Satan is nothing more than a notion. If we believe that there is God, there must be something evil as well. We must not forget that the God has only one name, while Satan has thousands and that's what makes him non-defining. You can talk to God but you can only listen to Satan.
Stop asking where is God and keep asking where the hell is human!
God has more than one name.
"A hidden connection is stronger than an obvious one."
Heraclitus
I would like you to realize that the NIV, KJV, and the other names of Bibles are only names for different translations of the Bible. The Old Testament was originally written in Hebrew, and the New Testament in Greek. Most people in the world do not understand Hebrew or Greek well enough to read the original Bible, therefore it has been translated. It has been translated many times because we are trying to translate it as best as possible, of course man is not perfect, therefore no translation will be perfect. By Turah(not an english word) you must mean Torah, the Pentuach, the Law as written mainly by Moses. You complain of the sinfulness of man as shown in the Old Testament. Man is sinful, even the great heroes of the Bible, David, who was a man after God's own heart was not perfect. The Bible shows that everyone is sinful(except Christ).Originally Posted by Sword&Shield
By "vangele"(which is not an english word) you must mean Gospel(which means in Greek "good news"). I do not know what you mean by Gospel of Jesus, I do not know of its' existence. All the books in the modern Bible were inspired and created by God, yet written down by men.
I do not understand what you mean by 4 fathers. Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary and conceived by the Holy Spirit. He was true man so that he was under the law and death, and true God so that His blood had unlimited power to pay for the sins of all people. He laid away the use of some of His divine powers, He did not lay them away, only the use of them. As a man, He was weak and humanly.
As for Ezekiel 23, it seems that this chapter is really a metaphor. It is God describing the two halves of Israel. They have turned away from Him. See also chapter 16.
I may not be understanding you correctly, but you say that the Koran agrees with the teachings of Moses and Jesus, but teaches the opposite of the Bible. If the Bible is the most accurate historical book ever, as well as the most amazing, you are saying that the Koran is not historically accurate.
This just reminded me that Christmas is not celebrated on a pagan holiday. Sometime in the early Church, they decided to celebrate the Birth of Christ at about that time, probably to corespond with Easter. Several years later, the pagans made up a holiday to celebrate on that day rather than Christmas. I might also add here that, though Norway was converted to Christianity by Olav den Heilage, and has been predominantly Christian until recently, most people, at least those in the country, believe in the existence of the "Underjordiske", the trolls and their kin.
I know that English is not your first language Sword and Shield, and I posted in haste and frustration at my lack of understanding. I was not trying to be insulting and lay awake regretting my words. I do stumble in many ways. I only meant it would be nice if you could be a little more careful, for it seems you know the words and their meanings. Even I often mispell words, especially while typing, though I quickly correct my errors. I hope you can forgive me for my hastiness. Thank you again to Pen for reminding me again of the truth. You are such a light to me in these threads.
Dont know why always you say its bible translations matter.
Orthodox bible conatin 151 psalms.
Orthodox and Catholic conatin 7 books that Protestant doesnt have. They also have Daniel 13 and 14 while protestant bible doesnt have.
Books added and canceled. Still translations? which one is true? how to know?
There are verses added anc canceled:
KJ John 5:7 the only verses that contain trinity so clear was canceled from nowadays bibles, still translaition?
KJ John 3:16 the word begotten exist, now adays we dont find it, its important word but so bad to describe God with. Still translation?
NIV doesnt have Acts 8:37 it jump directly from 36 to 38 and they took 37 from the context and put it down in the page, next time will vanish. Still translation?
NIV: Ezekiel 23:20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses. (words of God? forget its metaphore or not, does God say such words? what spiritual you find in these words, try to read it infront your little doughter or sister).
KJV the word genitals vanished we find the word flesh.
NLV Ezekiel 23:20 She lusted after lovers whose attentions were gross and bestial. ( here the words donkey and horses are vanished, flesh and genitals are vanished. From describing genitals to describing attentions. Is it hard to translate the word horse or donkey from greek? beside if its metaphore why they are trying to change words by passing of time? do they have permission from God to change his words or UPDATE, or ADD CANCEL?).
Not only these added cancel verses exist thier are alot other but only to give you an idea
About the historical facts you can go back to the thread that talk about the historical errors in bible and you can find what the PRIESTS say about thier own bible. And believe me alot of historical errors can be found in the bible and i gave example in the thread is Jesus God and no one responded, a big clear contraddiction between 2 stories in the bible.
The Holy Quran show the real image about prophets peace be upon them and thier stories.
First thing Solmon didnt pray to stones according Holy Quran it honor him as should.
David didnt make adultery with wife of his soldier and didnt send him to fight so he die and he tae his wife. (so dirty story about a prophet, and prophets dont do such thing). and then was born one of fathers of Jesus pbuh (we believe that all prophets came from a pure generation begining from Adam pbuh, no adultery was made in family tree of a prophet). And David didnt betrade or dance or made silly things, he was pure man as all prophets are.
Lot (prophet of Sodum) wasnt drunk (prophets according islam didnt drink any alcohol) and didnt make love with his own doughters (incest). ( so bad language about a prophet).
Jacob didnt fight with God and he win God by putting him on ground. (a man believing in God doesnt say such thing about the almighty unique one God).
Judah (the son of Jacob, He is not prophet but we believe that sons of prophets didnt do such thing) didnt sleep with wife of his son and then was born one of fathers of Jesus pbuh.
Abraham didnt say to his son a lie when he wanted to kill him according Turah. According Holy Quran he said to him so clearly about what God ordered him and the pure son responded with all faith do what you were ordered to do. No bad intention Abraham had, and his son was a pure prophet also.
Jesus didnt drink alcohol or was beaten, his mother didnt make adultery, she is choosen between all women.
If you mean these historical errors i say yes they contraddict with Turah, becuase Holy Quran showed the real image, the true story, the pure honest clear prophets, no drunk prophets or liers or incest makers in Holy Quran, and you choose the one that is better. As Allah said all prophets are equal, if we believe one is pure then all are pure, also the prophets that thier names werent mentioned in Holy Quran. They all were sent to humanity to show them the true way, and all were protected from Allah. Peace be upon them all.
It angers me that I can not express arguements that I wish because I do not wish to offend anyone and that I cannot post them here becuase they will be deleted for being off topic though others are constantly off topic. I wish to be allowed to defend my faith against these rediculous arguements.
Last edited by rufioag; 05-17-2006 at 01:29 AM.
No one in the world can alter truth. All we can do is seek it and live it.
Douay Rhiems might beg to differ as well."I would like you to realize that the NIV, KJV, and the other names of Bibles are only names for different translations of the Bible."
Just as God is the only absolute good in the universe, so is Satan (the angel Lucifer) the only absolute evil. No other being can ever aspire to such heights or depths. Even those who fought with Lucifer against God only guard the gates of Dis.
"Extremem hun, Arethusa, mihi concede laborem"
I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman where the Self Help section was, she said if she told me it would defeat the purpose.
ı completely agree with Shield and Sword.All religion are sent by God (christian,jewihs,islam..) and during the history there occured some corruptıons ın these religion except islam .bec islam ıs lastly sent by Allah and ıt is all completed and not changed by humankind.and whıle we read thıs .we can see all the prophets that come to earth from Abraham to Jesus ...Lut to Muhammed(peace be upon them) and theır life story..so no need to read many bıble to find truth but we can see all truth ın one holy book _Quran_ isnt it sounds so easy?
Don't deprive of sb's hope,it may be the last thing he owns.
Muslims often are very quick to tell others that God allowed the Bible to be corrupted. What they are implying is that the Qur’an today is the reliable word of God while the Bible is not. The Bible has many minor textual variants, but the evidence of any doctrinal changes in negligible. The Qur’an has more evidence of corruption in light of Ubai, abrogated verses, ‘Uthman, and other Qur’anic problems. However, the most drastic Qur’anic doctrinal variation, brought up by Muslims themselves, is "the daughters of Allah".
Who are these daughters of Allah? are they Goddesses?
The Sura (Sura 53) verses 19-20 say, "Have ye seen Lat, and ‘Uzza, And another, the third (goddess), Manat?"
The Koran was revealed to Muhammad and he transmitted it to his following who compiled it during the decades after his death. Varied compilations of fragments of the recital were created in the mid 650s. There were multiple compilations at the time, each using different material based on the recitations of different caliphs. This variation caused concern for Muslim scholars at the time. 'We thus face serious contradictions in our source material regarding two issues: who collected the Koran, and what it was collected from. In historical terms, the differences between the rival accounts are not trivial'. In the tenth century there were between 7 and 14 major different versions of the Koran available.
Is this truth?
Also, last time I checked, Prophets are not without sin are they? We are all born sinful in nature and fall short of the glory of God. Did Satan not place words in his mouth? Is that not sinful? If a friend tempts you into stealing, do you not sin as well for the act?
Mohammed was sinful
(Surah 47:19)
Last edited by rufioag; 05-17-2006 at 11:39 AM.
No one in the world can alter truth. All we can do is seek it and live it.
Please note that this thread is dedicated to the discussion of concept of Satan, not to the superiority of various religious texts.
Any off topic posts are likely to be deleted/edited.
Last edited by Scheherazade; 06-24-2006 at 08:05 AM.
~
"It is not that I am mad; it is only that my head is different from yours.”
~
why my post was canceled, it was an answer to what a user posted above. You could at least leave it and then we return to the subject. These claims must be cleared.
Rufioag your post above was answered. Will post the answer of your post above in the thread you opened before which is: Question about islam. Every matter will be responded.
The answeris here :
http://www.online-literature.com/for...t=17225&page=2
Last edited by Shield&Sword; 05-18-2006 at 06:24 AM.
well, i guess if u look at other p.o.v as rediculous ,then do not reply!
lol half of my reply is in the Quote LOL
rufio will kill me now LOL
Satan is just an equal and opposite reaction to God. Sound familiar to anyone?
Name? Dissent is my name, and it is I who plagues the realm of tranquility in this tangible world which we call life. My identity is that which articulates the nature of my personality. Therefore you may call me dissent. Ahhh the amusement of the intellectually blind! The splendor of those who speak but know not! How the folly of human views have perverted the truth, such a melancholy tale is this! No, there is nothing left now. Merely the remnants of dark clarity.
I meant 4 fathers to say names mentioned in Mathew that describe tree of Jesus from Joseph untle Abraham. You will find names of 4 women, if you go back to bible you will find that these women made adultery with men mentioned near them, for example Tamar made adultery with Judah (incest), and you will find David made adultery with woman mentioned near his name. Hope you got idea.
I know Jesus pbuh was born from Marry pbuh without husbend but i dont know why the tree begin from Joseph passing to his fathers untle Abraham and Marry pbuh no mention to her. the chain mentioned in Luke also begin from Joseph but we see all names are different, only name of Joseph is mentioned, contraddiction? and what Joseph has to do with Jesus pbuh, and if you notice the phrase written in Luke which say between () "as was supposed", interesting phrase.
Thats what i meant by Fathers of Jesus, and there no mention of God. Is Joseph more important than God to be mentioned?
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