*Very poor. Wouldn't recommend it
**Didn't like it much
***Average
****It is a good read
*****Like it very much. would strongly recommend it.
A quote from Mr. Antolini to Holden:
"Many, many men have been just as troubled morally and spiritually as you are right now. Happily, some of them have kept records of their troubles. You'll learn from them - if you want to."
Anyone care to list a few books that would fit this description?
okokok
Last edited by ClickForth; 10-31-2008 at 05:28 PM.
Salinger's own Franny and Zooey
Faulkner - "The Sound and the Fury" (particularly Quentin's Section)
and
Shakespeare - "Hamlet"
One could easily say that the entire play (especially the title character) puts forth thousands of questions and offers very little in terms of conviction or certainty.
Does the book have to be written in first person and do you want examples where the character is troubled from the start and goes on a journey to sort themselves out or would you accept examples where everything seems fine at the beginning but then something happens to make the character question their morals?
ie Heart of Darkness is a great example of a character (Marlow) who has the 'mist lifted from his eyes'. And in recounting his story does the same to the narrator BUT don't know if this is what you mean as at the beginning both Marlow and the narrator were feeling pretty good about the world.
I have to answer some analytical questions for The Catcher in the Rye and I'm having a lot of trouble. If anyone has some answers, I would really appreciate it.
>What is the meaning behind Holden's obsession with everything staying the same?
>Holden is immature in many ways. Make an argument for why he acts so immaturely.
>The theme of mental instability is prevalent in the novel. Offer an argument to prove this theme.
>How is Phoebe a symbol of childhood?
Holden wants everything to stay the same because he is anxious about both sex and death. In a sense, he wants to stop time to preserve his youth, warding off death and the "maturity" that accompanies sexuality. You can see examples of these anxieties throughout the novel: his retelling of his little brother's death, how angry he gets about Stradlader trying to give his friend (I can't remember her name) "the time," his desire to be a "catcher in the rye." Holden's desire to stop time is a coping mechanism against his fears.Originally Posted by bassistchick
Again, he acts immaturely in an effort to delay adulthood. By avoiding responsibility--avoiding his homework, getting kicked out of schools, going to New York--he's trying avoid sexuality and death. As for the whole "phony" thing, Holden insults other people's "fakeness" because he's fake himself. Ever hear the term "listen to someone's criticisms to learn their shortcomings?" Well, that's what Holden is doing; he's projecting his shortcomings on other people. Remember when he *****es about Ackley blocking his light? He does the same thing later to Stradlader. And remember all the lies he tells to the woman on the train? Holden is the "phoniest" guy in the novel.>Holden is immature in many ways. Make an argument for why he acts so immaturely.
Read the last ten pages of the novel. There is narrative proof Holden is telling his story to someone in a mental institution. Also see the anxieties and projection I mentioned above.>The theme of mental instability is prevalent in the novel. Offer an argument to prove this theme.
Sorry, I'm won't be nearly as helpful for this one, but I'll give it a crack. Holden sees Phoebe as a symbol for childhood because she's just that, a child. She's completely sexually unaware, and she's far from death. Holden admiration for her stems from his anxiety. Also, if I remember right, there's a scene near the end of the novel where Phoebe riders a carnival carousel, a sort of symbol for perpetual youth. I don't remember that much about Phoebe. Sorry.>How is Phoebe a symbol of childhood?
Hope my answers are helpful and that they point you in the right direction. Best of luck!
Witty quotation here! Witty quotation here!
dont you think that he hates becoming an adult just because in the world of grown-ups many thanks are fake, phoney? remember his "even if you DID go around saving guys' livesand all, how would you know if you did it because you really wanted to save guys' lives, or because you did it because what you really wanted to do was be a terrific lawyer, with everybody slapping you on the back and congratulating you in court when the goddam trial was over, the reporters and everybody, the way it is in the dirty movies? How would you know you weren't being phony? the trouble is, you wouldn't."
(sorry for a long quotation)
i think he criticise everyone because he doesnt want to be like the rest of people he knows. and he gets very upset if a person he thought not a phoney turned out to be fake like the others.
perhaps that;s why he couldnt bring himself to call Jane.
Sylvia Plath's The Bell Jar. Excellent book.
Generation X by Douglas Coupland. Also really good.
"Memory believes before knowing remembers."
--Faulkner
How would you rate Salinger's The Catcher in the Rye?
Has anyone read The Catcher in the Rye Please rate Salinger's novel.
..
eyemaker
"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function. One should, for example, be able to see that things are hopeless and yet be determined to make them otherwise."
-- F. Scott Fitzgerald
it's been many years since I read The Catcher in the Rye. I would need to reread it to get into any in-depth conversations, but I do remember enjoying it.
I read it for bookclub and I really enjoyed it. However not everyone did in the group it was a 50/50 split
Catcher in the Rye is one of those books that can be great if you're reading them when you're 15 or so,and I really liked it the first time I read it,5-6 years ago,but after rereading it recently,I found it to be quite shallow in comparison to my earlier memory of it. Can't say it's one of my favourites.
Noću, u intimnom, poluglasnom razgovoru sa samim sobom, nikako ne mogu zapravo logički opravdati zašto se u posljednje vrijeme toliko uzrujavam zbog ljudske gluposti.
Miroslav Krleža
Another Catcher discussion:
http://www.online-literature.com/for...hlight=catcher
~
"It is not that I am mad; it is only that my head is different from yours.”
~
It's easily my favorite coming-of-age novel, and as a teacher, it lends itself well to teaching symbolism. I read it in one sitting when I was fifteen (a long time ago now!) and have probably read it a dozen times since. In today's age with internet access and--at least in the US--an "anything goes and everything is accepted" mentality it has doubtless lost some of its edginess, but in my experience most kids still enjoy it. I know it had a significant impact on me--
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