Classical Listening

[stlukesguild]

Robert... the problem with your theories is that you cite endless documents as proof of your position that no one except musicologists and music historians would care to investigate or refute. And yet you have not convinced the least percentage of those who are indeed experts in the field. Of course you counter that this is but proof of how ingrained the conspiracy is... which puts the anyone else in a no win situation... or rather you would have the non-expert audience take your word... the word of an amateur... over that of all the professionals and experts in the field. If you had indisputable proof as to the falsehood of Mozart's achievements... or even enough proof to warrant serious doubts... there would be any number of academics jumping upon the information. But such is not the case. Until such time, I think I'll stick with the majority view of the "experts" in the field and believe that Mozart, Haydn, and Beethoven wrote most of what is attributed to them, Shakespeare wrote Hamlet, King Lear, Othello, etc... and Niel Armstrong walked on the moon.

By the way... I don't see how the notion that a single composer wrote all that is attributed to Mozart or Haydn can be imagined as any more fantastic than the notion that J.S. Bach wrote all that is attributed to him. Hell, Bach's oeuvre dwarfs that of Mozart and Haydn combined. 224 cantatas alone... and this is just what has come down to us. There may have been as many as 400. Two complete passions with a Passion of St. Luke and passion of St. Mark largely lost. Some 10-15 CDs worth of solo music for the organ. Bach (and Handel) far away overwhelm me in terms of their musical output and its consistent high quality.

[yanni]

The problem with Robert's theory is his total "indifference" to historical facts, to then "hang it all on Rome" as if dogmas, and not other geopolitical differences, were behind 18th/19th centuries wars.

Here is his opinion on the "Mizler Music Society" of which Handel/Bach "both" were members:

One of the more remarkable 'coincidences' of musical history - you might care to examine the list of the members of the short-lived 'Korrespondierenden Sozietät der Musicalischen Wissenschaften' (Corresponding Society of the Musical Sciences) actually founded by young Mizler (actually managed by the Lucchesini clan and by others in 1738). (Lucchesinis being of course ecclesiastical elites in Rome and Marquis in Lucca before that).

Among the very few data known on this "G.Lucchesini" and his "Roman clan" is the fact that he, a servant of Rome(!), was Prussia's embassador to Paris in 1805, a critical year for Prussia's future(!!):

Only one solution remained whereby Prussia could take possession of Hanover: that it break with London and close the North Sea and Baltic ports to merchant ships sailing under the British flag. At length, Haugwitz was trapped and feared that further prevarication would cause Napoleon with each passing day to dictate stiffer terms to the proposed Treaty of Schönbrunn and refuse to grant tomorrow what he offered today. With a feeling of dread, he signed the new treaty on February 15. Naturally anxious to avoid the wrath of the King, the Queen and their advisors, Haugwitz chose the Prussian ambassador to Paris, the Marquis of Lucchesini, to take the dispatches to Berlin, where fearing that Napoleon would retract his offer of last resort, the treaty was ratified on February 25. When the news broke, a storm of outrage erupted in the Prussian capital, and the war faction, led by the Queen and Prince Louis Ferdinand, fuelled war hysteria with a stream of insult and abuse towards France in general and the Emperor in particular. Napoleon has all the more credit for persisting in his desire not to penalize Prussia too harshly despite its treachery and betrayal, given that two items of good news had arrived from across the English Channel… http://www.napoleonicsociety.com/english/chap17e.htm

Caveat emptor!

[Musicology]

StLukesGuild,

You may be right. But the 'experts' seem to be on a long holiday and the 'endless documents' suggest why. Let's look through the widening gaps in their cardboard fence.

Ich will nur dir zu Ehren leben
Werner Güra

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEyT_...eature=related

Robert

Robert... the problem with your theories is that you cite endless documents as proof of your position that no one except musicologists and music historians would care to investigate or refute. And yet you have not convinced the least percentage of those who are indeed experts in the field. Of course you counter that this is but proof of how ingrained the conspiracy is... which puts the anyone else in a no win situation... or rather you would have the non-expert audience take your word... the word of an amateur... over that of all the professionals and experts in the field. If you had indisputable proof as to the falsehood of Mozart's achievements... or even enough proof to warrant serious doubts... there would be any number of academics jumping upon the information. But such is not the case. Until such time, I think I'll stick with the majority view of the "experts" in the field and believe that Mozart, Haydn, and Beethoven wrote most of what is attributed to them, Shakespeare wrote Hamlet, King Lear, Othello, etc... and Niel Armstrong walked on the moon.

By the way... I don't see how the notion that a single composer wrote all that is attributed to Mozart or Haydn can be imagined as any more fantastic than the notion that J.S. Bach wrote all that is attributed to him. Hell, Bach's oeuvre dwarfs that of Mozart and Haydn combined. 224 cantatas alone... and this is just what has come down to us. There may have been as many as 400. Two complete passions with a Passion of St. Luke and passion of St. Mark largely lost. Some 10-15 CDs worth of solo music for the organ. Bach (and Handel) far away overwhelm me in terms of their musical output and its consistent high quality.

The problem is that cultural fascism (a 'new kid on the block' only 200 years old and artificially bloated to enormous size by huge commerical and academic success at the hands of global occultism - this foisted on an unsuspecting world in the name of 'the history of music' and today posing as a genuine branch of musicology) has constructed and managed a carboard fence of their own design around music and musical achievement with minimal criticism - all done in the name of musicology - obscuring from view, by design, 99.99% of its reality by deliberate and indisputable acts of biographical and musical falsification, gross exaggeration, fraternal control, suppression, lack of criticism and biographical invention with the result having all the features of pagan idolatry - so we as consumers know less of it than the music of ancient Egypt, Babylon, China, Greece, or Imperial Rome. And we, in this most undeniable state of ignorance have the audacity to call it 'education' and 'western musical culture'. While its critics are ignored.

(The thing to do is look behind the gaping holes in their purple cardboard curtain. While its guardians, its 'experts' are on so long a holiday).

Better still, let's nail our findings to their 'church' doors. ! Please pass me a nail and hammer ! Then we can have a tea and laugh at it all.

LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEyT_...eature=related

The problem with Robert's theory is his total "indifference" to historical facts, to then "hang it all on Rome" as if dogmas, and not other geopolitical differences, were behind 18th/19th centuries wars.

Here is his opinion on the "Mizler Music Society" of which Handel/Bach "both" were members:

One of the more remarkable 'coincidences' of musical history - you might care to examine the list of the members of the short-lived 'Korrespondierenden Sozietät der Musicalischen Wissenschaften' (Corresponding Society of the Musical Sciences) actually founded by young Mizler (actually managed by the Lucchesini clan and by others in 1738). (Lucchesinis being of course ecclesiastical elites in Rome and Marquis in Lucca before that).

Among the very few data known on this "G.Lucchesini" and his "Roman clan" is the fact that he, a servant of Rome(!), was Prussia's embassador to Paris in 1805, a critical year for Prussia's future(!!):

Only one solution remained whereby Prussia could take possession of Hanover: that it break with London and close the North Sea and Baltic ports to merchant ships sailing under the British flag. At length, Haugwitz was trapped and feared that further prevarication would cause Napoleon with each passing day to dictate stiffer terms to the proposed Treaty of Schönbrunn and refuse to grant tomorrow what he offered today. With a feeling of dread, he signed the new treaty on February 15. Naturally anxious to avoid the wrath of the King, the Queen and their advisors, Haugwitz chose the Prussian ambassador to Paris, the Marquis of Lucchesini, to take the dispatches to Berlin, where fearing that Napoleon would retract his offer of last resort, the treaty was ratified on February 25. When the news broke, a storm of outrage erupted in the Prussian capital, and the war faction, led by the Queen and Prince Louis Ferdinand, fuelled war hysteria with a stream of insult and abuse towards France in general and the Emperor in particular. Napoleon has all the more credit for persisting in his desire not to penalize Prussia too harshly despite its treachery and betrayal, given that two items of good news had arrived from across the English Channel… http://www.napoleonicsociety.com/english/chap17e.htm

Caveat emptor!

[stlukesguild]

Like the "classical era", the Baroque was largely ignored... with the exceptions of J.S. Bach, Vivaldi, and Handel... and for years there were limitations as to what was known of or accessible by these composers. In the mid-20th century there was a continual on-going dispute between hard-core Modernists and latent Romantics as to the direction music SHOULD take. The Modernists insisted that tonal music was dead and that any effort at tonal composition was but proof that the composer was a reactionary still stuck in the 19th century. Tonal composers, on the other hand, argued that Romanticism was the natural language of music while the majority of Modernism was but the un-listenable experimentation of composers living in an ivory tower.

At the height of this dispute, the younger generation of composers began to explore possibilities beyond this unsustainable dichotomy. They were especially attracted to non-Western musical traditions, and to earlier forms of the Western musical tradition that had been long ignored. One of the consequences of this renewed interest was the development of the Historically Informed Performance (HIP) approach to music... especially the Baroque. Conductors began to make serious study of the music of Baroque composers, the instruments they employed, the size of their musical ensembles, the manner of playing or singing. With this movement the vast oeuvres of Vivaldi, Handel, and especially J.S. Bach were uncovered... and given new life. At the same time, other worthy composers... the compatriots of Bach, Handel, and Vivaldi were "rediscovered": Rameau, Monteverdi, Domenico and Alessandro Scarlatti, Lully, Zelenka, Palestrina, Sweelinck, Buxtehude, Couperin, Byrd, Purcell, Dowland, and many more.

One of the giants of the Baroque era was the composer, Johann Adolph Hasse. Hasse and Telemann were perhaps the two most dominant composers of the era. Hasse was born near Hamburg and traveled to Naples in his early twenties where he began to develop the more "Italianate" style to his music. He studied with Alessandro Scarlatti, became friends with Pietro Metastasio, the leading opera librettist of the era, and married the soprano Faustina Bordoni. He was appointed Kapellmeister at the powerful and culturally sophisticated Dresden court, a position which J.S. Bach envied as a result of the quality musical establishment Dresden maintained. Bach is thought to have attended the premiere of Johann Adolf Hasse's opera Cleofide, and spoken well of it, while his son C.P.E. Bach suggests that his father and Hasse became good friends.

In spite of his position as Kapellmeister, Hasse continued to travel extensively... especially throughout Italy... but including extended periods spent in Vienna, Poland, and Paris. In Venice and Naples his operas were given lavish productions that made them the model for opera throughout Europe. He became a beloved by many of the European courts. He was the favorite Marie-Theresa, Empress of the Habsburg Empire during his stay in Vienna, two of his operatic arias were performed every night for a decade for Philip V of Spain, and many of his flute concertos were written for Frederick the Great, a keen flute player.

Hasse's reputation began to decline in his later years. Returning to Dresden after the Seven Years War, Hasse found much of his home destroyed and the musical apparatus of the court opera wrecked. His patron, the Emperor Friedrich August II died soon after and his successor, deemed elaborate musical events at the court superfluous. Hasse and Faustina were paid two years' wages and let go. Hasse returned to Vienna, but discovered that his music and the librettos of Metastasian were under attack by the avant garde reforms of Christoph Willibald Gluck. Hasse spent the final ten years of his life in Venice, teaching and composing sacred works. His music was almost completely forgotten following his death, with the exception of some of the sacred works which continued to be performed throughout Germany. It was only toward the end of the 20th century that the vast oeuvre of Hasse began to resurface along with that of many other Baroque composers.

Hasse's sacred works are surely quite lovely... and exhibit a theatrical, driving rhythm. His works exhibit elements that are at once Italianate in the lightness of touch and Germanicin their rhythmic solidity and complexity:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEmeO9pF6c4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWutu...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfr_A...eature=related

[yanni]

Don't want to focus on Lucchesini and his 1805 appointment as Prussia's embassador to Paris?

I understand, the more so because his name is so closely related to Lucchesi* and "enlightment"!

Here is the late Taboga's reconstruction of Lucchesi's curious association with the electors of Kurkoeln, Haydn, Mozart and his brother in law, "Ferdinand d'Anthoin", all yours to interpret:
http://b7w.co.uk/Classical/Period/Classical/Luchesi.asp

*For laughs, Wikipedia: Andrea Luchesi was nominated official court Kapellmeister in 1774. He acquired the principality's citizenship and in 1775 married Anthonetta Josepha d'Anthoin, daughter of Maximilian Friederich's senior counselor. With the exception of a visit to Venice in 1783-84, he lived in Bonn until his death in 1801, although his role as Kapellmeister ended in 1794, when the French invasion troops suppressed the court.

The problem is that cultural fascism (a 'new kid on the block' only 200 years old and artificially bloated to enormous size by huge commerical and academic success at the hands of global occultism - this foisted on an unsuspecting world in the name of 'the history of music' and today posing as a genuine branch of musicology) has constructed and managed a carboard fence of their own design around music and musical achievement with minimal criticism - all done in the name of musicology - obscuring from view, by design, 99.99% of its reality by deliberate and indisputable acts of biographical and musical falsification, gross exaggeration, fraternal control, suppression, lack of criticism and biographical invention with the result having all the features of pagan idolatry - so we as consumers know less of it than the music of ancient Egypt, Babylon, China, Greece, or Imperial Rome. And we, in this most undeniable state of ignorance have the audacity to call it 'education' and 'western musical culture'. While its critics are ignored.

(The thing to do is look behind the gaping holes in their purple cardboard curtain. While its guardians, its 'experts' are on so long a holiday).

Better still, let's nail our findings to their 'church' doors. ! Please pass me a nail and hammer ! Then we can have a tea and laugh at it all.

LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEyT_...eature=related

[yanni]

One of the giants of the Baroque era was the composer, Johann Adolph Hasse. Hasse and Telemann were perhaps the two most dominant composers of the era.

They certainly were but I wouldn't place a bet on their identity!

[Musicology]

Old Man River
Jim Croce

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw_jU_WEK60

[yanni]

Giovanni Boccaccio:

Il Decameron Di Messer Giovanni Boccaccio
London-Thomas Edlin, 1725. Very Good Book A scarce edition of this famous and important work with an interesting provenance. Bound in leather with gilt lettering and decoration. This edition ofTheDecameron is a direct reprint of the 1527 edition, including the frontispiece and title page, with additional editorial matter. Includes two engraved plates, the frontispiece by Baron after Grisoni and a portrait of Boccaccio engraved by Auber. With the ink signature of Frederick Nicolay to the 1527 title page. Withthededication by Paolo Rolli. The three-pagelist of subscribers includes numerous eminent names. Paolo Antonio Rolli, 1687 1765, was an Italian librettistand poet. Hewas trained by Gian Vincenzo Gravina, andworked in London from 171544. He wrote librettos for numerous Italian operas, and worked frequently with composer Giovanni Bononcini. In addition to his work as a libretist, Rolli wrote poetry, cantata texts, satires and translations. Rolli published an Italian verse translation of Milton's Paradise Lost, widely considered the finest in any language. Frederick de Nicolay was born in Saxe-Gotha and died 16 May 1809 at St James Palace, London. Frederick was introduced to King George III, with whom he became a very great favourite, andremained ever after the confidential friend of both their Majesties, as well as of their family. He lived in St. James's Palace. Nicolay became Chief Clerk to the British Treasury. Condition: The binding is tight and firm. The front board is missing, and the rear board and free-endpaper are detached. There is wear to the extremities, including rubbing and discoloured marks, with loss to the spine, including the spine label. Internally however the pagesare brightwith only some intermittent light background spots, becoming prominent to the first few pages only as to be expected. The front free-endpaper has a very small section missing to the top corner. Overall the condition is fair but with a very good interior and would make a very good copy once rebound. Priced to allow for the excellent binding it deserves.
[Bookseller: Alibris]

Obviously a Saxegothan with strong links to pre 1725 Florence!

[Musicology]

Mihali Mosonyi (1815-70)
Piano Concerto in E Minor

Hungarian Composer

(Excerpt)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LUCs...eature=related

[LitNetIsGreat]

Old Man River
Jim Croce

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uw_jU_WEK60

My grandfather years ago told me that he wanted this played at his funeral, though the Paul Robeson version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh9WayN7R-s

Let's hear it for Neely's grandfather, such a top fella.

Still handing in there...

[oshima]

I've been listening repeatedly to a London Symphony Orchestra recording Brahms Serenade No. 1 in D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlY-c...eature=related

[L.M. The Third]

Thanks for the Haydn suggestions, stlukes.
I'm currently listening to contralto Maureen Forrester singing Purcell songs and arias from Serse.

[stlukesguild]

For anyone who loves Mozart's operas the recent series of recordings by Rene Jacobs are an absolute must. These historically informed performances bring a muscularity and a clarity to the music that is often obfuscated by performances employing large romantic-scale orchestras. Rene Jacobs' recordings have absolutely shaken up the world of Mozart's operas. Earlier operas that were once largely ignored such as La Clemenza di Titto, and Idomeneo Re de Creta are put forth which such clarity of thought and intensity that they are at last recognized for what they are, some of the greatest operas of the time... excepting only Mozart's own later efforts.

Currently I'm listening to the long awaited Jacobs recording of Die Zaubertflote (The Magic Flute), perhaps the most beloved... certainly the most magical and most tuneful of Mozart's operas. The deluxe packaging alone with a beautiful cardboard box with hidden storage panels and a 300+ page book with the full libretto are enough alone to seduce the Mozartian or general opera or classical music lover.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkObIajZcTc



Jacobs takes the work at a brisk pace... perfectly capturing the humor and unabashed joy of this work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keS32...eature=related

The sound quality... as should be expected of most Harmonia Mundi recordings... is spectacular. The stripped-down orchestrations allows one to hear all of the layers of Mozart's musical composition... even the piano forte continuo. The use of the piano forte continuo lends the music a music hall-like atmosphere... perfectly suited to this great "singspiel"The singers are splendid, if not quite of the caliber of Otto Klemperers recording with Christa Ludwig, Elizabeth Schwarzkopf, Nicolai Gedda, Walter Berry, and Gundula Janowitz, which is the standard by which all others are measured. Jacobs' singers, however are perfectly suited to their roles... and to his manner of performance. Daniel Behle's Tamino has a beautiful, aristocratic tenor. Daniel Schmutzhard has the ideal humorous intonation (and the perfect name ) needed to play Papageno. Marlis Peterson is a sweet and lovely voice to play Pamina... the love interest of the opera.

Of course the ultimate measure of any Magic Flute are the notoriously difficult arias of the Queen of the Night. Lucia Popp may forever own these as unrivaled in her lightness and fluidity:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ufeyarJxNQ

Although much must be said for Patricia Petibon's recent emotion-laden recording of the Queen of the Night's arias:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNKEGjLSDpo

The Magic Flute remains one of my most beloved operas... it is quite likely my first choice for as my personal favorite. It was the first opera I ever watched ... in a production from the Vienna State Opera broadcast a good many years ago. It was the first opera I ever took my wife to... with the spectacular and truly magical set and costume designs by Maurice Sendak:











Otto Klemperer's version has long been one of my favorite opera recordings... with perhaps the greatest collection of singers ever amassed for a single production... And now Rene Jacobs new recording stands as the crowning jewel to his historically informed performances of Mozart.

Highly Recommended!

[Musicology]

Yes, wonderful piece !!

I've been listening repeatedly to a London Symphony Orchestra recording Brahms Serenade No. 1 in D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlY-c...eature=related

Alexander Glazunov
Symphony No. 4
1st Movement

(Start)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoqDw29LgyI

[Emil Miller]

Yes, wonderful piece !!

It is amazing how the musical technique of Brahms in this early work can be so readily recognised in the mature works of the composer.
As a germanophile I consider Brahms to be a truly great representative of German music, especially in his acknowledgement of Bach.
I was delighted to find on Youtube this wonderful work based on student drinking songs and dedicated to academia, which was my first introduction to this piece. If the ending doesn't thrill, the listener is obviously missing something. Barbirolli, Brahms and the musicians of the New York Philharmonic show that if human beings are worth anything it's performances such as these that prove it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJk2dfheyVw