The puzzle of the socalled "Bach variations".

[Musicology]

LOL !

Cantata
BWV 177/1
Opening Chorus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU3VtZB-c3g

Concerto
BWV 1043/1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc_xO...eature=related

Concerto
BWV 1064/3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMWnd...eature=related

Your failure to face up to the clearly defined challenge you accepted a while back in this thread cannot be remedied by another volley of grove-ling nonsense!

[Gilliatt Gurgle]

Let's face it, one of the Cocchi clan (that loyal breed of servants devoted to musical obscurantism and to furthering cultural propaganda and who were spread like margarine in high places across the face of much of musical Europe over several generations)

You are obviously suffering, Robert!

Here is something to cheer you up, courtesy
Robert Newman research into the "Mozart conspiracy"
His upcoming book "The Manufacture of Mozart" (Now canceled? If so, why?)

Yanni,

Your post reminds me to use the opening lines of Martin Luther's remarkable book, 'Bondage of the Will' (1525) - which contains the most brilliant (and detailed) reply to the cowardly dogmas of the Roman theologian Erasmus. I paraphrase where Luther writes -

Indeed, Robert, as a lifelong classical-music-fan/consummer, eversince I learned of your coming book on Mozart/Nissen I lost my sleep in anticipation.

Regards!

Thank you Yanni,

The book is not on Mozart/Nissen. It's an expose of the cardboard world that eventually became (and still is) the musical pantheon of western culture, focusing in particular on the engineered life, career and iconic status of the 'genius' composer W.A. Mozart.

Praised be the Luther, the Handel, the Bach, the Kant, the Churchill and all other Lords of H.M's Admiralty.

No, Yanni. It seems you have not yet learned praise is NOT due to human beings in any of the cases you refer to. And especially not in the case of Herr GF Handel, the Churchill's or any of the Lords of HM Admiralty.
Regards

And do excuse me for including the Churchills but they did support Bach during his stay in London-as Handel/Amyand-did they not?

Anyway, best of luck with your Mozart manufacture!

You were going to show us some evidence in support of your idea that G F Handel was JS Bach (and vice-versa).

You had your chance to patch up your conventional grove-ling "truth" but alas at the expense and to the detriment of your Mozart salami (as per public opinion, post 304 above).

Yes Yanni,

We must never let basic facts (and the absence of them) get in the way of a convoluted story. It seems we have fallen in exhaustion over the winning line -GF Handel is JS Bach in the same way that a horse is a sewing machine !

Gentlemen please!
I can no longer bear witness to such verbal assaults tearing each other asunder. I implore you; hold thy tongue, blanch the bitter words with a chilled Riesling.

References to Churchill are right and fitting. Therefore let us heed the words of “The Last Lion”:
“Never before in the field of musicologists, have so many owed so much to you two”

Yanni,
Let us not begrudge Robert for tapping the brakes on getting his book published. After all, adding a couple of chapters on Coronado’s role in the manufacturing process will take time. I for one, and the community of Dumas, applaud Robert for his courage in having second thoughts.

Robert,
Let us sip the wine of civility and open our minds to the possibilities of Bachandel. Once again, Churchill’s wisdom may provide the answer to solving the riddle…”…I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears, and sweat.”
Have you ever read Chrichton my friend? DNA…DNA will lead the way. Traces must exist, perhaps blood on a string from playing pizzicato, tears on a sheet of music or sweat on the organ keys.



Regards,
Gilliatt

[yanni]

Robert,

Thanks for bringing Caruso's 'ridi, pagliaccio' to my mind!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL7wdUPXpiM

Compliments for your ERS finale, Gilliat.

[Musicology]

Yanni is right of course. (Although what, exactly, he is right about must remain unknown). His is a triumph of obscurantism refuted only by the obvious and by what may be seen in broad daylight.

BWV 207/1-2

Auf, schmetternde töne der muntern trompeten

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m35EAzi1h4Y

[yanni]

Try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_vision_device.

[Musicology]

'No, not done in a corner nor in darkness but before the whole world'

BWV 130

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-AIn...eature=related

[yanni]

Please yourself in public if you must, Robert.

The fact is your "Mozart Conspiracy" claim was being ridiculed all around (http://www.topix.com/forum/music/cla...LQFV593LJKP/p3) until you brought it to this site (along with a second Nissen just in case) to be then provided with- and be overwhelmed by-all "missing dots" which you then tried but failed to dispute.

The existence of another Robert Newman, stockbrocker and manager of Covent Garden and Queen's Hall http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Newman_(impresario) provides the answer as to your biases if not motives.

Allelujah!

[Musicology]

The fact is Yanni every change is ridiculed. By those who have consumed and taught myth and have never once thought for themselves. By those whose musical landscape omits the lives and careers of 3,000 composers of the 18th century. They and their music. By those who have never critically examined what they themselves have consumed. That's normal. It's even called 'education' and 'culture'. And it's as useless as the myth of Isis and Osiris. 'Dumbing down' is the norm these days. It pays mortgages and keeps occultists and hidden fraternal hands in charge of student 'education' and the curriculum. The fact is you don't know the subject of Mozart or of the manufactured pantheon of western 'music history' - by your own admission. The fact is the Handel/Bach invention is complete nonsense and is only a 'red herring' surrounded by smoke and mirrors. Unsupported by any evidence whatsoever. The fact is there are dozens of Robert Newmans. And the fact is you cannot tell us how G.F. Handel fathered any of the 20 children born to the Bach family as you claim. Despite being repeatedly asked to produce a timeline in support of the contrary evidence. Notice the silence ?

No answer ? As usual. I think we have established you have no evidence to offer. It doesn't phase you at all. Can we please have some more obscurantism from you ? To divert us from reality. You are so GOOD at it Yanni ! Where did you learn this stuff ? In the fraternities or at the school of Mozart mythology ? Laugh at your own nonsense. It will do you good.

Beethoven Parody

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l3hq4G1iHs

Please yourself in public if you must, Robert.

The fact is your "Mozart Conspiracy" claim was being ridiculed all around (http://www.topix.com/forum/music/cla...LQFV593LJKP/p3) until you brought it to this site (along with a second Nissen just in case) to be then provided with- and overwhelmed by-all "missing dots" which you then tried but failed to dispute.

The existence of another Robert Newman, stockbrocker and manager of Covent Garden and Queen's Hall http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Newman_(impresario) provides the answer as to your biases if not motives.

Allelujah!

[yanni]

Keep on doing what you do best, Robert!

[Musicology]

Yanni,

The global control of schools and universities in respect of what is taught and considered to be 'convention' is not some imagined conspiracy theory. It is a plain fact.

It's a plain fact that academic subjects such as musical and artistic history are closely controlled internationally these days by universities, publishers, education ministers, broadcasters, presidents of colleges, committees, and others. With patronage in these areas reserved for compliant organisations and withheld from those who dissent. With the school curriculum and its content engineered for generations of students.

I provide 2 of many powerful proofs of this fact. The first contained in the little known 'Roerich Pact', signed in Washington, USA April 1935 by then President of the USA, Franklin D Roosevelt, and by his Secretary of State, Cordell Hall. Signed first by 21 representatives of the nations of North and South America at that time. Entitled, 'Protection of Artistic and Scientific Institutions and Historic Monuments'. This cultural control movement was later embedded within the Hague Treaty of 1954 when it was also signed by representatives of virtually every other country of the entire world. The United Nations approved control, in fact, of what is taught and believed in academic, scientific, historical and cultural areas. As part of a global policy of education and 'culture'.

Involving (amongst other things) protection of museums, exhibitions, centres of study, reading material, what is taught and published. Conservatism with a capital 'C'. Further evidence, in fact, of the occultist takeover of our history, education and culture. Worldwide.

http://www.roerich.org/nr_RPact.html

[yanni]

J.S. Bach apparently said "[Handel] is the only person I would wish to see before I die, and the only person I would wish to be, were I not Bach."

Mozart is reputed to have said of him, "Handel understands effect better than any of us. When he chooses, he strikes like a thunder bolt" and to Beethoven he was "the master of us all...the greatest composer that ever lived. I would uncover my head and kneel before his tomb." The latter emphasised above all the simplicity and popular appeal of Handel's music when he said, "Go to him to learn how to achieve great effects, by such simple means."

He is commemorated as a musician in the Calendar of Saints of the Lutheran Church on July 28, with J.S. Bach and Heinrich Schütz.

http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Lib/Handel.htm

Praised be the (Lutheran) Lord!

[Musicology]

Isn't that a strange thing for Bach to say if, in fact, he and Handel were always the same person ?

But, whether the Lutheran church commemorates these or other men is of course an irrelevance. What is true will transcend them. That is what gives them their value.

Orchestral Suite No. 1 (Overture)
Arranged for Accordians

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4_Nd...eature=related

J.S. Bach apparently said "[Handel] is the only person I would wish to see before I die, and the only person I would wish to be, were I not Bach."

Mozart is reputed to have said of him, "Handel understands effect better than any of us. When he chooses, he strikes like a thunder bolt" and to Beethoven he was "the master of us all...the greatest composer that ever lived. I would uncover my head and kneel before his tomb." The latter emphasised above all the simplicity and popular appeal of Handel's music when he said, "Go to him to learn how to achieve great effects, by such simple means."

He is commemorated as a musician in the Calendar of Saints of the Lutheran Church on July 28, with J.S. Bach and Heinrich Schütz.

http://www.bach-cantatas.com/Lib/Handel.htm

Praised be the (Lutheran) Lord!

[yanni]

Common sense would find the inverse choice of labels as better fitting:

"Of irrelevance" what Bach's "sources" claim he said on Handel (or anything/anybody else for that matter) and "strange" the Lutheran church's choice to commemorate Handel/Bach on the same day!

My compliments for your performance, Robert!

[Musicology]

On October 26th of each year the same Lutheran church commemorates the lives and careers of no less than three hymn writers - Philip Nicolai (1556-1608), Johann Heermann (1585-1647) and Paul Gerhardt (1607-1676).

Yanni has thus 'proved' (as only Yanni can !) these three hymn writers were the same man also. Someone should tell the Lutheran Church about this discovery.

'And then, with the most amazing interweaving of parts, this music began' (Contemporary Report - Leipzig).

JS Bach
Orchestral Suite No. 1 (Overture)
Arranged for Piano Accordians etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4_Nd...eature=related

[yanni]

As any reader may see, evidence leading to the conclusion Bach and Handel were the same person has been presented long before this last post, Robert, which (last post) mainly serves to highlight your worthy talents in the world's oldest art. Bravo!

Otherwise:

Bach's alleged quote (on Handel being ' the only person I would wish to see before I die, and the only person I would wish to be, were I not Bach') is one out of many indications of the overall control Bach's "sources" excercised during the critical times and suffering their conspiracies caused, allowing for their excessive confidence and ironic humor, joking even with their own family secret.

'When the saints go marching in': http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyLjbMBpGDA