

First Heifetz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB8mzdO3MnI

and now Perlman and Yo Yo Ma:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xaIH7lTiK4&feature=related

My son plays violin and is currently learning "Transylvanian Lullaby" from the movie "Young Frankenstein", which is great, but the old man wants to hear him play "Humoreska"!
It's tough getting a teenager to do what you want!

.

Emil Miller

12-16-2010, 02:14 PM

Here is the ultra glamorous Lola Astanova playing Rachmaninoff. I doubt that it would have received his seal of approval but even he would have given her top marks for technique. The ending really did make me laugh out loud.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPEd8AZX5dQ

This is probably the most incredible playing you will ever see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1fgo7hp-Ko

Musicology

12-16-2010, 05:26 PM

Missa in A Major
Kyrie
BWV 234/1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoTWZP8Ycx0&feature=related

Emil Miller

12-16-2010, 06:49 PM

And here is Yuja Wang playing the great romantic Mendelssohn piano concerto No1 in a terrific performance combining personal beauty with brilliant playing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0L_pAqLAi0

Musicology

12-17-2010, 09:13 AM

Sergi Prokofiev
Concerto No. 3
1st Movement
Live Peformance
RAI Orchestra
Turin 2008

Soloist - Martha Argerich

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL-HA4Heu2M

stlukesguild

12-22-2010, 01:33 AM

Recently I have been making some efforts to rectify a few areas of obvious short-comings in my music collection. I am currently on the look out for an entire Ring Cycle. I am also looking to get hold of a number of Verdi operas... which my collection is woefully devoid of... in spite of the fact that La Traviata is a personal favorite... and perhaps the first opera I ever saw (on television) while Aida was the first opera I ever saw in real life... the experience which absolutely seduced me and turned me into an opera lover.

Right now, however, I'm listening to a slew of Stravinsky's music which I picked up for next to nothing through secondary dealers on Amazon. The Naxos recordings are already grossly inexpensive... especially considering the quality of the Robert Craft recordings. I have long loved Stravinsky... but for whatever reason, my collection of his music has remained limited to a few of the obvious works: Petrouchka, the Firebird, Histoire du Soldat, and of course the Rite of Spring. Again... for whatever reason... over time I have acquired more music by Prokofiev, Shostakovitch, Bartok... and even Schoenberg... who I really don't like.:sosp:

Anyway... these discs go far toward rectifying this problem:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5287/5279462716_1397a73127.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5162/5279462664_d59dd352c1.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5121/5278809317_569a93413a.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5205/5267801796_326f3934e8.jpg

So far I've listened to the Greek Ballets twice through. The disc truly highlights Stravinsky's chameleon-like nature. The first ballet, Apollo, is quite classical in clarity of form. I most enjoyed the second movement with the solo violin playing a romance-like solo almost suggestive of a Baroque violin sonata... that eventually turned into a waltz... but a waltz gone "wrong"... not unlike those of Prokofiev or Ravel's La Valse:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1iJuluJmDY&feature=related

The second ballet, Agon, has been proclaimed by some as Stravinsky's masterpiece. I won't speak to that now, having only first listened to it. I will say I found it to be the strongest of these three works. Agon is constructed of a collection of brief pieces each having a unique orchestration. In one moment the composer has scored for flute and harp, in the next for woodwinds and percussion, and in the next for cabaret-like horns. There are elements of Agon that are as strident as The Rite of Spring... but then he turns around and presents something delicate and almost worthy of Debussy Impressionism... which then melts into something a bit more atonal and suggestive of Takemitsu and something exotic and Eastern. Stravinsky has clearly learned from Schoenberg and the "Second Viennese School" but he rejects the abandonment of tonality... employing rather both dissonance and harmony.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz0mqFnZhLk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiELHgX-AIE&feature=related

Where Apollo presented us with Stravinsky's take on Classicism, and Agon had him playing with Modernism, Orpheus is Stravinsky toying with Romanticism. There are long passages of lush and beautifully sweeping melodies that might lead you to think you were listening to Bax, Vaughan-Williams, or Virgil Thompson... until he begins to play around with a strident passage here and there... with the blurring into something a bit off or a bit dissonant.

Personally I found this disc quite enjoyable and almost immediately accessible... although it is clear that Stravinsky's formalism... his manner of playing with expectations... demand repeat listenings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1ZI4SIAuMA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TCenkFXowc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZWzrNnEOlI&feature=related

I am quite looking forward to exploring the other discs.

Currently I'm listening to this disc of lovely music by Gabriel Faure. It's too bad that his reputation centers for many solely upon his Requiem... marvelous as that is. Faure's songs and his chamber works are absolutely exquisite:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4ZbUbN2OPE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJAwkdPQMmA

Musicology

12-24-2010, 05:44 PM

Giovanni Andre Fioroni (1718-1778)
Andante for Solo Harp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwYqZTpvQx8

Best wishes for this Christmas and in the New Year.

Andreas Romberg
(1767-1821)
Clarinet Quintet in E Flat Major
Op. 57

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mc81b_FhnGA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpKKGD2RqWM&feature=related

laymonite

12-31-2010, 10:51 AM

Just got Goulding's book for Christmas (a belated gift, indeed, but worth waiting for I think), and I plan to delve into a composer a week for 2011! I'll post my thoughts each week here!

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0449910423.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

stlukesguild

12-31-2010, 03:22 PM

For Christmas I used some of the money I earned from a bonus for our students have met their yearly goals to finally purchase Wagner's complete Der Ring des Nibelungen... well actually not one complete Ring cycle but two:

Herbert von Karajan's studio recording from the mid/late-1960s:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5010/5286989525_6ef06ab5b4.jpg

and Clemens Krauss' live Bayreuth recording from the early 1950s:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5250/5287591262_0339ccdf34.jpg

Krauss' recording has arguably the greatest cast of Wagnerian singers at the absolute height of their abilities, while Karajan employs a marvelous collection of newer singers with the focus upon the symphonic brilliance of the work.

I', currently working my way through Karajan's Ring... just now finishing the second opera:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5130/5307771277_f3b0c475f7.jpg

On the first listening I read the synopsis, but then listen through the whole without following the libretto... focusing on the music. After this I'll give a second listen following the libretto closely. Ultimately approaching this work is like first coming upon Dante's Comedia, Milton's Paradise Lost, Joyce's Ulysses, or the Sistine Ceiling. The work is so incredibly epic in scale that I imagine I'll be listening to almost nothing else for quite a while... which is frustrating as I have Turandot (Puccini), Die Frau Ohne Schatten (Richard Strauss), Le Nozze di Figaro, Tamerlano (Handel), Des Gewaltige Hahnrei (Goldschmidt), Carmen (Bizet), and several other operas waiting in the wings.

Emil Miller

01-01-2011, 07:40 PM

Here is the great, and I mean great, Yuja Wang playing Rachmaninoff's Concerto No.2. If I were young enough and rich enough, I would marry her tomorrow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2JyZE-OaXY

LitNetIsGreat

01-01-2011, 08:40 PM

Here is the great, and I mean great, Yuja Wang playing Rachmaninoff's Concerto No.2. If I were young enough and rich enough, I would marry her tomorrow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2JyZE-OaXY

Oh yes, we have noticed you have a crush on Miss Wang don't worry.:blush5: I agree she is a most able player indeed!

laymonite

01-02-2011, 11:09 PM

Any recommendations on a good recording of Bach's Mass in B Minor?

stlukesguild

01-03-2011, 09:45 PM

Almost always at the top of the recommendations for any of Bach's choral works are the recordings of John Eliot Gardiner with the Monteverdi Choit and the English Baroque Soloists. Rather than buying this work alone, however, I would suggest this box set:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5001/5321656001_881cffd06f.jpg

This set currently costs twice what the Mass in B-minor costs alone... but where the Mass in B-minor consists of two CDs this box set contains 22 CDs!! Included are the St. Matthew Passion, the St. John Passion, the Mass in B minor, the Magnificat, and the Christmas Oratorio as well as 10 discs of Bachs finest cantatas. All of these recordings are the same as the Gardiner recordings of these same works that were all rated consistently among the finest available choices. The soloists include some of the finest in the field of Baroque music including Nancy Argenta, Barbara Bonney, Michael Chance, Bernarda Fink, Magdalena Kozená, Anne Sofie von Otter, Mark Padmore, Anthony Rolfe Johnson, Andreas Schmidt and Stephen Varcoe. The only draw back is the absence of any libretto or text to the works, although they offer a link to the same online. This set was one of the greatest purchases I made in music all last year. I still haven't shelved it as I have been playing various works from it in continual rotation.

Other possible choices after Gardiner include:

Philippe Herreweghe is always a top contender for any Baroque-period work. His Mass in B-minor is rated one of the absolute best:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5124/5322304310_dbed176f87.jpg

When it comes to Bach's choral works there are essentially 4 major contenders who have recorded or are in the process of recording everything: Garniner, Ton Koopman (who has yet to record the Mass), Philippe Herreweghe, and Masaaki Suzuki and the Bach Collegium Japan Orchestra:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5247/5321702899_8343107ae3.jpg

I'm personally not a great Suzuki fan. I find his productions too perfect... to the point of being somewhat cold. Perhaps this has something to do with singers who do not relate to the emotional impact of the texts... or perhaps its just me.

After these top 3 choices there are always the "old school" recordings, perhaps the finest of which is Otto Klemperer's with his great collection of singers, but others would include the recording by Karl Richter and that of Herbert von Karajan:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5170/5322304394_7a9604331a.jpg

I seriously wouldn't recommend them as a first choice for the simple reason that they present Bach in the guise of the large Romantic-era orchestra. They are perhaps best to listen to once one is already familiar with more historically informed performances of Bach.

:)

Emil Miller

01-04-2011, 07:08 AM

Here is the final movement of Brahms mighty 1st piano concerto played by Stephen Hough and the Budapest Festival Orchestra under Ivan Fischer.
This is a high point in German romanticism. The ending from 9.39 leads to a spectacular shot of the Albert Hall to coincide with the tremendous blaze of the final notes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pt9KVYzZEbY

laymonite

01-04-2011, 11:35 AM

Thanks, stlukes. I found the first-mentioned box on Amazon.

stlukesguild

01-04-2011, 08:44 PM

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5204/5325568456_a3d8292e34.jpg

I'm still working my way through Wagner's Ring. Currently I'm listening to the third opera of the quartet: Siegfried. The deeper you get into this work the more astonished you are with the absolute audacity and genius of this often quite nasty man that was Richard Wagner. Fans of opera often rate Mozart's Don Giovanni or Le Nozze di Figaro or Verdi's La Traviata or even Wagner's own Tristan und Isolde as the greatest opera ever written... but then acknowledge that the Ring is something beyond this. The scale of this work, the grandeur of the music and the drama, the complexity and grandeur of the narrative... the superhuman mythos that invents an entire world takes opera miles beyond anything that preceded it to such a degree that I cannot help but agree that the only possible comparisons are with such towering artistic epics as Dante's Comedia, Homer's Iliad and Odyssey, Aeschylus Oresteia, the great Gothic cathedrals, Michelangelo's Sistine, the buried army of Qin Shi Huang, etc...

Emil Miller

01-05-2011, 07:39 PM

The Sibelius has long been one of my favourite concertos but this performance by David Oistrakh simply blows all others away. I can't say more because I'm literally speechless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJOCquXwh1A

laymonite

01-10-2011, 11:22 AM

Okay, so, I focused on Bach during Week 1 of the new year. Of the handful of pieces I listened to, his passions really stole my attention: St. Matthew Passion, St. John Passion; and, of course, the famous (and rightfully so) Mass in B Minor. I made a playlist on YouTube of the Mass in B Minor (link below). His Concerto for Two Violins (S. 1043) is nice, as is the familiar Fugue in D Minor--this also really helped me understand what a fugue is! I also feel much more enlightened on the baroque style. Phil Goulding used Peter Rubens's paintings to give a sense of baroque.

Sorry for the terse assessment--Bach is owed a great deal more--but I am still very much a classical music infant, and I suspect I'll have more to say as my knowledge grows this year.

Now onto Mozart for Week 2!

My Playlist of the Mass in B Minor:
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=A03687AC862C3826

stlukesguild

01-10-2011, 06:47 PM

There are those who place Bach's vocal works at the pinnacle of his achievements, while others would place his solo instrumental composition (especially those for keyboard) at the top. Personally, I see no need for an either/or dichotomy. Bach composed some of the greatest music ever composed across a vast array of forms and genre. You are right that he is much "more"... and neither Bach, Mozart, Beethoven... nor any of the towering figures of classical music may be fully digested over a short period of time. Such is the project of a lifetime... but it means there will always be new and brilliant discoveries.

Currently, I am beginning to explore English and American "lieder" or "art song". While I can somewhat fudge my way through the German of Schubert, Schumann, Stauss, and Mahler's lieder, there is something to be said for listening to a body of art song in one's native tongue.

Right now I'm listening to Ivor Gurney:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5003/5343738517_437a1c915f.jpg

Gurney was both a poet and composer of some real merit. As a poet, he is placed among the poets of the First World War. Gurney had a rather sad life, ending up institutionalized after several attempts at suicide as a result of his bipolar disorder, and dying in his 40s as a result of tuberculosis. As a composer, he is known mostly for some 300+ songs. His friend, the composer Gerald Finzi, suggested that there was very little of the whole of Gurney's entire oeuvre that might be called "bad." His songs build upon some elements of Schubert, Schumann, and the rest of the great German lieder composers... but there is far more of English Romantic folk music at play. This particular disc is limited to the song settings of texts by other poets, including Shakespeare, Yeats, Masefield, Edward Thomas, Thomas Nashe, and Edward de la Mare. I will certainly looking into the Hyperion disc of Gurney's settings of his own poems as well.

One of Gurney's finest songs sung by the great Anthony Rolfe Johnson:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbweovGlJeY

Here is one of Gurney's strongest poems:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW5hoNqRH-4

Mutatis-Mutandis

01-10-2011, 07:11 PM

I'm a huge metal head, and as funny as this sounds, I find a lot of similarities between metal and classical (not all, of course, but some), especially when it comes to progressive metal. Usually I hear it when the classical music is dark, or fast. The tone and intricacy just seem similar.

This being said, does anyone have an recommendations as to some darker-toned classical music?

stlukesguild

01-10-2011, 09:35 PM

Darker-toned classical music:

Holst- The Planets, Mars, The Bringer of War:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0bcRCCg01I

Carl Orff- Carmina Burana:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjvqY-U9gV0

Richard Wagner- Götterdämmerung - Siegfried's Funeral March

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a53s4jyCqqU

Mussorgsky- Night on Bald Mountain:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCEDfZgDPS8&feature=related

Richard Strauss- Also sprach Zarathustra:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIPD1WoLheY&feature=fvst

Frédéric Chopin - Marche Funèbre:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgw_RD_1_5I

J.S. Bach- "Erbarme dich mein Gott" from the St. Matthew Passion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYz9EiXBZM4

J.S. Bach- Toccata and Fugue in D-minor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVJD3dL4diY

J.S. Bach- Passacaglia and Fugue in C minor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STij8KmsgcI

Now if you really want DARK, you need to move into the 20th century where things really start to get ugly:

Ligeti- Lux Aeterna:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnuAaKiX1sg

Giacinto Scelsi- Elohim:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tScH89jmcVM&feature=related

Krzysztof Penderecki - Threnody for the Victims of Hiroshima:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfBVYhyXU8o

George Crumb- Black Angels:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV6BeeoX474

Compared to Krzysztof Penderecki and George Crumb, metal is music for wusses.:D

Gilliatt Gurgle

01-10-2011, 10:06 PM

Thanks for posting, looking forward to making my way through your selections.

I just finished Holst which brought images of "War of the Worlds" to mind.

.

Mutatis-Mutandis

01-10-2011, 10:13 PM

Compared to Krzysztof Penderecki and George Crumb, metal is music for wusses.:D

LOL, we'll see about that, :).

Also, the Hoist, awesome stuff. Has it been used in a movie, or a score similar to it? It seems familiar, especially 1:20-1:50.

Edit 1: I GOT IT! It sounds like the Bowzer levels in the original Mario Brothers game.

Edit 2: No, that isn't it. It has a similar sound, but there's still something else that I'm thinking of....

Edit 3: Nope, it's the Mussorgsky that Mario Brother's sounds more similar to. Still can't put my finger one where I've heard the Holt.

So, after listening to all those, I really enjoyed them. Of the first group (pre-20th century), I've heard almost all of the selections--I wouldn't have been able to name them, though, except for Also Sprach Zarathustra. The problem, for me, with a lot of these is that I have heard them, and they have become so corrupted by their use in popular culture, it's hard to get the images out of my head, especially with Orff's (it's been used in so many damn commercials).

I couldn't get into the last four. Extremely dark, yes. And, if I continue the heavy metal analogy, it is darker than most metal, but has none of the brutality. You can't have metal without brutality. The last four were very good, and conveyed that feeling of doom quite perfectly, but to draggy for my tastes (and, it felt like I was listening to a horror movie, haha).

I guess a better characterization of what I like about metal is the power and energy. The darkness comes secondary. I LOVE Holt's Mars, The Bringer of War; I've listened to it several times--you can literally headbang to it. I actually bought the whole Planets album on iTunes (fully realizing not every song will be like Mars) and really like it.

Another of my favorite classical pieces (still realizing I don't know many) is Stravinsky's Firebird. Yes's endorsement doesn't hurt, either.

I'm curious, StLukes, do you like any metal? I have probably mischaracterized myself in this thread, as it isn't like I only listen to metal; I like rock, classic rock, reggae, jazz, prog-rock (really love prog-rock), fusion, and now I'm trying to get more into classical. Metal will always be my favorite, though :cornut:.

stlukesguild

01-12-2011, 09:09 PM

Another of my favorite classical pieces (still realizing I don't know many) is Stravinsky's Firebird. Yes's endorsement doesn't hurt, either.

The obvious next step is Starvinsky's Rite of Spring which stands as the iconic work of Modernist music... rather like The Wasteland and Ulysses are in literature or Picasso's Les Demoiselles d'Avignon is for painting.

I'm curious, StLukes, do you like any metal? I have probably mischaracterized myself in this thread, as it isn't like I only listen to metal; I like rock, classic rock, reggae, jazz, prog-rock (really love prog-rock), fusion, and now I'm trying to get more into classical. Metal will always be my favorite, though .

I largely stopped listening to head-banger music toward the end of high-school as I began to explore all the other musical possibilities in far greater depth. I may pop on Led Zeppelin once in a blue moon... but even they largely seem to pale in comparison to the raw honesty of the blues of Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker, Howlin' Wolf, Elmore James, etc... from which they sprang. My own listening now is about 80% classical (which can range from Byzantine chant c. 1000 AD to Osvaldo Golijov's heady stylistic mixes composed just last week) with the remaining 20% spent listening to jazz, blues, rock, bluegrass, folk, and some non-western music... with jazz making up the largest part of this.

Mutatis-Mutandis

01-12-2011, 11:36 PM

I'm sure I don't have to tell you Led Zepplin isn't metal, haha.

I know I continuously extol the virtues of metal, but there is a lot out there with amazing writing and musicianship, with lots of jazz and progressive elements. There's a band called Aryeon (music written by one man) that is pretty much a metal-opera. Dream Theater, Dimmu Borgir, Opeth, Between the Buried and Me, Symphony X, Pain of Salvation--all extremely artistic. It's just a matter of getting pas the harsh vocals.

I'll definitely check out Rite of Spring next. Still digesting Holst's Planets.

Who're some of your favorite jazz musicians?

stlukesguild

01-14-2011, 05:52 PM

Who're some of your favorite jazz musicians?

My favorites would be Duke Ellington and Miles Davis followed by Thelonius Monk, Dizzie Gillespie, Charlie Parker, Lee Konitz, Lennie Tristano, Louis Armstrong, John Coletrane, Dave Brubeck, Sonny Rollins, Count Basie, Bill Evans, Gil Evans, Modern Jazz Quartet, Art Blakey, Horace Silver, Bennie Goodman, Charlie Mingus, Eric Dolphy, as well as jazz blues vocalists such as Billie Holliday, Ella Fitzgerald, Frank Sinatra, Sarah Vaughan, Little Jimmy Smith, Joe Williams, etc...

Mutatis-Mutandis

01-14-2011, 06:04 PM

Good stuff. I really like Miles Davis and Thelonius Monk, also. I am definitely not as well versed as you, though. Some of my favorites are (some of these are more contemporary and cross over into the fusion genre) Pat Methany, Al Di Miola, Bela Fleck, and John McLaughlin.

Taliesin

01-15-2011, 10:56 AM

Darker-toned classical music...

You know, if one were to ask me for darker-toned classical, the second piece that comes to mind (after the obvious "O Fortuna") comes from a bloody ballet.

Dance of The Knights (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB3sd2BAxys) from Prokofjev's ballet "Romeo and Juliet"

I think Prokofiev generally tends to be rather dark - at least those works that I have heard.

And I have the feeling that I should start to listen to classical in a more orderly manner - finding out what the important pieces of some important composers are and trying to understand the differences between the styles instead of randomly listening to pieces from my small collection and browsing around YouTube in a haphazard manner.

stlukesguild

01-15-2011, 01:49 PM

Yes... you almost sense the tension between the house of Montague and the house of Capulet. Prokofiev is marvelous at taking forms that are traditionally "beautiful" and twisting them in a certain manner so that they take on a skewed or dark hue.

One of my favorite such compositions by another composer is Ravel's La Valse... in which I can almost sense the collapse of old Vienna in the form of a Waltz that is falling in on itself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRmavWyVLWw&feature=fvsr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5009/5379182871_3f191b01a1.jpg

I'm still delving deeper into the Baroque... with a focus upon the German, French, and Italian composers beyond Bach, Handel, and Vivaldi. Today I've been giving a first listen to Johann Hermann Schein, who was J.S. Bach's predecessor (by some 90 years- 1617-1630) as Cantor of St. Thomas' Cathedral, Leipzig. Like Bach after him, Schein was well aware of and influenced by the musical innovations coming out of Italy. Schien composed for both secular and liturgical purposes. Believing that the spiritual meaning of his liturgical music should be conveyed with the greatest conviction he was not hesitant to employ the latest inventions of secular music. In the case of Schein's Israelis Brünnlein it was the Italian madrigal that Schein drew upon. Israelis Brünnlein stands as an oratorio composed of twenty-six madrigals set to German religious texts drawn from the Old Testament:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC-KKDNU4H4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZymbBC-yHTU

oshima

01-23-2011, 01:15 AM

Great Chopin performances and decent sound quality for youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MzrAGZHDvo&feature=related Also found this great track by Handsome boy modeling school that uses a Brandenburg Concerto sample. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTRcskwiRRA

Emil Miller

01-23-2011, 10:04 AM

Thanks for posting the Chopin by Valentina Igoshina great playing by a truly sensitive interpreter. Here's 'Tristesse' in an equally touching performance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrD1ZaNwdsU

Mutatis-Mutandis

01-23-2011, 04:18 PM

Hey, Stlukes, I played Holt's Planets for my dad (huge prog-rock fan; favorite band is Yes) and he LOVED it.

Emil Miller

01-27-2011, 11:48 AM

Here is the part of the Alpine Symphony when the climber reaches the summit. This music is so great that it equals the mountain scenery it describes in this overwhelming live performance given in Berlin in 2008.
Years ago I stood on a mountain top above the clouds and saw a vast range of peaks stretching into the distance as far as I could see. This music produces the same emotion that I had then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK7z2NhUrsQ

laymonite

01-28-2011, 01:00 PM

OK. So, I disappeared from the forum for a few weeks because Infinite Jest seized all of my time!

I'm still following along with Phil Goulding's book and following a composer per week. The top 3, the immortals, Bach, Mozart, Beethoven have been phenomenal. I've been listening to Beethoven's 9th "rule-breaking" symphony at work a lot. This week I've focused on "that vile human being" Richard Wagner.

The "Siegfried Idyll" is am amazing piece. When I listen to it i can't help but feel elevated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40JL1IC18Xc

I've also been listening to his operas, including the "ring cycle" and "The Flying Dutchman." I'm going to try to listen to "Tristan and Isolde" over the weekend, before moving on to Haydn.

stlukesguild

02-06-2011, 12:33 AM

I've been listening to a great deal of Wagner lately... as the result of having purchased two complete Ring cycles over the Christmas holiday. Perhaps by way of a tonic to Wagner I've been recently re-exploring the music of his arch-rival, Johannes Brahms. Brahms symphonies can sometimes strike me as too dense... leaden even... that is why the recent recordings of these works by John Eliot Gardiner are so thrilling. They offer a Brahms that is muscular, dynamic, and transparent.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5299/5420601456_402b1cfc12.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5097/5419995079_19e63622c1.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5260/5420601574_0bda4cb565.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5099/5409372934_62958640ca.jpg

The packaging of each of these recordings, is quite of the standard that I have grown used to from recent Gardiner releases... including his Bach cantata cycle. The cover art on each disc is a detail from a painting by the contemporary British abstract artist, Howard Hodgkin with the full painting reproduced inside. The imagery, no doubt, stresses the modernity and energy of these recordings. Each book comes with a text by the conductor discussing the particular works by Brahms. As none of Brahms' symphonies is particularly long, Gardiner packages each of these symphonies by placing them in contrast to choral works by Brahms... or others admired by the composer... thus stressing the song-like manner and structure of his symphonic work. The song... in the form of lieder, choral songs, larger choral compositions, motets, etc... was central to Brahms work... in spite of the fact that he avoided ever composing an opera (perhaps in avoidance of a direct competition and comparison with Wagner?)

Along with these, I have been listening to the classic George Szell/Leon Fleisher recordings of Brahms' piano concertos. While these are surely "old school" as opposed to modern Historically Informed Performances... they are nevertheless, unsurpassed. Only the equally "old school" recording by Gilels and Jochum may rival this.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5260/5414971766_1fa449ab87.jpg

Perhaps the greatest pleasure afforded by my recent foray into Brahms has been the result of a new purchase of Brahms' Clarinet Sonatas (1&2) and the marvelous Fantasiestücke of Robert Schumann. These works alone make clear the brilliance of Brahms... which in many ways is more often found in his chamber works than in his larger symphonic efforts. Like Mozart and many others after him, the rich, sensual sound of the clarinet seems to have inspired Brahms to write at a level of genius rarely rivaled.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5136/5419921335_1bfdee1050.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC6VAIjXY74

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AsiDn9GGe0&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlY4dFToaIk&feature=channel

Lokasenna

02-06-2011, 06:46 AM

Oh boy, have I found an obscure little gem!

Mieczyslaw Karlowicz, Violin Concerto in A Major:

Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1514fo-ogg)
Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fc5GhEGRjsM&feature=related)
Part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gAPk5t3lnE&feature=related)

Why this fantastic concerto isn't in the standard repertoire, I've no idea. Probably because this is only one of two pieces that represent Karlowicz coming into his full musical powers before his untimely death. There are some excellent tunes in there, and great virtuosity in the use of the violin. I can clearly hear shades of Wagner and Tchaikovsky in there, and perhaps a touch of Brahms, but it is by no means derivative.

stlukesguild

02-06-2011, 12:17 PM

Lokasenna

02-06-2011, 03:21 PM

Yes, Mieczyslaw Karlowicz is a minor master. I have yet to pick up his violin concert (although it is on my Amazon Wish List) but I do have a majority of his tone poems. These shouldn't be passed up... especially considering that the best recordings of these are on budget-label Naxos with Antoni Wit and the Warsaw Philharmonic and the New Zealand Symphony. Discovering those "unknown" masters who we have never heard before is ever a thrill.. and in the realm of classical music there are more than you can begin to imagine.

The recording of it that I've managed to get my hands on (and is a better performance than the one on Youtube) is Tamsin Little and the BBC Scottish Symphony Orchestra, published by hyperion. It's also bundled in with a few less interesting pieces by Moszkowski, but it is a good CD.

As for the concerto, I'd be very interested to hear your verdict on it when you get round to obtaining it!

stlukesguild

02-06-2011, 10:29 PM

I've had that very disc on my wish list for some time now... at least a couple of years ago when I was delving deep into the less-well-known composers of the Romantic and Post-Romantic repertoire. I see that now that Naxos has the work available performed by Antoni Wit and for the price it can't be beat. I don't doubt, however, that the Hyperion disc is also very good. They have some of the highest standards among classical labels. I'm going with Wit, however, not only for the price, but also because he has never failed to deliver on the Polish repertoire... and I also have a Polish acquaintance and classical music buff who swears that Wit's Karlowicz in the "must have".

Right now, however, I'm mostly focused on fleshing out my collection of baroque music... discovering some great composers and music beyond Bach, Handel, Vivaldi, and Domenico Scarlatti. Indeed, Handel has greatly grown in my esteem as I have discovered his wealth of vocal music: some 40+ operas, nearly 30 oratorios, as well as 100+ cantatas. I just finished listening to this absolutely stunning recording of Handel arias by Bejun Mehta and Rene Jacobs:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5203/5382252065_fbfd324df9.jpg

The recording has received glowing reviews in all the classical press... and deservedly so. It is an absolutely thrilling performance... virtuoso and muscular. I cannot recommend it highly enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyCdCyIetB4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLAs9PFEWzw

Right now I'm listening to Sanctus Petrus et Sancta Maria Magdalena by Johann Adolf Hasse. Hasse was one of the towering stars of the Baroque period... immensely popular. He was known especially for his operas... but also his sacred music. He was married to Faustina Bordoni, one of the leading divas of her day, a star on the stages in Italy, Germany, and England, she was part of a notorious rivalry which created a great scandal while perfoming for Handel, Hasse was also a close friend with Metastasio, the librettist who literally dominated the opera world of the day. Hasse traveled perfoming between courts, especially those in Venice and Dresden, where J.S. Bach worked in his shadows as a lowly Cantor in the smaller university town of Leipzig.

One may get an idea of the cultural gap between the world in which Hasse was employed and that of J.S. Bach by looking at the churches and cathedrals of Dresden:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5053/5423834828_7ab59095da.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5256/5423225915_a1f33327d4_z.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5179/5423830112_3cea2c01a5_z.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5138/5423832070_3f783b49f3_z.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5293/5423229035_940b2d6f67_z.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5298/5423228065_8e7275a4c8_z.jpg

This in comparison to the comparative humble circumstances of Thomaskirche in Leipzig:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5140/5423229137_74df5a28ec_z.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5300/5423229421_716d69fe8a_z.jpg

Like Handel, Hasse's work employs the energy and drama drawn from Italian music. Where Bach's sacred music is passionately heartfelt... Hasse's is the grandest of theater and entertainment. Hasse had the advantage of access to the finest virtuoso musicians and vocalists... including female sopranos, which J.S. Bach quite envied.

While there are no recordings on YouTube of the current disc I am listening to, there are any number of videos that give good notion of the quality of Hasse as a composer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc_WtkjCSyA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNByuOT-rd4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJUU4c7JuP0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSwzFAc3ol0

laymonite

02-09-2011, 02:07 PM

I've been listening to Debussy's "Syrinx," which is based on the myth of Pan and Syrinx. Basically, Pan, a sexually virile god, attempted to seduce the lovely nymph, Syrinx, but she fled to the water and was turned into a hollow reed. Pan, not knowing which reed was Syrinx, plucked 7 of the reeds, cut them, and constructed a flute. hence Pan's pan-flute. He played this melancholy instrument in remembrance of her. In Debussy's music, one can truly hear the sense of loss and heartache. The song is haunting and pensive. Here is James Galway:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_ZSSkMzS5E

Wilde woman

02-09-2011, 07:21 PM

I'm enjoying Tchaikovsky's Marche Slaive as I do my reading tonight.

Pyras

02-10-2011, 12:45 PM

Emil Miller

02-10-2011, 01:25 PM

Here's the superb Sarah Chang with Zigeunerweisen. I heard Fritz Kreisler's famous recording on the radio this morning but this is stunning playing too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W_H2BEJbt0

TacoButt

02-10-2011, 02:01 PM

I really like Johann Sebastian Bach, especially the overtures. I'm listening to Bach music just now. In Bach's music it seems to me that everything is organized very well. There is a ordered music that calms me, soothes me. I let myself be captured by mathematics that is within all those sounds.
I like generally everything composed by Bach.

I have heard this association of mathematics, orderliness and Bach many times. What I hear is very fluid and streaming, like a continuous course of water over various landscapes - free and unencumbered.

Bach's music must have the properties of an aural Rorschach test...everyone hears different things.

I remember reading Godel, Escher Bach and thinking....this guy doesn't understand Bach very well. :)

LitNetIsGreat

02-13-2011, 10:32 AM

Currently listening to Schumann's scenes from Faust on Naxos as I try to read Hobbes?

http://www.naxosdirect.com/templates/shared/images/titles/larger/747313243075__lang-en-uk.jpg

Overture:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_zVtK-ssjo

Lokasenna

02-13-2011, 10:48 AM

I'm currently going on a bit of a Sibelius binge. His music has such a wonderfully dark and evocative power - he's very much a product of the wild Finnish landscape.

Like Beethoven, Sibelius's symphonies form the core of his work. I'm rather odd, insofar as my favourite is his 4th symphony, a piece that has divided critics since it was composed. But, for your (hopeful) pleasure, here it is:

Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60PGX0RzUvU)

Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USeUdeBb704)

Part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsBw0JnQL0g)

Part 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t49T0ETYRAM)

stlukesguild

02-13-2011, 01:13 PM

I was wondering if you could direct me to those French operas you were listening to sometime last year? I've a fancy to go over them, getting the opera itch, but can't seem to find the right page on the classical listening - it is a long thread.

If you have a name or link I'd appreciate it.

Thanks, Neely.

Neely, I moved this the the classical music discussion in order to allow for a longer response... and to allow any others who might be interested in on the dialog.

You are right... this thread has grown quite large. I browsed through a good portion of the thread in search of the French operas to which you refer. I remember that a bit over a year ago I was indeed making a concerted effort to broaden my collection of French music in general. First among these efforts was a greater collection of French Mélodies or French "art songs". I posted a three-part thread on this which I have re-posted (with a few editorial changes) to by blog:

http://heironymus62.tumblr.com/

I suspect, however, that the operas you refer to include, especially, the Baroque composers that I have been so deeply exploring over the past year and a half. Among these, the most important is Jean-Philippe Rameau. Rameau was afforded a marvelous concert of highlights performed by Mark Minkowski and les Musiciens du Louvres:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKvd4tMkFHc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNlvJRvjW7s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFeaXqWmNOQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkWzhIHEVsE&feature=related

I have downloaded all I could find of this concert to my computer because I cannot find this concert for sale anywhere.

Rameau's masterpiece is quite possibly the opera, Les indes galantes
from which the opening selection above is taken. The performance of this opera by William Christie is certainly one of the greatest opera performances I have ever witnessed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zegtH-acXE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVrTHyV_Cbs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNvznOGP8eM&feature=related

The visuals... including the marvelously exotic Daniele de Niese... are stunning. The dance sequences are beautiful. There is a perfect ballance of seriousness and campiness (how can you not love the god of war that looks like the lead singer from Twisted Sister???!:thumbsup: I ran out and immediately bought this disc after seeing just a few highlights, and I was more than thrilled with the purchase:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5131/5442210702_beaa849afd.jpg

Among the other great French baroque composers I have explored over the last year are:

Jean-Baptiste de Lully:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL6EtdH3bho

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsggm5boWaE&feature=related

Of course Lully, like Rameau, and nearly any of the baroque French composers were masters of sacred choral music as well as opera:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMJwQeEXSVI&feature=related

Lully has also been afforded one of the finest operatic productions available in recent years. His Cadmus et Hermoine was staged using costumes, lighting, special effects to mirror what was available during Lully's lifetime. The resulting work is quite magical:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqJZPzi_Odw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU6RVt841vo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWS0Lmc9AKY&feature=related

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5254/5441673273_348030e022.jpg

More to follow.....

LitNetIsGreat

02-13-2011, 01:28 PM

Wow, thanks a lot, much appreciated.

Edit: oh boy, currently swept away with this stuff...

I have ordered the Philippe Jaroussky CD and Rameau’s opera Les indes galantes on DVD (which yes I had in mind).

Marvellous stuff, thanks.

stlukesguild

02-13-2011, 03:05 PM

Beyond Lully and Rameau there were also

Marc-Antoine Charpentier

Michel Richard Delalande

and Jean-Joseph de Mondonville

All three are equally masterful... if not even better... as composers of sacred choral music.

Breaking away from the baroque I am less than overly experienced in French opera. Of course we have Berlioz' Les Troyens, and Bizet's Carmen... as well as his recently rehabilitated Pearldivers. From what I have read, the French opera really comes into its own... after a lull following the baroque... with the Romantic period... although the great German composer Gluck wrote many of his operas for the French audience... and Rosssini's last, William Tell. Massenet seems to have been the real central figure. Like Puccini he was a master melodist. Like Rameau he made the French language perfectly fitted for opera. For some time critical opinions were against him... not unlike those who have rejected Puccini, Rachmaninoff, and even Bizet as lacking "rigor". An absolute magnificent introduction to Massenet is this disc:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5140/5442489034_48c88279d9.jpg

This exquisitely packaged CD perfromed by Richard Bonynge and the Australian Opera and ballet (and soloists) is a delicious introduction to Massenet. Massenet produced more operas of real merit than all but a few composers, including: Thais, Don Quichotte, Manon, Le Cid, Cendrillon, Herodiade, Esclarmonde, Werther, Sappho, etc... Thais, Manon, and Werther seem to be the most admired.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLOjFkKv_LI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLKEdmVu3FY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNX-W4OeYrM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPZlbhXPdVU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKNszk_9zrg&feature=related

After Massenet you have Charles Gounod...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eIk5DWUx_E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fO78AqC1IE4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKRITskQsLU

Jacques Offenbach...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4hs7vW8SV0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u0M4CMq7uI

Leo Delibes Lakme...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qx2lMaMsl8

and Claude Debussy's Pelléas et Mélisande, deeply rooted in the operatic innovations of Richard Wagner:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuCmvQJamqQ

LitNetIsGreat

02-17-2011, 04:24 PM

The Philippe Jaroussky CD has just arrived today so I will be listening to that later - it's just what I need after a hectic sort of week. I'm also looking forward to a concert next week featuring Mozart's Requiem as well as a little Vivaldi for starters.

Gladys

02-18-2011, 06:34 AM

Jacques Offenbach...

After the fabulous Rameau, French composers have not been to my conservative taste, with the curious exception of Jacques Offenbach. How and why is he different? Is he simply earlier than the others?

J.Offenbach Cello Quartet (I): Adagio (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA8OKXZjjD4)

J.Offenbach Cello Quartet (II): Scherzo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_Uel_l7kfo&feature=related)

Musicology

02-18-2011, 12:15 PM

As more music is recorded of little known Dresden Kapellmeister Jan Dimas Zelenka (1679-1745) it becomes clear this Bohemian was one of the major composers of western musical history. (Admired by Bach and many of his own musical contemporaries). Much of his music was lost during WW2 bombing of Dresden.

Missa Votiva
Credo
ZWV 18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAhASZ9jjLI&feature=related

2/4

Miserere
ZWV 57/1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG_nLmo6bwQ&feature=related

3/4

Sanctus
Missa dei Patris -
Sanctus (7/8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nFPsFwFKcU&feature=related

4/4

Aria from Serenata
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RixQFqUvA5A

Mutatis-Mutandis

02-21-2011, 08:02 PM

Hey, StLukes, I just want to say thanks again for linking the Gustav Holst piece. I bought the planets suite and have probably listened to it a dozen times by now. Just amazing.

What do you think of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0k6KDXQo2k), StLukes (and anyone else)? I first came upon it due to the Emerson, Lake, and Palmer cover (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P1RE5v_8FU) and love both versions (though, still have a soft spot for the ELP version, since it was the first I heard). Ginastera reportedly cried when he heard he liked it so much. I have his first two piano concertos ordered.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to some names I can put into Pandora to here some contemporary classical music? Aside from Philip Glass, that is, who I find kind of boring.

Lokasenna

02-27-2011, 05:21 PM

Does anyone have any suggestions as to some names I can put into Pandora to here some contemporary classical music? Aside from Philip Glass, that is, who I find kind of boring.

Well, I agree about Philip Glass.

I'm not mad about any contemporary figures, but I've listened to a spot of Max Richter and Krzysztof Penderecki recently - they're pretty good.

TacoButt

02-28-2011, 12:07 AM

Does anyone have any suggestions as to some names I can put into Pandora to here some contemporary classical music? Aside from Philip Glass, that is, who I find kind of boring.

If you are in an adventurist mood, look up my new favorite contemporary composers Giacinto Scelsi. Scelsi died in 1988 and doesn't have the prominent name that other composers have, but I find his music very intriguing.

Scelsi actually studied 12 tone music and wrote initially in that style (like Arvo Part). After a mental crisis, he left on a spiritual journey which took him to northern India where he began writing from a very Buddhist perspective.

The story of music in the 20th century seemed to have been a series of answers to the question of increasing Wagnerian chromaticism. Early, the 12 tone composers such as Webern and Schoenberg embraced more of a total democracy of the 12 pitches rather than emphasize tonal centers.

Their followers, such as Elliot Carter, Karlheinz Stockhausen, and Iannis Xenakis, et. al., began to highly organize ALL facets of music, including pitches.

Others later picked up on eastern philosophies and musical styles (such as Philip Glass) and created tonal and cellular music very opposed to this total organization. Cage embraced aspects of Zen and the iChing after his bout of 12 tone composing.

But Scelsi is like an island unto himself. HIS answer to the question of tonal exploration was to simplify and distill things down even much further than the minimalists. His pieces often tell musical stories from a single note! He wrings more "juice" out of one note than many composers do with all 12!

But far from boring or tedious, Scelsi's compositions employ melodies of tonal COLOR and shading and microtonal variation. Microtones are the use of divisons of the octave greater than 12. But the way Scelsi uses microtones is very specific. He almost always uses them as tonal or color fluctuations of a central pitch.

The effect, at least to me, is reminiscent of the low fluctuating trumpet tones and explosive percussion of Buddhist ceremonies. His music is like a very deep meditation on a single sound. The sound is painted very musically and expands the meaning of "melody."

Where Beethoven created entire stories of a three-note motive in a movement, Scelsi does the same, but on a different dimension. I remember learning a German term which Schoenberg himself, I think, called "Klangfarbenmelodie." It means something like the creation of melody from color or shading. Whereas other composers use color increasingly as an ELEMENT of melody, Scelsi focusses DEEPLY on timbral melody to the frequent exclusion of pitch melody.

(Have you ever contemplated that melodic organization can be independent of pitch? Yes, it can!)

I would suggest trying a variety of pieces for different instruments. The compositions for string ensembles will make my shaky explanations much clearer.

LitNetIsGreat

02-28-2011, 04:57 PM

Currently listening to various genuine Mozart pieces (adding a little sanity to the music forum). Also in the middle of the Rameau opera and have been playing Jaroussky a lot over the last few weeks.

Mozart's Violin Concerto 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGgrv3jezfY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QlyMNMLlfI&NR=1&feature=fvwp

Disappointed in that I was supposed to be going to a Vivaldi and Mozart thing at the City Hall but when I got there for on-the-day tickets ("they never ever sell out of standby tickets so I would get them on the day") they had sold out - so we had a few drinks and played the quiz machines all night??. Still, I've got a Mozart opera in April to look forward to, La Clemenza di Tito, and loads of music in the round stuff, so no real worries - I'm a busy boy though at the moment, it's rubbish, bring on April and May!

stlukesguild

02-28-2011, 08:16 PM

Does anyone have any suggestions as to some names I can put into Pandora to here some contemporary classical music? Aside from Philip Glass, that is, who I find kind of boring.

Steve Reich
John Adams
Osvaldo Golijov
Henryck Gorecki
Veljo Tormis
Tristan Murail
Daniel Catan
Einojuhani Rautavaara
Hans Werner Henze
György Ligeti
Thomas Adès
Valentin Silvestrov.
Terry Riley
Wolfgang Rihm
Tan Dun
Erkki-Sven Tüür
David Lang
John Corigliano
Gian Carlo Menotti
Sofia Gubaidulina
John Zorn
Gérard Grisey
Julian Anderson
Elliott Carter
Milton Babbitt
George Crumb
Alfred Schnittke
Lorenzo Palomo
Frank Martin
Yannis Markopoulos
Vladimir Godar
Peteris Vasks
Joseph Schwantner
William Bolcolm
James Macmillan
Julian Wachner
John Harbison
Jake Heggie
Tarik O'Regan
John Rutter
John Tavener
Alan Hovhaness
Ned Rorem
David Diamond
George Rochberg
Lee Hoiby
Toru Takemitsu
Paul Moravec
Kenneth Fuchs
Eric Whitacre
Nikolai Kapustin
Roberto Gerhard
Mario Castelnuovo-Tedesco
Giacinto Scelsi
Alfredo Casella
Boris Tchaikovsky
Gian Carlo Menotti
Leonard Bernstein
Arvo Part
Morton Feldman
Iannis Xenakis
Alberto Ginastera
Silvestre Revueltas
Bohuslav Martinu
Pascal Dusapin
Kaija Saariaho
Peter Lieberson

This should get Pandora rolling with a selection of contemporary and near contemporary composers from around the globe.

Mutatis-Mutandis

02-28-2011, 08:23 PM

Lol, thanks, StLukes. Any particulars from that list you especially like?

stlukesguild

02-28-2011, 08:29 PM

If you are in an adventurist mood, look up my new favorite contemporary composers Giacinto Scelsi. Scelsi died in 1988 and doesn't have the prominent name that other composers have, but I find his music very intriguing.

Yes... I love Scelsi's work. As you note his music breaks away from the stranglehold of atonalism and returns to a a tonalism that in many ways echoes some of the experimentation of the Minimalists with Eastern music and microtones... but taken, as you note, to an absolute extreme. The music seems to share elements with Minimalism... as well as with the Spectralism of Grisey, Tristan Murail, Kaija Saariaho, and Julian Anderson... and yet stands completely on its own. Personally, I find the music quite hypnotic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tScH89jmcVM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnacs3kPg-I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLi3xxxjHDc&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWeqZ5OW7Qo&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv21uaVx0oA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEQ8QhEDSH0&feature=related

Lol, thanks, StLukes. Any particulars from that list you especially like?

I highlighted my personal favorites... but these are in no way intended as a suggestion of "better" or "worse". My own tastes lean toward vocal music... especially choral... and away from atonal music. The highlighted composers are simply those who have really engaged me. In most instances I have several discs by each of them. But exploring contemporary music is different from exploring the older "classics" in that with the older music, the hard work of discerning "better" and "best" has been done for us by time. We're also confronting artists who are working in a language which in many cases has not been absorbed by the culture and so it can be quite challenging at times..

TacoButt

02-28-2011, 09:31 PM

to St. Luke's...my god, you're like a veritable walking encyclopedia! :eek:

Mutatis-Mutandis

02-28-2011, 11:10 PM

I highlighted my personal favorites... but these are in no way intended as a suggestion of "better" or "worse". My own tastes lean toward vocal music... especially choral... and away from atonal music. The highlighted composers are simply those who have really engaged me. In most instances I have several discs by each of them. But exploring contemporary music is different from exploring the older "classics" in that with the older music, the hard work of discerning "better" and "best" has been done for us by time. We're also confronting artists who are working in a language which in many cases has not been absorbed by the culture and so it can be quite challenging at times.

Cool. I haven't actually gotten into any choral music, but I'll check it out.

to St. Luke's...my god, you're like a veritable walking encyclopedia! :eek:

Not to mention art and authors, :lol:.

What do you all think of Jay Greenberg. One of his songs started on Pandora, and since I liked it I clicked his name and was surprised to see he was born in 1991. I found this video (http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=2209108n) about him. Quite fascinating.

Emil Miller

03-10-2011, 08:35 AM

One of my favourite pieces by Sibelius the master of atmospheric music. The ending, as with so much of Sibelius, is magical.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lt4z2ntBVg&tracker=False

LitNetIsGreat

03-10-2011, 05:03 PM

Philippe Jaroussky, Stabat Mater - enjoy!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFuEQEs6A24&feature=channel_video_title

stlukesguild

03-10-2011, 09:00 PM

While I vastly prefer the female soprano or mezzo to the use of the male choirboy or countertenor in roles written initially for the castrato, Philippe Jaroussky is rapidly becoming one of my absolute favorite singers.

I've been listening to a good deal of Vivaldi lately as an argument erupted over at the classical music site that I frequent as to how good Vivaldi really is. A great many... even among the seasoned classical music audience... seemingly know Vivaldi only for his concerti grossi... especially the Four Seasons. While there are some lovely works among these, listening to a few too many back to back can lead one to agree with Stravinsky who suggested that Vivaldi only wrote one concerto... but he wrote it 400 times.:p

In many ways I think that Vivaldi's reputation is not unlike that of Handel's some 20+ years ago. At that time, Handel was acknowledged as one of the great Baroque composers (although few beyond Bach, Vivaldi, and Handel were even known), but his reputation rested almost exclusively upon the Royal Fireworks Music, the Water Music, the Concerti Grossi op. 3 & 6, and the Messiah. This would be like reducing Bach to the Brandenburg Concertos, the Violin Concertos, the Goldberg Variations, and the Mass in B-minor.

Since that time Handel's 100+ cantatas, 40+ operas, 29 oratorios, and other vocal/choral works have been uncovered and recorded. As a result it has become clear that Handel was indeed one of the greatest composers of the Baroque... perhaps second only to J.S. Bach... and not so far behind him as once believed. But Vivaldi? Among the Baroque aficionados there are those who will sing the praises of Zelenka, Biber, Rameau, Domenico, and Alessandro Scarlatti. Based upon the Vespers, a couple extant operas, and the madrigals many are ready to proclaim Monteverdi as the greatest composer of the Early Baroque. But Vivaldi? Vivaldi only codified the solo concerto: the concerto for mandolin... for oboe... for violin, etc... He wrote a vast array of Concerti Grossi including the Le Quattro Stagioni (The Four Seasons), L'estro Armonico, La Cetra. But his vocal music has for long been almost forgotten... and I might suggest that any view of Vivaldi without his vocal music is just as skewed as a view of Bach or Handel without their vocal music.

Vivaldi claims to have written some 94 operas! Around 50 of these titles have been identified with the scores surviving in whole or part of nearly 30. Vivaldi composed an equally large body of sacred choral and vocal works. The mezzo, Magdalena Kozena admits to having been uninterested when first approached with the prospect of doing a Vivaldi recording. Kozena... and other leading singers as talented as Sandrine Piau, Vivica Genaux, Simone Kermes, Topi Lehtipuu, Diana Damrau, Joyce DiDonato, Philippe Jaroussky, Sondra Radvanovsky, Andreas Scholl, and Jakub Burzynski have all recently discovered the wealth of Vivaldi's vocal works and in the process, provided us with any number of magnificent recordings:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVgItFV0kBY&feature=player_embedded

While I love Jaroussky's uneathly voice, I find Burzynski's driving version of the same work to be equally thrilling:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceazCccMvzI&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFweNPq_czk&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpVNMAi0p1w&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFM9WYz6J2s&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX83BSR0mug

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJoalfIaOz0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dvtMHJPTfU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZbYoHTP0ko

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JzU23XgpJo

Emil Miller

03-11-2011, 08:06 AM

Lokasenna

03-11-2011, 09:24 AM

Here's another favourite Sibelius piece accompanying a clever bit of animation. The animal's movements are brilliantly done and for anyone who has such a pet, it's also very moving.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX92pHpPc-k

I'm glad you're enjoying Sibelius at the moment. I recently listened through a huge mound of his work, and I really loved it - very powerful music.

Emil Miller

03-11-2011, 02:02 PM

I'm glad you're enjoying Sibelius at the moment. I recently listened through a huge mound of his work, and I really loved it - very powerful music.

The symphonies, tone poems and violin concerto mark Sibelius as a musical giant. His music has so many qualities that almost anyone who appreciates great music is taken with it and yet it is so individual in it's structure and tonality. With the exception of Richard Strauss, I don't think anyone uses horns to such great effect. Coincidentally, Valse Triste tells the same story as Strauss's Death and Transfiguration except that the moribund figure in the first is a woman. If you get a chance to hear the 2nd symphony by the Boston Symphony Orchestra conducted by Serge Koussevitzky on CD you will hear the definitive recording. I have a number of recordings of it and no conductor carries the musical line straight through from beginning to end as he did. Koussevitzky made two recordings of the 2nd with the BSO in 1935 and 1950. The 1935 on Naxos Historical is marginally better with marvellous re engineered sound in an amazingly powerful performance.There is a Youtube video of it but the sound is poor. The Gramophone Good CD guide says this about his 1933 recording of the 7th with the BBC symphony Orchestra:
It remains the most electrifying performance ever committed to disc, an account of extraordinary intensity and concentration, and the new transfer gives it a body and presence that are exhilarating.

Not bad for a recording that's 78 years old.

stlukesguild

03-11-2011, 10:19 PM

I have all of Sibelius' Symphonies and Tone Poems... and in some cases more than one recording... but for whatever reason I have been slow to warm to his work. However, I immediately fell in love with this magnificent recording:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5175/5518325443_ec178b3b2a.jpg

Lokasenna

03-12-2011, 05:01 AM

I've been listening through Simon Rattle's interpretations of Sibelius. According to my music mentor, none of his recordings of the symphonies are the absolute best, but the general quality is high overall.

Emil Miller

03-12-2011, 08:54 AM

I agree that favourite performances must be largely subjective in a genre such as music. In the case of Sibelius, the enormous power of the music does require a special application on the part of both orchestra and conductor. The emotional impact, as great as it is, runs parallel to a heightened awareness of the music's composition. In recorded versions sound quality is particularly important and the extract given below shows how clarity of sound enhances the overall effect of one of this composer's most famous works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0Jxi96LDm4

Lokasenna

03-12-2011, 09:23 AM

Today, I've been listening to some Korngold - a very underrated composer. This wonderful and subtle violin concerto must rank among the best of the genre:

Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EsYUuGo8XA)
Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRkuHKc9YJQ)
Part 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJEy8Vnm29c)

stlukesguild

03-12-2011, 11:24 AM

Unfortunately, his stint as a Hollywood film composer led to Korngold's reputation for "more corn than gold." His violin concerto was somewhat unfavorably received because of the dominance of Modernist atonality at the time, but I agree that it is a lovely piece. His early operas were also quite marvelous:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoGQd1dsAlw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1IrYxWRACE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQBo9Kjaa_I&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lF3tQV9aX8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqBFf7e_5QY&feature=related

Had Korngold, who was Jewish, not needed to remain in Hollywood as a result of the rise of Hitler, he might have represented a serious competition for the other great German operatic composer, Richard Strauss.

LitNetIsGreat

03-12-2011, 01:11 PM

Another version of Vivaldi's Stabat Mater, Jochen Kowalski:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YugP4IIzFnc&NR=1&feature=fvwp

Emil Miller

03-12-2011, 03:19 PM

One of the most amazing compositions ever and certainly very few pieces are as exciting. The ending always reminds me of being in a very fast car that suddenly loses control and does a terrific skid into a wall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsFP2FcEdxs

LitNetIsGreat

03-13-2011, 02:53 PM

Gershwin, Rhapsody in Blue:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9nG2KyEp2A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U40xBSz6Dc

Yes, as triggered by my current Woody Allen obsession. Mrs Neely is sick of Woody Allen, a film every other night - tough!!! If the broad has a probbblem she'll have to go an' see my analyst...

Emil Miller

03-13-2011, 05:16 PM

I used to think Rhapsody in Blue was pretty good until I heard this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4yJVsuzimo

A Woody Allen film every other night?
Who was the idiot that invented boxed sets?

LitNetIsGreat

03-13-2011, 06:01 PM

I used to think Rhapsody in Blue was pretty good until I heard this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4yJVsuzimo

A Woody Allen film every other night?
Who was the idiot that invented boxed sets?

Oh, yeah I like that one.

There's nothing wrong with box sets, it just depends what's in them. If it's Sex in the City vol 2, then yep I've got a problem, but Woody Allen, that's jazz man!

Emil Miller

03-13-2011, 07:07 PM

Oh, yeah I like that one.

There's nothing wrong with box sets, it just depends what's in them. If it's Sex in the City vol 2, then yep I've got a problem, but Woody Allen, that's jazz man!
Anyone who gets beyond vol 1 of 'Sex in the City" is beyond redemption, because pandering to mass psychology is the primary aim of the charlatans who make and sell such rubbish.
Woody Allen ( Allen Konigsberg) may be jazz man, but he is hardly a recommendation for those who understand what's going on.

LitNetIsGreat

03-13-2011, 07:43 PM

Oh Brian, you're so harsh to one so relatively young... (besides, one must follow one's whims).

I totally agree on the other point - I can't be in the same room as any of that sort of stuff.

Emil Miller

03-14-2011, 07:40 AM

I agree. Next time I'll use a smilie. :D

Petrarch's Love

03-15-2011, 06:44 PM

Poking my head back into the forums to see what people have been reading and listening to lately. St. Luke's--That looks like a great Sibelius recording. I should check it out. I don't think I have a recording of his seventh symphony.

I've been enjoying some fantastic piano concerts the last couple of weekends here in Chicago with absolutely spellbinding piano concerts, first by Eugeny Kissin, who is an absolute master of the instrument and not to be missed if he comes to a concert hall near you, and then, just this last weekend, by the very young female pianist Yuga Wang. The latter played an interesting if eclectic selection of romantic works, including several pieces by Alexander Scriabin, who had more or less been off my radar until now. Apparently he was such a devotee of Chopin that he used to sleep with scores of Chopin's music under his pillow. I think I still prefer Chopin, but was surprised with how compelling Scriabin could be, especially as expertly performed by Wang. I was also interested to discover some recordings on youtube of the composer playing his own works from a set of piano rolls made somewhere around the early teens:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3KbTSkB8XE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTTHm1KWrj4&feature=related

A recording of the second piece and one other as performed by Yuja Wang, the same pianist I heard this Sunday:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVUCXaKt538&playnext=1&list=PLB1CA2A96616D05A8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHVCkFRZYd4&playnext=1&list=PLE0958923391E5A2A

Edit: Having just come across the classical crushes thread for the first time, I realize that Brian no doubt looks upon my third row, keyboard side seat for the Yuja Wang performance with considerable envy. :D

Emil Miller

03-15-2011, 07:24 PM

If you really want to get the low down on YuJa Wang, you should visit the Classical Crushes thread, which has some amusing input from StLukes and others.

Despite its age, this is one of the most famous recordings of any piece of music ever made. Mengelberg was a giant among giants and, despite all the technical advances in recorded sound, no conductor today comes anywhere near him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4L2RDSNu44w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EyAS7fo7DQ

Heres Beecham with his usual panache in another historic recording.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x-0nbCGDM4

Mutatis-Mutandis

03-30-2011, 05:14 PM

Lokasenna

03-30-2011, 06:11 PM

I just heard this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_j426zXI0Q) the other day by Vivaldi. I haven't really gotten into much pre-Romantic classical yet, but I really liked this--loved the unusual instruments like the mandolins and recorders.

Oh boy, do you have some treats in store!

I love Romantic music as well, but some of the stuff from the Classical and Baroque periods is sheer rapture.

Armel P

03-30-2011, 06:48 PM

Lately, since I learned he has an upcoming speaking engagement, I've been listening to music by Tigran Mansurian. Particularly, the Ars Poetica and Monodia albums. Really amazing if you appreciate a minimalistic approach.

This is a great duo between viola and saxophone, off of Monodia:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_yRkUsSF7M

stlukesguild

03-30-2011, 08:53 PM

I quite like this work. It has elements of medieval chant with the modal underpinnings and the bending of notes. There are also elements that suggest Eastern-European folk music, klezmer... and of course jazz.

Played this one late last night.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5017/5585996514_e1e1d154cb.jpg

There is surely something to be said for listening to an opera in which one can understand the language... pick up on how the music is used to heighten or lend a certain color to a given word or phrase. Initially I was going to go with the original Britten/Peter Pears recording, but any number of reviews suggested that this more recent Bostridge.Rodgers pairing was even stronger and I can honestly say that I was in no way disappointed. Initially I had my doubts about the CD-Rom libretto... but I gotta say after using it, I love it. The PDF format allows me to enlarge the text to read it comfortably... much more comfortably that the micro-print most CD booklets allow.

The opera in question is a chamber-opera setting of Henry James classic tale. Where the original book leads us to believe that the ghost of Quint and Miss Jessel are all in the young governess mind, Britten's allowing us to see Quint and Miss Jessel leads us to wonder otherwise. Britten also plays up the loss of innocence (a common theme throughout his work) employing Yeats line from the Second Coming, "The ceremony of innocence is drowned..." with even greater suggestions of something horribly wrong having happened involving Quint and Miss Jessel... something suggestive of abuse of the children. The discomfort is further heightened if one knows of Britten's troubled sexual life.

Britten employs a twelve-tone "Screw Theme" which he runs through a series of 15 variations before each scene. While the music is largely tonal... with dramatic employments of dissonance, the twelve-tone theme and variation was an obvious nod to Schoenberg. The score makes repeated use of child-like music... nursery rhymes and such which a scoring suited to such. This in repeatedly contrasted with darker brooding passages highlighting the dark under-pinnings and the premonition of something not right.

Altogether a powerful musical drama in a marvelous performance.

For whatever reason, I'm not a huge fan of Russian music. Or perhaps I should say I'm not as much of a fan of Russian music as I was when I was younger. Tchaikovsky, Mussorgsky, etc... were among my first real classical loves. Such bombast and orchestral colors... how could the young Romantic not be swayed? But now...? It often strikes me as overly melodramatic and lacking the solidity of form.

Having said that much... this recording absolutely blew my socks off:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5146/5586995534_31228fa914.jpg

Valery Gergiev (who will forever garner my praise for having "discovered" Anna Netrebko) has famously been knocking the dust off many of the old Russian warhorses... as well as uncovering long-forgotten works (operas by Rimsky-Korsakov, Mussorgsky, Glinka, and of course Tchaikovsky). Here Gergiev offers up a white hot version of the entire Nutcracker played magnificently at lightning speed. This is the most eye and ear-opening recording of Russian music I have come across since Gergiev's own recording of Shostakovitch's opera The Nose. It shakes the dust off this piece to such a degree that I can no longer imagine myself limiting my listening to this marvelous music only at Christmas time.

Musicology

04-07-2011, 08:31 AM

Sergi Rachmaninov
Concerto No. 2
Finale
Conductor - Georgi Dimitrov
Soloist - Giorgi Cherkin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmm6p9jjwbM&feature=related

Mutatis-Mutandis

04-07-2011, 09:33 AM

Awesome video of Stravinsky conducting the finale to Firebird. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tGA6bpscj8)

Emil Miller

04-07-2011, 11:57 AM

This is an absolutely stunning performance of my favouruite concerto by, for my money, the greatest composer for piano of them all.

http://youtu.be/JAoQoZBTqLs

Here is a piece by Chopin, my 2nd favourite composer for the piano.

http://youtu.be/iFNULhgw2gw

Lokasenna

04-16-2011, 10:04 AM

Here is a piece by Chopin, my 2nd favourite composer for the piano.

http://youtu.be/iFNULhgw2gw

Wow, for her age she is very good...

Who's your number 1, just out of interest?

Emil Miller

04-16-2011, 12:39 PM

Wow, for her age she is very good...

Who's your number 1, just out of interest?

My favourite composer for piano is Rachmaninov, as mentioned above, but when it come to pianists the field is often specialised and the number too large to be specific. There are some brilliant young performers on the concert circuit these days.

I think that this girl has the potential to rival the very best pianists since the beginning of the 20th century.

http://youtu.be/NUTMn0uBgxA

Lokasenna

04-16-2011, 01:17 PM

My favourite composer for piano is Rachmaninov, as mentioned above, but when it come to pianists the field is often specialised and the number too large to be specific. There are some brilliant young performers on the concert circuit these days.

I think that this girl has the potential to rival the very best pianists since the beginning of the 20th century.

http://youtu.be/NUTMn0uBgxA

Ah, sorry - hadn't remembered you'd mentioned it up there.

Mutatis-Mutandis

04-17-2011, 01:14 AM

It's always the Asians. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0oH3S0uA54)

stlukesguild

04-17-2011, 11:40 PM

Emil Miller

04-18-2011, 05:33 PM

A culture that values education and would not dare to shame their parents. In spite of the success of the Asians as prodigals, few have survived to make it within the world of classical virtuoso performers. Within my entire collection of classical CDs (some 2000+) I have some 6 or 7 discs featuring Yo-Yo Ma, 3 or 4 with Myung-Whun Chung, 2 with Sumi Jo, and one conducted by Seiji Ozawa. At the same time, the only classical composers from Asia to have really broken into the West seem to have been Toru Takemitsu and Tan Dun. The biggest virtuosos (Anne Sophie Mutter, Murray Perahia, Rudolph Serkin, Marc-André Hamelin, Itzhak Perlman, Joshua Bell, David Barenboim, Julia Fischer, Hilary Hahn, Rachel Podger, Andrew Manze, Angela Hewitt, Andreas Schiff, Emmanuel Ax, Alfred Brendel, Jean-Efflam Bavouzet) solo vocalists (Rene Fleming, Philippe Jaroussky, Veronique Gens, Anne Sofie von Otter, Cecilia Bartoli, Anna Netrebko, Magdalena Kozena, Lorraine Hunt Lieberson, Rolando Villazon, Danielle de Niese, Bejun Mehta, Andreas Scholl, Michael Chance, Natalie Dessay, Sandrine Piau, Robin Blaze etc...) and conductors (John Eliot Gardiner, Emmanuelle Haïm, William Christie, Rinaldo Alessandrini, Rene Jacobs, Sir Charles Mackerras, Marc Minknowski, Ton Koopman, Esa-Pekka Salonen, Simon Rattle, Valery Gergiev, etc... although there is the brilliant Maasako Suzuki) all remain dominantly European and American.

You forgot to mention Mitsuko Uchida who for many years has been internationally acclaimed as a foremost exponent of Mozart's piano music. There is also Midori and Sarah Chang, who I am going to see this Thursday, both of whom are world famous and have been on the international concert circuit for many years. Tadakki Otaka was the resident conductor of the BBC National Orchestra of Wales for some years and also the Tokyo Philharmonic Orchestra.
Yundi Li and Lang Lang are pianists of the highest calibre, notwithstanding Lang's pop star antics and status in China. Yuja Wang has received rave reviews in the USA and elsewhere and Jung Lin is also being acclaimed as a major pianist.
Of course the field is dominated by European and American performers, how could it be otherwise with Western music? However, given the increasing numbers of star players emerging from the East, one must wonder how long this will remain the case.
For many years, the benchmark performance of Chopin's Fantasie Impromptu was that of Arthur Rubenstein. It was indeed breathtakingly played but Yundi Li's is its equal.

http://youtu.be/tvm2ZsRv3C8

stlukesguild

04-19-2011, 12:44 AM

You forgot to mention Mitsuko Uchida who for many years has been internationally acclaimed as a foremost exponent of Mozart's piano music. There is also Midori and Sarah Chang, who I am going to see this Thursday, both of whom are world famous and have been on the international concert circuit for many years. Tadakki Otaka was the resident conductor of the BBC National Orchestra of Wales for some years and also the Tokyo Philharmonic Orchestra.

Most of these performers simply haven't made it to my collection. I already have Brendel's Mozart as well as Serkin's and I'm still looking toward picking up Murray Perahia's which are unsurpassed among "traditional" performance recordings. Among the HIP performances the strongest I've found those of Malcolm Bilson and John Eliot Gardiner. Uchida is certainly quite acclaimed and I have a few solo discs of her Mozart performances as well as her acclaimed late sonatas of Schubert and Debussy's Etudes.

I tend to do a good deal of research in the critical press and listen to samples before purchasing any recording. A good deal of these Asian virtuosos are brilliant technicians... but so were many of those who went before them. At the same time, they haven't really brought anything new to the repertoire... nothing to lead me to wish to purchase yet another Tchaikovsky violin concert or Rachmaninoff 2nd piano concerto. You mention Rubinstein's Chopin... and indeed he is unrivaled... especially when it comes to the Nocturnes. Martha Argerich, Maurizio Pollini, and Krystian Zimerman are also a must. If one approaches this repertoire as a contemporary performer in the studio, one must recognize that one will be compared with all these predecessors who must be surpassed in some way... or one must offer something unique by way of the interpretation. While I prefer John Eliot Gardiner and Ton Koopman's interpretations when it comes to Bach (Gardiner may be my favorite living conductor and both he and Koopman have the advantages of some of the finest singers) I will freely admit, for example, that Maasako Suzuki and his brilliant Bach Collegium Japan bring something unique and absolute brilliant to the performances of Bach's choral works:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j7AWBvat9k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idsdL12wBro&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2JRo1xoov8&feature=related

The crisp, clear, stark... almost minimal approach to Bach by Suzuki is indeed quite brilliant (and I will probably look into more of Suzuli's interpretations after I amass the complete Gardiner cycle). I somewhat suspect, however, that you have allowed your love for Asian culture (and Asian women specifically) to color... or cloud... your judgment.

Emil Miller

04-19-2011, 03:34 PM

stlukesguild

04-19-2011, 05:31 PM

I think the Bach Collegium Japan is equally well respected here. I would suspect that the John Eliot Gardiner cycle...performed with the Monteverdi Choir and the English Chamber Orchestra in a single year in cathedrals across Europe and in the US... and upon the dates of the ecclesiastical calendar for which they were written... and brilliantly packaged... is an equally big deal:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5261/5635909788_b943b6c1bc.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5190/5635909826_1e233d8927.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5308/5635330329_f32d798cdf.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgidzvJN4Yo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJUxzl07PIw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxofmeULSQM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48dUc1klo9E&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9BGpntbUCs&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilpR4wbJZhc&feature=related

To say nothing of Ton Koopman's performances:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hh7iNA6P4E&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU6HSQJGBQ4

Listening to these performances and watching the documentary has me just itching to complete my entire cycle of Bach's cantatas. As much as I love Wagner, I must admit that the Ring has nothing on the Bach cycle of cantatas when it comes to the argument about the single greatest musical achievement in the history of Western music.

LitNetIsGreat

04-23-2011, 08:15 PM

I just feel the need for the ruggedness and power of Beethoven's 5th. Back to "basics".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4IRMYuE1hI

Emil Miller

04-27-2011, 10:10 AM

Does it get better than this?

http://youtu.be/6-lEsXVAjas

Patrick_Bateman

04-27-2011, 01:13 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx8t5O-j17s&feature=player_embedded#at=19

Nobody handles Handel like they handle Handel!

ralfyman

04-28-2011, 07:42 AM

I followed books like Libbey's and references like The Penguin Guide to put together a basic library of classical music. It also helps when there are annual sales, with collections offered at 60 pct off or better.

LitNetIsGreat

04-28-2011, 11:42 AM

Gerswin again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U40xBSz6Dc

Patrick_Bateman

04-30-2011, 07:22 AM

mal4mac

05-01-2011, 07:36 AM

I'm currently listening to Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli's absolutely thrilling performance of Ravel's Piano Concerto in G and Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerto no. 4. One of those "desert island" discs... the only version of the Ravel you will ever need. Insanely, this recording is currently out of print in the EMI catalog... although it is still available as a download.:(

This is a remarkable recording, one of the favourites in my collection. they must have heard you StLuke's! It's now available for a pittance at Amazon UK...

I just heard this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_j426zXI0Q) the other day by Vivaldi. I haven't really gotten into much pre-Romantic classical yet, but I really liked this--loved the unusual instruments like the mandolins and recorders.

It helps that it's performed by Pinnock and "The English Concert" - trail blazing HIPsters second to none. Type Pinnock into Amazon and check out his fabulous DG box bargains. I have the Vivaldi box and it is truly wonderful. I also have the Mozart symphony box - also fantastic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KI1lkt1v80

Next Haydn:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhC4yu-7hmo

... and Bach:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4bueaFp7JI

Mutatis-Mutandis

05-01-2011, 04:29 PM

It helps that it's performed by Pinnock and "The English Concert" - trail blazing HIPsters second to none. Type Pinnock into Amazon and check out his fabulous DG box bargains. I have the Vivaldi box and it is truly wonderful. I also have the Mozart symphony box - also fantastic:
Cool, I'll check 'em out.

stlukesguild

05-01-2011, 08:53 PM

This Haydn box set is particularly fine:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5021/5677549797_8cf446a5af.jpg

All to often Haydn's reputation as a symphonist rests solely upon his final 12, the so-called London Symphonies. Now and then his Paris Symphonies also make an appearance. But Haydn composed some 104+ symphonies and this set offers stellar performances of a great many of the strongest of these... especially those from his middle years during the height of the early German Romantic movement known as Sturm und Dreng. In these symphonies one senses Haydn's nearness not merely to Mozart but also to Beethoven.

mal4mac

05-02-2011, 08:07 AM

All to often Haydn's reputation as a symphonist rests solely upon his final 12, the so-called London Symphonies. Now and then his Paris Symphonies also make an appearance. But Haydn composed some 104+ symphonies and [Pinnock's] set offers stellar performances of a great many of the strongest of these...

Thanks for the vote of confidence on this set, St Luke. I think I'll have to get it. Have you listened to the Mozart box? As with Haydn, Mozart tends only to get praise for a handful of symphonies. Of course, some were composed when he was very young. But he got good very quickly (around 14?). Pinnock and his band were amazed on first encounter with the early works, they just couldn't believe they were so good. I heard several early symphonies on BBC Radio 3's Mozart 'every note' festival in the New Year and just had to get the box, a highlight amongst endless highlights...

stlukesguild

05-02-2011, 07:54 PM

I've never been overly impressed by any Mozart symphony prior to no. 25. Admittedly, they are quite brilliant considering his age, but I'm only really interested in what might be considered brilliant regardless of the age. I don't really think that Mozart started to take the symphony... nor the string quartet for that matter... seriously until his acquaintance and friendship with Haydn. Mozarts' piano concertos, on the other hand, show maturity quite early on. This probably owes to the fact that these were written as a means of highlighting his own virtuoso abilities. I have the Archiv box set of Mozart's piano concertos with John Eliot Gardiner and the English Baroque Soloists performing on period instruments. This is a marvelous set as well:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5065/5681471115_b6e0286d5b.jpg

Currently, the top rated cycle of Mozart's piano concertos is that of Murray Perahia... and I quite love everything I have by Perahia (Bach, Schubert, Beethoven, Schumann, Mendelssohn, etc...)...

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5023/5681471163_f68b1cbac0.jpg

Unfortunately, the set is on SONY and remains quite pricey.

I have several highly regarded collections of various Mozart symphonies, including:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5145/5681471289_1869696cf4.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5149/5681471347_03e34446e9.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5069/5682038700_f752461b1c.jpg

I'm currently looking at this highly rated box set on Telarc by Sir Charles Mackerras:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5182/5682038560_5f2690906f.jpg

From all I've read, his set comes closest to being a definitive recording.

Mutatis-Mutandis

05-02-2011, 10:40 PM

Ever since you posted that Bartok link in the Wagner thread, StLukes, I've been really digging his stuff and other stuff like it (I put his name in Pandora). I love that dissonant, what-many-find-unappealing sound.

mal4mac

05-03-2011, 11:22 AM

I've never been overly impressed by any Mozart symphony prior to no. 25. Admittedly, they are quite brilliant considering his age, but I'm only really interested in what might be considered brilliant regardless of the age.

The case for the opposition, no. 17:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KI1lkt1v80

Admittedly, very simple. But (to my ears) perfect - like a buttercup.

This is, admittedly, the first one that 'overly impressed' me in Pinnock's set, but I greatly enjoyed at least half of the others up to that point, and the rest were 'interesting' (given that I *really* like Mozart...)

I agree with you about the Piano Concertos - I listened to Murry Perahia's set immediately after the symphonies and was totally bowled over by them. It's probably the first thing I would grab if a tornado was heading my way. Maybe I'll have to get the Bilson/Gardiner set as well. Do you find yourself listening to both sets frequently?

In my notes I have 11 symphonies marked down as outstanding, and 20 piano concertos (!)

The "Third Ear" guide reserves the highest praise for Pinnock in the early symphonies (1-25), while calling Mackerras "...dull..." - he gets some praise for some later symphonies

I think Pinnock's performances of the later symphonies compare well to others that I have ... which include Marriner & Bohm ... so the Pinnock set is a good 'one covers all' purchase, I feel.

stlukesguild

05-04-2011, 11:49 PM

The "Third Ear" guide reserves the highest praise for Pinnock in the early symphonies (1-25), while calling Mackerras "...dull..." - he gets some praise for some later symphonies...

I've never come across this critical tome. I'll suggest that it is possible... considering the date of publication... that the author was not overly fond of the more HIP approach to music... but again, I don't know. I tend to look at several critics... and avoid those whose taste frequently differs from my own. I had one guide that was well written... quite comically entertaining at times... but the writer wasn't fond of Bach!!!:out:, he dislike Herbert von Karajan (who he repeatedly called a Nazi), and suggested that Messiaen was the only composer who ever made him physically ill. Needless to say... I couldn't take his word at face value too often.

Here is Mackerras in the finale from the 41st:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prvBEXbnDR0&feature=related

Quite muscular... you can certainly hear where Beethoven is going to come out of this music.

Here's Pinnock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHSGEhQM9hs&feature=related

His interpretation strikes me as more elegant... gallant... It sounds quite a bit closer to the classic Sir Neville Marriner recordings which I already have... and love... thanks to the fact that it was through them in the film Amadeus that I truly came to love Mozart.

And here's Bohm... a master of the "old school" (Romantic) approach:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRUlzJn8UeU

Hogwood's set has been highly praised among aficionados of the HIP approach to Mozart... but his complete set is quite expensive:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rETZaTRFHe8

And then there's Minkowski's Mozart on a motorcycle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYSWYhhsyy4

I have my eye on his complete set of Haydn's London Symphonies.

When I pick up a second interpretation of a work it's generally because the interpretation has not only garnered a good deal of critical praise, but also because it is sufficiently different from what I already have. I would avoid the Pinnock set for that reason... as it doesn't seem sufficiently removed from Marriner's interpretation. I would jump on a complete Minkowski set... but alas, none exists as of yet.

mal4mac

05-05-2011, 06:24 AM

Musicology

05-06-2011, 05:59 PM

JS Bach
Cantata 105

"Herr, gehe nicht ins Gericht mit deinem Knecht" BWV 105

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lviabtG0Pd0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsyulvUwMGU&feature=related

stlukesguild

05-06-2011, 10:30 PM

Any posts acknowledging the genius of Mozart make Robert nervous, and he must immediately counter them with something by J.S. Bach. Nothing to fear, Robert, much as I love Mozart, Bach still remains unrivaled in my opinion. I just picked up this marvelous disc... part of the entire cycle of Bach's cantatas performed by the Bach Collegium Japan and Masaaki Suzuki:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5262/5691676351_b88626a945.jpg

Incredibly, I picked up the disc through an Amazon dealer for just $2 US! An absolute steal. I'm quite liking the cantata BWV 155... especially the lovely duet, Du musst glauben:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoMsrOyfFMo

The performance here is by the equally marvelous Ton Koopman and the Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra.

mal4mac

05-07-2011, 06:45 AM

This jumped out of the radio onto my "must buy" list recently:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA1L0SsEXxU

Bach - Concerto for 4 Harpsichords in A Minor BWV 1065

Another Pinnock box :) Interesting comparison, Koopman:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfJzPOlpEfU

So, Pinnock or Koopman or ...?

Musicology

05-08-2011, 11:15 AM

Hi there St Lukesguild,

You may be aware of a problem of musical attribution that is common for virtually all 'great' composers of the 18th century. So says everyone who examines music of that century. A massive and yet almost unknown example being the music of the alleged musical 'genius' W.A. Mozart. Who was no more a genius than you or I. So say those who have actually examined the evidence. But why let the views of those who have examined this question in detail get in the way of a hugely popular and never criticised fairy story ? Each must be free to believe what he/she likes (with or without them examining the evidence). Ask them to name, for example, some composers active in Mozart's Vienna and say whether they have actually heard their music. It's funny. Try the same for Beethoven's time.

Case Closed.

Anyway, music matters.

Antonio Vivaldi -
Aria - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX83BSR0mug&feature=related

JC Bach
Aria from 'Carattaco'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If95os01u6U

p.s. The Bach was sublime. Thanks for that.

Any posts acknowledging the genius of Mozart make Robert nervous, and he must immediately counter them with something by J.S. Bach. Nothing to fear, Robert, much as I love Mozart, Bach still remains unrivaled in my opinion. I just picked up this marvelous disc... part of the entire cycle of Bach's cantatas performed by the Bach Collegium Japan and Masaaki Suzuki:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5262/5691676351_b88626a945.jpg

Incredibly, I picked up the disc through an Amazon dealer for just $2 US! An absolute steal. I'm quite liking the cantata BWV 155... especially the lovely duet, Du musst glauben:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoMsrOyfFMo

The performance here is by the equally marvelous Ton Koopman and the Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra.

Hi mal4mac,

The Pinnock recordings are recognised to be amongst the finest ever made. (Made in the last years of vinyl records. With some of the best sound engineers of that time). Played on a valve amplifier with a high quality stylus and good speakers this is totally amazing stuff.

I once saw Trevor Pinnock and the English Baroque rehearsing this work at Westminster Abbey. Long time ago. Unforgettable experience. The place was overflowing in minutes with tourists and others on lunch to listen.

BWV 1063/3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WrKyhgtOBA&feature=related

'Bach is another planet' (A. Daudet)

This jumped out of the radio onto my "must buy" list recently:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA1L0SsEXxU

Bach - Concerto for 4 Harpsichords in A Minor BWV 1065

Another Pinnock box :) Interesting comparison, Koopman:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfJzPOlpEfU

So, Pinnock or Koopman or ...?

Emil Miller

05-09-2011, 04:48 PM

I have posted this elsewhere on Litnet, but because I agree with the comment below, I am posting it again. I challenge anybody to post something comparable.
The infuriating thing is that the Berlin Philharmonic are unable to issue a DVD of it for contractural reasons.

This has to be one of the greatest 3 minutes in the entire symphonic literature....And what trombones! What horns! What trumpets! What an orchestra......

http://youtu.be/xK7z2NhUrsQ

TacoButt

05-09-2011, 05:07 PM

Mutatis-Mutandis

05-09-2011, 05:09 PM

I just got a "best of" Stravinsky 2 CD set, and man, he was pretty trippy. I didn't realize how out there he was, but I like it. I was wondering, was anyone else doing what he was doing when he was doing it? From what I've heard, no.

Musicology

05-09-2011, 05:13 PM

The Last of the Musical Bachs

In the German music journal ‘Neue Zeitschrif fur Musik’ dated 4th May 1843 the composer and music editor Robert Schumann describes a visit to Leipzig for the unveiling of a statute to JS Bach. (It had recently been donated to the city by Felix Mendelssohn). But what surprised everyone assembled there was the appearance of a remarkable looking old man. Of whom Schumann wrote later -

‘Honour was paid not only to Bach but also to the appearance of his only surviving grandson, a man named Wilhelm Friedrich Ernst Bach, a man of around 84 years old, still full of ener
gy, who was also present with his snow-white hair and expressive features. (No-one even knew of his existence at that time, not even Felix Mendelssohn, who had lived in Berlin for so long he supposed he had covered every trace of Bach that could possibly be discovered). And yet, remarkably, this man, his grandson, had been living there for almost 40 years. No information was received about his circumstances except he once filled the office of Kapellmeister to King Willelm Friedrich 3rd and now lives on a pension’

(W.F.E. Bach died aged 86 and, with him ended the direct male lineage to his grandfather).

W.F.E. Bach (1759-1845)
Overture and Recitative
From Cantata ‘Westphalens Freude’
Rheinische Kontorei
Das Kleine Konzert
Hermann Max, Conductor

http://www.mediafire.com/?18bga096xng45ta

Emil Miller

05-09-2011, 06:05 PM

Wow, that was something incredible! Have you ever listened to the digital concerts online?

Love those rotary valve trumpets. We do not see those very often in USA.

The problem is that when you go to the website given, you get a list of forthcoming BPO concerts. Although there seems to be some facility for downloading the concert, the procedure isn't clear. As someone has pointed out, the stupendous sound quality may be as much due to the sound engineer as the orchestra, but it surely has to be one of the most stunning performances of any piece of music ever recorded. As for the rotary valve trumpets, they may have been specified in the original score: Richard Strauss being possibly the greatest orchestrator in musical history.

mal4mac

05-10-2011, 06:37 AM

Hi mal4mac,

I once saw Trevor Pinnock and the English Baroque rehearsing this work at Westminster Abbey. Long time ago. Unforgettable experience. The place was overflowing in minutes with tourists and others on lunch to listen.

BWV 1063/3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WrKyhgtOBA&feature=related

'Bach is another planet' (A. Daudet)

Is there anyone better than Pinnock on the harpsichord?

I have Perahia's set of keyboard concertos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJSU1knqPSY

I don't usually like to collect copies of the same works, but might make an exception for Pinnock's set:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLrNhMGPQtk

Vive la difference!

Bach has no known descendants living today. His great-granddaughter, Frau Carolina Augusta Wilhelmine Ritter, who died 13 May 1871, was his last known descendant. [1] (The article from which this was taken was written in 1930. It is currently believed that there are 15 living direct descendants of J.S. Bach bearing the name Von Colson. Source: Boyd, Malcolm & John Butt (Editors) (1999). J.S. Bach. Oxford: Oxford University Press. 29. ISBN-10: 0198662084. ISBN-13: 978-0198662082.)

Mutatis-Mutandis

05-10-2011, 09:01 AM

I just bought a few of Bach's concertos for three harpsichords, and one for four harpsichords, both with Pinnock. I'm really liking them.

I've also noticed that in a lot of classical period music, there's no brass instruments. When were they first incorporated into an orchestra?

Musicology

05-10-2011, 11:14 AM

Hi Mutatis Mutandi,

Yes, the Pinnock set of Bach concertos is certainly one of the best ever made.

French Horns (without valves) were introduced into Bohemia and Germany in the early 1730's (from France) with patrons who were keen hunters and there were virtuoso players there within a few decades for whom orchestral parts started to be written. The trumpet is of course a very ancient instrument and there were guilds of trumpeters for centuries across Europe in many towns. The earliest concertos for that instrument are late 17th century. The trombone became especially popular in the late 18th century although it was known in ancient Rome. Beethoven is credited with writing sets of multiple trombone 'equali' in the early 19th century that are interesting to hear.

Regards

I just bought a few of Bach's concertos for three harpsichords, and one for four harpsichords, both with Pinnock. I'm really liking them.

I've also noticed that in a lot of classical period music, there's no brass instruments. When were they first incorporated into an orchestra?

Further to the above reference to little known composer Wilhelm Friedrich Ernst Bach (1759-1845) here's the end of his celebration cantata, 'Westphalia Freude'

WFE Bach
Terzetto/Choral Finale
Cantata
'Westphalia Freude'

http://www.mediafire.com/?hbshshxzrbhd532

Hi mal4mac

Yes, that concerto (BWV 1056) is quite wonderful -

So is this -

BWV 1060/3
Trevor Pinnock
English Concert

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzVGrazF3L4&feature=related

Is there anyone better than Pinnock on the harpsichord?

I have Perahia's set of keyboard concertos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJSU1knqPSY

I don't usually like to collect copies of the same works, but might make an exception for Pinnock's set:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLrNhMGPQtk

Vive la difference!

Emil Miller

05-10-2011, 05:35 PM

Amusing to find that a handful of Richard Strauss immediately brought the 'classicists' clucking from their coop. Whilst, admittedly, Bach, Mozart et al, promise heaven, Strauss actually takes the listener there.

http://youtu.be/TdhoDoIycBI

Mutatis-Mutandis

05-10-2011, 06:24 PM

I've only recently began getting into the classical era composers.

stlukesguild

05-10-2011, 11:27 PM

Whilst, admittedly, Bach, Mozart et al, promise heaven, Strauss actually takes the listener there.

And when he get's there he'll discover that God is Bach.:D:brow:

Seriously, Brian, I personally rate Richard Strauss as the greatest composer of the 20th century. His operas are unrivaled in the century... and matched or surpassed but by a few of the greatest works in the whole of opera. The Alpine Symphony is most assuredly brilliant... although my favorite composition by Strauss would probably be his Four Last Songs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVWrjDEVrHo

mal4mac

05-11-2011, 08:01 AM

[COLOR="DarkRed"]I personally rate Richard Strauss as the greatest composer of the 20th century...[/URL]

I like the works you mention but I can think of several I like just about as much, e.g., certain Vaughan Williams pieces are at least as high in my estimation. Tallis Fantasia:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c3XvNZ3ns4

But there's so much competition. Just yesterday I was blown away by John Adams' Harmonielehre on BBC radio 3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FygogByf6K0&feature=related

Musicology

05-11-2011, 09:15 AM

What I like about JS Bach is he showed godlike qualities (of having lived in this world long enough to reject its basic falseness, and was rejected throughout most of his life and for many more decades - for writing works that defy and will always defy any real comparison with those of anyone else). And 'they' knew it. But his music is now recognised as the end of the musical conversation and really its beginning. One learns, almost as a sort of afterthought, to speak in educated/cultured company of 'great' composers. As a sort of antidote. As one might speak of the fancied runners and riders in a bogus race - though they are 'also rans'. Because there's nothing more to say. It was made that way. Since Bach was not great. He was an ordinary man.

Make no mistake - Bach is the most stupendous musical gift ever given to mankind. His thoughts on God are a matter of record. He was not God but as musically close to Him as it may be humanly possible to be. And we may still hear this for ourselves. Perhaps that was a reason for his remarkable life.

Sanctus
B Minor Mass
New Philharmonia Orchestra
Otto Klemperer
BBC Chorus
Agnes Giebel, Soprano

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdFIXyk87zE&feature=related

Whilst, admittedly, Bach, Mozart et al, promise heaven, Strauss actually takes the listener there.

And when he get's there he'll discover that God is Bach.:D:brow:

Seriously, Brian, I personally rate Richard Strauss as the greatest composer of the 20th century. His operas are unrivaled in the century... and matched or surpassed but by a few of the greatest works in the whole of opera. The Alpine Symphony is most assuredly brilliant... although my favorite composition by Strauss would probably be his Four Last Songs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVWrjDEVrHo

Sano

05-11-2011, 10:11 AM

Since everyone is already discussing my favorite composer (Bach) I think I'd contribute more to the discussion if I posted something about a relatively obscure modernist composer, Ustvolskaya. Before I heard her works I didn't really cared much about modernist classical music, but this sonata in particular made me start listening to modernist music. It was a great revelation for me to discover that not only "harmonious" music deserves appreciation, and that music that "makes sense" internally is sufficient.

This is the sonata: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvELcETEtQg Any thoughts?

Emil Miller

05-11-2011, 10:19 AM

Four Last Songs[/I].

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVWrjDEVrHo

Strauss's last composition and undoubtedly one of his greatest. This is the version that I bought years ago. My favourite is 'Im Abendrot' which leaves nothing else to be said.

http://youtu.be/6YD_8E4ZVxY

I like the works you mention but I can think of several I like just about as much, e.g., certain Vaughan Williams pieces are at least as high in my estimation. Tallis Fantasia:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c3XvNZ3ns4

I posted this same recording a while back as representing the quintessential music of England.

stlukesguild

05-11-2011, 11:11 PM

I like the works you mention but I can think of several I like just about as much, e.g., certain Vaughan Williams pieces are at least as high in my estimation. Tallis Fantasia:

I think when it comes down to naming a single artist as one of the "greatest"... or "the greatest" of a given era, this is something that must be based upon breadth and depth of the oeuvre as a whole... not merely a few brilliant works. I would probably argue for The Rite of Spring as the Modernist work par excellence. I go with Strauss as the single greatest composer of the century because of his oeuvre as a whole. His early works contain some marvelous classical compositions in the vein of Beethoven and Brahms. These, in many ways, are the work of the dutiful son, avoiding Wagner as his father insisted he should.

Eventually, however, he transgresses his father's will and discovers the brilliance of Wagner. Wagner inspires the great tone poems in which Strauss truly finds his own voice. These are among the greatest examples of the entire genre of the tone poem... and exhibit some of the most brilliant orchestration of the century.

Strauss' orchestral work then abruptly ends. He continues to compose lieder... some of the finest of the century... carrying on in the narrative tradition of Hugo.

It is with opera, however, that Strauss achieves unrivaled work. His Elektra and Salome employ the lushness of late Wagner... but to these he brings a psycho-sexual intensity... a disturbing eroticism worthy of decadent Vienna. He essentially establishes German Expressionism in music. After WWI he breaks away from the extremes of these works and like many artists of the time, turns to a form of Neo-Classicism. His Rosenkavalier, in many ways builds upon the tradition of operas by Mozart... as well as Johann Strauss. And yet... like Mozart... there is a depth and melancholy behind the glittering wit and deftness of touch. In part this is owed to Strauss' unerring choice in librettists. Only Mozart with da Ponte, Wagner's own librettos (and few others) equal the texts by Oscar Wilde (Salome), Hugo von Hofmannsthal, Stefan Zweig, and the great conductor, Clemens Krauss. These three operas may be the most famous of Strauss operatic achievements, but he also had a number of further operas that were unquestionably major works: Ariadne auf Naxos, Die Frau ohne Schatten, Die ägyptische Helena, Arabella, Intermezzo, Die schweigsame Frau, Daphne and Strauss's final opera, Capriccio. There are any number who would argue for Die Frau ohne Schatten or even Capriccio as his greatest operatic achievement. Strauss' only real operatic competitor in the 20th century would have been Puccini, and he is far more innovative that Puccini, rivals him for sheer splendor and lush beauty... and far surpasses his in emotional intensity.

Strauss crowns the whole of his oeuvre with his orchestral "Four Last Songs" which is surely the greatest song cycle of the century.

Still, I agree, there are worthy competitors. Surely there is Stravinsky... although he rarely engages me as fully as Strauss... or many others. Prokofiev can't be ignored... nor Shostakovitch (although I find a lot of his symphonic works "lumpen" and ponderous in contrast to his song cycles, his preludes and fugues, his works for cello, and his two brilliant operas, The Nose and Lady MacBeth of Mtsensk. And of course there's also Bartok... and Debussy... can't forget Debussy who would probably be my choice for no. 2.

As for the English... well certainly I love Vaughan-Williams... (indeed, if I'm honest, I must admit to a far greater collection of British music than Russian!!!:yikes:) although I probably prefer Frederick Delius. But then there's also Bax, Elgar, Finzi, Roger Quilter, John Ireland, Ivor Gurney, Peter Warlock, Herbert Howells, William Alwynn, Walton, and Ernest Moeran... all pastorally beautiful at times... and then there's perhaps the greatest Brit of the century: Benjamen Britten.

mal4mac

05-12-2011, 07:20 AM

I think when it comes down to naming a single artist as one of the "greatest"... or "the greatest" of a given era, this is something that must be based upon breadth and depth of the oeuvre as a whole... not merely a few brilliant works. I would probably argue for The Rite of Spring as the Modernist work par excellence. I go with Strauss as the single greatest composer of the century because of his oeuvre as a whole. His early works contain some marvelous classical compositions in the vein of Beethoven and Brahms. These, in many ways, are the work of the dutiful son, avoiding Wagner as his father insisted he should.

In the case of Vaughan Williams, it's not just a few brilliant works. All his symphonies are highly rated. Having listened to these, and most of Strauss' tone poems, Vaughan Williams just edges it for me (today!) Don't you think Strauss' output is rather lacking when it comes to symphonies? Or do you count his tone poems as symphonies?

I agree Shostakovitch is a contender... great breadth, and long cycles (!)... I'd put in a word for his string quartets as well...

And Stravinsky... I listened to the Haitink "Decca Double" recently... great stuff... he's not just a one work wonder, though "Rite" is the highlight...

What about Rachmaninov?

Delius, Bax, et. al, tend to get a fairly bad press, still, in the UK. But I usually like what crops up on BBC Radio 3. I just bought Beecham's "English Music" box ... mostly Delius ... and Bax is in my sights... Benjamin Britten is a bit too atonal for me... so far...

LitNetIsGreat

05-12-2011, 08:32 AM

Strauss's last composition and undoubtedly one of his greatest. This is the version that I bought years ago. My favourite is 'Im Abendrot' which leaves nothing else to be said.

http://youtu.be/6YD_8E4ZVxY

I very much enjoyed listening to this last night - the full thing, I'm going to do so later with a glass of wine (Chablis) in hand.

Musicology

05-12-2011, 09:16 AM

''And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; Of whom the world was not worthy - they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth'' - (Book of Hebrews)

JS Bach
Aria
Mache dich meine Herze rein
BWV 244
Thomas Quasthoff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjoGspzkYw8&feature=related

Lokasenna

05-12-2011, 11:41 AM

Emil Miller

05-12-2011, 01:21 PM

I agree when it comes to Strauss - I've been listening to some of his stuff recently. Last night I listened to the Four Last Songs and Metamorphosen - incredible, poignant, sadly beautiful and profoundly moving.

As to whether he was the best of the century, that's a hard one to call.

I too have Metamorphosen as well as the Four Last songs, both written when Strauss had seen opera houses and concert halls in Germany reduced to rubble and all the more remarkable in consequence. What is even more remarkable is that he took the musical world by storm at the age of 21 with his tone poem Don Juan and was only 25 when he produced Death and Transfiguration. His early study of aesthetics enabled him to produce sounds that no other composer, with the possible exception of Mahler - and setting aside the twelve-tone works of Berg and Webern- and raise the emotional impact of orchestral music to a new level. I would agree with StLukes that he is the twentieth century's greatest composer

LitNetIsGreat

05-12-2011, 04:45 PM

Emil Miller

05-12-2011, 06:36 PM

I have unanimously decided that it is Puccini night in the Neely household tonight. With a nice bottle of Chablis flowing, a 60 play list of Puccini fully loaded and two naked ladies rubbing my toes; life doesn't get much better than this. :yesnod:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu5TkdcZA-M&feature=list_related&playnext=1&list=AVGxdCwVVULXcvJ28mK0CYbgY0252rPfMB

OK, so I was lying about the naked ladies, but everything else is true!

If you are looking at music that speaks from the heart, rather than from the brain, then Puccini is your man. Romanticism is the apogee of musical development for those who instinctively relate to music as opposed those who have to think about it first.

LitNetIsGreat

05-12-2011, 07:03 PM

If you are looking at music that speaks from the heart, rather than from the brain, then Puccini is your man. Romanticism is the apogee of musical development for those who instinctively relate to music as opposed those who have to think about it first.

Ha, ha, ha you cold hearted fellow. I make it my mission to fall in love at least once a day!

I formally declare May 12th as Puccini day and I am happy for it. I am sorry with all my heart to find you so resolute, but I'll keep my Puccini day to the last. So a merry Puccini day uncle Emil and god bless you all!!

:cheers2:

stlukesguild

05-12-2011, 07:14 PM

In the case of Vaughan Williams, it's not just a few brilliant works. All his symphonies are highly rated. Having listened to these, and most of Strauss' tone poems, Vaughan Williams just edges it for me (today!) Don't you think Strauss' output is rather lacking when it comes to symphonies? Or do you count his tone poems as symphonies?

Yes... I quite love Vaughan-Williams' symphonies... although I doubt that any of them is really overly innovative. Perhaps the symphony was rather a dead form in the 20th century... at least in the sense of being the form where one is presented with major innovative works... compare this with the symphony under mahler, Bruckner, Brahms, Schubert, Beethoven, etc... I agree that Strauss' symphonic work is not enough to make him a contender for the title of "greatest" composer of the century. IT is the operas that are his greatest achievement.

I agree Shostakovitch is a contender... great breadth, and long cycles (!)... I'd put in a word for his string quartets as well...

Yes... I forgot the quartets... and I would also add the quartets to the major works of Bartok's oeuvre that make him a contender.

And Stravinsky... I listened to the Haitink "Decca Double" recently... great stuff... he's not just a one work wonder, though "Rite" is the highlight...

What about Rachmaninov?

Certainly a worthy contender. He was long dismissed by many as too conservative, but lets face it, his is a major body of work that outweighs many of the more innovative composers. You have several great symphonies, several brilliant piano concertos, 3 brief but worthy operas, a great body of Romance (or Russian art songs), the Preludes, the Rhapsody on a Theme by Paganini, and the great choral works including The Bells and the Vespers.

Delius, Bax, et. al, tend to get a fairly bad press, still, in the UK. But I usually like what crops up on BBC Radio 3. I just bought Beecham's "English Music" box ... mostly Delius ... and Bax is in my sights... Benjamin Britten is a bit too atonal for me... so far...

Britten's Cello Suites and his violin and piano concerto are particularly fine. His greatest work is as a composer of vocal music... this includes a good number of marvelous song cycles, his brilliant choral works (perhaps culminating in the War Requiem) and his operas.

Musicology

05-13-2011, 08:32 AM

Nikolai Rimsky Korsakov (1844-1908)
Shéhérazade
2nd Mvt/Part 2
Kurt Masur
Leipzig Gewandhausorchester

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f03wesOMIOI&feature=related

mal4mac

05-13-2011, 09:34 AM

New World Symphony II (part 1) by Antonin Dvorak (1841–1904). Wiener Philharmoniker. Herbert von Karajan, conductor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYl4Xb4cDQ8

Emil Miller

05-13-2011, 09:35 AM

Ha, ha, ha you cold hearted fellow. I make it my mission to fall in love at least once a day!

I formally declare May 12th as Puccini day and I am happy for it. I am sorry with all my heart to find you so resolute, but I'll keep my Puccini day to the last. So a merry Puccini day uncle Emil and god bless you all!!

:cheers2:

You misinterpretd my post. I am fully in agreement with your comments on Puccini as representing music that is readily accessible to millions of people, as opposed to that which isn't. Music is at the same time both cerebral and emotional, but the tendency to downplay the emotional side should be left to musicians who are more likely to be concerned with the technical aspects of a composition.
As music speaks much more than words, here is what I mean: the first piece being something I am always willing to play and the second something that I would never contemplate as I prefer to keep my piano unsullied by anything that has no emotional input no matter how clever we are told that it is.

http://youtu.be/HH2pOUxmAHM

http://youtu.be/n4Nx-unHOOM

mal4mac

05-13-2011, 10:03 AM

... I prefer to keep my piano unsullied by anything that has no emotinal input no matter how clever we are told that it is.

What if you were offered a free helicopter ride?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13D1YY_BvWU

Phew. Now I need:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUJagb7hL0E

Full orchestral version :)

Emil Miller

05-13-2011, 11:43 AM

What if you were offered a free helicopter ride?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13D1YY_BvWU

Phew. Now I need:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUJagb7hL0E

Full orchestral version :)

The first piece brings to mind the celebrated saying attributed to P.T.Barnum.
As for the second, the least they could have done was to give an encore.

TacoButt

05-13-2011, 12:17 PM

Obviously, she hit a wrong note right there at the pick-up to letter "B". But who cares...:drool5:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4Nx-unHOOM&feature=related

Obviously, she hit a wrong note right there at the pick-up to letter "B". But who cares...:drool5:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4Nx-unHOOM&feature=related

Oh, and can any German speakers help settle something that my friend and I were wondering?

Is it pronounced "Stockhausen" as in "stock house en"

or is it "shtock house en"?

LitNetIsGreat

05-13-2011, 12:36 PM

You misinterpretd my post. I am fully in agreement with your comments on Puccini as representing music that is readily accessible to millions of people, as opposed to that which isn't. Music is at the same time both cerebral and emotional, but the tendency to downplay the emotional side should be left to musicians who are more likely to be concerned with the technical aspects of a composition.
As music speaks much more than words, here is what I mean: the first piece being something I am always willing to play and the second something that I would never contemplate as I prefer to keep my piano unsullied by anything that has no emotional input no matter how clever we are told that it is.

http://youtu.be/HH2pOUxmAHM

http://youtu.be/n4Nx-unHOOM

Oh yes I understand, sorry, silly me - too much wine. I had assumed that you were not a fan of Puccini, but then again how could I think that with the likes of Madam Butterfly and all...;)

What if you were offered a free helicopter ride?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13D1YY_BvWU

Phew. Now I need:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUJagb7hL0E

Full orchestral version

Oh dear me. I can imagine some of the folks in the audience after in the bar, talking about how "profound" it was, like the silly commentators afterwards, oh dear.

Emil Miller

05-13-2011, 02:30 PM

Oh, and can any German speakers help settle something that my friend and I were wondering?

Is it pronounced "Stockhausen" as in "stock house en"

or is it "shtock house en"?

The pronunciation in German would be Shtockhowzen

Oh dear me. I can imagine some of the folks in the audience after in the bar, talking about how "profound" it was, like the silly commentators afterwards, oh dear.

Yes I can imagine the conversation between Cage and his agent:

"But John, we would never get away with it."

"Look Hymie, we're in the second half of the twentieth century. Of coure we'll get away with it."

Out of interest, I've checked out Cage and he seems to have spent his life hanging around with various arty types and some who are, quite frankly, weirdos. Here is a typical extract from his autobiographical writing:

"It was in the fifties that I left the city and went to the country. There I found Guy Nearing, who guided me in my study of mushrooms and other wild edible plants...."

To which one can only add, hmm...?

[QUOTE=TacoButt;1034001]Obviously, she hit a wrong note right there at the pick-up to letter "B". But who cares...:drool5: QUOTE]

Yes I see what you mean, with a suitable set of ear plugs I could watch her for hours.

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/8774/altarisoluzione3800x600.jpg

Lokasenna

05-13-2011, 05:18 PM

TacoButt

05-13-2011, 08:50 PM

Yes, I've always felt that 4'33" was a musical cop-out. Though it fills me with a sense of pride that even one whose musical talents are as miserable as mine could play a widely recognized and performed piece of modern orchestral music.

Here is another way to perceive the philosophy of 4' 33" (something that is, with Cage, often just as much of a "statement" as the piece itself)...

Since roughly Beethoven (the first significant musical iconoclast to tell the aristocracy to take a hike since there were "many princes but only ONE Beethoven") the idea of music was something that emanated from an inspired genius and "received" (if one were lucky and not too stupid) by the audience.

The European tradition throughout the 19th Century and into the 20th seemed to be lead by iconic and larger-than-life FIGURES which were men (usually) of genius (and obvious mental stability issues) who "conveyed" their emotions and their personal and unique visions through music to the masses.

(We still have some vestiges of this idea today. Many indie rock stars interview poorly, staring off vacantly into space, speaking from very lofty heights and usually have fairly grandious concepts of the significance of their art. The fans usually gobble it all up and worship them as gods.)

But what Cage did is flip the entire model on its head. He is saying, in effect, "the audience is the composer." They are the ones who are assembling the various sounds into something aesthetically coherent and meaningful. Without the audience, there would be no music.

"Emotion" or "meaning" cannot be encoded into notes and rhythms. The acoustic events are triggers which the audience must process in their own way and actually respond to auditory data and create a musical experience FROM it.

If you are frantically looking for your keys because you are late and Brahms 3rd Symphony is playing in the background, it is actually NOISE not music. The sound is not being received and processed and created as a musical experience.

When the listener is not prepared or ready to have a musical experience, there IS no music. It is only unwanted sound....noise.

So the reverse is also true. I can sit and listen to a conversation in a foreign language that I do not understand and I may listen to the rhythms, melodic intonations, phrases and articulations, emphasis, etc. If I direct my musical intent toward this sound, I can listen to it as MUSIC.

The statue of the towering figures should not be burned, they are still to be admired and loved for their creation. But next to it (at the same height) must be the bust of the individual listener. BOTH are needed for music to happen.

Does this resonate with anyone or is it just a pile of crap?

Lokasenna

05-14-2011, 03:28 AM

Here is another way to perceive the philosophy of 4' 33" (something that is, with Cage, often just as much of a "statement" as the piece itself)...

Since roughly Beethoven (the first significant musical iconoclast to tell the aristocracy to take a hike since there were "many princes but only ONE Beethoven") the idea of music was something that emanated from an inspired genius and "received" (if one were lucky and not too stupid) by the audience.

The European tradition throughout the 19th Century and into the 20th seemed to be lead by iconic and larger-than-life FIGURES which were men (usually) of genius (and obvious mental stability issues) who "conveyed" their emotions and their personal and unique visions through music to the masses.

(We still have some vestiges of this idea today. Many indie rock stars interview poorly, staring off vacantly into space, speaking from very lofty heights and usually have fairly grandious concepts of the significance of their art. The fans usually gobble it all up and worship them as gods.)

But what Cage did is flip the entire model on its head. He is saying, in effect, "the audience is the composer." They are the ones who are assembling the various sounds into something aesthetically coherent and meaningful. Without the audience, there would be no music.

"Emotion" or "meaning" cannot be encoded into notes and rhythms. The acoustic events are triggers which the audience must process in their own way and actually respond to auditory data and create a musical experience FROM it.

If you are frantically looking for your keys because you are late and Brahms 3rd Symphony is playing in the background, it is actually NOISE not music. The sound is not being received and processed and created as a musical experience.

When the listener is not prepared or ready to have a musical experience, there IS no music. It is only unwanted sound....noise.

So the reverse is also true. I can sit and listen to a conversation in a foreign language that I do not understand and I may listen to the rhythms, melodic intonations, phrases and articulations, emphasis, etc. If I direct my musical intent toward this sound, I can listen to it as MUSIC.

The statue of the towering figures should not be burned, they are still to be admired and loved for their creation. But next to it (at the same height) must be the bust of the individual listener. BOTH are needed for music to happen.

Does this resonate with anyone or is it just a pile of crap?

I'm afraid one of my life's rules is this:

When an artist's statement says more than their art, there is a problem.

Whilst I appreciate your desire and effort to advocate on Cage's behalf, I'm afraid it doesn't resonate with me.

LitNetIsGreat

05-14-2011, 04:36 AM

Here is another way to perceive the philosophy of 4' 33" (something that is, with Cage, often just as much of a "statement" as the piece itself)...

Since roughly Beethoven (the first significant musical iconoclast to tell the aristocracy to take a hike since there were "many princes but only ONE Beethoven") the idea of music was something that emanated from an inspired genius and "received" (if one were lucky and not too stupid) by the audience.

The European tradition throughout the 19th Century and into the 20th seemed to be lead by iconic and larger-than-life FIGURES which were men (usually) of genius (and obvious mental stability issues) who "conveyed" their emotions and their personal and unique visions through music to the masses.

(We still have some vestiges of this idea today. Many indie rock stars interview poorly, staring off vacantly into space, speaking from very lofty heights and usually have fairly grandious concepts of the significance of their art. The fans usually gobble it all up and worship them as gods.)

But what Cage did is flip the entire model on its head. He is saying, in effect, "the audience is the composer." They are the ones who are assembling the various sounds into something aesthetically coherent and meaningful. Without the audience, there would be no music.

"Emotion" or "meaning" cannot be encoded into notes and rhythms. The acoustic events are triggers which the audience must process in their own way and actually respond to auditory data and create a musical experience FROM it.

If you are frantically looking for your keys because you are late and Brahms 3rd Symphony is playing in the background, it is actually NOISE not music. The sound is not being received and processed and created as a musical experience.

When the listener is not prepared or ready to have a musical experience, there IS no music. It is only unwanted sound....noise.

So the reverse is also true. I can sit and listen to a conversation in a foreign language that I do not understand and I may listen to the rhythms, melodic intonations, phrases and articulations, emphasis, etc. If I direct my musical intent toward this sound, I can listen to it as MUSIC.

The statue of the towering figures should not be burned, they are still to be admired and loved for their creation. But next to it (at the same height) must be the bust of the individual listener. BOTH are needed for music to happen.

Does this resonate with anyone or is it just a pile of crap?

I gathered that the philosophy behind it would be something like that. I've no problem with the statement, with that sort of theory or philosophy, but I just don't feel the need to pay to go and see it, I'm quite happy to read it in a text book. I also wouldn't be interested in talking up its profundity in the bar afterwards over ridiculously marked up wine.

To be fair to Cage though, I would rather listen to the 4' 33" over and over again than a lot of other stuff!

mal4mac

05-14-2011, 07:03 AM

Oh, and can any German speakers help settle something that my friend and I were wondering?

Is it pronounced "Stockhausen" as in "stock house en"

or is it "shtock house en"?

It is pronounced STeeeockh&*!!$$$%%%f=fckme&*(%sen

Musicology

05-14-2011, 08:11 AM

Antonin Dvorak
Notturno in B Major
Op. 40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DayCXpRoE_c&feature=fvwrel

TacoButt

05-14-2011, 09:11 AM

It is pronounced STeeeockh&*!!$$$%%%f=fckme&*(%sen

Similarly, "Cage" is pronounced, " "

Emil Miller

05-14-2011, 10:35 AM

Here is another way to perceive the philosophy of 4' 33" (something that is, with Cage, often just as much of a "statement" as the piece itself)...

Does this resonate with anyone or is it just a pile of crap?

A gentleman never tells.

mal4mac

05-14-2011, 11:07 AM

Similarly, "Cage" is pronounced, " "

And "Reich" is pronounced "re re re re re re just p p p p p lain b b b b onkers ich ich ich ..."

stlukesguild

05-14-2011, 12:17 PM

I agree with the notion that a work of art that doesn't "work" art piece of art without a lengthy critical treatise isn't worth it's weight as art. Cage's 4:33 has always struck me as the musical equivalent of Marcel Duchamp's Fountain (the urinal). It isn't really intended as a work of music (its not likely we're going to argue as to which orchestra offers the best performance), but rather as a criticism or sorts... a bit of provocation... It asks the question, "What is music?" which of course every clever boy in the music academy has also asked in an equally absurd manner... often while drinking with friends'

What shouldn't be ignored is that Cage was no "one hit wonder". He did compose other music as well. His impact cannot be denied when one considers the major composers who were influenced by his work. A good deal of what Cage brought to the table was a willingness to break outside the confines of the Western tradition of notation (in this he pushes music far beyond Schoenberg who sought to replace the traditional system with one of his own devising) and Western instruments. He was very much influenced by the sounds of various Asian music, including their use of micro-tonality which breaks the range from one octave to the next into far more notes than the traditional Western scale. He was also struck by the sounds of many instruments from various Asian cultures. Many of these instruments are literally hand-made so that there is a vast range of sounds as opposed to Western ideal that any good violin will have the same sound.

Personally, I don't think of Cage's musical efforts as genius... but they can be quite pleasant... sometimes quirky... often quite Impressionistic and evocative... but certainly not just one big hoax:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF1DoVdHM9M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdWS4g6Xv8k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExUosomc8Uc&feature=related

Cage's most important work is not 4:33 but quite probably the Sonatas and Interludes for Prepared Piano. In these works Cage "prepared" the piano in various ways causing the strings to sound in various unexpected ways. The resulting works often suggest Gamelan, the Javanese music that employs a great deal of hand-made percussion. Gamelan performers made a profound impact upon Debussy as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYsx5Di3bso

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUTXNxFvjDw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UhkRAH5RFU&feature=related

Now I'm not about to start placing Cage above Bach... or even Richard Strauss... but I do enjoy giving a listen every now and then. It never hurts to think "outside of the box" now and then.

By the way... while Stockhausen's Helicopter Quartet was stupid... just a bit of mental masturbation of the conceptual sort that has been the bane of the arts since they moved from the academies and the ateliers into academia. On the other hand... I quite like Stockhausen's Stimmung and Gruppen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3dDN-av7mk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dQJdiRlunk

And "Reich" is pronounced "re re re re re re just p p p p p lain b b b b onkers ich ich ich ..."

What's wrong with Reich? He composed some rather fine music. I quite love the Music for 18 Musicians (and I have this fabulous recording):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHVMVDhC-UA

His exploration of percussion can be quite intriguing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv_8UaP_QRI&feature=related

I find this especially so of his work with the marimba:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egwXKQDYcvc

I really love Desert Music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UA-iDNxKeco

Musicology

05-14-2011, 02:41 PM

Jan Sibelius
Symphony No. 5
Finale
Simon Rattle
CBSO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFHekK1TNlU&feature=related

Emil Miller

05-14-2011, 03:29 PM

Forget the sound quality and listen to the performance.What a finish.

http://youtu.be/InPRlxxOpOc

LitNetIsGreat

05-14-2011, 08:31 PM

Glen Gould and Bach, enough said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyOf_L4cNHc

And of course:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDBGnpInQWQ

mal4mac

05-15-2011, 06:56 AM

I prefer Perahia & ASMF:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-PtkSIwJbE

To me, Perahia seems to have more feeling and variation, Gould seems a bit mechanical and "driven".

What's wrong with Reich? He composed some rather fine music. I quite love the Music for 18 Musicians (and I have this fabulous recording):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHVMVDhC-UA

I quite like that, but it still sounds a bit repetitive and bonkers (in an endearing way...) Not sure I feel inspired to add it to my collection, though.

His exploration of percussion can be quite intriguing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv_8UaP_QRI&feature=related

And I totally agree with you about Nagoya Marimbas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egwXKQDYcvc

I love that - I heard it on BBC radio 3 and had to buy it, but on listening to "different trains" (and finding the title track plain bonkers...) I sought it out on a compilation album...

I don't like Desert Music much.

My favourite minimalist is probably Michael Nyman:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2yJR2oyYFA

Or maybe Philip Glass:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FniHgiyaTY

But I need to listen to more of this genre to gain a stable opinion.

Minimalist music seems to make very good film music. Maybe you can easily zone out the repetition and can concentrate on the story - but the music is still "doing its work" subminimally ('scuse pun...)

Anyway, what I've really liked listening to today:

Schumann Violin Concerto in D minor 2nd movement, Henryk Szeryng

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wuu4IyFscCc&playnext=1&list=PLE9AFC58B20CC96CD