Latin [Archive] - Literature Network Forums

Koa

12-08-2003, 10:35 AM

How can one be 'fluent' in a dead language... Like you found someone to talk in latin to at the corner of every street ;)

That said, I did 5 years of Latin at school and I don't remember much (I actually neve rmanaged to learn things like the verbs or the pronouns by heart, but since I have a good instinct I almost always got good marks). And no it wasn't optional. I think it's higly overrated. It surely helps a lot in developing logic and linguistics as they say, it surely is the basis of our culture, I'm happy to have it in my cultural background, but I can't find a reason why at school I had more hours of Latin than of English for example...

fayefaye

12-08-2003, 10:54 AM

ha-ha. You guys had to study latin-lol. Carpe diem's pretty much all I know. Why spend your life doing something like that? Memento mori.

Koa

12-08-2003, 11:01 AM

See? You know all you need...

I did have to study Latin cos I live in a country stuck in the middle-ages where the high schools of literary kind (opposed to the ones that aim at giving more practical skills) have a good amount of Latin in their schedule, whether you want it or not. And I much preferred to do Latin than Economics or such, so I chose that school and tried to enjoy it anyway. Some of the Latin literature was ok (excpet for the fact that we had to translate it...), but the grammar was mostly a pain...

Jay

12-09-2003, 11:18 AM

I've to study Latin 'cause I study at Faculty of Arts, as odd as it might sound. And I'm nowhere near to fluent, wish I were though. You'd never guess how much English words originate in Latin (well, you might have an idea...). I've been studying Latin for two years now btw. And I like it, it's just a "little" difficult... how come most guys tell me English is the second hardest-to-learn language in the world... it's kinda easy compared to Latin I think... The most dificult language to lear has to be German in my opinion, been there done that for four years, and sorry to anyone who happens to like it, major YUCK.

Koa

12-10-2003, 04:32 PM

I find it funny that English has a lot of 'double words', I mean 2 words for the same meaning, one of which has latin origin: wish/desire, heaven/paradise... There are really many of these examples.

Jay, I think English is morphologically extremely easy, but being a rather rich language, it is hard to learn it very well... On the contrary, languages like Latin or German...or Slavic languages can be a real nightmare in matters of grammar...

I don't like German either, it has hard sounds... and crazy grammar (though I find Russian grammar crazy too, but in a funnier way ;))

Jay

12-11-2003, 01:40 PM

YES, English is indeed a rich language, that's what I love that damn much about it.

Well, Russian's not difficult to learn in my opinion, been there, done that, also for four years. But that might be because Russian is a Slavic language as well, so there are things that Russian and Czech have in common.

Wilfred

12-11-2003, 02:24 PM

English and Latin are the best two languages.

Jay

12-11-2003, 02:44 PM

When I'm not that "green" in Latin, I'm most likely to agree with you there Wilfred.

IWilKikU

12-12-2003, 11:13 PM

Latin is great! I love reading Latin and trying to translate loosely into english. As far as grammer, verb congication, pronouns and the such, I'm totally lost, but I like Latin vocab. Foolonthehill, was your Latin sentence somthing like 'I know six random words'?

For a funny bit about Latin check out Monty Python's Life of Brian. Brian writes 'Romans go home' on a wall in Jerusalam, and is caught by a centurion who corrects his grammar at knifepoint and makes him write it 100 times. hehe

Koa

12-13-2003, 07:22 AM

Originally posted by Jay

Well, Russian's not difficult to learn in my opinion, been there, done that, also for four years. But that might be because Russian is a Slavic language as well, so there are things that Russian and Czech have in common.

:rolleyes: Erase that 'might', Jay... It's definitely like that! Slavic languages are nightmares to speakers of Romance languages... you can't even imagine how much we struggle.... maybe as much as how you struggle with Latin, which wasn't easy to me because of the awful lot of boring things to learn by heart, but surely closer to my native language...

IWilKikU, I think the foolonthehill's sentence means that davus is angry because sextus is uhmm whipping (not sure this is the word) a servant. This is not based on my memories of Latin, but on the similarity to Italian :D And it can be totally wrong :D

Jay

12-13-2003, 10:14 AM

lol Koa, :D, your version seems more likely to me... but just a guess, servus is a very widely used word in Latin textbooks (at least in the Czech-Latin ones). Well, I don't have much probs with English, just lots of probs with Latin declinations, re the Slavic vs German (hope it works in English as well...) languages.

In my opinion Italian is the most close language to Latin than any other, so I think your guess should be right if you base the translation on the resemblance with Italian...

Koa

12-13-2003, 05:47 PM

Well Italian is the language that comes most directly from Latin, so to say... But that kind of resemblances are very dangerous, I remember there were words I always had to check cos I was sure they didn't mean what I thought they meant, but I didn't remember the correct meaning...

Jay

12-13-2003, 11:11 PM

Same with Slavic languages, in one language it means something, in the other it looks and souns almost the same OR the same, but has a very different meaning

fayefaye

12-14-2003, 05:00 AM

Mandarin's nuts. there are four different 'sounds' for each word, and if it's not your first language-like if you spoke english first, then it's really hard to differentiate between them, and each thing has a different meaning. It's really bad if you go to China because they won't understand you, unless they speak a bit of English, in which case you're better off speaking english anyway. I think I've offended quite a few people..... :)

IWilKikU

12-14-2003, 08:08 AM

hmm, I've never had Mandarin nuts. Only Mandarin oranges, yum!

Jay

12-14-2003, 09:01 AM

LOL Kik :D:D:D

subterranean

12-15-2003, 12:31 AM

Deus ex machina

Thanks to Biology, I know there is a language called Latin :)
(call me a simpleton )

azmuse

12-15-2003, 02:05 AM

and thanks to anatomy, some of my favorite words are medial et lateral malleoli, et cetera...
i Love the rich buttery sounds of latin, but decided to take espanol this semester instead, as it's often necessary for communication with patients.

imthefoolonthehill

12-19-2003, 01:32 AM

IWilKikU... No... I didn't say, "I know six random words"

I hope I said, Davus (a male name) is pissed at Sextus (another male name) because the boy is beating the slave.

It comes from a crazy latin book..... Sextus is a boy in a rich family, and Davus is a slave in that family.... anyways.... we had a great amount of Sophomoric (sp?) jokes about Sextus.

Sextus molestus

heh...

It was a year ago... so it is vague... but Molestus is annoying or something like that... but it looks and sounds like Molest us. Ah... ya gotta love high school.

IWilKikU

12-19-2003, 02:18 PM

You didn't have to explain the molestus joke to me. Im only 3 years removed from highschool, but my sense of humor is still right around the same level. Remember, I was the guy who liked "Dude, Where's my Car?"

Azoic

12-19-2003, 05:13 PM

reminds me of Biggus Dickus. Ahhh Monty Python, for those of us who never get past high school humor.

Dyrwen

12-19-2003, 10:50 PM

I took 2 years of it in High school, since 2 years of a foreign language is required.

Ibi sunt non deum.

One of the few phrases I remember.

Koa

12-21-2003, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by Dyrwen
[B]I took 2 years of it in High school, since 2 years of a foreign language is required.

And they call Latin a foreign language? :rolleyes: *sighs*

Jay

12-21-2003, 10:54 PM

well Koa, it can be considered a foreign language... as it's not our native one...

subterranean

12-21-2003, 11:05 PM

I read this sentence in a novel, perhaps someone could tell me what's the meaning of it:
"Gloria Patri, et Filio, et Spiritui Sancto. Sicut erat in principio, et munct, et semper et in saeculorum. Amen"

I'm guessing that this has something to do with Catholic church or the teaching. I want to know the meaning

Jay

12-21-2003, 11:08 PM

"in the name of Father, Son and the Saint Spitit" is the first part, the next I dunno... sowwie ;)

subterranean

12-21-2003, 11:13 PM

Yea, i figured that the first part was that, no probs Jay, thanks! :)

azmuse

12-22-2003, 02:00 AM

whatever it is, it sounds SUBLIME... ...

fayefaye

12-22-2003, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by imthefoolonthehill
It comes from a crazy latin book..... Sextus is a boy in a rich family, and Davus is a slave in that family.... anyways.... we had a great amount of Sophomoric (sp?) jokes about Sextus.

Sextus molestus

heh...

It was a year ago... so it is vague... but Molestus is annoying or something like that... but it looks and sounds like Molest us. Ah... ya gotta love high school.

LOL. :) And no, you really have to HATE high school. biggus dickus is pretty funny too, but I'm not really a Monty Python fan at all.... *awaiting onslaught from Python fans*

Koa

12-22-2003, 09:05 AM

Originally posted by subterranean
[B]I read this sentence in a novel, perhaps someone could tell me what's the meaning of it:
"Gloria Patri, et Filio, et Spiritui Sancto. Sicut erat in principio, et munct, et semper et in saeculorum. Amen"

Ok about the Father Son etc
I think the rest is literally " this was at the beginning, and ??? and always and in the centuries"

If you really want I'll take out my dictionary and check that 'munct', which doesn't actually resemble to any grammatical form I know... but then, what do I know? Hey could it be 'nunc', which means 'now' ??? I'm sure the version we use nowadays says 'now'.
Until the 60s, the church mass was in Latin here in Italy.

Note on my translation: I remember that 'sicut' means 'like this, in this way'. The rest is basically the same as in Italian :D :D :D : 'in principio' is a normal Italian expression still nowadays :). The final part would read 'e sempre e nei secoli' (we actually say 'nei secoli dei secoli' in the church rituals). And there you see how Latin thankfully lost the cases: not saeculorum but secoli.
End of the lesson of philology.

IWilKikU

12-22-2003, 01:24 PM

but I'm not really a Monty Python fan at all.... *awaiting onslaught from Python fans* [/B]

OH NO YOU DIDN'T!!!! I had so much respect for you five minutes ago!

subterranean

12-23-2003, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by Koa
Ok about the Father Son etc
I think the rest is literally " this was at the beginning, and ??? and always and in the centuries"

If you really want I'll take out my dictionary and check that 'munct', which doesn't actually resemble to any grammatical form I know... but then, what do I know? Hey could it be 'nunc', which means 'now' ??? I'm sure the version we use nowadays says 'now'.
Until the 60s, the church mass was in Latin here in Italy.

Note on my translation: I remember that 'sicut' means 'like this, in this way'. The rest is basically the same as in Italian :D :D :D : 'in principio' is a normal Italian expression still nowadays :). The final part would read 'e sempre e nei secoli' (we actually say 'nei secoli dei secoli' in the church rituals). And there you see how Latin thankfully lost the cases: not saeculorum but secoli.
End of the lesson of philology.

Thank's Koa ;)

imthefoolonthehill

12-24-2003, 01:59 AM

It is very difficult to beat monty python and their comical genious.

question: is monty python a person or the group of people?

fayefaye

12-24-2003, 06:05 AM

Group, I think... I've only seen Life of Brien.

fayefaye

12-24-2003, 06:12 AM

Ok, random quote back on topic:
'Why learn latin? No-one speaks the language. Sometimes I see some Latin in the newspapers, but thank God, I shall never be a journalist'
-Rimbaud, Le Soleil Etait Encore Chaud.... I got a book of his thingies for Christmas. :D

AbdoRinbo

12-24-2003, 06:19 AM

Heh, ironically, he won quite a few awards in school for translating poems from Latin into French.

IWilKikU

12-25-2003, 04:47 AM

Monty Python consists of five british guys and one American. John Cleese, Eric Idle, Terry Gilliam, Michael Palin, Graham Chapman, and the American was Terry Jones. They got together and did "Monty Pythons' flying circus". Notice that the ' is behind the "s", signifying pythons, plural. Each of them refered to themselves individually as "a python."

fayefaye

12-26-2003, 12:34 AM

<hijacking thread to discuss Rimbaud with Abdo>
he really seems like one intrigueing guy, hey? A teenage, bisexual, drug using, heathen genius with a male partner ten years older than him and MARRIED. fascinating ****. I would love to just read about his life, let alone his poetry.

Koa

12-26-2003, 09:45 AM

Originally posted by fayefaye
<hijacking thread to discuss Rimbaud with Abdo>
he really seems like one intrigueing guy, hey? A teenage, bisexual, drug using, heathen genius with a male partner ten years older than him and MARRIED. fascinating ****. I would love to just read about his life, let alone his poetry.

That's kind of a problem to me: I'm sure I'd read all his works voraciously just because his personal life is so interesting, and I don't find it right to be fascinated of someone's work just because of how transgressive (???) his life was... This is why I'm not much into Rimbaud, I just read something not too deeply...I know I'd be influenced in thinking it's cool just because he had a cool life... But I guess that's just me.

AbdoRinbo

12-26-2003, 05:46 PM

You'd rather he lived a boring life like T. S. Eliot? You want verbal masturbation?

Here's Rimbaud's contribution to verbal masturbation: He wrote the first free-verse poetry. 'Une Saison en Enfer' appeared fifteen years before Mallarmé's 'Un Coup de Dés' (which is usually credited for it). But the thing I like about Rimbaud's poetry more than anything is that it doesn't come off as 'scholarly' or 'bookish', though, he was very well-read in most areas. Plus, he had a wicked sense of humor, in his life and his art. He let his actions inspire his poetry, which is one of those historic anamolies in [*poetry].

What's even more, he quit after five years and fled to Africa.

Edited for OOPSYYYYY.

IWilKikU

12-26-2003, 08:49 PM

<hijacking this thread to sing christmas carols to myself>

Jingle bells
Jingle bells
Jingle all the way

Oh what fun
It is to ride
In a one horse open slay
HAY!

Oh holy night
The stars are brightly
SHIIIIIIIIINING

It is the night
Of our dear saviors
Birth

We three kings of Orient are
Bearing gifts, we travel afar
Westward Leading
Still proceeding
la la la la la la star

Ok thats getting old now.
done

fayefaye

12-27-2003, 03:56 AM

LOL@kik. Delightful. you're a great singer.

I can't believe Rimbaud quit writing at 19. I mean, what a waste. I probably am inclined to think it's cool just because he had such an interesting life, but at the same time, I also feel inclined to read into it in more depth because of that. yeah, I like the way he writes without any pretension too. Is it just me, or do most people in his life come across as absolute ****s?