Blog Comments

  1. AuntShecky's Avatar
    Wow. Somebody ought to inform the Prestigious Guest on "Morning Joe" that he was quoting the wrong source.
  2. Red-Headed's Avatar
    "I'm not sure it's true that Margaret had no sense of humor. Shortly after her death, a talk show panel was sharing anecdotes about her. A participant said that one evening Maggie was dining out with her underlings, whom she evidently berated for their uselessness. So when she ordered a large steak, she told the waiter that she already had her "vegetables.""

    LOL, I think you will find that was actually from a sketch on a topical British satire show called 'Spitting Image'. Many people think it actually happened.

    The mythology about Thatcher continues ... ROTFL!
  3. AuntShecky's Avatar
    I saw the beginning of this comment on the LitNet's home page and it took forever to find the whole posting. That's because I looked at "new threads" rather than blogs. But now that I've found it, I'm so glad I did.

    You're certainly knowledgeable about your subject, no question about it. It probably wouldn't be cricket of yours fooly --an American, not a Brit --to offer a personal opinion about the late Mrs Thatcher, but I'm going to do it anyway. One of the reasons I admire the movie "V is for Vendetta" is its subtle analogy to Thatcher's government. In real life, I really resented the political philosophy that she shared with our then President, Ronald Reagan. The fact that she was apparently infatuated with Reagan was a joke over here at the time. But the extreme fiscal conservativism (and a similar kind of social conservatism) made poor folks suffer, just as they are suffering now through the policies which some of their predecessors are attempting to promote in their respective states. Ironically, members of this particular party idolize RRR and praise him to the skies, but pundits say Reagan would never be nominated by their party, for he wouldn't be considered as "far-right" as they are!

    Your blog was informative. I didn't know Thatcher had a "scientific" background. But you are absolutely correct in your assessment of economic theory, often called "the dismal science," or in your view "art." I wondered what a degree in economics is -- bachelor of
    science or bachelor of arts. (One could argue they're both"B.S.")

    I'm not sure it's true that Margaret had no sense of humor. Shortly after her death, a talk show panel was sharing anecdotes about her. A participant said that one evening Maggie was dining out with her underlings, whom she evidently berated for their uselessness. So when she ordered a large steak, she told the waiter that she already had her "vegetables."
  4. Red-Headed's Avatar
    Is there anything in the blog that needs explaining to you? Or is this just an immature attempt at trolling? Or are you about 12 years old? If so, I suggest you study harder at school.
  5. Red-Headed's Avatar
    This is just trolling. Make a cogent argument or don't reply at all. Of course, you may have to actually read the article to begin with. Are there any big words you want help with?
  6. cafolini's Avatar
    No, no fairies. Red fairies. LOL
  7. cafolini's Avatar
    Yawn....
  8. Red-Headed's Avatar
    Nothing I have written has anything to do with fairies. Thatcher failed so badly her own party conspired against her. Perhaps you should read the blog again & try to understand it a little.
  9. Red-Headed's Avatar
    Are you sure you have understood my position on Thatcher? I hope Obama's health reforms work. We have had a health service since 1948. Thatcher couldn't destroy it even though she tried.

    I suggest you re-read what I have written.
  10. cafolini's Avatar
    Not in fairy tales like yours. Definitely.
    ROFLMAO
  11. cafolini's Avatar
    This reminds me of WolfLarsen insulting Shakespeare to try to wake him up to life. An impossible. And make sure you understand that Barack Obama's policies will endure, regardless of your stupidly false position on the perspective from which they come and will endure.
  12. Red-Headed's Avatar
    Yeah, thanks. I know there are a lot of accent variations Stateside. This was exactly my point, even if I got a bit long-winded about it. The fact is we all have our own particular idiolect. It is naive to think that everyone reads the written word & 'hears' the same thing. This is one of the reasons that I don't pay too much attention to Classical prosody. Metre is sometimes in the ear of the beholder!

    Many American vowel sounds & speech patterns are not unlike East Midland & West Country English accents (according to Webster's the ultimate source of the American accent itself) & I have noticed that I tend to agree more with most American interpretations of prosody when it comes down to a dispute.

    My guess is that the 'flat' vowel sounds (particularly 'a') are more natural to my ears (as a Midlander) than Southern English. I pronounce the words 'bath', 'glass' & 'path' more or less as most Americans do. It is only in the south that the 'intrusive r' (ba-r-th, gla'r'ss etc) is really heard.

    It is often stated that Blake's 'Tyger' is one of the most famous examples of iambic pentameter in English. Yet I have spoken to many Americans online who are convinced the opening words 'Tyger Tyger' are trochees. I tend to hear them as that as well, especially when I actually recite the poem aloud.

    Language, especially the decoding of the written word is far more complex, rule-free & subjective than we actually like to think.

    Welcome to the crazy world of semiotic theory.
  13. Virgil's Avatar
    Wow, what a discussion. I have to support Red-Headed here. I have heard people insert that extra syllable. I'm pretty sure the people I heard it from had nothing to do with Midlands or any other English accent. I distinctly remember it growing up in Brooklyn.

    I checked the etymology and umbrella is a loan word from Italian, ombrella and ultimately from Latin, umbella.
    http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=umbrella
    Perhaps it's the blurring of the Latin "be" syllable with the Italian word that caused some to pronounce it "umberella." I can see that happening.

    Very interesting. I'll have to listen carefully as people pronounce it.
  14. Red-Headed's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by jersea
    I meant to say that Hillwalker doesn't speak with an American accent. And apologies to Hillwalker- He is Scottish. There is a huge difference.
    Good for you mate.
  15. Red-Headed's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by TheFifthElement
    Ouch! Touchy aren't we? I'm English and umbrella has 3 syllables. Consult the OED. The Japanese wouldn't have any dispute about numbers of syllables as the Japanese language is syllabic anyway - the 'letters' are actually single syllable sounds. A-ri-ga-to is the same wherever you live in Japan. So if you're sticking with 'tradition' of the origin country, accent can't come into it as it really doesn't affect syllabic content in Japanese. Perhaps that's why they're so particular about it. If you read any haiku in the original Japanese they always follow the syllabic rule. They have other rules of course, which you no doubt know.

    For certainty on syllabic content, consult the dictionary. Or don't call it a haiku, call it haiku-esque. Does it really matter? Was it worth being so rude?
    The OED only accepts received pronunciation. It is quite common in the Black Country to pronounce it as I do.

    Was it worth being so rude? Yes.

    Why? Because quite frankly I'm a bit bored with people like you & all of this hyper-corrective gibberish. In modern English it is technically incorrect to say 'It's me' (It is me). You should say 'It is I' because 'me' is the accusative & not the nominative case 'I' that is supposedly correct grammar.

    Does anyone outside of Malory or a Lord of the Rings movie say "It is I"? No they don't.

    Grammar is a convention & the English language is a rich & developing tapestry of dialects, nuances & interpretations. Most 'grammatical' rules were invented by 18th century grammarians who honestly believed English was a Latin descended language, it isn't. There is more Danish in English than either Latin or Norman French.

    I teach people who have special needs when it comes to reading & writing, I have found that even competent writers/readers will often use dialect when writing. It may be something simple such as writing 'them' instead of the grammatically correct 'those' or vice versa depending on context (by southern RP OED standards). When they inevitably ask me which is correct I invariably reply that it really a case of what the individual is happy with (as long as it isn't completely wrong).

    To criticise someone for writing in a form of their own dialect, even when they have explained their respective reasons for this is a bit immature & borders snobbery in my opinion.

    Please put me on ignore & never reply to one of my blogs again.

    Please ... (see how non-rude & polite I was there)

    P.S. There are definitely morae in the word 'A-ri-ga-to'. The Japanese themselves call them 表音文字 ( hyōon moji) I believe. Even some Indo-European languages have to be pronounced exactly, Russian being an example.
    Updated 07-31-2011 at 08:04 AM by Red-Headed (Grammar Nazis)
  16. Buh4Bee's Avatar
    I meant to say that Hillwalker doesn't speak with an American accent. And apologies to Hillwalker- He is Scottish. There is a huge difference.
  17. TheFifthElement's Avatar
    Ouch! Touchy aren't we? I'm English and umbrella has 3 syllables. Consult the OED. The Japanese wouldn't have any dispute about numbers of syllables as the Japanese language is syllabic anyway - the 'letters' are actually single syllable sounds. A-ri-ga-to is the same wherever you live in Japan. So if you're sticking with 'tradition' of the origin country, accent can't come into it as it really doesn't affect syllabic content in Japanese. Perhaps that's why they're so particular about it. If you read any haiku in the original Japanese they always follow the syllabic rule. They have other rules of course, which you no doubt know.

    For certainty on syllabic content, consult the dictionary. Or don't call it a haiku, call it haiku-esque. Does it really matter? Was it worth being so rude?
    Updated 07-30-2011 at 09:44 PM by Red-Headed
  18. Red-Headed's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by jersea
    I know he does not speak with an English accent.
    Please define an 'English' accent. Are we talking Geordie, Scouse, Mancunian, Lancastrian, Broads, Brummie, Black Country, West Country, Estuary, Cockney, Home Counties or received pronunciation?

    Answers on a postcard please, post to Limeyville, 1950s Stereotype Avenue, England.

  19. Red-Headed's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by jersea
    First of all, Hillwalker isn't American, he's Welsh. So you are getting feedback from not only an American. I know he does not speak with an English accent. As far as having your own pronunciation system, it is wrong. If you know so much about speech pathology, you would know how to break words down properly. Umbrella has 3 syllables.
    How do you know what I sound like, an expert on Frisian/Mercian British English accents are we?

    I think not ...

    Quote Originally Posted by jersea
    Umbrella has 3 syllables.
    Oh the arrogance!

    American English isn't the only form of English. English is our language & Midlands/Mercian English is the closest to Anglo-Saxon as you can possibly get outside of the Icelandic mainland.

    Hillwalker is actually Scottish. Like I've said, I have a Black Country accent & for me umbrella has four distinct syllables. Just like road, toad & load have two syllables & tea, sea & pea are all pronounced 'tay', 'say' & 'pay'.



    Example of Black Country dialect
    Updated 07-30-2011 at 01:46 PM by Red-Headed (Trying to explain who Aynuk & Ayli are to the uncultured)
  20. Buh4Bee's Avatar
    First of all, Hillwalker isn't American, he's Welsh. So you are getting feedback from not only an American. I know he does not speak with an English accent. As far as having your own pronunciation system, it is wrong. If you know so much about speech pathology, you would know how to break words down properly. Umbrella has 3 syllables.
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