November / Philosophical Novel Poll

[Scheherazade]

Please nominate the "philosophical" novel you would like to read in November in this thread.

Please remember that:

- Only those members with 50+ posts can nominate.

- One nomination per member.

- Only the first 10 nominations will be included in the poll.


The Book Club readings are for those who would like to read and discuss books together with other members.

If you are not able to take part or unwilling to (re)read your own nominations, please refrain from nominating book.


This poll will close on October 31st.

[NickAdams]

I was not going to participate anymore this year, but I can't pass this up. I would love to nominate Sartre, or Musil, but I'm interested in their trilogies and it would be a shame if we stopped at one.

I nominate Thus Spoke Zarathustra.

[Dark Muse]

I would be tempted to choose Atlass Shrugged, but alas I do not think it would have much hope.

So I nominate The Fall by Camus

[NickAdams]

I'm surprised there are only two nominations.

[Dark Muse]

Yes, I am surprised more people haven't yet chipped in

[Barbarous]

I nominate Thus Spoke Zarathustra.

very good choice.

I nominate Jacques the Fatalist by Diderot, something I have not read yet.

[rimbaud]

Friedrich Nietzsche- Thus Spoke Zarathustra

[Scheherazade]

Friedrich Nietzsche- Thus Spoke ZarathustraThat book has already been nominated by Nick.

Which one of the Pulitzer winners would count as a philosophical book, do you guys think? :D

*wants to hit two birds with one stone*

[mal4mac]

"Thus Spake Zarathustra is now unreadable" - Harold Bloom.

I had read & admired several of Nietzsche's "straighter" works, and Kaufmann's book on Nietzsche, so I managed to force myself through this crazy work of rhapsodic fiction. But, really, Bloom is right to cast it from his canon! Just to try and deflect the group towards something that might be readable, and something I want to read, I'll recommend:

Thomas Mann - The Magic Mountain

[Barbarous]

The Magic Mountain is a pretty long read, though it is a great novel. I just don't think it'd be appropriate for a month read, but we'll see. I may be interested in reading it again...

As for Bloom's opinions on Zarathustra, we may look over them and if one cannot, one may vote for something else.

[rimbaud]

Which one of the Pulitzer winners would count as a philosophical book, do you guys think? :D

*wants to hit two birds with one stone*


As I Lay Dying-William Faulkner?
it's on my reading list, so if that counts (and it doesn't strike me like it does, but anyway...) , i nominate that one :) since nitche is already nominated

Nietzsche- sorry spelled wrong :S (in mu defense, my native is very very different form English)

[TheFifthElement]

Nausea - Jean Paul Sartre

[armenian]

camus - the fall

[NickAdams]

"Thus Spake Zarathustra is now unreadable" - Harold Bloom.

I had read & admired several of Nietzsche's "straighter" works, and Kaufmann's book on Nietzsche, so I managed to force myself through this crazy work of rhapsodic fiction. But, really, Bloom is right to cast it from his canon!

"He" may have decided to cast it from his canon, but he underestimated the amount of powder he need for such a task and the work did not travel beyond his muzzle. You must remember that Bloom places humanism before aesthetics, although he claims otherwise, and that Bloom is irrelevant when it comes to philosophy.

In the words of Bloom:

"One mark of an originality that can win canonical status for a literary work is a strangeness that we either never altogether assimilate, or that becomes such a given that we are blinded to its idiosyncrasies."

The first possibility might hold true for this "crazy work of rhapsodic fiction". Bloom also neglects to acknowledge how "unreadable" and prized "resentment" works have helped to form his thoughts to the same degree as his canon. Just as Bloom, and Pound before him, recommend reading poetry by contrasting poets, the same holds true for literature in general.

I would be happy to read anything nominated, because I love both literature and philosophy, but if you are to dismiss a work of philosophy it would be valid if you were to suggest how it fell short in regards to that.

[Scheherazade]

Nominations so far:

1. Thus Spake Zarathustra

2. The Fall by Camus

3. Jacques the Fatalist by Diderot

4. The Magic Mountain by Thomas Mann

5. As I Lay Dying byWilliam Faulkner

6. Nausea - Jean Paul Sartre

[DanielBenoit]

To many good choices.

[armenian]

i got to say 'the fall' was camus' best and most underrated work. the narration made the way it was written unique, like it the stranger, but much different.

[Jozanny]

I will no doubt cause some groans, but I will nominate Umberto Eco's The Name of The Rose if Lit Net has not already done it in whatever the time period is for exclusion. I read it once as a student years ago, and my Medeval Lit professor chided himself for thinking the novel would do for travel reading.

I need to get to it for a critical paper I want to write anyway, and did something I rarely do with read novels, and purchased my own copy. On one level it is a historical mystery, on another it is a lesson about the anxiety of knowledge, and more.

[Scheherazade]

Would faulkner's A Fable or Reivers be considered philosophical?

I really need to nominate something from the Pulitzer list!

:D

[Jozanny]

Would faulkner's A Fable or Reivers be considered philosophical?

I really need to nominate something from the Pulitzer list!

:D

Sche, the first author I thought of when I scrolled this thread was Musil, which your Wiki link lists, but I would imagine many challenging novels could be considered philosophical. Sometimes, these genre divisions get a bit frustrating, like Eco's work, which can fit into a number of slots.

I imagine some of Faulkner's work could be defended for this category, but the Germans and the Austrians and to a lesser extent, the Italians, have a leg up on England and America in this sphere. Maybe the Africans too, come to think of it.:eek:

[NickAdams]

Would faulkner's A Fable or Reivers be considered philosophical?

I really need to nominate something from the Pulitzer list!

:D

A Fable may be considered philosophical.

[bigben]

]If I could nominate, which I can't, I might go for When the Sacred Ginmill Closes, by Lawrence Block. It seems to me -an old prof- that we hold philosophy to far apart from ordinary life. Block is good and wise, though cynical.

[optimisticnad]

I'm going to be selfish and say 'Atlash Shrugged' - I'm half-way through and really need a push!

[Dark Muse]

I'm going to be selfish and say 'Atlash Shrugged' - I'm half-way through and really need a push!

I really wanted to nominate that, but I didn't think anyone else would acutally vote for it. Now it is going to be a tough call on what I should vote for when the poll comes out.

[mal4mac]

Kaufmann, in Nietzsche PHILOSOPHER, PSYCHOLOGIST, ANTICHRIST, is less dismissive of Zarathustra than Bloom, but suggests that Zarathustra contains most of Nietzsche's ideas in veiled and symbolical form - a good summary for those who know Nietzsche thoroughly, but hard to understand correctly for those who do not.

I disagree with Kaufmann, and agree with Bloom. I think the symbolism doesn't work, it's just "too much", so it isn't a good summary.

But, anyway, it's an advanced work and perhaps not a good choice as many will not know Nietzsche thoroughly.

I also think it's just painful to read. It's off my re-read list. Of the other suggestions - I've read Nausea, that's a good read. I'd read that again.


To many good choices.

I'll withdraw Thomas Mann. It is a bit long, and I fancy reading some of the others just as much.

[Scheherazade]

Nominations so far:

1. Thus Spake Zarathustra

2. The Fall by Camus

3. Jacques the Fatalist by Diderot

4. As I Lay Dying byWilliam Faulkner

5. Nausea - Jean Paul Sartre

6. The Name of The Rose

7. Atlas Shrugged

[JBI]

A Fable may be considered philosophical.

Yes, but whether it can be considered good literature or not is another question.


Nominations so far:

1. Thus Spake Zarathustra

2. The Fall by Camus

3. Jacques the Fatalist by Diderot

4. As I Lay Dying byWilliam Faulkner

5. Nausea - Jean Paul Sartre

6. The Name of The Rose

7. Atlas Shrugged

We already read The Name of the Rose did we not?

I'd like to nominate Steppenwolf by Herman Hesse

[rimbaud]

and i don't know who to vote: Faulkner or Nietzsche :)

[Jozanny]

We already read The Name of the Rose did we not?

I'd like to nominate Steppenwolf by Herman Hesse

If we did I will change it. I will wait for Sche to rule on the matter.:nod:

[Scheherazade]

Yes, but whether it can be considered good literature or not is another question.



We already read The Name of the Rose did we not?

I'd like to nominate Steppenwolf by Herman HesseYes, thatis true; we read it last year (I was thinking it was the year before).

Nominations so far:

1. Thus Spake Zarathustra

2. The Fall by Camus

3. Jacques the Fatalist by Diderot

4. As I Lay Dying byWilliam Faulkner

5. Nausea - Jean Paul Sartre

6. Steppenwolf by Herman Hesse

7. Atlas Shrugged

[bigben]

Let's learn a real lesson and read Huckleberry Finn as adults.

[NickAdams]

I really wanted to nominate that, but I didn't think anyone else would acutally vote for it. Now it is going to be a tou.gh call on what I should vote for when the poll comes out.

I wouldn't vote for it, but I would read it if it won. I have a copy on my shelf along with On the Virtues of Selfishness. It would be a month of Rand.



I disagree with Kaufmann, and agree with Bloom. I think the symbolism doesn't work, it's just "too much", so it isn't a good summary.

I always disagree with the use of "too" in reference to a work. "Too" much or "too" little seems to be more of a criticism on the writers competence rather than the work. Who knows better than the author. Works should be taken on their own terms. Unless you are "swerving".


But, anyway, it's an advanced work and perhaps not a good choice as many will not know Nietzsche thoroughly.
Lit-net's members may suprise you.


Yes, but whether it can be considered good literature or not is another question.
:lol:
I have not read it, so I can't answer that, but I appreciate Faulkner, so even a "bad" novel is worth read, at least for me.


Let's learn a real lesson and read Huckleberry Finn as adults.

I would be up for that.

[Dark Muse]

I'd like to nominate Steppenwolf by Herman Hesse

Oh dear, this is going to be a hard vote, that makes the 3rd book that has been nominated that I really want to read

[Jozanny]

Yes, thatis true; we read it last year (I was thinking it was the year before).

Nominations so far:

1. Thus Spake Zarathustra

2. The Fall by Camus

3. Jacques the Fatalist by Diderot

4. As I Lay Dying byWilliam Faulkner

5. Nausea - Jean Paul Sartre

6. Steppenwolf by Herman Hesse

7. Atlas Shrugged

Well, I was going to pitch Foucault's Pendulum just to be a pain, but I realized I don't want to read it a fourth time even if JBI's assertion that Eco was faulting Borges offers me a new perspective on a novel I don't much like as a novel, so let me nominate Borges then, The Book of Sand.

Lit Net can give me some fake motivation, and I can buy or borrow it by November.

I would pass on a few of these selections, but maybe on some I might not and surprise the lot of you!:wave:

[rimbaud]

I'd like to nominate Steppenwolf by Herman Hesse


I am currently reading The Steppenwolf :)
so whatever we choose it would be a good one, def there are some good choices

[mal4mac]

Let's learn a real lesson and read Huckleberry Finn as adults.

That's next but one on my reading list. So why not? All novels must surely have some philosophy, implict or explicit, in them. So why not read Huck Finn with an eye to finding the "philosophy" within it?

Why don't people say which one's they've already read and would want to read again? That might help other people decide what might be worth reading. For me these are:

Nausea - Jean Paul Sartre
Steppenwolf - Herman Hesse

I've read some Camus, and can't imagine anything by him not being worth reading. I've not read "the Fall", though.

I've read most of Nietzsche, including "Zarathustra", but would not recommend reading "Zarathustra".

Has "Atlas Shrugged" ever been recommended by one serious critic? It has the reputation in the UK of being a cult book for Extreme Republican Americans. I've never known anyone who has actually read it in the UK, or has ever wanted to.

“Rand could not write her way out of a paper bag.” - Harold Bloom

Diderot and Faulkner look v. interesting...

[Desolation]

I'd like to nominate Candide by Voltaire.

[Scheherazade]

Let's learn a real lesson and read Huckleberry Finn as adults.You need to have at least 50 posts to be able to nominate, Bigben.


Nominations so far:

1. Thus Spake Zarathustra

2. The Fall by Camus

3. Jacques the Fatalist by Diderot

4. As I Lay Dying byWilliam Faulkner

5. Nausea - Jean Paul Sartre

6. Steppenwolf by Herman Hesse

7. Atlas Shrugged [/QUOTE]

8. The Book of Sand by Borges

9. Candide by Voltaire.

[NickAdams]

You need to have at least 50 posts to be able to nominate, Bigben.


Nominations so far:

1. Thus Spake Zarathustra

2. The Fall by Camus

3. Jacques the Fatalist by Diderot

4. As I Lay Dying byWilliam Faulkner

5. Nausea - Jean Paul Sartre

6. Steppenwolf by Herman Hesse

7. Atlas Shrugged [/QUOTE]

8. The Book of Sand by Borges

9. Candide by Voltaire.

I've always wanted to read Quote.:p

[Janine]

Sorry, I deleted my post...someone already pointed out that we read The Name of the Rose. a few years back. Jozanny, it's a really good book; hope you still pursue it. You can probably find the discussion thread if you run it through the 'search'.

Oh wow, I have read three of those books: Candid, Atlas Shrugged, and Steppenwolf; I can astest that they are all very good reads....at least in my opinion. I read them years ago...so to re-read one of those would be great. But the other choices interest me, also. It's a good list!

[Scheherazade]

I've always wanted to read Quote.:pI am afraid it won't be possible, Nick. "[/QUOTE]" is the end of the "QUOTE", you see.

:p

[Jozanny]

Sorry, I deleted my post...someone already pointed out that we read The Name of the Rose. a few years back. Jozanny, it's a really good book; hope you still pursue it. You can probably find the discussion thread if you run it through the 'search'.

Thank you Janine. It is actually a reread, if you missed my earlier post, for a critical essay on Lampedusa. If the book thread discussion is worth stealing when I get there, (and I am far far away from *there*) then Sche can kick my tush as needed:p when the time comes. For me to have anything worthwhile to say about Italian modernism might startle the aging scholars who do not like my resistance to Jamesian revisionism through James's homosexuality.

(Certain British academics stick in my craw, but I'll leave it there.)


PS: I don't want to say which texts I'd join in for so as not to influence the vote, but there are a few.

[mal4mac]

7. Atlash Shrugged

Is that by the Marquis de Sade? :banana:

[Scheherazade]

Sorry, I deleted my post...someone already pointed out that we read The Name of the Rose. a few years back. Jozanny, it's a really good book; hope you still pursue it. You can probably find the discussion thread if you run it through the 'search'. There is no need to do a search as all the Book Club reading are listed here. (http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3669)

:)

[Jozanny]

Ach, I went to look up my library hours, because I am in the mood, and discovered this (http://www.library.phila.gov/about/actionnow.htm), so the academic network, or buying, appears to be my only option until this is resolved, and my university is relocating its library. I wonder if anyone in this country remembers it has disabled individuals who want to live like everyone else! (stamps foot)

[Janine]

Thank you Janine. It is actually a reread, if you missed my earlier post, for a critical essay on Lampedusa. If the book thread discussion is worth stealing when I get there, (and I am far far away from *there*) then Sche can kick my tush as needed:p when the time comes. For me to have anything worthwhile to say about Italian modernism might startle the aging scholars who do not like my resistance to Jamesian revisionism through James's homosexuality.

(Certain British academics stick in my craw, but I'll leave it there.)


PS: I don't want to say which texts I'd join in for so as not to influence the vote, but there are a few.

Oh you are welcome, Jozanny. I hope you can find a few rays of enlightenment in the old discussion thread. I was in that discussion, mostly in the background. At the time I was listening to my library's books on tape and one of the tapes would not play right; just kept on screeching. I think that is when I lost my footing and went onto something else. Seems Virgil and a few other of the author's enthusiasts were deep into the philosphocial aspects of the novel. I read what they all had to say. I do think it's an interesting book and hopefully someday I will either read it or listen on a good CD version.

Sorry about your own library. I get mad at my little local library, because they close up at 5 on Friday night and are only open on Sat till 12, Sun closed all day; and I am not a morning person. I prefer to head to the library at night. But I should not really get angry with them, since they do offer so much. I just found out they have this an new series of CD's called "The Big Read"...I listened to part of one today on Tolstoy's Death of Ivan Ilyich and it was quite fascinating, finding out more details about the authors life and some analysis on the novel...now I just need to read the actual novel sometime, to make the experience complete.

Hope you won't be inconvenienced too long.

[Jozanny]

Oh you are welcome, Jozanny. I hope you can find a few rays of enlightenment in the old discussion thread. I was in that discussion, mostly in the background. At the time I was listening to my library's books on tape and one of the tapes would not play right; just kept on screeching. I think that is when I lost my footing and went onto something else. Seems Virgil and a few other of the author's enthusiasts were deep into the philosphocial aspects of the novel. I read what they all had to say. I do think it's an interesting book and hopefully someday I will either read it or listen on a good CD version.

I now recall that I dredged the Rose thread up last year, so it was careless of me to nominate it again. I will try to be more cautious in the future.


Sorry about your own library. I get mad at my little local library, because they close up at 5 on Friday night and are only open on Sat till 12, Sun closed all day; and I am not a morning person. I prefer to head to the library at night. But I should not really get angry with them, since they do offer so much. I just found out they have this an new series of CD's called "The Big Read"...I listened to part of one today on Tolstoy's Death of Ivan Ilyich and it was quite fascinating, finding out more details about the authors life and some analysis on the novel...now I just need to read the actual novel sometime, to make the experience complete.

Hope you won't be inconvenienced too long.

I am not mad at the main branch Janine; the librarians seem to get happy when I am doing interesting research, and they are nothing but courteous in accommodating me. The mayor is another matter...

[Nightshade]

Ach, I went to look up my library hours, because I am in the mood, and discovered this (http://www.library.phila.gov/about/actionnow.htm), so the academic network, or buying, appears to be my only option until this is resolved, and my university is relocating its library. I wonder if anyone in this country remembers it has disabled individuals who want to live like everyone else! (stamps foot)

OH NO!!! actually having said that that is the prediction for over 95% of public libraries in this country by 2015. So is it all the libraries that are closing or are they going to start charging you membership??

[Jozanny]

OH NO!!! actually having said that that is the prediction for over 95% of public libraries in this country by 2015. So is it all the libraries that are closing or are they going to start charging you membership??

I have privileges at Temple University Night, but if the philosophical novel is that important, I will need to find out where they are moving Paley to, since they are taking it off Broad Street, which is maybe bad and good; the building was beat when I was an active student.

The library system managed by the city is free, not subscription based, but I have donated and paid fines. They must miss earning revenue off me:lol:.

Getting the eventual nominee used is no big deal, but I want to cull my buying habits until I fix my system, which my landlord disrupted... (none of you want to keep reading about this:as-sleep:).

Depends on what wins, and I have Ayn Rand, but if she wins I will gladly mail AS to any member who needs it (ahem).

[sadparadise]

I would like to nominate Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance (An Inquiry into Values) by Robert M. Pirsig. Thanks!!

[Michael T]

I don't think you are able to nominate sadparadise (50 posts required) but it's a good idea so I'll nominate it...'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance' by Robert M Pirsig. (If that's ok Scher) :)

[Scheherazade]

I don't think you are able to nominate sadparadise (50 posts required) but it's a good idea so I'll nominate it...'Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance' by Robert M Pirsig. (If that's ok Scher)Why not? :)

Nominations so far:

1. Thus Spake Zarathustra

2. The Fall by Camus

3. Jacques the Fatalist by Diderot

4. As I Lay Dying byWilliam Faulkner

5. Nausea - Jean Paul Sartre

6. Steppenwolf by Herman Hesse

7. Atlas Shrugged

8. The Book of Sand by Borges

9. Candide by Voltaire

10. Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert M Pirsig


We have finally got the 10 nominations we needed; the voting will start on October 1st.

[NickAdams]

This is going to be tough. There are a few that I want to read, but some that I want to discuss, like Borges.

[Scheherazade]

I will probably sit this one out... The nominations all sount too complicated for me lil 'ead.

[shapeshifter_]

i wanna take part in the nominations. i will achieve the necessary criteria in no time and have a word on this subjects :D i was wondering dear admin , may i take part in the discussions over the nominated books? well, i have just started to write on the forum and i guess i will need some help with such matters :D

[Scheherazade]

The discussions are open to anyone who is interested but we take only 10 nominations for each month.

Maybe you can increase your post count by next month and join us. :)

[shapeshifter_]

looking forward to the next nominations :D

[sadparadise]

Sorry about that nomination. Didn't realize till after I posted that I was not eligible to cast a vote.Many thanks to Michael T for nominating this book and keeping it on the 10 considered books for November. Ciao!

[caspian]

Nobody wants to read Ignatius's favorite: Boethius' Consolation of Philosophy?!:lol:
Well, I've to read it alone then.:nod:

[Psycheinaboat]

I want to take part in this selection. I hope I can make the time.

[Scheherazade]

Glad to see you posting, Psyche and hope you can join us. :)

[caddy_caddy]

The Fall by camus

[Scheherazade]

You can now vote for the book you would like to read in November.

[rimbaud]

I voted Thus Spake Zarathustra, but I really liked Steppenwolf too and will like to read As I Lay Dying, so any of those tree would be great :D

[Scheherazade]

The Fall is in the lead! :D

[Dark Muse]

I know there is still a lot of time left, but yay The Fall

[Jozanny]

I know there is still a lot of time left, but yay The Fall

If I wanted to be a pain, I'd ask you why, but I'll let you off until the poll closes :D. I like Camus, and my favorite Camus novel is The Plague, and if he holds his lead I'll probably join in, though I think The Fall is the weakest of his major works (I recall some passages) but my mental cannons protest that existentialism is sooooooo yesterday:yawnb:

[Dark Muse]

hehe the answer is quite simple, I read The Stranger and Loved it, at want to read more of his works, and The Fall I just happen to have in poesision. It was also my own nomination and the books I nominate usually never win.

[sadparadise]

I was really looking forward to people reading Zen And The Art of Motorcycle maintenance, but if it doesn't make the grade The Fall sounds quite an interesting read!

[dfloyd]

You've got to be kidding. then so is The Grapes of Wrath. Black humor, but not philosophical.

[Michael T]

I purchased my copy of The Fall from a second hand bookshop today. :banana:
It's only just over a hundred pages so shouldn't take very long to read. I was hoping it would be more substantial than that because I'm travelling by rail to York and back next week via London. I guess I'll have to find another book to take along with it!
(I'm hoping the downbeat existentialism doesn't make me want to jump off the train... First class and free coffee should help!) :p

[Scheherazade]

You've got to be kidding. then so is The Grapes of Wrath. Black humor, but not philosophical.We had one month of nomination period. If you had raised your objections then, it would have been productive.
First class and free coffee should help!I often wondered who actually travelled "first class"... So, it is you!

*takes another look at Michael*

[OrphanPip]

I've only ever read Camus in the original French, I guess I'll give it a go in English.

[Michael T]

I often wondered who actually travelled "first class"... So, it is you!

*takes another look at Michael*

Sorry to disappoint you Scher. The rail tickets were supplied courtesy of my highflying sister-in-law… perks of the job I believe. I’ll be the one fighting with the waiter for custody of the coffee jug and stuffing packets of biscuits in my pockets whilst Alexandra pins him down on the floor! :p

[Amethyst2010]

I have wanted to read more from Camus after I read his play Caligula last year. Both The Stranger and The Plague are "appealing" titles, and I haven't known about The Fall until I saw this forum. However, I have no background to philosophy. Should I read more introductory work on philosophy before I try Camus, or any of the texts in this poll ?

[OrphanPip]

I have wanted to read more from Camus after I read his play Caligula last year. Both The Stranger and The Plague are "appealing" titles, and I haven't known about The Fall until I saw this forum. However, I have no background to philosophy. Should I read more introductory work on philosophy before I try Camus, or any of the texts in this poll ?

I don't think it's really necessary to study philosophy before reading Camus, he's not that inaccessible. Maybe reading up a bit on Existentialism in general may help. For Camus the most important concept is the notion of the absurd.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absurdism

[Scheherazade]

Going once...

[Scheherazade]

Going twice...