Do Women Have Less Self-Esteem Than Men?

[apples of gold]

I was reading my book while waiting for an appointment in the cafeteria of the teaching hospital in my city, the other day.

I was within earshot of a middle aged couple who were having their lunch and engaged in a very personal, although gentle discussion. I was able to glance at their name tags. They were both doctors with the same last name. I presume they were married. The man said to the woman “I’m not surprised you did that. You always do things like that. It’s your low self esteem.” The woman who seemed flustered, changed the subject.

I’ve heard male friends and strangers often make similar statements to or about women.

I hear women make these kinds of statements although seldom directly to other women. I hear them validate their own self esteem within the context of a discussion about other women’s behavior. I wonder if they haven’t also been told by men/society that they have low self esteem, and just what type of behavior causes men/women/society to believe this.

Do women have less self-esteem than men?

Any fiction or non-fiction references are welcome along with your comments.

[Brigitte]

This is a difficult question because I can think of so many cases of one or the other. And I don't want to make a general statement, and get attacked over it. I mean there are feminists, lesbians, shy girls, emo kids, etc. Hah, okay I'm an "emo kid" so I'd have to say some days I have super high self-esteem and other days I'm depressed.

As for men, they might have low self-esteem, but maybe about different issues?

Aiiish, it's all so circumstantial. Maybe someone else will have a much more defined answer. I'm iffy about committing to a single idea because I just don't know for sure.

[Pensive]

If anyone means to say that all women have lower self-esteem than men, I really really disagree with that! But if he means to ask about this generally, then I don't know.

[apples of gold]

I'd be interested in hearing anyone's response, whether it be a general opinion or the sharing of personal experience.

There must be fiction that is centered on or evokes the issue.

There may even be reports on the scientific study of the issue.

Although I set the question up in the form of a debate topic, there is no forum for it and had to put it in the chat section. We don't have to follow a debate format and there are no right or wrong answers. The sharing of personal experiences may be a good place to start the discussion.

Here's an interesting article of the subject entitled: Taking Advantage
Me, Myself and I: Self-Esteem and Advertising Part One of a Three Part Series http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~taflinge/esteem.html

[motherhubbard]

This is a big subject that much can be said about. I think that women have been conditioned to doubt themselves more. There are any number of examples of this. Traditional roles of men and women and attitudes have prolonged this. But here is one way of knowing who has a greater self-esteem problem: how much money do women spend on beauty products, weight loss products, fashionable cloths, plastic surgery and so on? How much do men spend? In recent years there has been a push to inflect the same self-esteem problems on men so that they can spend more money on makeup and wrinkle cream. But I still thank that as a whole, women have lower self-esteem, or are at least at a greater risk of a poor self image.

[apples of gold]

Those are good points.

I go back to the conversation I heard between the husband and wife who appeared to be telling him, with a mild dose of concern, about the day’s events. His comments caused her to stop in her tracks with a noticeable increase in frustration. I chuckle, wondering if she went out after that and bought herself some new face cream and if she would have to conceal the purchase from her husband.

If this is the conditioning you talked about, how much of this do we see in families and if females are more likely to be on the receiving end, perhaps getting it from both parents or either gender of sibling, as a control device. We can get a good idea in modern times, but in traditional society, before the fifties, we saw men’s roles typically as more controlling of women, being more content in pleasing them without nearly so much vain quest to improve. There now appears to be less control of women in the family and more control of them by society through advertising. What if anything has changed? Is it tied to a desire to nurture and please men and a lower self-esteem just goes along with that?

[Brigitte]

Well, since you mentioned the 50s... during those times, "sexy" women were those with the classic pinup body shape (Marilyn Monroe). These days, "sexy" is ... like 1/3 the size of the ideal 50s body. So I'd say women have a tougher job reaching these ideal body sizes. So there's definitely more pressure and with that can come lower self-esteem. Whereas, with men I don't think there's an "ideal body type" aside from being fit. Expectations haven't changed too much, other than in fashion. Men can easily buy today's fashion, but women have to fit in today's fashion just to buy it.

The environment can definitely cause for lower self-esteem. I mean, some families aren't so nice (abuse) and that can affect anyone's self esteem, male or female.

[Turk]

What if i say it's a supremacy of women, they are more altruist and generous than men?

[Shalot]

What if i say it's a supremacy of women, they are more altruist and generous than men?

I would say that 1) you are a woman disguised as a man or 2) you are a man trying to get on a woman's good side.

Actually, just ignore me. It's Saturday night and I generally don't have anything worthwhile to contribute on a Sat night.

[Turk]

Who says being so self-esteem is a good thing. I am just showing you good side of that, you are altruist and generous respectable women.

[apples of gold]

I would say that 1) you are a woman disguised as a man or 2) you are a man trying to get on a woman's good side.

Actually, just ignore me. It's Saturday night and I generally don't have anything worthwhile to contribute on a Sat night.

Shalot you crack me up!!

Turk you've got on my good side with that one, for the next say, 3 posts of yours. Way to go.

[papayahed]

hmm interesting, this ties into, slightly, into a point brought up in another thread about the sexyness of women.

I remember in high school a study that was done about seperating boys and girls in schools. The study said that girls did better without boys around. (The study was touted in my school since it was all girls) Anywho, when hearing about the study it reminded me vivdly of grade school, I can clearly remember in one class all the boys sat in the front of the class and the girls in the back. Seating was assigned by the teacher.

At the time we didn't think about it but looking back, and I don't think is was a concsious decision on the teacthers part, the message being sent was that the boys were more important.

Little things such as that can have an impact on self esteem.

[Mortis Anarchy]

hmm interesting, this ties into, slightly, into a point brought up in another thread about the sexyness of women.

I remember in high school a study that was done about seperating boys and girls in schools. The study said that girls did better without boys around. (The study was touted in my school since it was all girls) Anywho, when hearing about the study it reminded me vivdly of grade school, I can clearly remember in one class all the boys sat in the front of the class and the girls in the back. Seating was assigned by the teacher.

At the time we didn't think about it but looking back, and I don't think is was a concsious decision on the teacthers part, the message being sent was that the boys were more important.

Little things such as that can have an impact on self esteem.

That study only showed that in mathmatics...but boys, in an english class did better with no girls. They are doing that at my school in some classes.

[Virgil]

Those are good points.

I go back to the conversation I heard between the husband and wife who appeared to be telling him, with a mild dose of concern, about the day’s events. His comments caused her to stop in her tracks with a noticeable increase in frustration. I chuckle, wondering if she went out after that and bought herself some new face cream and if she would have to conceal the purchase from her husband.

If this is the conditioning you talked about, how much of this do we see in families and if females are more likely to be on the receiving end, perhaps getting it from both parents or either gender of sibling, as a control device. We can get a good idea in modern times, but in traditional society, before the fifties, we saw men’s roles typically as more controlling of women, being more content in pleasing them without nearly so much vain quest to improve. There now appears to be less control of women in the family and more control of them by society through advertising. What if anything has changed? Is it tied to a desire to nurture and please men and a lower self-esteem just goes along with that?

Look I agree that women in general probably have lower self esteem than men, and I'm sure that some of it comes through experience. But I think some of it is innate as well. Boys are just more active and cocky and exertive than girls and I think this is part of how self esteem is formed. But I do sympathize with you ladies. There are interesting studies of girls who go to all girls schools where they tend to become more assertive than girls who don't. Being away from and not having to compete with hyperactive boys seems to help their self esteem.

edit: Just saw Papaya's post about separating boys and girls. She seems to agree with me.

[Mortis Anarchy]

Look I agree that women in general probably have lower self esteem than men, and I'm sure that some of it comes through experience. But I think some of it is innate as well. Boys are just more active and cocky and exertive than girls and I think this is part of how self esteem is formed. But I do sympathize with you ladies. There are interesting studies of girls who go to all girls schools where they tend to become more assertive than girls who don't. Being away from and not having to compete with hyperactive boys seems to help their self esteem.

edit: Just saw Papaya's post about separating boys and girls. She seems to agree with me.

I agree with you, but even then, there are quite a few girls who are just as cocky and exertive...but I think everyone is different. I'm more cocky and crazy and active then most of my male friends as well as female, but I think its because I'm comfortable with them. But even when I first meet people, I tend to be a little bit not cocky but with more confidence and shyness as well.

I think I would get bored if there were no guys in my classes...some of you boys out there are pretty entertaining! Girls also!

Girl Power