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Inderjit Sanghe
04-09-2008, 06:23 AM
Do you think that Tolkien's idea of 'evil' (or his primary definiton of it) was that it lacked the ability to think 'imaginatively'?

PeterL
04-09-2008, 11:04 AM
No, I think that the evil that he wrote about was the kind that disturbs peaceful living.

togre
04-10-2008, 09:26 AM
I'm going to have to disagree with Inderjit that evil is a lack of "imagination". I think evil can be quite imaginative (all the things Saruman came up with). They do have a blind spot, because they can not truly grasp the motivation of their "good" opponents, but I don't see that as the essence of evil.

Also, PeterL, I do see disturbing peaceful living as portrayed as evil. Tolkien was not terribly fond of industrialization and modernization, especially when it was done recklessly and turned the "simple life" up-side-down or destroyed it. I can see this especially in what happened to the Shire while Frodo, et al, were away. But I do think Tolkien's idea of evil was more comprehensive than that.

I really think to understand the way Tolkien portrayed evil in Middle Earth, you need to keep in mind his Christian background. He seemed to establish an absolute moral authority.

You don't see this explained in LotR, but I seem evil in middle earth as falling into 2 categories--the forces of evil (Evil) and people who do evil things.

I haven't made it through the entire Silmirillion, but in the early part you see the creation account of the Middle Earth. The was a powerful creator who was morally good. He created among other things a pantheon of lesser deities (also morally good). One rebelled and has been waging war on everything else ever since. There are things that he created or so thoroughly corrupted that they are absolutely and inherently evil. There is no such thing as a "good" orc. These are the orcs, trolls, Balrog, even Sauron. They are by their nature evil and do evil and wicked things with glee. Anything that is not evil wages war back on these things and is commended whenever they destroy them (it is never wrong to slay an orc).

The rest of evil is evil in and perpetrated by the "Free Peoples" of Middle Earth. Men of different races, dwarves and even elves do wicked things. They do it for the reasons people in our world do evil things today. They are selfish, or greedy or angry or bitter or misled. This would include the humans who follow Sauron, the strife between the elves and even Saruman. These are things that can "repent" as we see when Gandalf gives Saruman a chance to renounce his ways and when the hill folk attacking Helm's Deep surrender.

believin
04-10-2008, 09:31 AM
Nice observations, togre.

I also think we can add to the discussion the notion of grasping for power. It is the seduction of power that draws various people, for instance, to the Ring. When they get in touch with it, they become obsessed with it and the power it offers, making them more and more corrupt. It seems to me that this power-hungry attitude is at least part of what constitutes evil in Middle Earth.