Standard or Free Range Eggs?

[*Classic*Charm*]

I suppose lab grown might make better burger/ pie type meat where it is retextured.

As for the lab cannibalism - just a thought - bit of prime rump... It's not a million miles away from growing your own organs though.

Hahahaha ewwwww

[*Classic*Charm*]

Yes I've read the two articles you posted Classic, thanks for including them.

http://www.fao.org/ag/AGAInfo/home/e.../part2/2_5.pdf
http://www.ciwf.org.uk/includes/docu...cages_1991.pdf

The top one incidentally also shows that the UK is relatively high up the scale in free range egg production. If you look at the table on page 8 it shows sales of free range and barn at 40%, however the data is from 2007 and I strongly suspect that the figures have increased a little since then, certainly the 50/50 mark I mentioned previously doesn't seem out of reach. Yes as you say the US is well behind this figure at around 5% of free range sales. Switzerland is best of all with no caged systems and sales around 60/40% free range/barn, although perhaps both this numbers have increased in the last three years a little too?

My pleasure. Haha yes, times they are a-changin'.

The other article certainly proves scientifically that the caged system is cruel, though I would have guessed that without reading it, it's common sense at the end of the day, but it is good to have some data on it regardless. For example in the conclusion it states that "hens suffer in battery cages. Many aspects of suffering are chronic, and affect all individuals." This like I said is common sense as they can hardly turn around.

See, I feel like you're still missing my point though. It seems like common sense that cages care cruel, but the reasons which lead you to that conclusion are not the real reasons. Not being able to turn around does not induce suffering, but is the cause of other issued which do. We need to understand what causes suffering and what prevents it, and use this knowledge to create the best possible housing system.

One thing I picked up on though, which I didn't know, is that producers control egg production by regular bouts of controlled starvation. This causes the birds to moult and to produce fewer eggs. Then when they are fed again the yield and size increases. Hmm, I'm not sure that I support controlled starvations - Jesus what century are we living in?

Controlled starvation has been a means used on various production species for various reasons. It's been used in chicks where they are not fed for the first few days post-hatch as it leads to increased feed intake as they grow. It has been used in beef cattle and swine in the past for various reasons. As to whether or not it's still used, I'm not 100% sure. I don't think it is with cattle and swine, but I have no idea as to poultry. I haven't read any recent research on the subject.

Another interesting point highlighted the fact that these birds kept in the caged system have 41% less bone strength (probably because they can hardly move) and regularly suffer from breakages, often self-inflicted through agitation and frustration. Honestly people if you are buying these eggs then you are indirectly causing this.

In the other thread you said that the caged system was not being dropped in the UK, merely adapted, if possible could you give me some more information on this please? I’ll have a dig around in the meantime. I believed that the caged system was being abandoned altogether, following the fine example set by the world leader, Switzerland.

Also, if you have any other good links feel free to post them up. I don't usually bother which much science stuff, but it is very informative.

Thank You.

Edit:
UK Egg Facts 2009:
http://www.egginfo.co.uk/page/eggfacts

Ooh, the transition was discussed in a class I was taking, but I don't know if I have any literature or notes on the subject. I'll poke around and see what I can find for you.

[Shalot]

I don't know if anyone has talked about what I'm about to say and quite frankly I'm too lazy to read anymore of the posts but I have started buying free range eggs because the animals are treated more humanely. I don't give a crap about the taste - it all tastes the same I guess - I wouldn't even know. The belief behind this is that all food has an energy imprint and when you eat the food, you take on that energy, which includes the negative energy from animals who are caged in and treated like crap for the purpose of feeding humans. So, if the poor little chickens can run around and not be stuck in a cage then I guess that's better for the chickens. And please, feel free to make fun of me. I don't care. That's why I buy free range eggs. And if I'm being ripped off then what goes around comes around. And that's just more bad energy. and bad energy is bad. and no, this is not a drunk post at all. at all. :->

[LitNetIsGreat]

I don't know if anyone has talked about what I'm about to say and quite frankly I'm too lazy to read anymore of the posts but I have started buying free range eggs because the animals are treated more humanely. I don't give a crap about the taste - it all tastes the same I guess - I wouldn't even know. The belief behind this is that all food has an energy imprint and when you eat the food, you take on that energy, which includes the negative energy from animals who are caged in and treated like crap for the purpose of feeding humans. So, if the poor little chickens can run around and not be stuck in a cage then I guess that's better for the chickens. And please, feel free to make fun of me. I don't care. That's why I buy free range eggs. And if I'm being ripped off then what goes around comes around. And that's just more bad energy. and bad energy is bad. and no, this is not a drunk post at all. at all. :->

No one is going to make fun of you, you make an excellent point actually. There are millions of Buddhists and others that would totally agree with your reasoning as well. Regardless of the reasoning anyway you are making a difference by supporting free range egg industry which I believe is the right thing to do. You are not being ripped off. Caged birds are treated like crap you are correct and you are objecting to this by buying free range. You are also getting a better quality egg for your money into the bargain. (There is nothing wrong with drunk posts anyway, most of my inspiration comes from my night postings after having drank the odd half a glass (or so) of ale.) Thanks for contributing to the thread and feel free to read back over it at your leisure. There is also another chicken thread below somewhere you might be interested in.

See, I feel like you're still missing my point though. It seems like common sense that cages care cruel, but the reasons which lead you to that conclusion are not the real reasons. Not being able to turn around does not induce suffering, but is the cause of other issued which do. We need to understand what causes suffering and what prevents it, and use this knowledge to create the best possible housing system.

I'm not missing the point. I read every word of your links and have read plenty of other stuff besides - I do get quite obsessive with the things that interest me. I understand your points regarding the science and the dangers of anthropomorphizing. I know that the suffering in the caged system is because of the limiting factors of the five areas which is understood to provide chickens with a normal healthy life. That it is not necessarily the cage itself, but the restricting effects of the cage which limits natural actions or restricts normal behaviours. If I have knocked the science it is because I try to be governed by common sense. I wouldn't need scientific evidence to show that it is wrong to operate on a live dog. However, you are correct. Proper scientific evidence is extremely useful to support and inform your arguments and understanding of the wider issues. I'm almost embarrassed to say that during one of our arguments Mrs Neely asked me if chickens even have a brain. She was being serious. I suspect she is not alone in such outrageous ignorance. So I do not reject scientific inquiry to inform and shape understanding at all and I am not missing the point, but I still think that there is something to be said for common (or uncommon) sense.

I also value the science because it clearly shows a large degree of valid evidence which proves that chickens suffer greatly by the caged egg production. So, with this in mind, can you tell me why it is that it is still the most widely used method across the world. How can it be justified?

Ooh, the transition was discussed in a class I was taking, but I don't know if I have any literature or notes on the subject. I'll poke around and see what I can find for you.

Thanks a lot, don't go to too much trouble on my behalf. I had a quick dig around last night but soon got distracted by other things. I was trying to find information on the transition but then ended up on the Compassion for World Farming website where I nearly bought a T-shirt.